Are you still able to haggle for a car? Double pricing??

ABajaninCork

Hi guys!

Title says it all really....You might remember I asked a question about Fiestas vs Peugeot. Most of you seemed to recommend a Fiesta, so after talking it over we decided to test drive a Ford to see what it's like. I found a nice one on the net advertised for E9500 'straight' and E10500 Retail (in the small print! :mad:)

Car was really lovely to drive although I found the boot very small. OK - so I went into the office to talk about money. Dealer was willing to give me E2200 for my car, which I thought was pretty good. But then he tells me that the car was actually the higher price of E10550. I queried this as we would be paying the balance in cash. Dealer's refused to move on the price which is fine. Personally, I think the price is very high for the spec of the car, and am quite prepared to look elsewhere.

Why is there such a difference in the price?? I thought if finance was required, then fine. There would be a premium for the service. Why would I then have to pay the higher price if there was a PX and cash sale?? I don't understand that...He wouldn't even haggle!! In London where I'm from NO-ONE pays the full whack on a car. Dealers expect you to haggle!!! It's considered rude not to....

What am I doing wrong?

Cookie_Monster

ABajaninCork wrote: »

What am I doing wrong?

living in Ireland...

ABajaninCork

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

living in Ireland...

Besides that???

Atomic Pineapple

Price advertised is usually a straight sale price, if you go to trade in expect to have to pay a higher price.

Having a trade in also limits your haggling options.

Henry Ford III

The car is priced at €10.5k. He's offering a €1k discount on a straight sale (i.e. no trade in).

Cost to change for you at those prices is €8.3k. I'd offer €7k maybe.

You need to establish exactly what the new and old cars are worth - price similar models to get an idea.

ABajaninCork

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The car is priced at €10.5k. He's offering a €1k discount on a straight sale (i.e. no trade in).

Cost to change for you at those prices is €8.3k. I'd offer €7k maybe.

You need to establish exactly what the new and old cars are worth - price similar models to get an idea.

That's what I did. Guy wouldn't move on the price as he told me that either way the finance co would pay him!!!

Anan1

Basically what's going on here is the dealer is prepared to give you €950 for your own car.

draffodx

draffodx wrote: »

Price advertised is usually a straight sale price, if you go to trade in expect to have to pay a higher price.

Generally the adv price is the non straight sale price as most people have a trade in unless the car for sale is only a couple of thousand or less.

Anan1

RoverJames wrote: »

Generally the adv price is the non straight sale price as most people have a trade in unless the car for sale is only a couple of thousand or less.

That was always the way, but recently i've noticed more and more cars being advertised with dual pricing.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

That was always the way, but recently i've noticed more and more cars being advertised with dual pricing.

True, but if there is a single price and the car is not a cheap thing the single price is usually the non staight sale price
The OPs case is dual pricing.

colm_mcm

Anan1 wrote: »

That was always the way, but recently i've noticed more and more cars being advertised with dual pricing.

It works both ways though, a lot of people wouldn't even go see the car if it was advertised at 10500. you could end up with a smaller cost to change on a car with a higher price, most people won't bother shopping around and will go for the cheapest one on Carzone regardless of how they might fare out on their trade in

Anan1

colm_mcm wrote: »

It works both ways though, a lot of people wouldn't even go see the car if it was advertised at 10500. you could end up with a smaller cost to change on a car with a higher price, most people won't bother shopping around and will go for the cheapest one on Carzone regardless of how they might fare out on their trade in

That's true. I suppose the rub comes when people find they're no longer being offered the artificially inflated values on their trade-ins that they're used to.

Atomic Pineapple

RoverJames wrote: »

True, but if there is a single price and the car is not a cheap thing the single price is usually the non staight sale price
The OPs case is dual pricing.

Last garage I was in (last weekend) the sales man said they were bringing in new pricing ideas where the straight sale is the only one advertised.

They had dropped the prices on the cars they had significantly as I was checking cars before I went there and the prices when I got there were lowered by a substantial amount.

I've noticed a lot more dealers advertising as straight price too.

colm_mcm

This is it. On one hand, people love the transparency of something like a scrappage deal, where a new car is advertised at a set price, and it looks like brilliant value, with the discounts (even aside from the 1500 lids from the gov.) applied.
If the same thinking was applied to used cars, where the price you see is the price you pay, I could see a few things happening:

The trade in figure given would be the price the garage actually buys your car for

Customers would be annoyed that the price of similar cars on the forecourt to theirs is higher and would assume that they should get that, even though the garage would have to service, prep, warranty and make a profit on the trade in

Customers would still expect money off as it's inbuilt into us to feel like we're getting a special deal

Everyone thinks their car is the best example of a particular model.

Zubeneschamali

colm_mcm wrote: »

Customers would still expect money off as it's inbuilt into us to feel like we're getting a special deal

Yes, Fiat ran for a few years (back around 2000) with "open book" prices. They advertised the real price you'd pay, and made it as low as they could. The knock-on was that:

1) People with trade-ins were insulted by the low "value" put on their cars
2) Depreciation on your new car starts at the low "open-book" price.

So, they stopped.

colm_mcm

I still got a discount off the open book pricing back in 2000 as I wanted broom yellow and they only had steel grey (glad now!)

Gatster

This happened to me yesterday - I went to look at a car advertised on Carzone (no mention of straight or trade in prices in the ad), and when I got to the dealer the car had a sticker in the window that basically said the Carzone price was the straight deal price, and with a trade in it would be €2k more (I have no trade, cash/finance purchase so the lower price applies)

It was a lovely car but I felt I wasn't getting a 'deal', as initially when I tried to negotiate they wouldn't have it. When I was leaving, he said something along the lines of "I'll see what I can do but it won't be much"...

It sullied the whole thing for me really, I wouldn't have minded if it had been stated on the advert or mentioned on the phone - I'd say anyone seeing the ad and going in with a trade would be rightly p!ssed off.

corktina

I wouldnt do business with any dealer operating such corrupt practises.
What you should do is go in and get a price agreed without a trade in THEN ask him how much he 'd give you for your own car.
f he wants to play silly games with the figures, walk for the door, he will not want to see a buyer lost is my guess.

R.O.R

corktina wrote: »

I wouldnt do business with any dealer operating such corrupt practises.
What you should do is go in and get a price agreed without a trade in THEN ask him how much he 'd give you for your own car.
f he wants to play silly games with the figures, walk for the door, he will not want to see a buyer lost is my guess.

But then you'll be insulted when he offers what the car is actually worth, rather than inflating the value by using some of the available discount from the new car price.

People expect to get a trade in value for their car similar to what the ones on a forecourt are retailing for. If the dealer gives a discount on the car being bought, then the full retail (or close) for the trade-in, there is no where to make money. Possibly a small margin on the car being sold, but that's not enough to pay wages yet alone rent and rates on the dealership.

If the trade in is something they can sell themselves then the trade in price will be better. If it's not something they will sell themselves, then it will have to be traded off to someone and that will always be at a price less than they've allowed for the trade in under the current system.

corktina

R.O.R wrote: »

But then you'll be insulted when he offers what the car is actually worth, rather than inflating the value by using some of the available discount from the new car price.

People expect to get a trade in value for their car similar to what the ones on a forecourt are retailing for. If the dealer gives a discount on the car being bought, then the full retail (or close) for the trade-in, there is no where to make money. Possibly a small margin on the car being sold, but that's not enough to pay wages yet alone rent and rates on the dealership.

If the trade in is something they can sell themselves then the trade in price will be better. If it's not something they will sell themselves, then it will have to be traded off to someone and that will always be at a price less than they've allowed for the trade in under the current system.

No I wont be insulted...I would already KNOW what my car is worth before going in and if he isnt offering somewhere near it, I wont be buying....

corktina

corktina wrote: »

No I wont be insulted...I would already KNOW what my car is worth before going in and if he isnt offering somewhere near it, I wont be buying....

If he is offering near what you KNOW your car is worth than he is making the money (thousands) on the car yoy are buying, they aren't St Vincent De Paul these dealers, it's the cost to trade up should be the factor not what he is offering you for your car.

R.O.R

corktina wrote: »

No I wont be insulted...I would already KNOW what my car is worth before going in and if he isnt offering somewhere near it, I wont be buying....

Most people will be way off the mark between what they think their car is worth (based on figures from carzone / cbg / bloke in the pub) and what their car is actually worth to the trade.

Owen

There are three issues in this thread as far as I can see.

1 - Garages advertising straight sale prices, and having retail prices on the forecourt. That's probably a no-no, and I would be pissed off if I drove half the country to pick up a bargain only to learn that the car has already been heavily discounted.

2 - Prospective customers unable to see value. If a car has a straight selling price of 2k less than a retail price, and the dealer says that's his best deal, why would you feel you're not getting a 'deal' with 2k off? People always want to feel special, in the last garage I worked in we did a blitz on prices for a week, we were genuinely the cheapest on the net for a week on all our cars, and people still wanted to get more of a deal.

3 - Prospective customers not able to understand the difference between what their car is worth to them, and a part exchange allowance. Lets say you have a fiesta worth 4k. If you're working off an RRP of 10 for the new car with a straight sale price of 8 (Unlikely, but possible), what the garage will do is have your car costing them 2, use the 2k discount, and allow you 4 and your cost to change is 6k. If you're working of the straight sale price of 8, then will only be able to give you 2 for your car. Your cost to change is still 6k, but a hell of a lot of people can't see past the trade in price of their own car. You can't expect to have discount at both ends, have the cheap price on the new car, and get top dollar for your part exchange. It's either/or.

gigabit

Some car companies are doing low finance of 3% over 3 years at the moment. I looked at 2 of their models but the low interest is only on the list price. I had neg. a cash price of 17 grand for a brand new car but if i wanted the finance i had to pay 18,400. Surely this can't be allowed. It means the 3% finance is costing me 1400 euro + the 3%.

Anan1

gigabit wrote: »

Some car companies are doing low finance of 3% over 3 years at the moment. I looked at 2 of their models but the low interest is only on the list price. I had neg. a cash price of 17 grand for a brand new car but if i wanted the finance i had to pay 18,400. Surely this can't be allowed. It means the 3% finance is costing me 1400 euro + the 3%.

I would have thought it common-sense that the 3% finance would have to be subsidised from somewhere.

gigabit

Anan1 wrote: »

I would have thought it common-sense that the 3% finance would have to be subsidised from somewhere.

I understand what you are saying, but then it is not 3% if they load you with a list price only. That APR would be closer to 11%. It has to be confusing for customers who do not understand this. A mate bought a nissan last year with 0% finance on the haggled price.

Anan1

gigabit wrote: »

I understand what you are saying, but then it is not 3% if they load you with a list price only. That APR would be closer to 11%. It has to be confusing for customers who do not understand this.

Absolutely. It's intentionally confusing if you ask me.

gigabit

gigabit wrote: »

Some car companies are doing low finance of 3% over 3 years at the moment. I looked at 2 of their models but the low interest is only on the list price. I had neg. a cash price of 17 grand for a brand new car but if i wanted the finance i had to pay 18,400. Surely this can't be allowed. It means the 3% finance is costing me 1400 euro + the 3%.

I made this point a few weeks back, that dealers will not budge from the screen price when you are getting finance deals off them.

colm_mcm

Carzone is a mess anyway, Can't see why they don't have a database of car specs etc linked to the reg number like the Autotrader UK site (who own carzone ffs) has.

They seem to have no problem with dealers advertising cars they don't have, dealers advertising cars for €0 or P.O.A or deliberately misleading punters.

Max Power1

colm_mcm wrote: »

Carzone is a mess anyway, Can't see why they don't have a database of car specs etc linked to the reg number like the Autotrader UK site (who own carzone ffs) has.

They seem to have no problem with dealers advertising cars they don't have, dealers advertising cars for €0 or P.O.A or deliberately misleading punters.

That really pi$$es me off no end. If you are looking at the cheaper end of the market the first 10 pages minimum are always £POA. Waste of time and effort for the prospective buyer.

colm_mcm

Kearys in Cork seem to advertise most of their cars P.O.A