What does Panda do with recyclables?

dynamick

Panda waste collects my recyclables in a green bin. They accept paper, all types of plastic and all colours of glass in the same bin. Surely some of these plastics are not recyclable. And I thought glass had to be colour separated for recycling.

It makes me suspect it is all going on a ship to china to be thrown on a heap. Does anyone know what the story is?

djpbarry

dynamick wrote: »

Panda waste collects my recyclables in a green bin. They accept paper, all types of plastic and all colours of glass in the same bin. Surely some of these plastics are not recyclable. And I thought glass had to be colour separated for recycling.

It makes me suspect it is all going on a ship to china to be thrown on a heap. Does anyone know what the story is?

That would be a question for Panda. However, given that Green Bin collections are not charged 'per lift', shipping all your recyclables off to China for landfilling doesn't seem to me like a terribly sound business model.

jacaranda

dynamick wrote: »

Panda waste collects my recyclables in a green bin. They accept paper, all types of plastic and all colours of glass in the same bin. Surely some of these plastics are not recyclable. And I thought glass had to be colour separated for recycling.

It makes me suspect it is all going on a ship to china to be thrown on a heap. Does anyone know what the story is?

I've watched our garbage men take away our garbage, and our green bins and non green bins all get chucked into the back of a big truck, which then has a big compacte which compacts is all together into the back of the truck.

I asked what are called the operatives where it all goes and they say it all goes into landfill.

djpbarry

jacaranda wrote: »

I asked what are called the operatives where it all goes and they say it all goes into landfill.

And the waste management company have confirmed this? Have you raised the issue with your local authority or management company?

Thoushaltnot

Yeah, I'm surprised. I though putting glass in with other recyclables was a big no-no. Glass would shatter and the shards would get everywhere, including pulp paper (you won't want a nasty surprise when you wipe with recycled bog roll).

Are you sure it was glass that had to be seperated by colour? People near me have to separate their plastics by colour - I think clear is fine but black/blue pallet wrap is not.

djpbarry

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Yeah, I'm surprised. I though putting glass in with other recyclables was a big no-no. Glass would shatter and the shards would get everywhere...

Glass can be relatively easily separated from other recyclables by weight (in an automated sorting facility, that is).

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Are you sure it was glass that had to be seperated by colour?

There used to be separate glass banks in my building for different colour glass, but now we have just the one. Perhaps it's cheaper to sort it at the collection centre.

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

Glass can be relatively easily separated from other recyclables by weight (in an automated sorting facility, that is).
There used to be separate glass banks in my building for different colour glass, but now we have just the one. Perhaps it's cheaper to sort it at the collection centre.

From my experience (dealing with the glass recycling industry some years ago) if the glass is mixed up there's only one place it's going - a hole in the ground! They are/were absolutely insistent on careful colour sorting when I was involved but maybe that has all changed but I doubt it.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

From my experience (dealing with the glass recycling industry some years ago) if the glass is mixed up there's only one place it's going - a hole in the ground! They are/were absolutely insistent on careful colour sorting when I was involved but maybe that has all changed but I doubt it.

As far as I am aware, glass is sorted by hand and will continue to be for the foreseeable future (although machine vision could probably be used to separate different colours automatically). I'm guessing recycling facilities have decided that people are not terribly good at separating their waste properly (plenty of evidence of this in my building) and have taken it upon themselves to manage this aspect of the operation.

dynamick

In general, how does a consumer check that his waste company is correctly handling his waste? If I pay a man with a van to take my waste away for cheap and he fly tips it all in a field, I imagine I am in trouble. Is there a government body like the EPA that licences waste firms and ensures that they are correctly disposing of rubbish?

dudara

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm guessing recycling facilities have decided that people are not terribly good at separating their waste properly (plenty of evidence of this in my building) and have taken it upon themselves to manage this aspect of the operation.

I'd say that this a major factor. In my experience, most people cannot grasp the concept of what should go into each recycling bin. So I'd say companies were doing an awful lot of resorting anyway.

zg3409

Mixed colour glass is exported from Wicklow harbour for use on roads in the UK. From my understanding we create more waste glass in Ireland then we have a need to re-cycle and re-use. So instead they use it in the sub layers of road construction. Greenstar have a seperate bin for glass only (blue in colour) but you can put in any colour glass. Most recycling centres still ask people to sort colours so I assume the sorted type are re-made into glass.

Regarding what can and cannot be recycled most recycling centres have a detailed list of what they would like. I think recycling companies then first sort by hand and dump any types of plastic that arn't suitable etc.

I am sure a large percentage of recyclables end up dumped such as pizza delivery carboard boxes which have touch food and they dont take wet cardboard for some reason.

http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/Environment/Waste/RecyclingCentres.aspx

From the webiste:
'Clean' Materials accepted FREE OF CHARGE:
Cardboard, Plastic Bottles And Plastic Wrapping, Glass Packaging, Drink Cans, Steel Packaging, Milk and Drink Cartons (tetrapaks), Newspapers And Magazines, Office Papers, Batteries (Incl. Car Batteries), Used Electrical Goods, Fluorescent Tubes And Light Bulbs, Clothing And Textiles, Books, Stamps, Old Cds, Old Phones, Phone Books, Greeting Cards, Diaries, Calendars, Wrapping Paper, old spectacle frames. White polystyrene packaging is accepted at Arklow, Bray and The Murrough.

Naturally wheelie bins dont take light bulbs etc.

djpbarry

dynamick wrote: »

In general, how does a consumer check that his waste company is correctly handling his waste?

I'm not sure what the procedure is, but I would say a good starting point would be contacting the company in question - they may even invite you to take a look at their facility if you're really that interested. If after that you're not satisfied, I would suggest contacting the Environmental Protection Agency, as they are responsbile for the enforcement of 'environmental legislation'.

Capt'n Midnight

zg3409 wrote: »

Mixed colour glass is exported from Wicklow harbour for use on roads in the UK. From my understanding we create more waste glass in Ireland then we have a need to re-cycle and re-use.

Both ourselves and the UK import a lot of green bottle, usually wine and there is very little reuse. hence the use in roads. Does any large volume of glass get manufactured in Ireland ?

PeteHeat

I think the glass bottle factory (now a big building site) used to recycle the glass, AFAIK the Quinn factory is the only real glass recycling plant in Ireland.

All companies removing waste must be licenced they don't have to own a facility but must have access to one, they should have their licence number clearly displayed on advertising etc.

I know they can be checked online just not sure which web site.

Poochie05

Companies collecting waste must have a waste collection permit from the local authority in whose area they are collecting, so you should check with the environment section of your county council to enquire whether the company has a permit. The conditions of that permit will specify what they can or cannot do with that waste. Some councils have these permits available to view on their websites.

dunsandin

I really like the huge ejector trailer units heading into our local dump with "Caring for our environment" emblazoned on their sides. "Caring" in as much as? Landfilling neatly? A lot of the recycling industry as well as the waste industry seems to rely on a fair degree of spin.

djpbarry

dunsandin wrote: »

I really like the huge ejector trailer units heading into our local dump with "Caring for our environment" emblazoned on their sides. "Caring" in as much as? Landfilling neatly? A lot of the recycling industry as well as the waste industry seems to rely on a fair degree of spin.

Perhaps if people did not produce so much waste, there would not be so much waste going into landfill?

jacaranda

djpbarry wrote: »

Perhaps if people did not produce so much waste, there would not be so much waste going into landfill?

And if my aunt was a man then she'd be my uncle...lets try to deal with the world as it is and not as we might like it to be.

djpbarry

jacaranda wrote: »

And if my aunt was a man then she'd be my uncle...lets try to deal with the world as it is and not as we might like it to be.

Eh? dunsandin stated disapprovingly that he/she has witnessed waste going to landfill. I made the point that it is currently a necessary evil, but the amount of waste going to landfill could be reduced. What point were you trying to make?

dunsandin

Dunsandin actually was stating that an awful lot of what should/could/is meant to be, recycled, aint.

djpbarry

dunsandin wrote: »

Dunsandin actually was stating that an awful lot of what should/could/is meant to be, recycled, aint.

I'm not disagreeing with that. The question is, what do we do about it?

dunsandin

Stop allowing companies to describe themselves as "So and So Recycling Ltd" when they dont. Stop allowing companies(however closely related to the state) to describe themselves as "caring for our environment" when they dont. And, crazily enough, invest in and encourage companies who actually do "recycle" material, not just those who accept material "for recycling" which really means stockpiling/reshipping to third parties/landfilling and baling. By western European standards, we fall badly short on our commitment to recycling, and are apparently facing hefty fines as a state as a result. Money better spent on actual recycling measures.

djpbarry

dunsandin wrote: »

Stop allowing companies to describe themselves as "So and So Recycling Ltd" when they dont. Stop allowing companies(however closely related to the state) to describe themselves as "caring for our environment" when they dont. And, crazily enough, invest in and encourage companies who actually do "recycle" material, not just those who accept material "for recycling" which really means stockpiling/reshipping to third parties/landfilling and baling.

There seems to be a growing trend on this forum to assume, without any supporting evidence, that waste management firms are landfilling large quantities of recyclable materials.

dunsandin wrote: »

By western European standards, we fall badly short on our commitment to recycling...

Are we? According to the EPA’s most recent National Waste Report, most EU recycling targets are being met or surpassed. Where we’re no doing so good is reducing the amount of waste going to landfill, due to increase in total municipal waste produced.

dunsandin

Sorry, but the EPA's national waste report is to me as reliable as that of the OECD saying we have turned a corner.
European Prosecution Avoidance agency anybody? Just to fire a well documented and public one at you, how do we fare for recycling tyres? Thats just one plain, well publicised example, and before you attempt to dredge the depths for statistics to refute me, don't bother. I have my view, informed by daily work in the commercial sector, and I dont care what (lies, damn lies and) statistics are issued forth. But all due respect and all that.:)

Judgement Day

dunsandin wrote: »

Sorry, but the EPA's national waste report is to me as reliable as that of the OECD saying we have turned a corner.
European Prosecution Avoidance agency anybody? Just to fire a well documented and public one at you, how do we fare for recycling tyres? Thats just one plain, well publicised example, and before you attempt to dredge the depths for statistics to refute me, don't bother. I have my view, informed by daily work in the commercial sector, and I dont care what (lies, damn lies and) statistics are issued forth. But all due respect and all that.:)

There were quite a few posts on the Politics Forum after the Prime Time programme on tyre 'recycling' which I suggested should be moved to this forum where it might have got a bigger audience.

boards.ie > Soc > Politics
Shocking Prime Time episode on tyre dumping.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055914465&highlight=prime+time+tyres

dunsandin

I think the way we "recycle" tyres is a lot like the way we recycle appliances, plastics and timber. Not so hot. This is a personal bugbear of mine, and I consider it to be a scandalous waste of the earths rescources, as well as environmentally disasterous.

Judgement Day

I think your point about 'So and So Recycling Ltd' is so true - it gives an illusion that we care about the environment. Like years ago when we had a Minister for the Environment but all he did was oversee the dishing out planning permissions, and all sorts of other issues with nothing do with environmental concerns but the illusion was there. Today we have the Environmental Protection Agency which is basically an agency which hands out permits to companies to pollute the environment to statutory levels. The Heritage Council another quango which is more concerned with preserving itself than anything else. Joe Public who is not in the loop naturally enough assumes that the environment is being looked after. :mad:

dunsandin

Regarding the Prime Time episode on tyres, I found it telling that the small fry lad who was not eloquent and ran when confronted will have recieved far more approbrium than the slicker types who referred to "issues arising outside of the original business plan", ie who could spin their situation better, and grasp onto that great Irish phrase that forgives all- "mistakes have been made, but we will endeavour to do better in the future". That is a pure spun crock, but it is a phrase used to abdicate responcibility for all sorts of misdemeanours, great and small. "We will have to do better going forward". Well thats ok then,all is forgiven, lets all move forward together in a spirit of bullsh1t, doing the same old thing.

djpbarry

dunsandin wrote: »

Sorry, but the EPA's national waste report is to me as reliable as that of the OECD saying we have turned a corner.

Sorry, but the EPA's National Waste Report is to me far more reliable than the word of an anonymous poster on an internet forum.

dunsandin

Wonderful.

jacaranda

dunsandin wrote: »

I think the way we "recycle" tyres is a lot like the way we recycle appliances, plastics and timber. Not so hot. This is a personal bugbear of mine, and I consider it to be a scandalous waste of the earths rescources, as well as environmentally disasterous.

Companies who landfill generally do have the word "RECYCLE" emblazoned on the side of their trucks. the word has been so devalued now as to be almost meaningless.

djpbarry

jacaranda wrote: »

Companies who landfill generally do have the word "RECYCLE" emblazoned on the side of their trucks.

You mean waste management companies that are engaged in recovering recyclabes also landfill some of their waste? Shocking.

jacaranda

If you are unable to read posts here without, apparently, thinking the poster must be suggesting something other than that which he states, then I really can't help you.

djpbarry

jacaranda wrote: »

If you are unable to read posts here without, apparently, thinking the poster must be suggesting something other than that which he states, then I really can't help you.

If you are unable to engage in a discussion, then please refrain from posting. Take a few days to brush up on the content of the charter, with a particular emphasis on this point:

This is not a blog – if you’re not prepared to discuss the content of your posts, which will inevitably involve your opinions being challenged, then please do not post.

Irrelevant posts deleted.

jacaranda

djpbarry wrote: »

If you are unable to engage in a discussion, then please refrain from posting. Take a few days to brush up on the content of the charter, with a particular emphasis on this point:
Irrelevant posts deleted.

I'm quite happy to discuss and engage in a discussion. Your idea of a discussion, in this context, seems to be defined as misreading what I have said or at least not accepting what I have said, and then twisting it to try to get me to say something else. Then you delete your posts (curiously claiming that your posts are irrelevant), and waving your big mod stick ban me because i have the temerity to not agree or play your game of twisting what I have said.

Who can be interested in engaging in discussion with someone whose idea of discussing appears to be so defined?

djpbarry

jacaranda wrote: »

Your idea of a discussion, in this context, seems to be defined as misreading what I have said or at least not accepting what I have said, and then twisting it to try to get me to say something else.

I asked you to clarify a statement you made - that is not an unreasonable request for any poster to make. Repeating said statement over and over does not constitute clarification. Stubbornly refusing to elaborate on a point you have made does not constitute discussion. If you think I'm misrepresenting what you have said, then explain how I have misrepresented you.

jacaranda wrote: »

Then you delete your posts (curiously claiming that your posts are irrelevant), and waving your big mod stick ban me because i have the temerity to not agree or play your game of twisting what I have said.

You have already been warned about discussing moderation in-thread. If you continue to do so, you will receive an extended ban from the forum.

Now, back on-topic please.

paddyjameson

We deal with a company Envirogreen Recycling, and they are just a recycling company that buy our cardboard, plastic, bottles etc from us, They don't do waste and we deal with a skip company for that

I like this because we know exactly how much we are getting for recycling. When we dealt with panda and so called one-stop solution we got screwed and never saw a penny for the cardboard etc


Details found here
Cardboard Recycling

PanchoVilla

djpbarry wrote: »

That would be a question for Panda. However, given that Green Bin collections are not charged 'per lift', shipping all your recyclables off to China for landfilling doesn't seem to me like a terribly sound business model.

And yet that's exactly what they do.

"We don't have our own landfill site, so it makes economic sense to recycle as much as possible of what we collect. Most of this is then exported," said Waters. "We ship 100 containers every week, full of cardboard, plastic and other recyclables -- mainly to Asia, where there is huge demand for raw materials."

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/where-theres-muck-theres-brass-1084346.html

It feels really good to know we're creating jobs abroad. They don't really "landfill" the waste in the strict sense of the word, they just dump it and forget it. The locals are the ones who sift through it all and "recycle" our waste.

djpbarry

PanchoVilla wrote: »

And yet that's exactly what they do.

No, it is not. You have simply decided that's what they do.

PanchoVilla wrote: »

It feels really good to know we're creating jobs abroad. They don't really "landfill" the waste in the strict sense of the word, they just dump it and forget it. The locals are the ones who sift through it all and "recycle" our waste.

That's quite a leap you're making there. I would ask you however to explain how Panda, for example, can generate a profit under such circumstances? Are they being paid by developing countries to dump their materials on their land? Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

shomershabbas

I think waste disposal companies should be required to publish details of where the waste goes and in what proportions. You should probably get on to your own company for an answer. I have to agree with the earlier poster who said that the EPA's national waste disposal figures are undoubtedly construed to make the picture look a lot greener than it actually is.

PanchoVilla

djpbarry wrote: »

No, it is not. You have simply decided that's what they do.

That's pretty funny. I quote an article where the owner/managing director states quite specifically that they ship 100 containers to Asia on a weekly basis and you still try to deny they send their rubbish over to Asia.

That's quite a leap you're making there. I would ask you however to explain how Panda, for example, can generate a profit under such circumstances? Are they being paid by developing countries to dump their materials on their land? Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

Let me explain how the recycling business works. Manufacturers of recycled goods or traders of raw materials pay collectors like Panda for the materials they collect, so companies like Panda are actually getting paid from both sides. We pay them to collect our rubbish and then they are paid to deliver it to a manufacturer/trader. Panda sends their collected materials over to Asia where people are employed to sort the material. These people typically work for less than $2 a day, which is how all these companies are able to make a profit. It's essentially slave labor, although actual slaves are usually provided with food, clothes, and shelter by their owner.

djpbarry

PanchoVilla wrote: »

That's pretty funny. I quote an article where the owner/managing director states quite specifically that they ship 100 containers to Asia on a weekly basis and you still try to deny they send their rubbish over to Asia.

Are you sure that’s what Mr. Waters said? Let’s have another look:

“... it makes economic sense to recycle as much as possible of what we collect. Most of this is then exported.”

So the collected materials are recycled, then exported. Nowhere in that article does it state that domestic waste, intended for recycling, is being put straight on a ship to Asia.

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Let me explain how the recycling business works. Manufacturers of recycled goods or traders of raw materials pay collectors like Panda for the materials they collect, so companies like Panda are actually getting paid from both sides. We pay them to collect our rubbish and then they are paid to deliver it to a manufacturer/trader. Panda sends their collected materials over to Asia where people are employed to sort the material. These people typically work for less than $2 a day, which is how all these companies are able to make a profit. It's essentially slave labor, although actual slaves are usually provided with food, clothes, and shelter by their owner.

Let me explain how this forum works – statements need to be backed up by evidence. You’re making some pretty serious allegations regarding Panda’s business practices – do you have absolutely anything at all to back them up? I’m guessing you don’t. Furthermore, the business model you outline above makes absolutely no sense – manufacturers in Asia pay European waste management firms to transport rubbish half-way around the world, then pay locals to sort the rubbish, then pay for the sorted rubbish to be recycled... those are some pretty substantial overheads, no? That’s before we even consider the fact that India, for example, is already swimming in its own waste.

Ghost Estate

In India people use the railways to sh1t on because they have no toilet

and the government is too busy demanding access to corporate VPN's and tracking down illegal satellite phone users to care