Significantly Cheaper Bicycles

taung

Most bicycles sales, at the moment, are coming through the goverment's 'bike to work' scheme, but for those who don't qualify for this scheme you can buy bicycle's at significantly cheaper prices, including delivery costs, from an internet bike shop based in Austria here.

Examples of the savings you can make compared to the normal retail prices of GIANT bicycles in Ireland;



GIANT Seek 4 €74
GIANT Seek 3 €90
GIANT Seek 0 €95
GIANT Tourer RS1 €115
GIANT Seek 1 €126
GIANT XTC 1 €144
GIANT Advanced 2 €396


Irish bike stores have a fairly greedy margin on bikes, at the moment.

Of course, you'll have to assemble the bike yourself, but an hour or two should do this, for most people.

A couple of things to watch out for with these imported bikes;

1. The bikes will have the rear/front brakes levers the wrong way 'round compared to other 'Irish/UK' bikes. They can be switched back to 'normal' positioning, if needs be, fairly quickly.

2. The frame sizes may be differently marked (S/M/L/XL) compared to 'Irish/UK' bikes. So, double check with bikestore before specifying size.

I've bought a bike from them recently and had no problems with the purchase, delivery or the bike.

yop

Will you have to pay customs or is it since it's in the EU that it will be sound?

taung

yop wrote: »

Will you have to pay customs or is it since it's in the EU that it will be sound?

EU-EU, no customs tax due at all.....

wer*

Doh

Kenny_D

I'm guessing those arent the prices but the savings compared to the Irish prices

Berty

I took a look because I was recently looking at a Giant bike in my local shop. My local shop is cheaper than this that website and the lead time is 24 hours from his wholesaler to his shop to my hands.

Im sure if I looked harder that there might be a saving in there against LIST PRICES but not to the price you get from haggling.

adamski8

taung wrote: »

1. The bikes will have the rear/front brakes levers the wrong way 'round compared to other 'Irish/UK' bikes. They can be switched back to 'normal' positioning, if needs be, fairly quickly.

off topic but i never knew that bikes had a particular left=front brake etc thing before! whats the point in this? (that one side must always be the brake to a particular wheel) And why would Ireland be different to a contiental bike in this regard?

taung

Berty wrote: »

I took a look because I was recently looking at a Giant bike in my local shop. My local shop is cheaper than this that website and the lead time is 24 hours from his wholesaler to his shop to my hands.

Im sure if I looked harder that there might be a saving in there against LIST PRICES but not to the price you get from haggling.

The trouble is a lot of the shops won't entertain 'haggling' or 'cash' discounts at the moment since they are getting so much business from the 'bike to work' scheme.......

kona

adamski8 wrote: »

off topic but i never knew that bikes had a particular left=front brake etc thing before! whats the point in this? (that one side must always be the brake to a particular wheel) And why would Ireland be different to a contiental bike in this regard?

Because we drive on different sides of the road, The idea being that to indicate across traffic, you aint left pulling the front brake and the inevitable faceplant.


I think the OP is "slightly" misleading.

kona

taung wrote: »

Irish bike stores have a fairly greedy margin on bikes, at the moment.

They also have a much smaller allocation of production so dont shift as many bikes , hence dont get discounts for bulk buys.... simples.

If we were a cycling nation we would be just as cheap as Europe, were far from it so we are far from cheap.

Also Labour etc etc is higher here too. Also in a Bike shop you pay for a bike to be professionally assembled.

You get neither and are left to your own devices.....most people couldnt assemble a bike to a safe standard.

Berty

taung wrote: »

The trouble is a lot of the shops won't entertain 'haggling' or 'cash' discounts at the moment since they are getting so much business from the 'bike to work' scheme.......

I've been told by a lot of bike shops, when looking for the bike, that people are ordering bikes and then not turning up and they are left with excess stock.

kona

Berty wrote: »

I've been told by a lot of bike shops, when looking for the bike, that people are ordering bikes and then not turning up and they are left with excess stock.

All too true unfortunatley..

Also, Haggling...Like something from monty python ha ha.:D

Would you haggle or ask for a cash discount for your loaf of bread? Why should a shop discount the bike if you offer cash? I mean isnt that what they want? cash?

The mind boggles over some consumers.

rh5555

Sorry, just a question about the 'bike to work scheme'. Does this scheme only apply if you buy a bike from Ireland or can you buy it anywhere in the EU if your company supports the cycle to work scheme?

Ireland doesn't have that many great offers that I could find while the UK and other EU countries do, but if the bike has to be bought in Ireland then you actually may come cheaper buying it somewhere else even without the scheme.

Thirdfox

kona wrote: »

All too true unfortunatley..

Also, Haggling...Like something from monty python ha ha.:D

Would you haggle or ask for a cash discount for your loaf of bread? Why should a shop discount the bike if you offer cash? I mean isnt that what they want? cash?

The mind boggles over some consumers.

And would you negotiate better deals when purchasing a car or a tv/cinema system? No? Too bad for you then, you could have gotten a better price.

A costly bike isn't the same as a loaf of bread or a box of matches.

Of course, for those who live near the centre of Dublin - you could avail of the 10 euro Dublin Bike scheme - 10 euro to use the bikes for a year (30 minutes free riding and must have a 5 minute time gap between returning one bike and taking out another).

IrishTonyO

kona wrote: »

All too true unfortunatley..

Also, Haggling...Like something from monty python ha ha.:D

Would you haggle or ask for a cash discount for your loaf of bread? Why should a shop discount the bike if you offer cash? I mean isnt that what they want? cash?

The mind boggles over some consumers.

Actually my mind boggles more over people who are afraid to ask for a discount. The worst than can happen is they say no, but 95% of the time you will get a better deal.

chillywilly

kona wrote: »

All too true unfortunatley..

Also, Haggling...Like something from monty python ha ha.:D

Would you haggle or ask for a cash discount for your loaf of bread? Why should a shop discount the bike if you offer cash? I mean isnt that what they want? cash?

The mind boggles over some consumers.

No I wouldn't haggle over the price of bread because it is a convenience product. Something you buy every other day for less than a euro. A bike is a speciality product which you would expect to last you a few years so you would expect to pay more for it. That doesn't stop you from trying to get the best price and good value. As another poster said, would you haggle for a car, T.V, furniture? If the answer is no you are losing out on potential savings.

The mind boggles why some consumers wouldn't want to save money.

cianof

I would have guessed that <=€300 would be a reasonable price to pay for a decent hybrid.

The Giant hybrids on that site seem to be starting at €400.

kona

Thirdfox wrote: »

And would you negotiate better deals when purchasing a car or a tv/cinema system? No? Too bad for you then, you could have gotten a better price.

A costly bike isn't the same as a loaf of bread or a box of matches.

Of course, for those who live near the centre of Dublin - you could avail of the 10 euro Dublin Bike scheme - 10 euro to use the bikes for a year (30 minutes free riding and must have a 5 minute time gap between returning one bike and taking out another).

Most bikes people buy in this coutry are cheap ****e. If your spending 1k on a bike then Im sure youd "haggle"

The fact is....as highlighted above :rolleyes: that people find e300 alot for bike.

I rather do my research and find out how much a product is worth, Then go find it for the cheapest price. Have a look on adverts advertise a bike for e300 and youl get some spa "testing the water " with e150. Muppets.

You do realise that retailers include "haggling" into their margins? such a waste of time. Id rather just get their cheapest price and be done, no bull****.

kona

chillywilly wrote: »

No I wouldn't haggle over the price of bread because it is a convenience product. Something you buy every other day for less than a euro. A bike is a speciality product which you would expect to last you a few years so you would expect to pay more for it. That doesn't stop you from trying to get the best price and good value. As another poster said, would you haggle for a car, T.V, furniture? If the answer is no you are losing out on potential savings.

The mind boggles why some consumers wouldn't want to save money.

You can save money but "Customers" feel that Bike shops should make a loss when they sell them their bikes....and act as if they are doing them a favor. How can you haggle on something that you have no idea of the cost?

As Ive said, If your buying a "specialty" bike, then you can get things upgraded cheap maybe even a bit knocked off. If your buying a generic bike for e100 why would you haggle, isnt e100 cheap enough for a bike(which wont last a few years?)

kona

rh5555 wrote: »

Sorry, just a question about the 'bike to work scheme'. Does this scheme only apply if you buy a bike from Ireland or can you buy it anywhere in the EU if your company supports the cycle to work scheme?

Ireland doesn't have that many great offers that I could find while the UK and other EU countries do, but if the bike has to be bought in Ireland then you actually may come cheaper buying it somewhere else even without the scheme.

You can buy where ever you want. But I dont see why the government should subsidise you if your not supporting a Irish Jobs.

21% or 42% off is as good a offer as you will get.

Raiser

Had a look at the Site but (I know its translated) its a mess.

- Anyone save me 30 mins and recommend any decent deals with full pricing in Euro?i

Jonny7

kona wrote: »

All too true unfortunatley..

Also, Haggling...Like something from monty python ha ha.:D

Would you haggle or ask for a cash discount for your loaf of bread? Why should a shop discount the bike if you offer cash? I mean isnt that what they want? cash?

The mind boggles over some consumers.

We all used to buy our bikes up North because of the bad prices and attitude of most southern bikes shops. We generally learnt to service the bikes and build bikes ourselves.

If you want a good mountain bike, get from abroad if you can. If you want an overpriced cheap thing and bad service from a jaded bike shop owner with a chip on shoulder about something buy Irish!

Murta

Taung, that Austrian website of yours does not seem to be much cheaper. For exmaple: Lapierre Shaper 300 Womens Bike is 699 euro. Cyclesuperstore.ie (store based in Tallagh) sells same bike for 745 euro. A mere 50 euro saving isn't worth buying from a foreign (non-english) website. When you also consider that you're losing the benefits of buying from an irish store (adjustments made to suit customer, accessories added, free service plus haggling - price reduction or freebie thrown in). That is easily worth the extra 50 euro. And that's assuming there's no p&p charge by your Austrian website to Ireland. All in all not a bargain at all.

kona

Jonny7 wrote: »

We all used to buy our bikes up North because of the bad prices and attitude of most southern bikes shops. We generally learnt to service the bikes and build bikes ourselves.

If you want a good mountain bike, get from abroad if you can. If you want an overpriced cheap thing and bad service from a jaded bike shop owner with a chip on shoulder about something buy Irish!

Would you like some Charmin Ultra with that statement?

Ive seen sub e100 bikes in ireland...Cheap definatley.....Overpirced.....Definatley not.

You get what you pay for mate. Maybe you should do some research and find out why some bikes are 10 times the price of others....

I love the word generally, ive seen amateurs attempts at fixing and assembling bikes, generally you dont have a clue. I suppose the saving up north is significant enough to invest in some of the specialist tools needed to professionally assemble a bike?

Thought not.

If you want a good mountainbike you buy the frame and buy all the various parts to the spec you want and assemble it yourself. You go up North your getting the same bike down south less

-Free Service
-Fitting
-Advice
- Convienience if a issue arises to bring it back for a repair as apposed to driving for a day. Finding out the shop cant fix it that day so your left with four journeys and the fuel costs.

kona

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Actually my mind boggles more over people who are afraid to ask for a discount. The worst than can happen is they say no, but 95% of the time you will get a better deal.

REALLY??? you have only been refused a discount 5 times out of every hundred times you ask? Thats amazing, where do you shop? Id love to know.

rh5555

if anyone needs any help to get something particular translated into somewhat better English (I hope I can beat the Google translation:)) let me know.

Also if you find a particular bike you like I usually use froogle uk and froogle.de to find the best deals on that bike. Of course you have to take shipping costs into consideration too. VAT or Duty does not matter within the EU as far as I know.

Jonny7

kona wrote: »

Would you like some Charmin Ultra with that statement?

Ive seen sub e100 bikes in ireland...Cheap definatley.....Overpirced.....Definatley not.

You get what you pay for mate. Maybe you should do some research and find out why some bikes are 10 times the price of others....

I love the word generally, ive seen amateurs attempts at fixing and assembling bikes, generally you dont have a clue. I suppose the saving up north is significant enough to invest in some of the specialist tools needed to professionally assemble a bike?

Thought not.

If you want a good mountainbike you buy the frame and buy all the various parts to the spec you want and assemble it yourself. You go up North your getting the same bike down south less

-Free Service
-Fitting
-Advice
- Convienience if a issue arises to bring it back for a repair as apposed to driving for a day. Finding out the shop cant fix it that day so your left with four journeys and the fuel costs.

I've been biking for two decades, I buy and sell quite a few bikes online, mainly specialist trials bikes like monty's, onza's etc.

The post above is arrogant, reminds me of bike shop owner/mechanic, guessing you have worked in a bike shop.

Anyway, if anyone plans to buy an expensive bike, definitely go online, the shipping is far offset by the big savings.

rh5555

Also, try to go for the 2009 model if its still available somewhere. The differences to the 2010 models are usually minor but you can get some major savings.

taung

kona wrote: »

I love the word generally, ive seen amateurs attempts at fixing and assembling bikes, generally you dont have a clue. I suppose the saving up north is significant enough to invest in some of the specialist tools needed to professionally assemble a bike?

Thought not.

The 'specialist' tools I needed to assemble the bike I recently imported are as follows;

- 5mm Allen Key
- 3mm Allen Key
- 10mm Spanner
- Philips Screwdriver
- Pliers

I'd say there is a slim chance of finding any of the above items in a handyman's toolbox. :P

It was a straight-forward job to assemble the bike and it consisted of;

- Bolt on the handlebars.
- Fix on the front wheel.
- Fix on the front wheel disc brakes.
- Swap the front/rear brake cables (optional).
- Adjust the saddle height.
- Fix on the pedals.
- Fine tune the gearing/braking system.
- Fully inflate the tyres!

The bike came with a full set of clearly written manuals for all of the components. These were a big help for the disc brakes installation and fine tuning of the gears. I don't think too many Irish bike shops give out these manuals when you buy a new bike either. The manuals will help me cut down on servicing costs as well.

kona

taung wrote: »

The 'specialist' tools I needed to assemble the bike I recently imported are as follows;

- 5mm Allen Key
- 3mm Allen Key
- 10mm Spanner
- Philips Screwdriver
- Pliers

I'd say there is a slim chance of finding any of the above items in a handyman's toolbox. :P

It was a straight-forward job to assemble the bike and it consisted of;

- Bolt on the handlebars.
- Fix on the front wheel.
- Fix on the front wheel disc brakes.
- Swap the front/rear brake cables (optional).
- Adjust the saddle height.
- Fix on the pedals.
- Fine tune the gearing/braking system.
- Fully inflate the tyres!

The bike came with a full set of clearly written manuals for all of the components. These were a big help for the disc brakes installation and fine tuning of the gears. I don't think too many Irish bike shops give out these manuals when you buy a new bike either. The manuals will help me cut down on servicing costs as well.

You forgot a headset spanner (tightens the bearing in your headset).

You forgot the torque wrench 40n/M for each of the crank bolts.

You forgot the BB lockring tool.

You forgot spoke key.

Also alot of the cheaper bikes dont have QR axles like you have so you will need a 15mm spanner too.

If you want pegs on a BMX a 19mm socket and a ratchet and extender will be needed.

The manuals come with all bikes, I give them out, doesnt make a difference you seem to be one of the few that actually read instructions before attempting assembly.:)

You see You havnt tightend your cranks onto the taper of the BB axle(even though they come attached they are never tightened up enough) so its possible your cranks will come off and will need to be replaced(not warranty, it was incorrect assembly).

The BB bearing will come loose because you have not tightend the lock ring(you may have a sealed BB so this could be irrelevant to you)

Your headset may come loose and wear into the cups causing damage.

Worst case scenario, you could end up with a bill of e100+ to replace those parts.

You wont do it yourself as you will need a headset press, you will need a tool to remove the BB (if its a cheap bike they can be seized in even new)


Also, You do realise that many bikes come from the factory without grease in the hubs and bearings? They have a coating to prevent corrosion, thats all. SO you will need cone spanners too if you want to grease your hubs.



****** I should know better, the customer is ALWAYS right LOL *********

keithclancy

kona wrote: »

They also have a much smaller allocation of production so dont shift as many bikes , hence dont get discounts for bulk buys.... simples.

If we were a cycling nation we would be just as cheap as Europe, were far from it so we are far from cheap.

Also Labour etc etc is higher here too. Also in a Bike shop you pay for a bike to be professionally assembled.

You get neither and are left to your own devices.....most people couldnt assemble a bike to a safe standard.

Ireland is cheaper than the Netherlands for bikes.

alastair

There's a decent enough bike toolkit shows up a couple of times a year at Lidl. Certainly good enough quality for initial bike assembly. Any missing tools or lubricants etc are equally available from the NI bike retailers. Nothing wrong with paying that bit extra for buying locally - assuming you've a decent LBS, but it's equally true that the savings to be made by buying up north (either bikes or components) are considerable, and outweigh the potential pitfalls of what is an essentially pretty straightforward assembly process. No need for scaremongering.

kona

keithclancy wrote: »

Ireland is cheaper than the Netherlands for bikes.

Do the dutch buy alot of new bikes? I dont think they do, they repair what they have....

kona

alastair wrote: »

There's a decent enough bike toolkit shows up a couple of times a year at Lidl. Certainly good enough quality for initial bike assembly. Any missing tools or lubricants etc are equally available from the NI bike retailers. Nothing wrong with paying that bit extra for buying locally - assuming you've a decent LBS, but it's equally true that the savings to be made by buying up north (either bikes or components) are considerable, and outweigh the potential pitfalls of what is an essentially pretty straightforward assembly process. No need for scaremongering.

Yes its straight forward, but the majority of people cannot do it. Whats scarey is that they then take these bikes into traffic. Or the kids ride them.

You can say what you want, everybody has their own skill levels, from what I can see the MAJORITY or people just cannot assemble a bike to a safe standard. Obviously some are competant, but saying its easy isnt right because your misleading people.

Sure you can buy a tool set from Lidl, You can order parts from NI....but is it worth the hassle? You may find you have ordered these parts and you cant assemble the bike?

There are savings to be made......not alot mind you from the OP post, youd swear e200 will get you a XTC1 and change:rolleyes:

There is a reason why there are qualifications for bike mechanics and courses, They are simple machines, but they are only simple if you know what to do. Saying its easy after assembling a bike thats 80% pre assembled is rediculous, you can barley even get a feel for it.

Some bikes come in various stages of assembly, some bikes have different parts and need specialist tools. Making generalised statements is stupid because in some cases your misleading people.

Its like saying Ive changed to oil on my fiesta, sure Ill do it on my mates Ferrari, its the same.

rubadub

Some online shops will sell a bike assembled & testede, I know www.wiggle.co.uk do so I presume others do. I have assembled a few online and had no trouble with them, I have them to a mate of mine who is an experienced bike mechanic for a once over and he saw no problem with them.

The other option is to buy the bike and pay for it to be assembled by a bike shop here, I am surprised more do not advertise this as a service. No doubt some bike shops will cut their nose off to spite their face and refuse to assemble it, just like some PC shop might refuse to fit components you bought elsewhere, but their loss, the bike is bought now if they want no money let them bite their nose off. There are big savings to be had, not only on VAT but the fact the dealers here can be paying more wholesale than a price a foreign shop could sell at, i.e. the RRP is often a lot higher. My mechanic mate bought a bike direct from an agent here at cost price and another mate got the exact same model from the UK for less.

alastair

Buying a toolkit? - It's worth the hassle if you've any interest in maintaining your own bike without the need to continually return to a bike shop (convenience and cost come into play here). It's not for everyone, but it's the best route to keeping your bike in a good, safe, and reliable condition. Why not start at the outset?

And changing the oil in a ferrari is no more difficult than a fiesta. Once you've established which grade to use, it's much the same deal.

mp3kid

kona wrote: »

Its like saying Ive changed to oil on my fiesta, sure Ill do it on my mates Ferrari, its the same.

it's essentially the same, yes

taung

rubadub wrote: »

The other option is to buy the bike and pay for it to be assembled by a bike shop here, I am surprised more do not advertise this as a service. No doubt some bike shops will cut their nose off to spite their face and refuse to assemble it, just like some PC shop might refuse to fit components you bought elsewhere, but their loss, the bike is bought now if they want no money let them bite their nose off.

Great business idea! There's a good few guys making money out of assembling IKEA furniture thesedays. I guess a significant number of people don't want the hassle of assembling relatively minor things.

rubadub wrote: »

There are big savings to be had, not only on VAT but the fact the dealers here can be paying more wholesale than a price a foreign shop could sell at, i.e. the RRP is often a lot higher. My mechanic mate bought a bike direct from an agent here at cost price and another mate got the exact same model from the UK for less.

Something is definitely wrong with the bike business in Ireland; middlemen seem to be taking nice margins as well. Do most bike shops get stock from UK, even if the main distribution centres are not in the UK e.g. GIANT's main European distribution/warehouse is in Rotterdam, I believe.

kona

mp3kid wrote: »

it's essentially the same, yes

LOL

kona

alastair wrote: »

Buying a toolkit? - It's worth the hassle if you've any interest in maintaining your own bike without the need to continually return to a bike shop (convenience and cost come into play here). It's not for everyone, but it's the best route to keeping your bike in a good, safe, and reliable condition. Why not start at the outset?

And changing the oil in a ferrari is no more difficult than a fiesta. Once you've established which grade to use, it's much the same deal.

What if the ferrari is dry sumped? What if you have to remove parts to get to the filter?

?


Also If your gunna buy a tool kit with a view to using it more than once, youd be better off investing in quaslity tools as opposed to Lidl.

kona

Q. How do I do an oil change on a 575? Is there any special way of doing it?
Tiny

A. Without a Work Shop Manual you are wasting your time. Take the lower tray off, remove the 2 filters and retorque new ones, drain the sump and the tank. Fill with proper amount of oil start warm to correct temperature and top off oil tank. You should take this car to someone that knows how to do this job. The dif/trans also needscto be serviced and brakes flushed. Good luck.

Hope you find this helpful,

Frank Maderi
Wide World of Cars
Spring Valley, New York
E-mail franklin1111@aol.com


Ya the same as the fiesta:rolleyes:

alastair

kona wrote: »

Q. How do I do an oil change on a 575? Is there any special way of doing it?
Tiny

A. Without a Work Shop Manual you are wasting your time. Take the lower tray off, remove the 2 filters and retorque new ones, drain the sump and the tank. Fill with proper amount of oil start warm to correct temperature and top off oil tank. You should take this car to someone that knows how to do this job. The dif/trans also needscto be serviced and brakes flushed. Good luck.

Hope you find this helpful,


Ya the same as the fiesta:rolleyes:

Ehh - aside from removing a tray to access the sump (and a second filter to replace), this is the same process as for the Fiesta. The tranny and brakes are a red herring - nowt to do with changing the oil..

keithclancy

kona wrote: »

Do the dutch buy alot of new bikes? I dont think they do, they repair what they have....

Yup they do, as a tourist you'd mainly see the old rust buckets parked up in the city.

This is because the Dutch have a bike they can afford to get stolen and a good bike for weekend rides.

A good new bike in the Netherlands you'd expect pay 400 - 600 euros.

You wouldn't spend more than 40 euros on your ****e bike for the city.

kona

keithclancy wrote: »

Yup they do, as a tourist you'd mainly see the old rust buckets parked up in the city.

This is because the Dutch have a bike they can afford to get stolen and a good bike for weekend rides.

A good new bike in the Netherlands you'd expect pay 400 - 600 euros.

You wouldn't spend more than 40 euros on your ****e bike for the city.

Strange because a decent bike here is 4-600 euro? A good bike 6 - 1000 and a great bike 1000+

kona

alastair wrote: »

Ehh - aside from removing a tray to access the sump (and a second filter to replace), this is the same process as for the Fiesta. The tranny and brakes are a red herring - nowt to do with changing the oil..

Obviously it does considering that its related to the question.

I could describe removing a engine in 3 lines. Always easier than it actually is. I can guarantee you a oil change on a ferrari is alot more involved than on a fiesta.

The process is obviously the same. Its removing bits to get at the filters, its having the correct tools (not the aul screwdriver through filter and turn), its knowing that there maybe etra parts needed.

Im just saying that people on this thread are incorrectly portraying bikes to come all the same way and are all as easy to assemble. They are not.

Then again, arguing with people in bargain alerts is akin to smashing your head off a wall...pointless as you are always correct no matter what.

LFC5Times

So are these cheap bikes any good does anybody know? Ta

Harrybelafonte

kona wrote: »

Obviously it does considering that its related to the question.

I could describe removing a engine in 3 lines. Always easier than it actually is. I can guarantee you a oil change on a ferrari is alot more involved than on a fiesta.

The process is obviously the same. Its removing bits to get at the filters, its having the correct tools (not the aul screwdriver through filter and turn), its knowing that there maybe etra parts needed.

Im just saying that people on this thread are incorrectly portraying bikes to come all the same way and are all as easy to assemble. They are not.

Then again, arguing with people in bargain alerts is akin to smashing your head off a wall...pointless as you are always correct no matter what.

Ferrari and fiesta similar but not same

1. Viscosity
2. Quantity of oil
3. Torque requirements for replacing plug.