EMINEM-THE ULTIMATE

denballs

i believe that eminem is the greatest rap artist of all time.......and not just that but that he has the most poetic ability of any poet that has ever lived

please give your opinions

and if your opinions are based on his last album please do get the i am marshal album........i know its not out for a while but i have it and if i have it im sure its on youtube........i know one song definitly is called im not afraid

Mindkiller

I respectfully disagree.

Kold

I would also disagree. 2 decent albums that haven't aged too well and a few stinkers does not 'The greatest rap artist of all time' make.

MickShamrock

Vanilla Ice. /End of thread.

Cypher_sounds

''There is this guy Eminem. He has created a sense of what is possible. He has sent a voltage around a generation. He has done this not just through his subversive attitude but also his verbal energy'' - Seamus Heaney

I listen to Eminem because he is a realist and speaks his mind, his honesty and truthfulness seperates him from most others

storm2811

He should've stopped after The Marshall Mathers LP..

Think about it,it's all gone downhill from there,imo anyway.

DarkJager

Best rapper of all time? No way. You obviously haven't heard of this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb9yvxmg7ik

ricero

my favorite is dr dre think he has the best voice in rap followed by biggie

D'Agger

Jay-Z - I've listened to my fair share of rap and none of them can bring to the party what this man does. His lyrics are so polished, he's just different class imo

DarkJager

PaulieC wrote: »

Jay-Z - I've listened to my fair share of rap and none of them can bring to the party what this man does. His lyrics are so polished, he's just different class imo

Could you suggest any of his older stuff worth listening to? I thought his recent "New York" song was a pile of ****, and I've never really considered him as reaching the depth of the lyrics that 2Pac had. Has he got any songs with a message in them or is it all just talk about his money?

D'Agger

DarkJager wrote: »

Could you suggest any of his older stuff worth listening to? I thought his recent "New York" song was a pile of ****, and I've never really considered him as reaching the depth of the lyrics that 2Pac had. Has he got any songs with a message in them or is it all just talk about his money?

The American gangster album he did is brilliant lyrically imo, The Chapter One album is decent & Reasonable Doubt is alright too.

If you can get your hands on it - there was a BBC documentary done on him last year that was very good imo

Jimmy Iovine

DarkJager wrote: »

Could you suggest any of his older stuff worth listening to? I thought his recent "New York" song was a pile of ****, and I've never really considered him as reaching the depth of the lyrics that 2Pac had. Has he got any songs with a message in them or is it all just talk about his money?

Reasonable Doubt his debut album. He talks about hustling and what not, but it's still an absolute classic. Another is the first in the Blueprint series. He's supposed to have made it in a couple of days. Introduced the world to Kanye West the producer among other things.

As for 2Pac, I never really liked him. Sure he has some good meanings behind the lyrics but he lacks in the delivery department. In my opinion he wouldn't hold a candle to someone like Rakim or Nas.

If you're looking for a fantastic rapper look up The D.O.C. on youtube. Unfortunately he tore his vocal cords after releasing his debut album but he's ghostwritten for Dr. Dre over the years. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

Ardennes1944

i agree with you all the way. people say he went downhill ages ago, he takes the piss in alot of his songs so its hard to show how good you are then but on the other side songs like beautiful,same song and dance and deja vu from his last album, and his new single not afraid, just inspire me to do better in life like. goosebumps material. he's music is like a legal high so maybe he'd want to watch it here:cool:

DarkJager

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Reasonable Doubt his debut album. He talks about hustling and what not, but it's still an absolute classic. Another is the first in the Blueprint series. He's supposed to have made it in a couple of days. Introduced the world to Kanye West the producer among other things.

As for 2Pac, I never really liked him. Sure he has some good meanings behind the lyrics but he lacks in the delivery department. In my opinion he wouldn't hold a candle to someone like Rakim or Nas.

If you're looking for a fantastic rapper look up The D.O.C. on youtube. Unfortunately he tore his vocal cords after releasing his debut album but he's ghostwritten for Dr. Dre over the years. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

2Pac has been my favorite for many many years, the man is untouchable in my opinon from lyrical content to his delivery. Just listen to Hit Em Up and hear the venom in his voice. A genius of rap that has not been surpassed by anyone since.

Must look at somemore of Jay Z's stuff, although I'm not really keeping my hopes high. The guy seems more interested in the "look at me" style of rap than actually saying anything worthwhile.

denballs

jay z is an average black rapper........he only makes good music as he is a very good producer and has been fortunate financially...............

tupac is actually my favoueite rapper because his talent is raw ..........and his music was sculpterd by the events of his life........but he just lacks the ability of eminem

eminem raps from life experience unlike tupac who rapped about the average person where he lived {the drug dealer

---

gangster

---

mother----teenege pregnant girl

---

e.t.c}...............what it comes down to is simply vocal ability

---

good singers can sing and eminem can do things vocally that nobody has done or even tries to do.......most so called rappers talk and rhyme.....eminem raps.............if there was a college for learning rap technique eminem would be the professor

D'Agger

denballs wrote: »

jay z is an average black rapper........he only makes good music as he is a very good producer and has been fortunate financially...............

Absolute bóllix tbh!!
Jay-Z has been lucky financially?? - You're referrin to a man who had to sell craic cocaine after he became the man of the house aged 12 after his father walked out on his family. He worked his absolute hole off for a record contract - when he didn't get one he, along with some other budding talents like Damon Dash set up Roc-a-fella records and quite literally turned it into a dynasty.

There's a reason he's sold millions upon millions of albums and it's not because he's lucky.

good singers can sing and eminem can do things vocally that nobody has done or even tries to do.......most so called rappers talk and rhyme.....eminem raps

I really don't know what you're referring to - what does Eminem do that others haven't tried to do

Don't get me wrong - I think Eminem's unbelievably talented but to dismiss Jay-Z like you have is fúckin lunacy tbh

Jay-Zs rapping technique emphasises flow over content & delivery - the three main components of a rap song. Eminem's technique emphasises delivery but as far as I'm concerned it's much harder to master flow than delivery.

Jimmy Iovine

denballs wrote: »

jay z is an average black rapper........he only makes good music as he is a very good producer and has been fortunate financially...............

tupac is actually my favoueite rapper because his talent is raw ..........and his music was sculpterd by the events of his life........but he just lacks the ability of eminem

eminem raps from life experience unlike tupac who rapped about the average person where he lived {the drug dealer

---

gangster

---

mother----teenege pregnant girl

---

e.t.c}...............what it comes down to is simply vocal ability

---

good singers can sing and eminem can do things vocally that nobody has done or even tries to do.......most so called rappers talk and rhyme.....eminem raps.............if there was a college for learning rap technique eminem would be the professor

Sorry but what are you on about. Since when is Jay-Z a producer. He leaves that to other people. Never once heard of him producing a track for himself or anyone else.

What's the point in saying Tupac based his raps on his life experience then go on to contradict yourself two lines later. As for rapping about the average person where he's from, come on. I mean how many people even in the ghettos are born in jail and have parents that are known members of the Black Panthers.

I agree with you that Eminem is better but you have to get at least some points right before claiming this.

DarkJager

denballs wrote: »

jay z is an average black rapper........he only makes good music as he is a very good producer and has been fortunate financially...............

tupac is actually my favoueite rapper because his talent is raw ..........and his music was sculpterd by the events of his life........but he just lacks the ability of eminem

eminem raps from life experience unlike tupac who rapped about the average person where he lived {the drug dealer

---

gangster

---

mother----teenege pregnant girl

---

e.t.c}...............what it comes down to is simply vocal ability

---

good singers can sing and eminem can do things vocally that nobody has done or even tries to do.......most so called rappers talk and rhyme.....eminem raps.............if there was a college for learning rap technique eminem would be the professor

Is that not the same as life experience though? 2Pac was deep. I find eminem can touch on a decent lyric sometimes but more often than not you just can't relate to him. Pac liked to dig a little deeper in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl54ABY8VgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjv7hEAytU

(The lyrics in this are still as relevant today as when he wrote them, one of the best rap tunes ever)

Kold

Rap is so diverse that looking for a best lyricist will prove a fruitless affair.

Amongst the top tier I'd put Nas, Talib, MF DOOM, Del, Big L, GZA, Kool Keith and Rakim though. Eminem wouldn't cut it compared to these guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEwSfbE9IXc

PrettyBoy

denballs wrote: »

jay z is an average black rapper........he only makes good music as he is a very good producer and has been fortunate financially...............

tupac ... lacks the ability of eminem

eminem raps from life experience unlike tupac...good singers can sing and eminem can do things vocally that nobody has done or even tries to do...if there was a college for learning rap technique eminem would be the professor

Mate, nothing against you, I'm a big fan of Eminem myself but your whole argument is fucking ridiculous and now I can't take you seriously. He's great and his rapping abilities are seriously impressive but he's not the best. His best album, IMO, was The Slim Shady LP, MM LP was good but it didn't blow me away like his first album did. Few good tracks on The Eminem Show but everything after that was absolute trash.

There is no definitive "best rapper ever", everyone has their own opinions and their own tastes. My favorite is 2pac, he's the reason I became interested in rap music and in times like these when decent rappers are few and far between I can't help but be thankful that I'll always have all of 2pac's albums in my iPod to remind me how good rap was like at one point. There will never be anyone like him ever again. I could listen to nothing but 2pac for the rest of my life and be happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgg8OZLfeSM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARVmXdHot_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ongKxiCNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAdSvxi0FiI

horsebox09

Eminem is one of my favorite rappers ever, but I can't say he's the best.
In terms of pure talent, I'd only put Andre 3000, Kool G Rap, Pharoahe Monch and the late Big L in the same sentence as him, but he has released too much crap to be considered the best.

Saying that, people who said he fell off after the Marshall Mathers LP are clueless: Sing for the Moment, Till I Collapse, Rabbit Run and Lose Yourself are arguably his best work, and then you have 8 Mile Road, Stimulate, etc-I'd actually say he peaked AFTER the MMLP.

If you put his best work up against any other emcee, I think he is better than most, he has released some disastrous stuff, but so have most rappers.

Easiest way I can put it is, if I was to name who I feel are the 10 best rappers ever, Eminem would easily be in there, he wouldn't be 1st though.

Kold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ullE__w9ris

This is Eminem at his peak tbh. When he was witty and funny.

lordgoat

Rakim for me. Fond of PE too...

Executive Steve

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

''There is this guy Eminem. He has created a sense of what is possible. He has sent a voltage around a generation. He has done this not just through his subversive attitude but also his verbal energy'' - Seamus Heaney

I listen to Eminem because he is a realist and speaks his mind, his honesty and truthfulness seperates him from most others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0KpWMNxnM

Eminem couldn't write a verse that holds a candle to the RA The Rugged Man verse on this one. (it's the second verse, starts with "True story:" )

Executive Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz49lnnzJak

..and I never heard an Eminem song that I could relate to even a tenth as much as I can relate to this... (takes about 34 seconds to start)


People who start threads on forums about how Eminem is the greatest, is the only one "who speaks his mind" or "tells it like it is" are, 99% of the time, people who have only properly listened to an extraordinarily limited spectrum of the vast pantheon of rappers there actually are out there. They also - and there's absolutely no disrespect intended here by the way - tend to only have a rather limited knowledge of the sort of things that these other rappers tend to go on about.

I've been listening to Hip Hop for nigh-on 20 years, and I know bugger all about it, compared to the heads who are mods over on the Hip Hop board here anyway, and I only speak three languages well enough to be able to really "get" what any given rapper is talking about. There's a VAST sea of hip hop out there, OCEANS of it, you'd NEVER hear it all, even keeping track of English language releases in any given month is a Herculean task... How odd would it be if the chap on constant MTV rotation was the absolute pinnacle of all that was possible with the idiom?

Essentially, making this thread is sort of like going on the literature forum and saying that The DaVinci Code is the pinnacle of global literature because you've only read a dozen books and half of the rest were Harry Potter.

One thing I WILL absolutely and wholeheartedly defend Eminem for is that yes, he's a HIGHLY technical vocalist - at the same time, you could offer me a wheelbarrow full of Joe Satriani albums and I wouldn't trade it for a chewed up Hendrix tape.

Executive Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFO7zd5ag-g

^ There's more genuine emotional insight in the second verse of that tune than there is in Eminem's entire back catalogue.

(although the sample is cheesy as hell, I freely admit)

MrStuffins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpaonSDPw7Y

....... tbh

Executive Steve

MrStuffins wrote: »

....... tbh

Nice try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVjmr4pBlcQ

^ These guys have the night time economy on SMASH

MrStuffins

Executive Steve wrote: »

Nice try.

I wasnt trying, it's DOOM for me.

Executive Steve

Fair enough! I think the last American MC I will always go out of my way to check is probably Ghost, and maybe Nas as well (although he'll obviously never do an album as AMAZING as his first one, and he's always going to be somewhat unfairly judged against it.

DOOM is someone I've always had a complete blindspot about, embarrasingly enough (although it certainly proves my point further up this thread!!!). Where's a good place to start?

Executive Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKYkDwzi-FI

^ this is just pure 100% unadulterated swagger

The kid was 19 at the time, salute!

Kold

Executive Steve wrote: »

Fair enough! I think the last American MC I will always go out of my way to check is probably Ghost, and maybe Nas as well (although he'll obviously never do an album as AMAZING as his first one, and he's always going to be somewhat unfairly judged against it.

DOOM is someone I've always had a complete blindspot about, embarrasingly enough (although it certainly proves my point further up this thread!!!). Where's a good place to start?

Madvillainy would be one of the best hip hop albums ever imo. Vaudeville Villain, MM FOOD? and Dangerdoom are all fantastic though. The King Gheedora stuff is also good. Bleh just start at the beginning and make your way through. I thought Born Like This was pretty poor though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNCzOH3jx3o

Prob not a great example as Mr Fantastik murders him on this track but it's just so nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewc1hixzYPY

MrStuffins

Executive Steve wrote: »

Fair enough! I think the last American MC I will always go out of my way to check is probably Ghost, and maybe Nas as well (although he'll obviously never do an album as AMAZING as his first one, and he's always going to be somewhat unfairly judged against it.

DOOM is someone I've always had a complete blindspot about, embarrasingly enough (although it certainly proves my point further up this thread!!!). Where's a good place to start?

He has SO MUCH stuff out there that its so tough to find a good place to start, but i'd recommend maybe grabbing Madvilliany by Madvillian and discover more from there.

(ps...... despite how he sounds, he's actually British)

denballs

okyou either just simply misunderstood me or i failed to explain myself.........im not saying eminem makes the best songs after he spends months writing and weeks producing them........im saying he has the most vocal ability combined with phenominal ability to write or just think up rhymes.............because he,s intelligent.............he,s actually in the top 90% intelligence rating in north america {iq testing}..............tupac was also intelligent,,,,,,,,he read makaveli and other non mainstream titlkes which talk about life and human emotion..............he was a scholar of human perception of strength.......{he read the art of war 47 times in his life and could quote it like the pope would quote the bible}............

for those who say jay z has more vocal ability than eminem and more rhyme structuring capabilities......then why cant he freestyle.............he lost to dmx and barely even rhymed after 3 months preparing for the battle.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg3hS4Ox2Oo

and dont say eminem cant freestyle cause he came 2nd in the 1997 rap olympics and is as good as he is portrayed as in 8 mile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB8OBmu7Org

D'Agger

denballs wrote: »

for those who say jay z has more vocal ability than eminem and more rhyme structuring capabilities......then why cant he freestyle.............he lost to dmx and barely even rhymed after 3 months preparing for the battle

Prove this with a link please because from what I've read about that 'battle' is that it wasn't a battle - just two rappers freestyling - no 3month preparations from either.

I said Jay-Z has more structure to his rhyming than Eminem - referring to the tracks he produces not freestyling - Eminem is a king at freestyling. And to say Jay-Z can't freestyle is ridiculous - he's known for freestyling to try and secure a record contract which he didn't in the end.

What I took issue with was your calling him "an average black rapper" - what are you basing this on - his weakness at freestyling? Referring to rap music I've listened to I believe Jay-Z is the best.

and dont say eminem cant freestyle cause he came 2nd in the 1997 rap olympics and is as good as he is portrayed as in 8 mile

What would make you think people would go against this? Eminems outstanding at freestyling. Who'd he come 2nd to though because they'd want to be brilliant

denballs

[QUOTE=Who'd he come 2nd to though because they'd want to be brilliant[/QUOTE]
he was beaten by juice ...........
Terry Parker, better known by his stage name MC Juice or simply Juice, is an American freestyle rapper from Chicago, United States. He beat Eminem at Scribble Jam [rap olympics] in 1997.[1][2] He was regarded in 2004 as one of finest freestyle rappers ever produced by Chicago.[3] By 2007, he had a six-piece live band called, "Juice and the Machine", who released a DVD, Juice And The Machine: Live At The Party, of their first live performance.[1][4]
He was born in California and came to Chicago after high school. Known for also battling undefeated until squaring off with Supernatural, a freestyle pioneer. Solidifying his improvisational credentials on The Wake Up Show


and what i meant was that jay z is just another rapper rapping about drugs guns and bitches........he,s nothing original or special.......biiggies special cause of his flow........tupac cause of his lyrics and aggressive deliverence............eminem because hes simple a master......

D'Agger

denballs wrote: »

and what i meant was that jay z is just another rapper rapping about drugs guns and bitches........he,s nothing original or special

Strongly disagree!! It's your opinion and I'm not gona try change it but imo, Jay-Z's flow is phenomenal, if anything he goes on about the dynasty he created and his wealth - guns and bitches isn't exactly what he goes on about on a constant basis.

He's original in the beats he uses for his songs - like his most recent song 'Onto the next one' - the beat behind that's original and works very well. He's far from just 'another rapper' imo and I'd be fairly certain alot of people, who mightn't even be his biggest fans would agree with me on that

denballs

PaulieC wrote: »

Strongly disagree!! It's your opinion and I'm not gona try change it but imo, Jay-Z's flow is phenomenal, if anything he goes on about the dynasty he created and his wealth - guns and bitches isn't exactly what he goes on about on a constant basis.

He's original in the beats he uses for his songs - like his most recent song 'Onto the next one' - the beat behind that's original and works very well. He's far from just 'another rapper' imo and I'd be fairly certain alot of people, who mightn't even be his biggest fans would agree with me on that

peoples opinions on him are mainly based on the hype he promoted himself..........if he was un heard of and you found him on youtube you wouldnt give him a secon d listen...............can you honestly say that you would allways recognise him if you were given 100 rap songs youve never heard with him in 10 of them.............iknow i would recognise eminem


and i wont give you any more opinions ill just give you fact........eminem and jay z have the same amount of vma awards {10}.........but jay-z had other rappers/singers in his.......eminem did the majority of his 10 solo....

Eminem has eleven Grammy Awards. He has been praised for having "verbal energy", high quality of lyricism and has been ranked at number nine on MTV's list of The Greatest MCs of All Time,[135][136] In 2003 he was listed as number thirteen on MTV's 22 Greatest Voices in Music[137] and number 82 on Rolling Stone's "The Immortals".[138] In 2008, the readers of Vibe Magazine voted him "The Best Rapper Alive".[139] He was also named "Best Rapper Ever" taking down all opponents very easily in a poll which was conducted by music fans on the Vibe website.
Ironically, "The Real Slim Shady", one of the songs from his first Grammy-winning album, The Marshall Mathers LP, slammed the Grammy Awards in its second verse, and stated the opinion that negative feelings about his material would keep him from ever winning one.


jay z has 10 grammy awards....has not been voted number one as a rapper or artist except as the nickelodeon kids choice singer of the year........

D'Agger

denballs wrote: »

peoples opinions on him are mainly based on the hype he promoted himself..........if he was un heard of and you found him on youtube you wouldnt give him a secon d listen...............can you honestly say that you would allways recognise him if you were given 100 rap songs youve never heard with him in 10 of them.............iknow i would recognise eminem

Honestly yes - Jay-Z has a vocal style just like many other rappers, so I believe I'd recognise him yes.

Also, who're you to say I wouldn't give him a second listen - you're not the ombudsman of musical taste tbf! I like his style, I prefer listening to some, not all of his work over Eminems

It's an opinion and not one formulated by how many awards he's won in comparison to other rappers, or what I read online about them. I listen to music, I formulate my own opinions on it - you're entitled to yours but don't go posting facts from Eminems wiki page/wherever you got those stats from about awards - at the end of the day they shouldn't impact on views on music imo

lordgoat

denballs wrote: »

peoples opinions on him are mainly based on the hype he promoted himself..........if he was un heard of and you found him on youtube you wouldnt give him a secon d listen...............can you honestly say that you would allways recognise him if you were given 100 rap songs youve never heard with him in 10 of them.............iknow i would recognise eminem


and i wont give you any more opinions ill just give you fact........eminem and jay z have the same amount of vma awards {10}.........but jay-z had other rappers/singers in his.......eminem did the majority of his 10 solo....

Eminem has eleven Grammy Awards. He has been praised for having "verbal energy", high quality of lyricism and has been ranked at number nine on MTV's list of The Greatest MCs of All Time,[135][136] In 2003 he was listed as number thirteen on MTV's 22 Greatest Voices in Music[137] and number 82 on Rolling Stone's "The Immortals".[138] In 2008, the readers of Vibe Magazine voted him "The Best Rapper Alive".[139] He was also named "Best Rapper Ever" taking down all opponents very easily in a poll which was conducted by music fans on the Vibe website.
Ironically, "The Real Slim Shady", one of the songs from his first Grammy-winning album, The Marshall Mathers LP, slammed the Grammy Awards in its second verse, and stated the opinion that negative feelings about his material would keep him from ever winning one.


jay z has 10 grammy awards....has not been voted number one as a rapper or artist except as the nickelodeon kids choice singer of the year........

Grammys? wtf? U2 have the most grammys ever for a band (i think). And they are ****e. Awards like this prove very little, we get it you love marshall and think everyone else who doesn't is wrong. Great. Listing off how many awards he has is not going to change anyone's mind.

denballs

thats not the point i dont want to change your minds i gave my opinion and everyone told me off for it and stood up for who they believe is the best..i merely did the same..........like who you like......whattever you relate to you relate to........im just saying eminem sells the most and has been voted the best ever rapper numerous times so my opinion is backed by a couple million more than the rest of yours {im not saying its more valid or important}..........but if you needed to decide the best would you not go on acalades / record sales / and majority opinions...........oh and yeah i got it from wiki because millions of people put their knowledge into that site which makes it important.......

zimovain

Eminem is a great rapper but for me Nas is the best out there.

lordgoat

denballs wrote: »

thats not the point i dont want to change your minds i gave my opinion and everyone told me off for it and stood up for who they believe is the best..i merely did the same..........like who you like......whattever you relate to you relate to........im just saying eminem sells the most and has been voted the best ever rapper numerous times so my opinion is backed by a couple million more than the rest of yours im not saying its more valid or important}..........but if you needed to decide the best would you not go on acalades / record sales / and majority opinions...........oh and yeah i got it from wiki because millions of people put their knowledge into that site which makes it important.......

Thanks for clearing that up for us, so he is in fact the Westlife/boyzone of the rap world? Well played :rolleyes:

Oh and you're dead righht about wikipedia as well.

zimovain

lordgoat wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up for us, so he is in fact the Westlife/boyzone of the rap world? Well played :rolleyes:

Oh and you're dead righht about wikipedia as well.

:D:D:D

D'Agger

denballs wrote: »

thats not the point i dont want to change your minds i gave my opinion and everyone told me off for it and stood up for who they believe is the best..i merely did the same

No you see you didn't just give your opinion on why you like Eminem which would've been fine - you decided to spark an argument by calling Jay-Z an average black rapper, saying he only raps about bitches & drugs, how he can't freestyle - You've put more time into discrediting my opinion that Jay-Z is my favourite rapper than formulating your own about how Eminem is the best.

but if you needed to decide the best would you not go on acalades / record sales / and majority opinions

If I had to decide who was the best in the world - It'd be based on my opinion, therefore acolades & record sales wouldn't come into it for me - as Lordgoat pointed out - Westlife aren't the best band around because they've won awards and sold lots of records.

Finally - would I base my opinion on majority opinions? - do you not see the irony in that - especially when it comes to music

Kold

Determining the best in the world is a stupid game. Because there are simply too many things to factor in. Ronaldinho was the best footballer in the world there 2 years ago and now he's not even mentioned in the same breath as Messi. Music is to be judged on what you experience at the time. It's my belief that musicians are best judged on the power of their studio albums because these are what they get most input into. Eminem falls down at that level in my elitist opinion.

D'Agger

Kold wrote: »

Music is to be judged on what you experience at the time

Great point

Boom_Bap

i've only stumbled accross this thread now and have to add my 2 cents.

Eminem is a serioulsy talentened mc. His delivery and rhyme patterns are fantastic. He can basically flow over any beat and match his lyrics to the pattern, he can also throw double time into the mix to extend his vocal ability and how he rides a beat.

Eminem is also proven in the past to be an extremely talented battle rapper and freestyler. It's not something which he would regularly do now and when i have heard him doing it recently, it has always been written material. Right now, it's not his primary focus...battling and freestyling requires a natural talent which Em has, but it also requires dedication and practice. This is something which I doubt is done regularly by Eminem since he has established himself. JUICE was mentioned on this thread earlier, he was the best of the best as he dedicated his time to practice. When it came to releasing an album, he didnt have the ability to convert his ability as a battle MC to a recording artist. This is something that has sucessfully achieved by Em, if proof is needed go to youtube, also look up his freestyles for the Wake Up Show which is where he really got his first break and a platform to be heard.

But, it wasnt until he started recording catchy somewhat cheesy singles that he become popular. Lets not forget that he released an album called Infinte which went largely under the radar, on this album he really shows his lyrical dexterity but it lacked a single to bring him to the limelight. It was on subsequent releases working with Dre where he managed to break through.

Although lyrically he has retained his gift, its his unfortunate choice of subject matter and production that has let him down in his last few albums. He got the idea that he was a super producer but in my opinion he clearly is not. He also started his own record label and expand into clothing lines etc which took his focus away.

Comparing him to other artists and achievements is not necessarily going to provide any definitive answer on who is better. It's all down to personal opinion and taste. I can rattle off different artists that have much better subject matter, who have much better lyrical ability, who have much better talent, much better production etc. There was a time where Em was able to put everything together and deliver it as a package and be a complete artist. Unfortunately, in my opinion, those days have passed and will not return. Many people will say it's because he stopped 'using', this is BS, it's when he started to take complete control is when things started slipping.

Oh.....and in responce to a comment about Jay Z producing.........I dont think that he has ever produced a song that was put on an album. He has executive produced which is a totally different thing.

denballs

PaulieC wrote: »

No you see you didn't just give your opinion on why you like Eminem which would've been fine - you decided to spark an argument by calling Jay-Z an average black rapper, saying he only raps about bitches & drugs, how he can't freestyle - You've put more time into discrediting my opinion that Jay-Z is my favourite rapper than formulating your own about how Eminem is the best.



If I had to decide who was the best in the world - It'd be based on my opinion, therefore acolades & record sales wouldn't come into it for me - as Lordgoat pointed out - Westlife aren't the best band around because they've won awards and sold lots of records.

Finally - would I base my opinion on majority opinions? - do you not see the irony in that - especially when it comes to music

i was showing jay-z,s limitations compared to eminem...........

if you were asked to compare 8 t0 ten you would say 10 is 2 more .you wouldnt just say its high or that its ten............


as for the second part its open to debate but it,d be opinionated debate which lacks reasoning so........will you agree that personally everyone decides their own best but that eminem has had a more glorified career than jay z

Boom_Bap

denballs wrote: »

i was showing jay-z,s limitations compared to eminem...........

if you were asked to compare 8 t0 ten you would say 10 is 2 more .you wouldnt just say its high or that its ten............


as for the second part its open to debate but it,d be opinionated debate which lacks reasoning so........will you agree that personally everyone decides their own best but that eminem has had a more glorified career than jay z

As the Jay Z/EM debate is still going, i'd like to point out that Jay Z has a far superior disography than Eminem, some might say that Reasonable Doubt alone is better than the best of all Eminems albums put together. Most people would agree that anything after the Marshal Mathers LP has been a disappointment, whereas Jay-Z has been very consitent. There where a few blips along the lines for Jay, but these where mainly one or 2 songs from albums such as Sunshine or Hard Knock Life. But at the end of the day, Em is a far better MC than Jay.

But they are 2 seperate people with 2 seperate artistic directions and there is no definitive answer as to who is better....except for personal taste.

ru437z9t8fidq2

Boom_Bap wrote: »

As the Jay Z/EM debate is still going, i'd like to point out that Jay Z has a far superior disography than Eminem, some might say that Reasonable Doubt alone is better than the best of all Eminems albums put together. Most people would agree that anything after the Marshal Mathers LP has been a disappointment, whereas Jay-Z has been very consitent. There where a few blips along the lines for Jay, but these where mainly one or 2 songs from albums such as Sunshine or Hard Knock Life. But at the end of the day, Em is a far better MC than Jay.

But they are 2 seperate people with 2 seperate artistic directions and there is no definitive answer as to who is better....except for personal taste.

ok. I couldnt agree... less.
Sorry to sound insulting Im not really sure where you are getting this 'Most people would agree that anything after the Marshal Mathers LP has been a disappointment' thing. Were supposed to repect others opinions but thats just not true and kind of an unintelligent thing to say since eminem was the highest selling artist of the decade. This clearly would not happen unless he was releasing great albums and MOST people loved them. Ok the rest of your post makes sense cos its your opinion etc etc.
I think he is the best rapper ever to live. I think Relapse wasnt to the standard we were used to but it still stood up to any other material released that year buy other rappers. Recovery will be amazing. We have heard the first song "not afraid" and Im pretty sure that went straight into 1 in the american billboard top 100.
If we are comparing em to jay, listen to renegade. Im not sure if its really about your taste when you listen tho this song its clear whos superior. Comparing to jay- One of the worst decisions jay made was to sing with em, he killed him-as nas often said. I wish em had been in a song with pac or biggie when they were around so he could really prove his talent. He has been in the same song as dre (guilty conscience-killed him, even em said he did), as wayne, kanye and drake (no need to say who gave the best addition to that song) and with many more and i am yet to see him be overshadowed...