Your age v playing in a band !

Rigsby

I constantly see on this forum, threads looking for band mates with the words, "must be aged between x and y" in them. I can not understand why age should determine whether you are successful in applying to be in a band. Why should age matter, once you like the music being played and are good on your instrument ? Granted, someone older might not have much in common with younger people, but the music should be the common denominator in any band. They dont have to be together outside of the band. If someone is looking for friendship and people to hang out with, well that's a different thing altogether, but the "bands and musicians" forum is, I assume, exactly for that. Traditional musicians dont seem to have a problem with age. Often you see trad groups with ages ranging from early teens to middle age and older. When the gig/concert is over, they leave and get on with leading their respective lives.

The idea of age v playing music does not bother me as much as puzzel me.

Maybe someone can enlighten me ?

maccored

i think thats an attitude (as in has to be age x, y, or z) that changes (ironically) as one grows older. Im pretty ancient, just about in my 40's and the people I write and play music with are pretty dedicated musicians. those who liked the idea of being involved in music but didnt have the dedication/want/need etc dont play anymore. You could make a whole thread even on the 'when is it time to give up on music' really, but then again it depends why anyone writes music. i do it because it gets really annoying having ideas for tunes and then saying 'oh yeah, sure I dont play music anymore'.

Music is Art in my book and also a bit of a curse when you feel the need to explain to people you dont play music for any other reason than you want to. I wonder if artists do the same thing ... 'come work in my studio but only if you are in your 20's ' .... i dont think so.

Rigsby

maccored wrote: »

i think thats an attitude (as in has to be age x, y, or z) that changes (ironically) as one grows older. Im pretty ancient, just about in my 40's and the people I write and play music with are pretty dedicated musicians. those who liked the idea of being involved in music but didnt have the dedication/want/need etc dont play anymore. You could make a whole thread even on the 'when is it time to give up on music' really, but then again it depends why anyone writes music. i do it because it gets really annoying having ideas for tunes and then saying 'oh yeah, sure I dont play music anymore'.

Music is Art in my book and also a bit of a curse when you feel the need to explain to people you dont play music for any other reason than you want to. I wonder if artists do the same thing ... 'come work in my studio but only if you are in your 20's ' .... i dont think so.

Interesting post.

When you say "when it's time to give up on music", do you mean playing or just listening ? Whatever about the former, I would assume that the vast majority of people of all ages never stop listening to music through out their lives ( not constantly maybe). Also, IMO once people get the bug for playing and/or writing music, they find it very hard to give up on it for good. Some might take a break from it for a few years, but more often than not they return to it in some way.

Getting back to the age thing. The legendary jazz trumpeter Miles Davis, when asked about how he recruited band members, once said, "I dont care about age, sex or colour, once they can play".

maccored

i'd be on about creating music. i find that people who believe musicians only play music in an attempt to be on TotPs or to be famous, find it strange that anyone over 30 plays an instrument. they kinda miss the point that many of us write music mainly for our own benefit.

maccored

Rigsby wrote: »

Getting back to the age thing. The legendary jazz trumpeter Miles Davis, when asked about how he recruited band members, once said, "I dont care about age, sex or colour, once they can play".

I'd concur with that

Rigsby

maccored wrote: »

i'd be on about creating music. i find that people who believe musicians only play music in an attempt to be on TotPs or to be famous, find it strange that anyone over 30 plays an instrument. they kinda miss the point that many of us write music mainly for our own benefit.

Yeah, maybe the music is only incidental to a lot of younger people. They want to be rich and famous ( and often want it to happen over night) like their idols. It's more about image, and this is possibly why they dont want an old "has been" in their band, even though he/she could be a musical genius. Seems a very shallow attitude to me.

NoQuarter

Rigsby wrote: »

It's more about image

Thats the simple answer to this thread. But thats the way music is nowadays, your idealist theory is great but not realistic.

maccored

image has always been a part of it - just look at the 80s. then again, if peoples interest is more in the image than the music, then really should be fans of fashion instead. plus, who says younger people have a better image than those older than them anyway? somebody better tell Bowie that.

Rigsby

king-stew wrote: »

Thats the simple answer to this thread. But thats the way music is nowadays, your idealist theory is great but not realistic.

Yes, I suppose you are right, but it is not really "music" in the true sense then is it, as much as music as a fashion item ?

NoQuarter

maccored wrote: »

plus, who says younger people have a better image than those older than them anyway?

I think you may have missed the point a bit. Its not that younger people have a "better" image, its just an image, and certan ages/sex/etc etc wouldnt fit into that stereotypical whatever it is they are looking for.

Rigsby wrote: »

but it is not really "music" in the true sense then is it, as much as music as a fashion item ?

No its not music in the true sense i suppose! But music is always like that, you wouldnt see someone singing in an opera with shorts and a t-shirt! Image has always been prevailant in music! But music can also be as much about the performance.

maccored

I think you may have missed the point a bit. Its not that younger people have a "better" image, its just an image, and certan ages/sex/etc etc wouldnt fit into that stereotypical whatever it is they are looking for.

ah, but thats the thing ... thats not really music though. its fashion/record labels/commerciality and everything thats wrong with the music industry.

maccored

king-stew wrote: »

But music is always like that, you wouldnt see someone singing in an opera with shorts and a t-shirt! Image has always been prevailant in music! But music can also be as much about the performance.

Nigel Kennedy? (though not opera, granted)

Rigsby

king-stew wrote: »

But music is always like that, you wouldnt see someone singing in an opera with shorts and a t-shirt!

Not necessarily true. That would depend on the story content behind the opera. Different types of "costume" are often used in opera.

NoQuarter

maccored wrote: »

ah, but thats the thing ... thats not really music though. its fashion/record labels/commerciality and everything thats wrong with the music industry.

Probably true. But it could be worse.

Rigsby wrote: »

Not necessarily true. That would depend on the story content behind the opera. Different types of "costume" are often used in opera.

There are exceptions to everything though, Im sure theres plenty of bands who would take an older person on. Works both ways.

Rigsby

king-stew wrote: »

There are exceptions to everything though, Im sure theres plenty of bands who would take an older person on. Works both ways.

I agree, though judging by the general threads here on any given day the word "plenty" is a bit strong. Plus, IMO an older person(s) would be more inclined to take on a younger one, than vice verse.

Malice

I would insist that any band I join or form at minimum had members that had finished their Leaving Cert and reached the legal drinking age simply because it makes life a lot easier if you can all go to the pub together and if there's less chance of them going off to the other end of the country for college.

I agree that something like "only people between 25-30 need apply" seems a bit unnecessarily limiting.

RC88

Can't really see the problem in there being a small gap between the age of band members, we see younger/older people join bands where the age difference is varied(Examples: Tim Ripper Owens Judus Priest, John Frusciante RHCP, Andy Summers The Police), I've always belived if you can play as good as you say then age should be of little difference as long as they are of an age which they know what they are getting into

Guitareaxe

Music is for life!!!!! I find however that maturity really helps make good bands. so would always look for early 20's at the lowest unless they were particularly good and professional. there is no upper limit really, so long as they can help carry the gear and put on a show!

phonarr

Age does not have any affect on how good musician you are
I couldn't agree more with that

and there are plenty of bands with no concern of becoming famous
they just wanna play music the best they can

but you should get along with the people your in a band with
personal arguments and the such just makes playing in a band unpleasent

I'm looking for a singer at the mo (the thread is around here somewhere) and we do say in the post there that our average band age is 19/20 and we would preferably like someone around our age. This comes down to the fact that as a band we make a lot of generation based jokes (such as pokemon based jokes) that no one 5 years younger or older would get. This may seem like a small thing and its certainly nobodies fault, but I'm not a huge fan of having anyone in my band that I couldn't get a pint with and have a great, non-music related, conversation, and an unfortunate truth about this is age plays a part in this.

drumdrum

I also agree that age shouldnt be a huge factor, with the ability of the person being the most important.

But I think that age acceptance , ironically enough, comes with age! When you're 18, you're suddenly able to drink (legally anyways!), go out to pubs etc, and at this age, other ages like 24 or 25 seem ages away. As you get older, you realise that the implementations of age are really unimportant and you will probably find when your in your mid 20s that you have alot more friends in wider age ranges than you did when you were 18.

Also, there is physical age, and then there is mental age. My friend plays in a band where the difference in age between the eldest and youngest is about 12 years! Yet if you've ever met the eldest, he is very young at heart and how he acts in general. Then again there are people in their young 20s that have kids and are alot more mature.

Depends really where you are in life I suppose.....


Unfortunately though, I do think that the industry has put an age cap on certain genres for newer artists trying to break through. Sure I believe that American Idol had an age upper limit of 28 or something like that. Apparently though they are getting rid of American Idol for American X factor with no upper age limit. Those shows are *** anyways though so who cares! Pop music though seems to have an age cap of between 26 - 29, depending on how young the performer looks.

rcaz

Rigsby wrote: »

They dont have to be together outside of the band. If someone is looking for friendship and people to hang out with, well that's a different thing altogether

This is an interesting idea, I think... No, they don't have to be together outside the band, but if they are, I think the band would work an awful lot better. I'm in a band with three of my best mates, and I think that's the best way to have it. I know how my mates think about things and how they like to work, so if someone's getting frustrated or having a tough time doing their part at a time, the rest of us know how to handle it and help him out, or when to call a break, or the best way to phrase criticisms and that kind of thing. I think, the closer the band is as mates, the more work will get done and the more efficient the whole thing would be.

Rigsby

El Pr0n wrote: »

This is an interesting idea, I think... No, they don't have to be together outside the band, but if they are, I think the band would work an awful lot better. I'm in a band with three of my best mates, and I think that's the best way to have it. I know how my mates think about things and how they like to work, so if someone's getting frustrated or having a tough time doing their part at a time, the rest of us know how to handle it and help him out, or when to call a break, or the best way to phrase criticisms and that kind of thing. I think, the closer the band is as mates, the more work will get done and the more efficient the whole thing would be.

Yes, I can see your point and it makes sense. However it would depend on the personalities involved. If a person is in a band with his friends and that person is inclined towards mood swings, is undependable, etc, then it does not make for a harmonious relationship.

On the other hand, a person of a different age who only appears for practice/gigs may have an easy going and hard working attitude, and be reliable.

I know which one I'd prefer to work with.

Rigsby

phonarr wrote: »

This comes down to the fact that as a band we make a lot of generation based jokes (such as pokemon based jokes) that no one 5 years younger or older would get. This may seem like a small thing and its certainly nobodies fault, but I'm not a huge fan of having anyone in my band that I couldn't get a pint with and have a great, non-music related, conversation, and an unfortunate truth about this is age plays a part in this.

As I was saying in the reply to ElPron, this again, comes down to personality and not age.

Of course you can have a pint and a non-music related conversation with an older person, depending on that person's outlook and personality, not on their age. Why would you think not ?

Conversely, a person of the same age could be introverted, shy, with no sense of humour etc.

Being of a certain age is not a prerequisite to certain personal qualities... be they good or bad.

Murphyt

I think it depends on what you are looking for out of the music. It is interesting to see everyone talk about not taking on older guys where as I am looking the opposite way, the band I am in could do with a singer but we get along singing ourselves at the mo, so I am looking for someone close to our age because of our circumstances, we are all married with kids and so there is a lot of intrusions to the music, due to this i dont want to waste a younger persons time and also I dont want the lets take over the world attitude either as family is first.
Also if you are writing original material it is important that people are on a similiar wavelength and age can send alot of peaks in there.
For the likes of traditional music, jazz and blues age does not matter as much as its generally more of a jam situation so you do your thing and then move on.

Rigsby

Murphyt wrote: »

I think it depends on what you are looking for out of the music. It is interesting to see everyone talk about not taking on older guys where as I am looking the opposite way, the band I am in could do with a singer but we get along singing ourselves at the mo, so I am looking for someone close to our age because of our circumstances, we are all married with kids and so there is a lot of intrusions to the music, due to this i dont want to waste a younger persons time and also I dont want the lets take over the world attitude either as family is first.
Also if you are writing original material it is important that people are on a similiar wavelength and age can send alot of peaks in there.
For the likes of traditional music, jazz and blues age does not matter as much as its generally more of a jam situation so you do your thing and then move on.

Some good points there. As regards the type of music.... see the quote below from my original post.

Rigsby wrote: »

Why should age matter, once you like the music being played and are good on your instrument ?

Murphyt

Yeah I agree with what you say about being good enough on the instrument that it should not matter and like I said that is fine for trad, jazz and blues where you can jam and improvise or any non original band where you just need to know the song but for creating original music being good on an instrument is not good enough, you need a similiar attitude towards creating and taking each others ideas on board that said it doesnt mean a 20 year old cant work with a 35 year old but it would be rare that they gel in more than the music in order to make it a success (and I dont mean financial success)

Rigsby

Murphyt wrote: »

Yeah I agree with what you say about being good enough on the instrument that it should not matter and like I said that is fine for trad, jazz and blues where you can jam and improvise or any non original band where you just need to know the song but for creating original music being good on an instrument is not good enough, you need a similiar attitude towards creating and taking each others ideas on board that said it doesnt mean a 20 year old cant work with a 35 year old but it would be rare that they gel in more than the music in order to make it a success (and I dont mean financial success)

So, in your opinion, what other qualities would need to be present in both people for it to work ? I would have thought that determination to make it work would be 99% of what is needed. Again, this has nothing to do with age.

biko

I think it's because most bands start out as a group of friends.
Then when they are looking for an addition they kinds think "someone who we can hang out with" which pretty much excludes anyone more than 3-4 years their senior.
You can't really expect 20 year olds to bring their 40 year old drummer to a party.

Rigsby

biko wrote: »

I think it's because most bands start out as a group of friends.
Then when they are looking for an addition they kinds think "someone who we can hang out with" which pretty much excludes anyone more than 3-4 years their senior.
You can't really expect 20 year olds to bring their 40 year old drummer to a party.

In that case the music is only incidental, and it's really just a buddie they are looking for.

spookyghost

You callingme HAS-BEEN!? (quote from william shatner song)

Anyhoo, whats the point? or more or less who's past their point?
I personally don't think age should make a difference in ROCKING OUT, just look at TOM JONES! I'd love to have him sing in my band...

I'd rather learn something from a "real muso" than jam with a bunch of ego driven young emos....they'll get old too! Just wait...

(sorry there was more substance to this but i need to legit!):P

Insect Overlord

I'm 21, and was singing with a band for about 5 months. The other three lads were between 8 and 9 years older than me, and they elected to kick me out after I missed two rehearsals in a row. I don't know if my age played a part in their decision, but it sucked anyway...

'twas fun while it lasted I suppose.

Rigsby

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I'm 21, and was singing with a band for about 5 months. The other three lads were between 8 and 9 years older than me, and they elected to kick me out after I missed two rehearsals in a row. I don't know if my age played a part in their decision, but it sucked anyway...

'twas fun while it lasted I suppose.

You cant really blame them for for dropping you from the band if you are not going to show up for rehearsals. I'd say their thinking was, "if we can make the time available for practice, then so should he". I doubt if your age played a part here, or they would not have taken you on in the first place.

secondattempt

I think it comes down to (younger) people generally wanting to hang around with people their own age group. They are looking for friends as much as anything else in many cases. I can understand the prejudice, I think when you are 20, 26 just sounds incredibly old.

I recently came across a 19 yr old with very similar interests to me who wanted to start a band. He baulked when he heard I was 27. He's going to have to look a long time to meet a 3rd Irish person with the same interests.

At the same time I work with a band with an age range of 19/20 to 24 and they dont notice any difference between them and me (maybe because I dont look old).

It's a very unfair thing really but I think general band- seeking expectations are unrealistic. There's so many people looking for the perfect band so they can "make it" not realising the sheer years of effort that's involved in half making it and being an also ran.

I say this as I'm on the edge of being an also ran and heading for thirty.

Flynner64

hey guys, try being 45 and starting back drumming after a few years retired, and see the ageism.....

and my influences would be Chad Smith and tre cool, so not exactly ancient school !

Insect Overlord

Rigsby wrote: »

You cant really blame them for for dropping you from the band if you are not going to show up for rehearsals. I'd say their thinking was, "if we can make the time available for practice, then so should he". I doubt if your age played a part here, or they would not have taken you on in the first place.

Captain Obvious strikes again...