shhhh! handloading?

newby.204

I realise with all the hype about cf pistols this topic has slipped into the background, but where are we on handloading??

.243

i don't think anythings going to happen untill they review updating the explosives act

Dusty87

Is it still allowed to competitors for the Creedmore Cup though .243????

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

Is it still allowed to competitors for the Creedmore Cup though .243????

The Creedmore Cup is very important for the sport. Yes they will be allowed Limited handloading for it.
If they behave them selves, show Ireland off as being good boys, the boys in the park might think about letting the general shooters having it as an option.

Until then stay with your factory stuff.

dCorbus

As has been already posted, the NRAI & MNSCI were recently given permission to run a pilot reloading scheme as part of the preparations for the Creedmoor competition in 2011.

This scheme is, I understand, in development and should hopefully be up and running soon to address the accuracy and loading issues for the Creedmore competitors. As I understand it, this scheme is pretty limitted in its scope and will (for obvious reasons) have to be "policed" and organised very strictly.

As far as I'm aware (and I am happy to stand corrected on this), it's not a case that any individual intending to shoot in the Creedmoor can automatically avail of participation in the pilot re-loading scheme.

And it is very much a pilot scheme. Hopefully all will go well and the PTB's will finally see that shooters can be trusted to "behave themselves in a responsible and mature manner" (:D:rolleyes:) and perhaps eventually this valuable and sensible option of re-loading can be made for freely accessible across the board.

Fingers crossed!:)

chem

dCorbus wrote: »

(:D:rolleyes:) and perhaps eventually this valuable and sensible option of re-loading can be made for freely accessible across the board.

Fingers crossed!:)[/QUOTE

as IT IS IN NORTHERN IRELAND

johngalway

It really is a ridiculous [accent] situation [/accent] that they have reloading in the north and we don't here.

Not saying any more on it lest I have a stroke :mad:

dCorbus

as IT IS IN NORTHERN IRELAND

Ah, yes, but you see, Northern Ireland is a different jurisdiction, in case no one has noticed.:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

And re-loading is allowed there, same as across the other bits of the UK (the real bits on the other side of the sea:rolleyes:;)).

But bear in mind that whilst you can re-load / handload in the UK, you can't shoot any type of pistol or handgun, rimfire or centrefire, .22 or otherwise, (except in NI oddly enough).

So, which privileges / rights would we like to swap?;)

(Please note: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D)

Tackleberrywho

So, which privileges / rights would we like to swap?;)

(Please note: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D)[/QUOTE]

I love the Queen, She has that Cougar thing going on :D:D

johngalway

dCorbus wrote: »

So, which privileges / rights would we like to swap?;)

I'd keep our...

Garda: And you say there's lights out on the hill..
Caller: Yes, and I'm sure I heard gunfire...
Garda: Yeah, OK, no problem, sure we know that goes on, anything else now? Cat up a tree perhaps?
Caller: .....

As opposed to...

Caller: There are lights and gunfire out on the hill yonder.
PC: We'll immediately dispatch three helicopters and 15 armed response vehicles sir, would you like a crime number and a gold star?

I'd swap...

Our ability to have semi automatic HMR's for their ability to have 27 firearms per person as long as they can justify it.

I'd swap...

Dermot Ahern for reloading, I'd also throw in John Gormley for free.

I'd keep...

Our (somewhat eroding) system of letting the shooter use their common sense regarding which land is suitable to shoot different calibres as opposed to their land checks.

I'd swap...

Our prices for theirs.

dCorbus

Our prices for theirs

Nope, I'd prefer to keep paying in or around €1.349 or less per litre of unleaded.

I'd prefer to not have to pay Rates / Council Tax / Poll Tax.

I'd prefer to not have to pay Water Rates.

I'd prefer to have a Proportional Representation election system.

I'd prefer to be allowed own and shoot a .22 target pistol.

I'd prefer to be allowed licence a S/A .223 if I could show "good reason" rather than be confined to "straightpull" .223

I'd swap...Dermot Ahern for reloading, I'd also throw in John Gormley for free

But why give them away - Surely they should both be made work off their debt to society and then when we have no more use for them, we can sell them on for scrap and spare parts?:D:rolleyes:

dCorbus

I love the Queen, She has that Cougar thing going on

tackleberrywho, seek councilling - you are a very very sick man!:D:rolleyes:

Kramer

dCorbus wrote: »

PTB's will finally see that shooters can be trusted to "behave themselves in a responsible and mature manner" (:D:rolleyes:) and perhaps eventually this valuable and sensible option of re-loading can be made for freely accessible across the board.

Fingers crossed!:)

Not ever going to happen I'm afraid. Never in a million years will reloading be permitted here. Never, never, never. End of!

Dusty87

Kramer wrote: »

Not ever going to happen I'm afraid. Never in a million years will reloading be permitted here. Never, never, never. End of!

Why not???

tommyboy26

this maybe be a little silly buy why do the powers that be have such a problem with shooters reloading?



tommy

Kramer

Dusty87 wrote: »

Why not???

You are asking the wrong person. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it but it simply won't happen.
I'll say two words - horses mouth. Won't happen

Dusty87

Kramer wrote: »

You are asking the wrong person. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it but it simply won't happen.
I'll say two words - horses mouth. Won't happen

Ah feck ya, thought you knew something we didnt:p

Kramer

Dusty87 wrote: »

Ah feck ya, thought you knew something we didnt:p

I do

dCorbus

I'll say two words - horses mouth. Won't happen

Hey kramer, where are you getting all this inside info, pray tell?
You're a regular font of hearsay and unsubstatiated information.

From the mouth of which particular horse did you recieve these nuggets of info?

Never in a million years will reloading be permitted here. Never, never, never. End of

You seem so sure about this?:D;)

No sources and hearsay.....Should we believe you and if so why?

thedragon

Whats all the big fuss about, I heard from more than the horses mouth, actually from someone thats very much in the know that the whole country is loading there own. So theres nobody really hoping or waiting to be given permission, there already doing it and more power to them.:p

Tackleberrywho

thedragon wrote: »

Whats all the big fuss about, I heard from more than the horses mouth, actually from someone thats very much in the know that the whole country is loading there own. So theres nobody really hoping or waiting to be given permission, there already doing it and more power to them.:p

Not true Sir, and that is an unfair statement to make.
By saying the whole country is loa*ing you are taring us all with the same brush.

If loading was made legal, I might consider it. Until then NO, why bother risking all I have struggled to achieve? And many others think the same!!

dCorbus

Ah thedragon, ever the sensible one!:D;)

Another Man with the Secret Sources:

I heard from more than the horses mouth, actually from someone thats very much in the know

More than the Horses Mouth: WTF? Who, Mary Robinson, Bill Clinton, F. Murphy, D. Aherne, Kim Jung Il, who?

that the whole country is loading there own

The Whole Country, surely not?
I'm not - so that's the whole country - 1.:D

****, hate to be a minority of one.

So theres nobody really hoping or waiting to be given permission

There's nobody?: My arse. Another sweeping unsubstantiated generalisation. God, I love this ****e. It never changes. Samo Samo.

there already doing it and more power to them

Fair enough - Just don't get caught!;)
Coz you'll f*** it up for us law-abiding firearms owners. And we'll know who to thank then. And it won't be the PTB's. It will be our own fellow shooters. So thanks, lads! Genius Idea!


Here we go again!:eek:

sfakiaman

Kramer wrote: »

You are asking the wrong person. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it but it simply won't happen.
I'll say two words - horses mouth. Won't happen

Is this 'horses mouth' someone we can vote out next time or a permanent, penisonable, political appointee. It surely wouldn't be breaking confidentiallity, or the official secrets act to tell us that much.

marlin vs

If only we could, what a way to spend a dirty winters rainy night.

Grizzly 45

Be careful as to what you listen to Folks .
Especially from the Horses mouth information at the moment.Sombody is desperatly whispering in the horses ear as what to say so it gets out to us to create more panic or keep us guessing.
Anything coming from a Horse at the moment should be examined for fecal content at the other end.;)

johngalway

Would these rumors be of the same variety that said all .223's were going to be banned? :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

Would these rumors be of the same variety that said all .223's were going to be banned? :rolleyes:

I've heard the .223 Rumor for about 5 years now.:D:D
Wrecks my head. I reckon if it's the same horse that if it is saying it he has given up trying to get rid of all his .17's and swifts in skinny barrels.

I look forward to the creedmore cup.
it will put Ireland on the map.

lets hope we can beat the Americans and and take a lot of their tourist dollars while we are at it!

SD308

Just to clarify one small but important point;

It's spelt Creedmoor as opposed to Creedmore, as it was named after the original Creedmoor Range which was in Long Island NY, USA, where the first Ireland V America match was held in 1874.

Stephen.

Tackleberrywho

SD308 wrote: »

Just to clarify one small but important point;

It's spelt Creedmoor as opposed to Creedmore, as it was named after the original Creedmoor Range which was in Long Island NY, USA, where the first Ireland V America match was held in 1874.

Stephen.

Apologies Stephen
I'm an awful speller.
I'm very glad the Creedmoor cup is being held in Ireland. It will be a good to see black powder in use.

It will be a great podium to show Dermo and the boys that reloading is not evil. Hopefully things will be much better in 2011!

bunny shooter

AFAIK it's an Open F Class event now not black powder

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

AFAIK it's an Open F Class event now not black powder

AFAIK there will be both as per my convo today with you know who
That was my understanding from my conversation anyway.

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

AFAIK there will be both as per my convo today with you know who
That was my understanding from my conversation anyway.

Where did I say there wasn't going to be black powder shooting :rolleyes:

For someone as educated as you claim to be your inability to comprehend simple English is astounding

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Where did I say there wasn't going to be black powder shooting :rolleyes:

For someone as educated as you claim to be your inability to comprehend simple English is astounding

An dtuigeann túsa?Níl a fhios agam.
Cheap me go bhfuíl tusa duinne glíc; Tá na ballaí ag éisteacht!

ceart go leor mo Chara??

Grizzly 45

It will be a great podium to show Dermo and the boys that reloading is not evil. Hopefully things will be much better in 2011!

[/QUOTE]
Sure ! He might even take up pistol shooting too! If he would deem to set foot in Midlands.And I'm going to win the national,Euro millons and the Californian powerball lotto[Makes Euromillions ,and national lottery look like spare change.:eek:] all in one Sat night too!:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sure ! He might even take up pistol shooting too! If he would deem to set foot in Midlands.And I'm going to win the national,Euro millons and the Californian powerball lotto[Makes Euromillions ,and national lottery look like spare change.:eek:] all in one Sat night too!:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Water can wear down mountains over time.
If he see's a load of Americans with bulging wallets he might change his tune.

Keep the faith Brother....
:cool:

Grizzly 45

Or he'll start braying about "American style gun culture":rolleyes::rolleyes: To the media who now doubt WOULD be there to record and pervert the event.

{Think RISE here.15 secs to RISE and 2thousand people.1 minute to 8 scruffy antis who claim to have the majority of support in Ireland .:rolleyes: RTE objective reporting how are ye???}

Lets face it;finding Dermo down at Midlands is about as likely as Hitler visiting a Synagouge! Got to know when you are wasting your time and effort.;)

Tackleberrywho

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Or he'll start braying about "American style gun culture":rolleyes::rolleyes: To the media who now doubt WOULD be there to record and pervert the event.

{Think RISE here.15 secs to RISE and 2thousand people.1 minute to 8 scruffy antis who claim to have the majority of support in Ireland .:rolleyes: RTE objective reporting how are ye???}

Lets face it;finding Dermo down at Midlands is about as likely as Hitler visiting a Synagouge! Got to know when you are wasting your time and effort.;)

I bet you €50 I'll get him there in 2010

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

An dtuigeann túsa?Níl a fhios agam.
Cheap me go bhfuíl tusa duinne glíc; Tá na ballaí ag éisteacht!

ceart go leor mo Chara??

Póg mo thóin!

Sparks

Don't suppose anyone might think that Dermot's boss is a more likely candidate to show up as the VIP official, since it'll be only a short drive from his home town?

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Póg mo thóin!

I love you too Bunny, You and your Asál

Is fearr Gaeilge briste,
ná Bearla clíste.:D

back to reloading thread please.
Collect your brass and if all things go well the MAN will let us use it in 2011.
So hoult yer whist

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Don't suppose anyone might think that Dermot's boss is a more likely candidate to show up as the VIP official, since it'll be only a short drive from his home town?

Wouldn't be his first time doing it :cool:

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Wouldn't be his first time doing it :cool:

+1

He is very proud of the Boys in MNSCI

bunny shooter

dCorbus wrote: »

Ah, yes, but you see, Northern Ireland is a different jurisdiction, in case no one has noticed.:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

And re-loading is allowed there, same as across the other bits of the UK (the real bits on the other side of the sea:rolleyes:;)).

But bear in mind that whilst you can re-load / handload in the UK, you can't shoot any type of pistol or handgun, rimfire or centrefire, .22 or otherwise, (except in NI oddly enough).

So, which privileges / rights would we like to swap?;)

(Please note: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D)

I am posting this as a favor to a contributor from another froum I frequent http://vcrai.com/

This reply was posted on that forum from a contributor in the UK. Apparently he has tried to sign up here but his requests have been ignored?

_________________________________________________________________
Well, now, for Mr Corbus' information, we DO have handguns on mainland UK, as well as on the Isle of Man [a Crown Dependency, and .22 rimfire only] as well as The Channel Islands [anything at all].

As most of you know, I live over here for much of the year, and I have a Ruger Old Army .44" BP revolver and a second-issue Colt Walker, also in .44". I also have a .357 Magnum Ruger Super Redhawk with a 14" barrel and 2-7 Burris scope. True, it has a sticky-out thing on the butt that makes it a bit unwieldly to stick in your pocket - at 24.1" overall that was never going to be easy, but I'd bet that anyone on THIS forum would recognise it has a [rather large] handgun.

As anyone who has seen Gunmart magazine will know, ANY kind of BP handgun [excepting cartridge-firing] are to be found on most any range here, and the Browning Buckmark pistol/carbine looks remarkably like a long-barrelled Browning Buckmark pistol. We can also shoot the exotic, but fully permitted, single-shot Free pistol as seen in international .22 competition, although they are rare.

We are also allowed to own centre-fire handguns under the provisions of another form of licence called a Section 5 something or other. Having commanded tri-national troops in a combat zone, I'm not about to lower myself to the position of being allowed to shoot my own gun under the supervision of a spotty-faced gossoon, so that way will not be mine, I'm afraid.

So Mr Corbus is wrong, and I'd like to think that some kind soul here will put him right, even if it means him making some sort of contact with me, eventually.

TIA

tac
________________________________________________________________



DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER :P

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

Apparently he has tried to sign up here but his requests have been ignored?

Nothing to do with the mods here...

Bananaman

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Water can wear down mountains over time.
If he see's a load of Americans with bulging wallets he might change his tune.

I'm afraid that approach has been tried and failed.

It was pointed out to the Minister/DOJ/Justice Committee/Dail & Seanad the millions in local revenue that would be achieved had we been allowed to continue to compete in IPSC Handgun and eventually brought the European Championships (~500 competitors + companions) or perhaps even the World Championships (~1000 competitors + companions), here. On a par with or even exceeding the Ryder Cup at least. This year Serbia host the European Championships and next year Greece host the World Championships - no reason Ireland could not have.

We were already well progressed in developing the facilities - at zero expense to the taxpayer - but we were told that the Government is not in the business of developing the sports and potential boosts for tourism or the economy are not a factor in any decision making process.

I hope that the tune has changed (they did have it in for IPSC and were not listening to anything anyone told them) and for F-Class that they do indeed take into account the prestige of the event (Creedmoor Cup) and the potential tourist dollar it brings.

Definitely focus on getting his boss to attend as Dermo is wearing a t-shirt that says 'the lady is not for turning'

And for gods sake stop listening to 'I head from a fella' or 'the man himself told me' and other such rubbish.

B'Man

kay 9

What's the penalty or jail time for a lad caught handloading at the moment? There's quite a few lads at it and have never been caught. The way the price of ammo is goin tis gonna be as popular as green diesel soon...:rolleyes: Not insinuating that I even considered ever doing it;)

thedragon

There wouldnt be any jail time for loading your own. As soon as you start loading your own your the criminal and the law revolves around the criminal in this country. Jail time, ya must be joking.

Tackleberrywho

kay 9 wrote: »

What's the penalty or jail time for a lad caught handloading at the moment? There's quite a few lads at it and have never been caught. The way the price of ammo is goin tis gonna be as popular as green diesel soon...:rolleyes: Not insinuating that I even considered ever doing it;)

It would depend what you were charged with, offences against the state act 1980, terrorism, public endangerment etc the list goes on

So I would would not even dream of it.
The more you have, the more you have to lose.
Anybody who flouts the law must be prepared to take the consequences.

I drive a diesel and would never consider green, maybe Biofuel as it is legit, but anything else is foolish.

dCorbus

Thanks bunnyshooter for posting that yesterday.

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER

Why not!?

Third party posting's on another web forum not related to this site, quoting my post from over a fortnight ago.....Come on, bunny....!

Anyhow, I've debated how and whether to respond to your post yesterday - and seeing as you've gone to the trouble to post it, the least I can do, in all fairness, is to respond and hopefully address some of the issues raised.

Firstly, I'm delighted to hear that my meanderings have such a wide and international readership (:rolleyes:), but am rather surprised that anyone would be so exercised by postings to bring up, on another forum entirely, some very brief comments made by me nearly two-and-a-half weeks ago! The phrase "GAFL" springs to mind TBH.:D

Obviously, the mysterious reader / poster you mention failed to notice the icons/smilies (quite a number of which were used by me in the post referred to) - For the purposes of clarity and by way of explanation, this:

(Please note: )

Means what? Yes, 5 Sarcasm Smilies plus 1 Big Grin.
It would appear that bunnyshooter's mate neglected to notice this.

Right, back to the "nub of the issue":

To quote myself:

But bear in mind that whilst you can re-load / handload in the UK, you can't shoot any type of pistol or handgun, rimfire or centrefire, .22 or otherwise

Which part of this statement is wrong?
Unless the newly-elected Conservative / LibDem Government have repealed the notorious Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) No. 2 Act 1997 since coming to power recently, all types of "pistol or handgun, rimfire or centrefire, .22 or otherwise" remain prohibited in the UK.

If you again, carefully, read my previous post on this, you will see that I specifically refer to pistols and handguns, rimfire or centrefire - I do not mention historic, replica, or black-powder non-cartridge firearms. So what the poster has to say about black-powder etc. is irrelevant to what I posted.

I was also referring to the so-called "mainland" UK (i.e. the Great Britain bit of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) - The poster should be aware, obviously coming from that country, that neither the Isle of Man nor the Channel Islands are part of the UK. And I wasn't referring to them at all in my post.

Ruger Old Army .44" BP revolver and a second-issue Colt Walker, also in .44"

That's nice, but again, these are black-powder revolvers and are not rimfire or centrefire pistols or handguns, which I was referring to.

I also have a .357 Magnum Ruger Super Redhawk with a 14" barrel and 2-7 Burris scope. True, it has a sticky-out thing on the butt that makes it a bit unwieldly to stick in your pocket - at 24.1" overall

AFAIK, that is classed as a "rifle" under the UK legislation and is licenced as such.

I'd bet that anyone on THIS forum would recognise it has a [rather large] handgun.

Hmmmmm.....TBH I wouldn't!
14inch Barrel?
24.1inch Overall Length?

Is this licenced as a "short arm", i.e. pistol or handgun?
I'd rather suspect not - and would be surprised if this wasn't licenced in the UK as a rifle.

the Browning Buckmark pistol/carbine looks remarkably like a long-barrelled Browning Buckmark pistol.

It may look "remarkably like" a long-barrelled Buckmark pistol - But it isn't a Buckmark pistol.

Although, if the poster had been reading GunMart recently, they might have seen that some licensing authorities in the UK have recently deemed this Buckmark carbine to actually be a pistol, and not a rifle, and as such have refused to licence it. I'd respectfully suggest that the poster reads all the way through GunMart and not just the Henry Krank ad's!:D

Having commanded tri-national troops in a combat zone

Not sure what this is supposed to mean or imply?
What are a tri-national troops? Do you not mean the UK/HM Armed Forces or the Crown Forces, as they're often referred to?

And, my congratulations to you for holding the Queens Commission, Sir, but frankly, I'm not sure if this supposed to impress us or what? In a combat situation, I would of course, defer to your greater knowledge, but on this matter, your previous rank commanding "tri-national troops" () is of little or no relevance.

So Mr Corbus is wrong

I think one will find that it's dCorbus. Although, I do like the sound of "Mr. Corbus"....Has a nice ring to it.:D

And, if one wishes to carefully re-read my previous post (which has so exercised, irritated, and annoyed some out there in interwebland), you'll find that none of what i stated is either untrue or factually incorrect. Certain people are reading far more into what I wrote than was actually stated and becoming, I have to say, over-exercised by statements and purported untruths which, frankly, were not ever stated.

I'd like to think that some kind soul here will put him right

Well, bunnyshooter has done as he was asked and we applaud him for his diligence! Well, done!;)

even if it means him making some sort of contact with me, eventually.

Although, what the hell does this mean?
Kinda scary TBH!

But we've gone waaaaayyyyyyy off topic now! Apologies!
dC out

tac foley

Finally managed to get on to the forum in person, and no longer need to ask a pal to post for me.

I'm very sorry that we seem to have gotten off to a bad start already, but I hope that we can settle our differences amicably. If not, then I'll go back where I came from, and no hard feelings.

The odd-looking revolvers we have here on mainland GB that ARE legal are called long-barrelled revolvers or long-barrelled pistols, depending on whether they are based on a revolver or a single-shot bolt or Drulov-style action. There are quite a few of both types in our club.

My lateness in responding to your post is because I've just been over in Oregon for the last month, and pay little or no attention to anything going on over this side of the water, and not having been able to participate in this forum anyhow until now, your post was the first one I read.

Sadly, because I also work in Tokyo, both my lap-tops and my desk-top are Japanese OS, and do not register the emoticons you used - I see them simply as hollow squares and therefore ignore them.

There are some fifteen Buckmark firearms in the club to which I belong - the individual interpretation of the Firearms Acts is down to the county decision-maker - six counties are represented by the ownership of this type of fiream in my club. As you note, some do allow them, and some don't.

My point about being in a position of responsiblity was made to reinforce my distaste at having to be overseen whilst shooting a more modern cartridge-firing handgun, of the type that you can have at the moment in the RoI. Without these 'safeguards' nobody is deemed safe to shoot such fearsome items on the few [seven?] ranges where they have to be stored and fired under supervision. Special permits ARE available to the very few who have the time, inclination and huge funds needed to acquire modern-style cartridge-firing handguns on mainland GB. Needless to say, I do not fit into that category, being a penurious and slightly disabled old veteran not far off pensionable age.

Let me finish up by saying that as an old fart with almost sixty years of shooting experience behind me [I began shooting at age six] I was rather hoping that I could be of some use to this forum, as I have to another Irish forum and five American-based fora.

Sadly, it seems that you are far better informed about shooting affairs both here in UK and in your own country than I could ever hope to be, and don't seem to need anything from me.

'Bye

tac

dCorbus

Thanks for your response, tacfoley.

I accept your points - and welcome you to our small, perfectly formed, but rather argumentative forum!

As an "old fart":D, your term not mine, I'd absolutely defer to your far-far-far longer experience in shooting. That goes without saying (although it does indeed need to be said sometimes) - Here to learn!

Ok, I see why the position of responsibility was mentioned - and I take your point as to why you would feel this way about having to be in some way undermined or treated in a infantile manner in order to partake in your sport.

I trust that you will also accept that I was not referring to BP, but was referring to the de-facto banning of handguns (to all intents and purposes) in the UK? Yes, there are a number of exceptions to this ban, but to many shooters in the UK this has meant a de-facto ban on handguns and pistol target shooting, except in the very few and limited circumstances allowed, which you do bring to our attention.

It's odd that we, as two shooters, are now arguing amongst ourselves about a ban which should never have been allowed into law in the UK, and god forbid that such a law should ever come to pass in Ireland (Although, signs are that we're halfway there already!:eek:)

So, I offer the olive branch which I trust you'll accept?

And welcome on board!

dC