Your president has made your university look ridiculous

MonkeyBalls

It's old news that academia is a PC minefield that would subvert any thought crime.

But what is this crap?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-lukianoff/sex-fruit-bats-and-politi_b_576597.html

Cliff notes:
Lecturer Dylan Evans shows a paper to his colleague regarding fruit bats and their oral sex habits
Evans has been having an ongoing debate with the colleague regarding the influence of biology on human behaviour (which is obviously huge, but this fact is anathema to those cocooned from reality in the ivory tower)
His colleague's cognitive dissonance, offended fragile sensibilities, and slimy opportunism led him to complain to your president that he was upset by Evans and the peer-reviewed paper
Evans is now on "a two-year period of intensive monitoring and counselling" and as a result his application for tenure is likely to be denied.

Papa_Lazarou

MonkeyBalls wrote: »

It's old news that academia is a PC minefield that would subvert any thought crime.

But what is this crap?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-lukianoff/sex-fruit-bats-and-politi_b_576597.html

Cliff notes:
Lecturer Dylan Evans shows a paper to his colleague regarding fruit bats and their oral sex habits
Evans has been having an ongoing debate with the colleague regarding the influence of biology on human behaviour (which is obviously huge, but this fact is anathema to those cocooned from reality in the ivory tower)
His colleague's cognitive dissonance, offended fragile sensibilities, and slimy opportunism led him to complain to your president that he was upset by Evans and the peer-reviewed paper
Evans is now on "a two-year period of intensive monitoring and counselling" and as a result his application for tenure is likely to be denied.

I've a feeling there is a lot more to that story that's being told. While i ain't the biggest fan of the UCC president i don't think it would be even legal in the first place to fire someone for sharing a peer reviewed article. If he feels so wrong done by has he went to the labour relations court or brought a case for unfairly being fired? I dunno but it just doesn't feel like the full story.

langdang

Dr. Evans gave one of the UCC Science series lectures, next thing he's in the sh 1t for a having a giggle at a strange paper and passing it on for others to laugh at? Hmmm, strange indeed! More to this, or university politics gone completely bonkers...

rebel girl 15

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

I've a feeling there is a lot more to that story that's being told. While i ain't the biggest fan of the UCC president i don't think it would be even legal in the first place to fire someone for sharing a peer reviewed article. If he feels so wrong done by has he went to the labour relations court or brought a case for unfairly being fired? I dunno but it just doesn't feel like the full story.

I'd say you are right - that really doesn't seem a fireable offence! Unless the person in question had previous wrongdoings that were not documented here. People are very quickly to go to the courts when they feel like they are wronged, so I'm wondering why he didn't bring a case for unfair dismissal.

IIRC, people can be fired on the spot for severe breaches of contract, but otherwise should get a verbal warning for their first offence, a written warning for the second offence and then the door for their third one

SuperInfinity

It's true, our university is a disgrace. The people in charge are complete morons who couldn't organize a prayer session in a convent.

I'm beginning to think that John Murphy was right about everything, the whole university is a joke.

Nova_era

Has anyone ever seen Dylan Evans and John Murphy in the same place?

rebel girl 15

Nova_era wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen Dylan Evans and John Murphy in the same place?

That was something that crossed my mind when I read it as well!

flynny51

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I'd say you are right - that really doesn't seem a fireable offence! Unless the person in question had previous wrongdoings that were not documented here. People are very quickly to go to the courts when they feel like they are wronged, so I'm wondering why he didn't bring a case for unfair dismissal.

Had ye read the article ye'd know he wasn't fired

Professor Murphy has imposed a two-year period of intensive monitoring and counselling on me, and as a result my application for tenure is likely to be denied.

rebel girl 15

flynny51 wrote: »

Had ye read the article ye'd know he wasn't fired

Not fired, but as good as if he is refused tenure - afaik they work on contract until tenure, so if they don't earn tenure after a certain time such as three years, then they are let go

PhatPiggins

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Not fired, but as good as if he is refused tenure - afaik they work on contract until tenure, so if they don't earn tenure after a certain time such as three years, then they are let go

Contract not being renewd is nothing like being fired.

rebel girl 15

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Contract not being renewd is nothing like being fired.

Fair enough but either way he is out of a job - not making tenure in the required time doesn't look good on the CV

Sid_Justice

Who wants to bet that the outraged colleague who reported him was a woman?

PhatPiggins

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Fair enough but either way he is out of a job - not making tenure in the required time doesn't look good on the CV

It surely does not. Especially in such a claustrophobic intudstry as university lectureship.

KnifeWRENCH

SuperInfinity wrote: »

It's true, our university is a disgrace. The people in charge are complete morons who couldn't organize a prayer session in a convent.

I'm beginning to think that John Murphy was right about everything, the whole university is a joke.

:rolleyes: Nothing disgraceful or jo0key about the departments in charge of my course. Sure, this story is absolutely ridiculous but don't tarnish the entire place over it.

samf

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Who wants to bet that the outraged colleague who reported him was a woman?

Apparently it was...

samf

You can read most of the correspondence online - makes very interesting reading.

SuperInfinity

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... the UCC administration and management is a load of crackpot nonsense.

I wouldn't trust them to be in charge of a common household plant, never mind a university.

captainspeckle

The president is really not having a good year PR wise now is he?

samf

This story is really starting to get out in the media, it was on newstalk and Pat kenny on Radio 1 this morning, and theres an article in the independent on it - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lecturer-fights-sanctions-after-showing-colleague-batsex-article-2182555.html

KnifeWRENCH

If nothing else, at least one good thing has come out of this: this rather epic Facebook page!

D'Agger

What a crock of sh1t! - It was an article ffs would you really get so offended by it that you'd officially complain a colleague? I know she'd reported him before according to the indo article, and there may be more to it than meets the eye but that's ridiculous imo

Papa_Lazarou

This thing just keeps getting weirder and weirder...whats going on with uCC nowadays

Well the college has released some official jargon about the whole thing but don't mention any bat fellatio directly.

Statement from University College Cork
17.05.2010
University College Cork views with the utmost gravity the fact that confidential documentation concerning an internal allegation of sexual harassment, including the report of a formal investigation, conducted by experienced senior external investigators, was posted to various social media platforms, in contravention of University policy and well-established procedure.
It is imperative, in the interests of fairness to all sides involved, and for such procedures to work effectively, that the University and the parties to procedures of this nature, maintain the confidentiality that governs them. Failure to do so, impinges on the rights of staff who feel it necessary to lodge a complaint against a fellow staff member. The rights of staff who may wish to take similar action in future or defend themselves against such allegations, would also be affected, were confidentiality to be broken in such a manner. There are, therefore, serious consequences for the University and for its policy on Duty of Respect and Right to Dignity in the workplace. The University has a duty of care to both parties in a dispute and well established policies and procedures that are fully compliant with Irish law and supported and approved by the Governing Body of the University. In the interests of upholding the principle of confidentiality and in fairness to both sides, the University feels it would not be appropriate to comment further.

http://www.ucc.ie/en/mandc/news/fullstory,100753,en.html

Nova_era

That statement would seem to be typical of UCC's attitude recently. It's basically a refusal on the University's part to answer any questions, or to allow any transparency in relation to the ridiculous action taken against this staff member.

Dudess

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Who wants to bet that the outraged colleague who reported him was a woman?

Insofar as that's of relevance of course...

ardmacha

Who wants to bet that the outraged colleague who reported him was a woman?

Perhaps she was an old bat.

D-Generate

As an isolated incident then it does look unusual that this escalated so far in regards to a peer reviewed paper. However none of us really know the full details and since UCC is not really commenting, the only details that are emerging are those which Dylan Evans has chosen to publish.
Maybe he was harassing her, maybe he was not. Regardless of such, it still needs to be investigated.

On a side note, I think him showing around an article (to a dozen people?) about bats having oral sex was not to promote an intellectual discussion and was more so to have a laugh. A bit immature in my opinion.

kangaroo

From: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Dylan-Evans/128412583835980

Website:http://www.dylan.org.uk
Mission: Dylan Evans is a lecturer in the School of Medicine at University College Cork.

In May 2010, it became publically known that Evans was to be sanctioned by the University and subjected to a lengthy period of counselling over allegations of sexual harassment, despite having been exonerated by an independent investigation.

His "crime" was to show a colleague an article from the peer-reviewed scientific journal PLoS ONE about the sexual behaviour of fruitbats.

This is a damning indictment of UCC's attitude towards academic freedom. Please support Dylan Evans by signing the petition at: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/freedebate/

Read the correspondence between Dylan Evans and UCC: http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/

pirateninja

So far it's made it to the UK/Irish Times, the Examiner, the Telegraph, Huffpost and at least two science journals and the list goes on. We're officially a laughing stock.

dogbert27

Add to that the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1279338/Dr-Dylan-Evans-harassment-claim-showing-sex-life-bats-paper-female-colleague.html

It show her complaint too:

"'Since he arrived at the school last year, Dr Evans has often come to my office, generally early in the morning and always uninvited, to talk mainly about himself.
'On many occasions he used unwelcome patting, hugging, kissing on the cheeks and touching behaviour with me; he also used to make compliments on my beauty or the way I was dressed.

'I told him that I do not appreciate compliments as they do not mean anything to me.
'I have been tolerant and given him the benefit of the doubt, but am no longer willing to excuse his behaviour.

'These events are causing me great distress and have made the workplace unpleasant for me"

So after all this it was a paper on bats that pushed her over the edge.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

There's also no independent witness to him going to her office and having "physical contact". So it's her word against his at the moment.

Byron85

The plot thickens:

apparently the woman in qustion sent evans seven e-mails asking him out on a date on the same day this incident took place. He declined her offer. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned it seems

Just got told that on another forum. It seems Dr Evans still has the emails she sent him asking him out.

Piste

This case is apalling. Especially her complaint, saying that he often raises issues of a sexual nature. He's a Behavioural Scientist ffs, it's part of what he does! She then goes on to highlight innocuous situations that most people would be fine with but she found uncomfortable, but doesn't say that she confronted him at all to tell him that he made her uncomfortable. Talk about passive-agressive.

samf

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

It seems Dr Evans still has the emails she sent him asking him out.

Here's one of them - http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/bat_sex_is_not_protected_by_ac.php#comment-2515747

Byron85

samf wrote: »

Here's one of them - http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/bat_sex_is_not_protected_by_ac.php#comment-2515747

This is like an episode of Murder she Wrote.

norrie rugger

Outstanding

Nova_era

I hope UCC get's its head handed to it on a plate over this. There is no way that Murphy should get away with this kind of rubbish.

With the e-mails there now, it's obvious that this woman is a ****ing idiot, and has been lying. If these sanctions are still taken against Evans even with the existence of the e-mails, then it is a SERIOUS injustice.

It seems that national press is really taking an interest though, and it's coming up on other national forums. I must check if there are other threads on boards about this, because if there isn't, I'll be happy to post one.

norrie rugger

Nova_era wrote: »

I hope UCC get's its head handed to it on a plate over this. There is no way that Murphy should get away with this kind of rubbish.

With the e-mails there now, it's obvious that this woman is a ****ing idiot, and has been lying. If these sanctions are still taken against Evans even with the existence of the e-mails, then it is a SERIOUS injustice.

It seems that national press is really taking an interest though, and it's coming up on other national forums. I must check if there are other threads on boards about this, because if there isn't, I'll be happy to post one.

Off to After Hours FTW

z0oT

The Independent name the complainant:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/woman-in-batsex-row-is-expert-nutritionist-2183499.html

Nova_era

Who's coming to her office to throw things?

As a sidenote, how long will it be before UCC and the powers that be decide that the free speech being utilised on this forum is unsuitable, and they order the thread to be closed?

samf

As a sidenote, how long will it be before UCC and the powers that be decide that the free speech being utilised on this forum is unsuitable, and they order the thread to be closed?

They'll have trouble, its on bb.ucc.ie, boards.ie, politics.ie aswell as endless blogs im sure. I'd say theyre just waiting for all the fuss to go away, but with the staggered release of emails etc it looks to do the opposite, its making headlines all over the world.

Nova_era

The plot thickens -

married to Professor Peter Kennedy, vice president of research at UCC.

I wonder does that have any bearing on the harsh way in which Evans was dealt?

samf

Nova_era wrote: »

I wonder does that have any bearing on the harsh way in which Evans was dealt?

it does if you believe this -
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/bat_sex_is_not_protected_by_ac.php#comment-2515852

Also - the newly released emails may be telling - http://felidware.com/DylanEvans/email.html

Nova_era

Are UCC likely to reverse their decision to make no further comments on the matter in the light of the new revelations?

Her husbands position greatly introduces the whisper of corruption within UCC.

Also, I notice on her UCC biography -

She is leading a medical education project on “real patients as teachers”, which has been awarded a UCC “President’s Award for Research in Innovative Forms of Teaching & Learning in Higher Education”

Fascinating really.

PopUp

samf wrote: »

Here's one of them - http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/bat_sex_is_not_protected_by_ac.php#comment-2515747

She's not asking him out in that email, she's letting him know about a Departmental party. Yeah her tone is friendly but I don't see how a friendly email ten months before she complains to HR makes her a liar.

Are there other emails where she comes on to him?

samf

PopUp wrote: »

She's not asking him out in that email, she's letting him know about a Departmental party. Yeah her tone is friendly but I don't see how a friendly email ten months before she complains to HR makes her a liar.

Are there other emails where she comes on to him?

I dont believe Dr. Evans ever said that she came onto him, i'd say thats just the result of word of mouth getting the story wrong after reading the above linked email. It does however show (if genuine) that she, at the time anyway, did not feel harassed by Dr.Evans and it does make the claim in her evidence that her and her husband "declined all further invitations from" him seem unlikely.

PopUp

samf wrote: »

I dont believe Dr. Evans ever said that she came onto him, i'd say thats just the result of word of mouth getting the story wrong after reading the above linked email. It does however show (if genuine) that she, at the time anyway, did not feel harassed by Dr.Evans and it does make the claim in her evidence that her and her husband "declined all further invitations from" him seem unlikely.

Agreed. It's just that TWH Byron said she asked him out. I've heard the rumour elsewhere too - that this was some kind of spurned lover thing. I'm just curious if that email's all the rumour's based on.

Nova_era

I hope this woman is shown the door.

Censorsh!t

Her and her husband (vice president of research) have apparently quit.

samf

Most likely unrelated to the incident though.

She was actually already in the process of applying for jobs at other universities when I showed her the paper. She has since obtained a job at a university in another country and quit her job at UCC.

Her husband is also leaving UCC, to accompany her to her new destination abroad.

Dylan Evans

Nova_era

samf wrote: »

Most likely unrelated to the incident though.

I'd find that hard to believe however. Her husband held quite an important position in the University, and at a time when UCC are ranting and raving about how much research grants they get, and how important their research is, it sounds strange for him to leave his post.

seandoiler

kennedy's term as vp for research is coming to an end...no need for him to hang around when he's being replaced

Nova_era

That makes sense then.

However, we need not to forget the real problem behind all this. The treatment of Dylan Evans.