SSFIV Tier List

UberPrinny_Baal

Omigawd DeeJay is 6:4 against Cammy, imma beat Cobelcog at the next inferno! The tier list has decreed it so!

Seriously though, I was just interested in the numbers.



Terry can probably correct me on my maths, but if you assume this tier list is correct (which as a first tier list is very unlikely) and you take the differences between top and bottom tier, and divide by the number of characters; it looks like, on average the difference between characters is smaller in Super than in vanilla, making it a more balanced game?

EDIT: Someone in the Eventhubs comments pointed out that a lot of the vanilla characters moving up and down was due to their matchups versus the new characters, and worked out the numbers if you take out the new match-ups. I thought this was kind of interesting

Chun Li- 132
Guile- 131
Bison, Balrog- 130
Seth- 128
Abel- 127
Honda, Cammy- 126
Ryu- 124
Rufus, Dhalsim, Sagat- 123
Akuma, Fei Long- 122
Blanka- 121
Ken- 120
Rose, Zangeif- 118
Viper- 117
Vega- 116
El Fuerte'- 114
Gouken- 108
Sakura- 105
Gen- 99

Doom and Orim are the new tier whores :O

animaX

i have carefully checked your mathematics and your results are correct (though your hypotheses may not be )

Sisko

What are you doing playing fighting games terry you should be off solving murders and working with the FBI and shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G8x9EfHtpI

UberPrinny_Baal

animaX wrote: »

i have carefully checked your mathematics and your results are correct (though your hypotheses may not be )

I think I can get away with drawing a shaky hypotheses on theoretical numbers that are going to be greatly subject to change. I see what you say though.

I will admit taking the biggest and smallest, and just getting the average of the difference was a pretty lazy way to go about it. A game could be well balanced on average but still have a few characters at top tier that irrevocably break it.

GorySnake

I think this game is fairly balanced considering the roster size and in spite of the math. Even Hakan has got some dirty tricks that I've been looking into (will never play as him at an Inferno though). Im thinking right now, by the looks of things, Makoto is the only truly terrible character with her poor wakeup options and what looks like bad footsies, even though her c.mp mirrors Fei's which is great, Makoto's seems to get stuffed pretty easily.

D4RK ONION

GorySnake wrote: »

I think this game is fairly balanced considering the roster size and in spite of the math. Even Hakan has got some dirty tricks that I've been looking into (will never play as him at an Inferno though). Im thinking right now, by the looks of things, Makoto is the only truly terrible character with her poor wakeup options and what looks like bad footsies, even though her c.mp mirrors Fei's which is great, Makoto's seems to get stuffed pretty easily.

Her wake up options aren't too awful. EX. Overhead is invincible, super (which builds up quick) has invincibility frames. Her backdash gets you out of most things, and you can lp. fukiage most cross-ups on wake up. Even on trade you get 250 damage with the follow up. Finally, if you pick super two, it's a nice little get out if you really need to. Much like your Hakan, she's got some aces up her sleeves but I'd never take her out outside casuals.

GorySnake

I've seen Makoto get grabbed out of her EX Otoshi, 18f startup and -4 on block, Im not sure how much pushback it does though. 18f is really slow, very easy to safejump.

Sagat06

Kirby you top tier whore



taken from here

GorySnake

Cody going down
Honda still up there

animaX

GorySnake wrote: »

Honda still up there

Course he is, sure why else would the likes of A-trak and dark onion use him!

J0hnick

Gotta disagree with that list, I main Guy but I used to use Deejay, Deejay's a solid mid but Guy's king of the low tiers.

Also, that list is supposed to be a ratio of how popular a character is versus how often they win, if so why are Ryu and Ken so far apart ? (I realize Ryu's still better then Ken but the gap isn't as big as it was in vanilla).

GorySnake

It counts tournament wins, you dont see that many Kens or Dee Jays winning in tournaments.

K.O.Kiki

J0hnick wrote: »

Gotta disagree with that list, I main Guy but I used to use Deejay, Deejay's a solid mid but Guy's king of the low tiers.

Also, that list is supposed to be a ratio of how popular a character is versus how often they win, if so why are Ryu and Ken so far apart ? (I realize Ryu's still better then Ken but the gap isn't as big as it was in vanilla).

You can't "disagree" with this list, it's a statistical representation of who's winning & losing in the 5000 matches analysed.

J0hnick

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

You can't "disagree" with this list

I just did

Placebo

J0hnick wrote: »

I just did

lol you can disagree with facts
thats like saying 9/11 didnt happened [extreme example]

however statistics for a 'game' of this nature are not applicable all the time.
i.e kuroda Q in sf3

J0hnick

Placebo wrote: »

lol you can disagree with facts
thats like saying 9/11 didnt happened [extreme example]

however statistics for a 'game' of this nature are not applicable all the time.
i.e kuroda Q in sf3

Agreed, Kuroda's Q is a great example, his Sean's not bad either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWLu09_m03Q

But just because a characters unpopular doesn't mean there always bad, look at Elena in 3s, shes better then Alex but nowhere near as popular because she's "Chun Li light" (as in why would you bother picking her when Chun has everything she has and more ?).

GorySnake

A single great player using a bad character doesnt make that character good.

Doctor DooM

It's just a tier list anyway.

Orim

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It's just a tier list anyway.

Tier Lists are important rabble rabble rabble

Placebo

they are for terry

Dreddybajs

I don't think some of guys realise how ridiculously ahead of every other 3rd strike player Kuroda is.

Kuroda is literally able to walk into Mikado during pre-SBO training season, sit down at a cab, and rack up a 100+ win streak using random character and random super every game against SBO-quality opponents (this actually happened).

Using him as an example doesn't invalidate anything to do with tier lists, he's just on a completely different level to every other player.

Orim

^^ True this.

Can't remember who said it (think it was Ino but may be wrong) but one of the top jap 3s players said that Kuroda understands 3s at 100%, MOV is at 7% and every other top player is at 2%.

Bad paraphrase but it conveys how far up the tree he is. In reality the 3s tier list should start with Kuroda and then go to Chun etc.

Placebo

FFS ok then lets use chris as an example
his tier is at 7 and hes won inferno 4 times in a row

GorySnake

That list is made from 5000 matches. Even 4 Inferno's is small compared to that amount. 7th is still pretty high, and I doubt Inferno matches were taken into account when making that list. Cant even call it a tier list because it isnt. Its what Kiki said it is, a statistical representation of how characters are doing in tournaments. It is fact.

J0hnick wrote: »

Gotta disagree with that list

Disagreeing with this list is like saying 2+2 does not equal 4

Placebo

im defo not disagreeing with it, its stats as i said above but i would not select a char based on that, or expect a win easily when coming up against a low tier char

GorySnake

I was referring to an earlier post by someone else, I should have been clearer sorry.

This list is more of an interesting look at the current scene. I didnt pick up Honda as an alt because he's top of this and the current tier list. I chose him because I think he might be a good choice to back up some of Cody's bad matchups.

PPC

GorySnake wrote: »

and I doubt Inferno matches were taken into account when making that list.

I sent GYT a link to our media page, so Inferno's may be included

Sagat06

You are all top tier whores!!

Doctor DooM

Sagat06 wrote: »

You are all top tier whores!!

I did better when I was bottom tier

Misty Chaos

Sagat06 wrote: »

You are all top tier whores!!

Meh, don't really care too much about the tier list this time round, though its nice to see Juri went up one spot. I'm learning that its really the player that makes the difference, not some tier list ( especially after last Saturday. )