Middle Lane Motorway Morons...

Scania580

Since the opening of the M50 recently, I have been getting increasingly worried about the standard of drivers in dublin/bordering counties.A new law was passed recently making it a pointable offence to fail to drive in the left lane,yet every day i am forced to brake and cross two lanes to overtake people that drive in the middle lane of the M50 at 40 and 50 mph. I have driven Trucks all over europe and never seen such bad drivers.What are the Gardai doing about this?????? Nothing! Thats what...:mad:

morrga

Ireland is miles behind in terms of a proper motorway usage culture. Its embarrassing.

Scania580

morrga wrote: »

Ireland is miles behind in terms of a proper motorway usage culture. Its embarrassing.

I agree 100%.But its not good enough.The gardai need to sort this out now because these idiots are causing traffic jams every morning on the M50.Espically around dundrum/tallaght.Its almost as if they think the left lane is only for trucks,busses and people leaving at the next exit

T-Square

I ride a motorbike, and I get to see the massive gaps in front of the tools who aren't over taking while in the over taking lane, and gombeens who sit in the centre lane, at 90kph, with nothing in front of them, and piles of cars behind them.

Do they not realise how thick they look? not only to the few Irish who know how to drive, but to foreigners who ask "Why do the Irish drive on the wrong side of the motorway?"

The situation is as bad as it is, due to the incompetence of the "keepers of the peace" :rolleyes: yeah the cops.

How often do you see a traffic car on the M50 at 8am or 6pm?

NEVER

lazy sods

hoodie6029

it is an absolute disgrace. I just use the left lane as much as possible, it's safer and you end up getting where you're going just a quickly.

An older gent my dad bought a car off in the UK lately said it took a generation for drivers to get used to motorway driving there.

Tefral

The guards should be using this

Failure to drive on the left hand side of the road 1 point and €60 fine

Topper Harley

The RSA should make a TV ad explaining to people how to drive properly on a motorway. They've done it for roundabouts as well as slightly different ads for seat belts, drink driving and speeding. But the principle is the same, safer road conditions.

NC27

Its a joke, I dont why but it realy pisses me off.
Last weekend I had to drive down the N4 on to the M50 then on to the N7 and then back again. Anyone who know these road will know that where the N7 and N4 meet the M50 there is 3 lanes for a few miles and then the 3 lanes on the M50.
I nearly gave myself an ulcer with my sheer frustration with the idiots, and im a usualy a laid back driver but that realy got me going.
And what made it worse was the amount of so called professional drivers eg. Taxi's, Trucks and Busses who where also in the middle lane while the far left lane was empty.

jaffa20

Topper Harley wrote: »

They've done it for roundabouts

...and it hasn't made a blind bit of difference.

cml387

I don't drive on the M50 that often,but I have seen this middle lane behaviour.
My theory FWIW is that there are so many junctions with heavy traffic enetring the motorway that traffic is being filtered into the middle lane by default.
I would think that as you get towards Tallaght that the traffic finds it's natural pattern again.

NC27

cml387 wrote: »

I don't drive on the M50 that often,but I have seen this middle lane behaviour.
My theory FWIW is that there are so many junctions with heavy traffic enetring the motorway that traffic is being filtered into the middle lane by default.
I would think that as you get towards Tallaght that the traffic finds it's natural pattern again.

I get your point that it will happen with heavy traffic entering and exiting during rush hour.

But even in the dead of the night you will still find people in the middle or even worse the far right lane donig 80kph when there is not a sinner in sight.
A few times when driving on the M50 and it would be dead, I would be traveling along at 100kph in the left lane when I would come across someone doing 80 or so kph in the far right lane.
Now i would be braking the law if I passed them on the inside even though there would be a lane between us, so what I should do is cross from the far left lane, across the empty middle lane, and into the far right lane and sit there till they move out of my way.

T-Square

NC27 wrote: »

I get your point that it will happen with heavy traffic entering and exiting during rush hour.

But even in the dead of the night you will still find people in the middle or even worse the far right lane doing 80kph when there is not a sinner in sight.
A few times when driving on the M50 and it would be dead, I would be traveling along at 100kph in the left lane when I would come across someone doing 80 or so kph in the far right lane.
Now i would be braking the law if I passed them on the inside even though there would be a lane between us, so what I should do is cross from the far left lane, across the empty middle lane, and into the far right lane and sit there till they move out of my way.

It should be perfectly safe to drive at 100kph in the left most lane,
and safely merge with on coming traffic that has also accelerated up to 100kph, like a zipper.

But not in this country, the t1ts merge at 50kph!!!

Gitb1

Scania580 wrote: »

.Its almost as if they think the left lane is only for trucks,busses and people leaving at the next exit

I'm guilty of this one. I know I should always keep left but if I was to do that Id be constantly weaving in and out of the first and second lane.

During the day I just stick to the speed limit in the middle lane and overtake if I have to, at night however I do keep left because the road is less congested

Absurdum

on the plus side, it means there's a nice new empty lane for law-breakers like me to use all to ourselves

McSpud

N7 Naas road is the worst I see. I would say less than 5% of cars drive in the inside lane. Anytime I have used can easily drive 60-65mph in the inside lane as no traffic to dodge. Only the odd time would have to move into the middle lane to pass...

bada_bing

that really does my head in, especially with the frigging synchronised driving where you can't really overtake at all cos the gombeens in the outer 2 lanes are more or less doing the same speed as each other. I often find myself driving in the first lane flying ahead of others in the outer 2 lanes.

pfm

jaffa20 wrote: »

...and it hasn't made a blind bit of difference.

True but the councils, NRA or whoever have to take a lot of the blame by screwing with the normal roundabout rules by overriding them with crazy roundabout lane markings.

e.g. if you are travelling from IKEA to the Ballymun roundabout, the lane markings allow you to go the second or third roundabout exits from both approach lanes so people get used to the idea of taking the third roundabout exit from the left approach lane. Obviously if someone in the right approach lane wants to take the 2nd exit at the same time you get a collision. Madness!

pfm

bada_bing wrote: »

I often find myself driving in the first lane flying ahead of others in the outer 2 lanes.

Which is illegal...........but I feel your pain.

bada_bing

pfm wrote: »

Which is illegal...........but I feel your pain.

to be honest i did not know that was illegal. so even if i am driving at/below the speed limit and am overtaking them in the first lane, is that still illegal??

what is the reasoning for that?? i'm curious.

bladebrew

as said above, driving on the inside lane on the m50 would drive you mad,i live in cork (where driving is worse) so i wouldnt be on it everyday but when im in the left lane i will eventually end up behind a truck doing 90km/h (its limit) and im doing 100km/h so i have to overtake it, then dodge people "merging" then overtake another truck,

just limit trucks to 100km/h thats most of the problem solved,

pfm

bada_bing wrote: »

to be honest i did not know that was illegal. so even if i am driving at/below the speed limit and am overtaking them in the first lane, is that still illegal??

what is the reasoning for that?? i'm curious.

Yes, the only time it's legal to undertake is where you're in two lanes of heavy/slow moving traffic e.g. this would happen frequently somewhere like the Stillorgan dual carriageway

I remember when I lived in Australia there were always road signs saying "Keep left unless overtaking". We could do with some of that here.

freighter

I cant understand the naas road. If their was 40 lanes on it the same thing would happen. I stay behind the trucks you normally make better time

testarossa40

Anybody else here get the AA Newsletter email? Replied once asking the AA to do more to drum up awareness and publicity on correct Motorway driving etiquette. Conor Faughan replied thus:
"Thanks for your feedback. Driving standards certainly need to improve and the AA will be doing whatever it can to help. At least road deaths are falling."

My "contained" reply asking "Yes, but what about your plans to raise national awareness of correct motorway driving?" went... Unanswered...

And did anyone here complete the April AA Motorists' Panel Survey? It focussed on "top ten most common ‘bad behaviours’ witnessed on the roads daily". Results here:
http://www.aaireland.ie/publicaffairs/press-centre/driving-sins.aspx

"Poor Lane Discipline" ranked "only" no.5 - which gives pause for thought in itself - but on not one single interview that Conor Faughan gave the day the results were published did he mention it as an issue all.

My point is that those supposedly professional agencies that are responsible for/can influence this very issue do not see this as an issue deserving any priority at all. I've written to the AA/NRA/RSA/DOE/DOT and apart from the AA, the RSA replied stating they already have useful videos posted on their website... Goodbye.

Muppets the lot of them.

R.O.R

Gitb1 wrote: »

I'm guilty of this one. I know I should always keep left but if I was to do that Id be constantly weaving in and out of the first and second lane.

During the day I just stick to the speed limit in the middle lane and overtake if I have to, at night however I do keep left because the road is less congested

If you can't use the 1st and second lanes properly you either need to learn to drive properly, or just stay off the motorway and leave it to those of us who can drive properly on it.

If you know what you are supposed to do, but don't do it then you are even worse than the rest of the muppets in my opinion.

Topper Harley

To be fair to them, while improper lane usage is infuriating and can cause accidents, it's not the most dangerous thing on the road. Someone not indicating on a roundabout is probably more likely to cause a more serious collision, so they have to prioritise, but they could still be doing more than they are.

Topper Harley

testarossa40 wrote: »

Anybody else here get the AA Newsletter email? Replied once asking the AA to do more to drum up awareness and publicity on correct Motorway driving etiquette. Conor Faughan replied thus:
"Thanks for your feedback. Driving standards certainly need to improve and the AA will be doing whatever it can to help. At least road deaths are falling."

My "contained" reply asking "Yes, but what about your plans to raise national awareness of correct motorway driving?" went... Unanswered...

And did anyone here complete the April AA Motorists' Panel Survey? It focussed on "top ten most common ‘bad behaviours’ witnessed on the roads daily". Results here:
http://www.aaireland.ie/publicaffairs/press-centre/driving-sins.aspx

"Poor Lane Discipline" ranked "only" no.5 - which gives pause for thought in itself - but on not one single interview that Conor Faughan gave the day the results were published did he mention it as an issue all.

My point is that those supposedly professional agencies that are responsible for/can influence this very issue do not see this as an issue deserving any priority at all. I've written to the AA/NRA/RSA/DOE/DOT and apart from the AA, the RSA replied stating they already have useful videos posted on their website... Goodbye.

Muppets the lot of them.

To be fair to them, while improper lane usage is infuriating and can cause accidents, it's not the most dangerous thing on the road. Someone not indicating on a roundabout is probably more likely to cause a more serious collision, so they have to prioritise, but they could still be doing more than they are.

cml387

If I may make another observation,from experience.
I never encounter slow drivers in the overtaking lane on my daily commute down the M8 from Cahir to Fermoy.
The M50 I would guess is being used by Mr and Mrs Slow in their daily drive to the shops or to see Mr/Mrs Extra-Slow,or pick up the baby Slows from the school or creche.
Down here in the sticks there are alternative roads to use for this purpose.

Unfortunately the M50 has become the funnel for all traffc of all types to move around the city.

Can somebody who has driven in LA or similar confirm as I suspect that traffic undertakes and overtakes on their freeways,and moves more freely as a result.

R.O.R

It's strange, on the M2 you'll rarely get people sitting in the outside lane, but the M1 is full of it all times of the day - until you get north of the Naul and it gets much better.

Whenever I've driven the N3, N4, M8 they've always been mainly ok, but the N7 is just as bad as the M50 and M1.

marious

the best thing (or maybe the worst) that if you'll try to drive properly, I mean overtake and come back to left lane, other drivers will look at you as an 1d1ot and some might even think about you as a boy racer of some sort "look at this fella, hes mad, changing lanes all the time instead of using middle one" the point is that people have no idea how to use 2 lanes not mention 3 or more

somebody mentioned motorway behavior... well... its bad out there

Gitb1

R.O.R wrote: »

If you can't use the 1st and second lanes properly you either need to learn to drive properly, or just stay off the motorway and leave it to those of us who can drive properly on it.

If you know what you are supposed to do, but don't do it then you are even worse than the rest of the muppets in my opinion.

Thanks :rolleyes:

So are you saying its safer/better for me to change lanes and pull in and out of gaps maybe 1-2 car length in between busses and trucks limited to 80 km/h constantly speeding up to overtake and then braking on the carriageway to merge back between two trucks than it is to move over to the middle lane and pass them all at a constant speed?

corktina

Gitb1 wrote: »

I'm guilty of this one. I know I should always keep left but if I was to do that Id be constantly weaving in and out of the first and second lane.

During the day I just stick to the speed limit in the middle lane and overtake if I have to, at night however I do keep left because the road is less congested

you should try it as it would be great practice and would imporve your skills no end.
Its not hard, in the UK on the M4 or M25 around Heathrow which really is busy, most people do it all the time so why cant you do it on the M50 here? Laziness I think and contempt for your fellow drivers in the case of many drivers..

Padraig Mor

Was driving on the Naas road the other week (3 lanes) and moved into the left lane to drive. My passenger's response: "what are you doing in this lane?".:rolleyes:

cml387

Gitb1 wrote: »

Thanks :rolleyes:

So are you saying its safer/better for me to change lanes and pull in and out of gaps maybe 1-2 car length in between busses and trucks limited to 80 km/h constantly speeding up to overtake and then braking on the carriageway to merge back between two trucks than it is to move over to the middle lane and pass them all at a constant speed?

Gitb I think you make my point and I thik you were misunderstood.
Constant lane changing is dangerous and you are quite right.
As long as you maintain a suitable speed,and are aware of traffic behind you,you can stay in the middle lane.
Anticipation is everything, so if you need to exit the motorway you need to plan ahead,again aware of traffic behind you.

T-Square

Maybe its a vocabulary issue.

It isn't etiquette it's called
the rules of the road.

The cops need to get off their lazy a$$es

AugustusMinimus

cml387 wrote: »

Gitb I think you make my point and I thik you were misunderstood.
Constant lane changing is dangerous and you are quite right.
As long as you maintain a suitable speed,and are aware of traffic behind you,you can stay in the middle lane.
Anticipation is everything, so if you need to exit the motorway you need to plan ahead,again aware of traffic behind you.

Completely agree. Constant 2 lane changing to overtake an idiot in the middle lane is far more dangerous than undertaking.

Cause insane traffic too.

Cuddlesworth

T-Square wrote: »

Maybe its a vocabulary issue.

It isn't etiquette it's called
the rules of the road.

The cops need to get off their lazy a$$es

I think its doable.

Large amount of resources needed though. You have the risks of pulling people over on a motorway, 100,000 daily motorway users(estimated) and the mileage and fuel costs of having a car/bike going up and down.

jimmycrackcorm

Why not simply allow undertaking on the motorway? After all people are all too aware of the need to look in the mirror already when changing lanes. It's no less risky because there is little danger of muffled lane hoggers suddenly moving left seeing as they won't obey the law anyway.

There is also precedent. Every time I leave the to join the N4 west I am undertaken by faster away bound traffic and have to ease in left. This isn't the slower traffic in the right either being a free flow junction.

Tefral

pfm wrote: »

Which is illegal...........but I feel your pain.

Its not illegal. If he was in the far most left lane the whole time, and the traffic in the overtaking lanes were going slowly than him, then he is perfectly entitled to be travelling faster than them in the "slow lane" (I hate calling it that as it isnt but for the sake of clarity here its easier to say it)

What he is not allowed do is move from the middle or outer lane to the inside lane to essentially "undertake" the car in front.

Topper Harley

cronin_j wrote: »

Its not illegal. If he was in the far most left lane the whole time, and the traffic in the overtaking lanes were going slowly than him, then he is perfectly entitled to be travelling faster than them in the "slow lane" (I hate calling it that as it isnt but for the sake of clarity here its easier to say it)

What he is not allowed do is move from the middle or outer lane to the inside lane to essentially "undertake" the car in front.

I always wondered about that. Is that definitely the way it is in the eyes of the law though?

Tefral

Topper Harley wrote: »

I always wondered about that. Is that definitely the way it is in the eyes of the law though?

Yep, ive gone by marked and unmarked Garda cars on the inside lane. Now i know the road traffic act doesnt apply to them and they could have been tailing someone, but they would have stopped me if i was in the wrong and i drive a Honda Integra Type R, thats enough for them to stop me.

Pg. 45 on the rules of the road state:

You may overtake on the left when:

- You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved
out and signalled that they intend to turn right.

- You have signalled that you intend to turn left.

- Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is
moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane

slimjimmc

cronin_j wrote: »

Its not illegal. If he was in the far most left lane the whole time, and the traffic in the overtaking lanes were going slowly than him, then he is perfectly entitled to be travelling faster than them in the "slow lane" (I hate calling it that as it isnt but for the sake of clarity here its easier to say it)

What he is not allowed do is move from the middle or outer lane to the inside lane to essentially "undertake" the car in front.

Road Traffic Act 1997

(5) A driver may only overtake on the left—
.......
( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

The devil is in the detail :"slow moving traffic". No one has yet found a legal definition for 'slow' or for 'overtaking' so it's up to the judge to, well, judge. I doubt he would consider driving down the driving lane at 120kph while the overtaking lane is moving at 100kph to be slow.

cronin_j wrote: »

Yep, ive gone by marked and unmarked Garda cars on the inside lane. Now i know the road traffic act doesnt apply to them and they could have been tailing someone, but they would have stopped me if i was in the wrong and i drive a Honda Integra Type R, thats enough for them to stop me.

I sometimes think one could be swigging a bottle of JD with a splif hanging from the corner of your mouth and still not get pulled over, especially in heavy traffic or when there's a shift change coming up.

Tefral

I had a discussion about this with "niceguyalways" a traffic corps member about this recently.

He said he'd be more preocupied with nabbing the slow ass in the overtaking lanes than those in the left.

The devil is in the detail :"slow moving traffic". No one has yet found a legal definition for 'slow' or for 'overtaking' so it's up to the judge to, well, judge. I doubt he would consider driving down the driving lane at 120kph while the overtaking lane is moving at 100kph to be slow.

I get what your saying, but surely i shouldnt slap on the brakes doing 80km for arguments sake in a 120km just because im going to "Overtake" a car in the slower lane.

**** it, this is wrecking my head. This whole thing must be unique to Ireland because in other countries ive driven in ive never seen this...

Bottom line is most Irish drivers are morons

slimjimmc

cronin_j wrote: »

I had a discussion about this with "niceguyalways" a traffic corps member about this recently.

He said he'd be more preocupied with nabbing the slow ass in the overtaking lanes than those in the left.

It's usually the greater of two evils all right, depending on circumstances.

cronin_j wrote: »

I get what your saying, but surely i shouldnt slap on the brakes doing 80km for arguments sake in a 120km just because im going to "Overtake" a car in the slower lane.

If your speed difference is significant I most certainly do hope that you would slow down (smoothly) so that at least a) you're visible in the driver's left mirror for a reasonable length of time for him to notice you, b) he has time to judge the speed difference if he sees you and c) you have time to react safely if he doesn't see you and started to move back to the left. Once you're past you can resume crusing speed after what's in reality only a minor inconvenience.

cronin_j wrote: »

**** it, this is wrecking my head. This whole thing must be unique to Ireland because in other countries ive driven in ive never seen this...

Bottom line is most Irish drivers are morons

I agree with that adjective but only for those who know what they're at. The rest probably don't even know they're doing wrong as the training and licencing system is wholely inadequate, as is enforcement.

Padraig Mor

cronin_j wrote: »

Yep, ive gone by marked and unmarked Garda cars on the inside lane. Now i know the road traffic act doesnt apply to them and they could have been tailing someone, but they would have stopped me if i was in the wrong and i drive a Honda Integra Type R, thats enough for them to stop me.
:

Guess you've been lucky. I've been done for it. Passing on the left at 'normal' speeds is illegal - no matter what the idiot in the overtaking lane is doing.

E39MSport

Scania580 wrote: »

Since the opening of the M50 recently, I have been getting increasingly worried about the standard of drivers in dublin/bordering counties.A new law was passed recently making it a pointable offence to fail to drive in the left lane,yet every day i am forced to brake and cross two lanes to overtake people that drive in the middle lane of the M50 at 40 and 50 mph. I have driven Trucks all over europe and never seen such bad drivers.What are the Gardai doing about this?????? Nothing! Thats what...:mad:

Good point.
No offence but I've driven all over Europe and never such bad Truck driving on motorways than here. I assume you're not excluding your fellow truckers from your rant....
Sadly, the phenomenon is not limited to Dublin and environs, it's an Irish thing.

I wonder is it a matter of pure ignorance or do people just not give a damn about their fellow road users? I fear it's the latter.

On the subject of trucks and the left lane. I was mortified once again by an Irish registered vehicle on a UK road a few weeks ago.
Driving from London to Holyhead and almost at my destination. On the A55 near Holyhead approached a car travelling at about 50mph in the left most lane (2 lane carriageway).
A wexford registered vehicle towing a load with a well known wexford based haulier's logo on the back was tailgating the vehicle.
The Truck driver made several aborted mock passes then fell back in at very close range behind the no doubt terrified driver.
What a fcoking moron.
Presumably the driver of the car was travelling too slow for the Truck driver who obviously owns the road.

That's not aimed at truck drivers Scania850. I've seen some choice driving by our fellow country men and women on foreign roads and reported same on here.

omega man

I have noticed recently (M50) that many middle lane drivers are pulling in after i have overtaken them and moved across into the inside lane myself. Follow the lead i guess so perhaps some people are 'getting it' now.

One guy i flashed (in pure frustration) took major offence and drove after me to tell me off. He was red with rage and going f*cking ballistic in the car. Would love to have heard his point of view on the matter!

Cookie_Monster

rules of road wrote:

- Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane

there is no reference to 3 lanes in this though. So what if traffic in the middle lane is moving faster than the right hand lane.

Nit picking I know but clearly the rules have not been updated to allow for 3 lane roads.

stesaurus

I blame those damn Clover adverts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YF40ECLmRQ

pfm

cronin_j wrote: »

Its not illegal. If he was in the far most left lane the whole time, and the traffic in the overtaking lanes were going slowly than him, then he is perfectly entitled to be travelling faster than them in the "slow lane" (I hate calling it that as it isnt but for the sake of clarity here its easier to say it)

What he is not allowed do is move from the middle or outer lane to the inside lane to essentially "undertake" the car in front.

It is illegal in the scenario being discussed as the quotes from the rules of the road above show.


I think another problem is that people have an attitude "Well I'm doing the speed limit so I'm entitled to be in the "fast lane" regardless of what's going on around me"

Zubeneschamali

R.O.R wrote: »

Whenever I've driven the N3, N4, M8 they've always been mainly ok

I drive the M4/M6 daily, and it's very noticeable on Friday evenings, especially at long weekends or holidays, when all the overtaking-lane hoggers spill out from the M50 to head down the country.

I often see a case where some idiot is cruising in the overtaking lane for no reason, I come up in the driving lane, pull out behind him, he pulls in, I pass and pull in, and in my mirrors I see him pull back out into the overtaking lane again!

ToxicPaddy

Last Sunday I was driving back to Dublin, passing Naas I come across a line of traffic, approx 20 cars all sitting in the middle lane doing around €80, no traffic at all on the inside (left lane) no traffic on the outside lane.. like why???

Made no sense whatsoever..

I started over taking, the last car and as I was driving by, each person seemed to be in a complete daze oblivious to what they were doing.. all very strange..

As soon as I passed the last car I pulled over to the left lane again and hoping they might see how to drive properly.. nope.. they all stayed in the middle lane.. idiots!!! :rolleyes: