Apcoa Clamping

SWEETCAN2000

Hi all,
I wasn't sure where to put this.
I got unfairly clamped in my own estate and placed an appeal into Apcoa. They said they'd reply within 28 days and haven't. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this and what my next step should be.
PS I've paid the whopping fine but can't afford it and really need the money back.
Thanks in advance for your help:)

Stark

Expect a letter saying "tough ****" in 28 days. Happened to us a while back. Sent in photos and watertight proof that the space belonged to us but no joy. Not sure if the small claims court is an option for you to get your money back. Would you be able to get your credit card company to reverse the charge on your credit card? That way, they'll have to go chasing you for the money and they might not bother if your appeal is valid. As long as they have your money, they won't want to give it back, valid appeal or no valid appeal. My housemate paid in cash but I've heard of people having luck with the credit card route.

onemorechance

Check out the Joe Duffy podcast on clamping. It seems that it is a private matter between you and the clamping company, the police will not be interested. Your best option, in my opinion is for you to threaten them with legal action due to them not responding to you in 28 days (and you being unfairly clamped). It seems that the tougher you get with them, the better your chances of a refund are. They have fined you and received the money so now they are hoping you will go away. Let them know that you will not go away.

Cookie_Monster

SWEETCAN2000 wrote: »

I got unfairly clamped in my own estate and placed an appeal into Apcoa

what was the situation? your opinion of unfairly clamped and everyone else's may differ slightly...

Ste.phen

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what was the situation? your opinion of unfairly clamped and everyone else's may differ slightly...

It's usually one of the following:
* Someone was in their space so they parked somewhere else (someone else's space, or double yellow lines)
* If permits are in use, the OP may have forgotten to put in on the car after loaning it to someone

I think in both of those cases they'll send you a PFO, but as onemorechance said the harder you push them the more chance you'll get your money back.
Might be worth hassling the management agent or management company too; the clamping companies don't like to piss off their customers (i.e the company that owns the carparks) by having THEIR customers complaining at them

corktina

If I was sure of my ground and was clamped where I was legally entitled to be , I would remove the clamp without a second thought and let ALCOA take a running jump.

Atlantic Dawn

Private clamping is 100% unregulated in this country, has no licencing system, no official appeals process and how it doesn't fall in to the category of a business that should be regulated by the PSA is beyond me. A criminal can setup one of these businesses tomorrow and extort whatever they want and you must pay :mad:.

Ofcourse your other option is to cut if off in which case zero will happen to you .

Carawaystick

SWEETCAN2000 wrote: »

Hi all,
I wasn't sure where to put this.
I got unfairly clamped in my own estate and placed an appeal into Apcoa. They said they'd reply within 28 days and haven't. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this and what my next step should be.
PS I've paid the whopping fine but can't afford it and really need the money back.
Thanks in advance for your help:)

If they advertised they'd respond inside 28 days and didn't then they've breached their contract- goods and services sold by description must match the description under the sale of goods and supply of services act. So I'd ask for a refund as you paid for the service of them removing your clamp and hearing your appeal.

They'll probably ignore or dismiss this but then you can go to the small claims court to get you money back.

Stark

Ste.phen wrote: »

It's usually one of the following:
* Someone was in their space so they parked somewhere else (someone else's space, or double yellow lines)
* If permits are in use, the OP may have forgotten to put in on the car after loaning it to someone

Well in our situation, my flatmate was parked in our own space but they apparently got a call from someone asking for us to be clamped and they graciously complied. Got a PFO in the post 28 days later saying "Sorry,but we received a phone call therefore your appeal has been unsuccessful. Hope it doesn't happen to you again". Total cowboys.

corktina

As i say, cut it off, if this worries you phone them and tell them they have 30 minutes to remove it or you will do it yourself.

foggy_lad

Stark wrote: »

Well in our situation, my flatmate was parked in our own space but they apparently got a call from someone asking for us to be clamped and they graciously complied. Got a PFO in the post 28 days later saying "Sorry,but we received a phone call therefore your appeal has been unsuccessful. Hope it doesn't happen to you again". Total cowboys.

can they provide proof of this phone call? you are entitled surely to meet your accuser/mystery caller!

Sponge Bob

Most of these 'private' clampers in Dublin are only ex cons 'trying to go straight' or else they are straight off the boat with no Inglés. They will be fired if they don't clamp their daily quota which is 8-10 cars each and they get desperate around 4pm to make their numbers. Nice little racket pulling in €100s a day per van all the same and the cops do nothing about them.

Cut the clamp off and they won't target you again.

Our man in Havana

The small claims court would be the best option to recover any money given to these crooks.

corktina

dont give them it in the first place is a better option...

BrianD

Stark wrote: »

Expect a letter saying "tough ****" in 28 days. Happened to us a while back. Sent in photos and watertight proof that the space belonged to us but no joy. Not sure if the small claims court is an option for you to get your money back. Would you be able to get your credit card company to reverse the charge on your credit card? That way, they'll have to go chasing you for the money and they might not bother if your appeal is valid. As long as they have your money, they won't want to give it back, valid appeal or no valid appeal. My housemate paid in cash but I've heard of people having luck with the credit card route.

You should have persisted in this case. I had to appeal to another company and it took two gos at it. Unfortunately, no credit card company will cancel a transaction made to a clamping company. They will say take it up with 'local standards'.

serfboard

corktina wrote: »

If I was sure of my ground and was clamped where I was legally entitled to be , I would remove the clamp without a second thought and let ALCOA take a running jump.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Ofcourse your other option is to cut if off in which case zero will happen to you .

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Cut the clamp off and they won't target you again.

What do you need to cut one of these clamps off? Should I buy one and store it in the boot of my car?

Ham'nd'egger

serfboard wrote: »

What do you need to cut one of these clamps off? Should I buy one and store it in the boot of my car?

An angle grinder or some similar cutting tool; hardly something you'd have in the glove compartment:D

gurramok

Youtube it. They will not prosecute you for cutting it off as they cannot sue you as after all they are not legally enforceable.

Cookie_Monster

gurramok wrote: »

Youtube it. They will not prosecute you for cutting it off as they cannot sue you as after all they are not legally enforceable.

they also have no proof it was you what did it

corktina

..and at the end of the day, you owe them a maximum of one padlock....I should think a bolt cutter would do the job wouldnt it?

Our man in Havana

On some clamps the lock is part of the clamp so it can be nessasary to destroy the entire clamp.

Taxipete29

Haddockman wrote: »

The small claims court would be the best option to recover any money given to these crooks.

Apparently(reason unknown) these transactions do not fall under the jurisdiction of the small claims court. This came from someone on Joe Duffy who was pursuing another clamping firm for a refund

Our man in Havana

I take it a district court clerk has decided these are civil debts that must be brought to the full district court.

Cookie_Monster

corktina wrote: »

..and at the end of the day, you owe them a maximum of one padlock....I should think a bolt cutter would do the job wouldnt it?

only if they have evidence or witness to say you did it though. They can't just assume it was you that did it, as obvious as it may be

Absurdum

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

only if they have evidence or witness to say you did it though. They can't just assume it was you that did it, as obvious as it may be

and it's on your wheel without your permission

I'd treat it the same as bird****e - unwelcome and removable

Victor

Guys, encouraging legally dubious behaviour is not acceptable.

serfboard

Victor wrote: »

Guys, encouraging legally dubious behaviour is not acceptable.

Although removing clamps may be legally dubious, it is no more legally dubious than the (non-legally-enforceable) clamping of cars in perfectly valid situations.

BrianD

... on a lighter note, this Google ad appears on the top of the page while viewing this thread:

Parking Enforcement
Clamping Visitor Parking
www.apcoa.ie

Even by the wording, this company has the wrong attitude.

Most of these companies rely on you not pursuing the case and/or making a good case. Most of the remarks in this thread won't stand up as an arguement. The fact of the matter is that if you park in a car park you agree by the terms and conditions which includes clamping whether justified or in error. There should be an appeals process that allows for errors to be rectified.

corktina

this thread is about someone parked within those terms though (or so i thought)

Our man in Havana

There is nothing illegal about removing a trespass against your property. The law allows self help in these situations.

Until there is a superior court judgement on clamping, that is the way it is.

markpb

Haddockman wrote: »

There is nothing illegal about removing a trespass against your property. The law allows self help in these situations.

It's not always trespass that clamping seeks to solve though. In my case (as a director of the management company for the privately managed estate), I'm responsible for maintaining a safe access route for the fire authority. In effect, I'm responsible for other peoples bad parking.

Last year, we temporarily suspended clamping and within a few weeks, people were parked on double yellow lines, blind corners, fire access routes and in front of fire escapes. The last straw came when the fire brigade responded to a small bin fire and couldn't get to it because two idiots had blocked a narrow road. Now clamping is back with a vengeance. People who remove clamps themselves are fined by the management company.

This is the price people pay for being stupid. Yes, clampers make mistakes and yes they can be useless when you need to point out their mistakes but they're a necessary evil. They wouldn't be necessary if people had two brain cells to rub together when it came to parking.

Our man in Havana

People who remove clamps themselves are fined by the management company.

A company has no power to fine anyone. Only the courts and the Gardaí can do that.
If someone challenged that in court the company could be in very hot water.

DubMedic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEafTuV11Uk

Taxipete29

markpb wrote: »

People who remove clamps themselves are fined by the management company.
.

How does this work exactly??

Our man in Havana

DubMedic wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEafTuV11Uk

That is brilliant! Well done Osama!

Sponge Bob

You can bill them for storing the clamp

Victor

serfboard wrote: »

Although removing clamps may be legally dubious, it is no more legally dubious than the (non-legally-enforceable) clamping of cars in perfectly valid situations.

boards.ie doesn't encourage legally dubious behaviour. That works both ways.

Haddockman wrote: »

There is nothing illegal about removing a trespass against your property. The law allows self help in these situations.

That also works both ways. The motorist sees the clamp as a trespass, the property owner sees the wrongly parked vehicle as a trespass.

corktina

Victor wrote: »

boards.ie doesn't encourage legally dubious behaviour. That works both ways.

That also works both ways. The motorist sees the clamp as a trespass, the property owner sees the wrongly parked vehicle as a trespass.

at the risk of repeating myself, we are discussing a LEGALLY parked car getting clamped....

Our man in Havana

corktina wrote: »

at the risk of repeating myself, we are discussing a LEGALLY parked car getting clamped....

Exactly.

Self help would be accepted by the courts.

Victor

corktina wrote: »

at the risk of repeating myself, we are discussing a LEGALLY parked car getting clamped....

Really? This is all we have to go on. Two sides to every story.

SWEETCAN2000 wrote: »

Hi all,
I wasn't sure where to put this.
I got unfairly clamped in my own estate and placed an appeal into Apcoa. They said they'd reply within 28 days and haven't. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this and what my next step should be.
PS I've paid the whopping fine but can't afford it and really need the money back.
Thanks in advance for your help:)

corktina

Victor wrote: »

Really? This is all we have to go on. Two sides to every story.

Yes really, the conversation develops over time and the first post (mine as it happens) to mention removing the clamp very carefully stressed if the vehicle was legally parked

"If I was sure of my ground and was clamped where I was legally entitled to be , I would remove the clamp without a second thought and let ALCOA take a running jump"

BrianD

corktina wrote: »

Yes really, the conversation develops over time and the first post (mine as it happens) to mention removing the clamp very carefully stressed if the vehicle was legally parked

"If I was sure of my ground and was clamped where I was legally entitled to be , I would remove the clamp without a second thought and let ALCOA take a running jump"

The problem is that by use of the car park you have agreed that the company may clamp your car. It is not within your right to remove it irrespective if the clamping company made a mistake or not.

The obvious situation is if the company made a genuine error then you should get a full refund. The problem here seems to be not the clamping but that the clamping company do not have an effective appeals procedure in place.

Taxipete29

BrianD wrote: »

The problem is that by use of the car park you have agreed that the company may clamp your car. It is not within your right to remove it irrespective if the clamping company made a mistake or not.

The obvious situation is if the company made a genuine error then you should get a full refund. The problem here seems to be not the clamping but that the clamping company do not have an effective appeals procedure in place.

Unregulated, unlicensed members of the general public, which is all private clampers are, have no legal right to clamp my car.

Why do these companies not fall under the remit of the licensing system all security firms have to conform too??

Cowboys, and should be treated as such.

corktina

BrianD wrote: »

The problem is that by use of the car park you have agreed that the company may clamp your car. It is not within your right to remove it irrespective if the clamping company made a mistake or not.

The obvious situation is if the company made a genuine error then you should get a full refund. The problem here seems to be not the clamping but that the clamping company do not have an effective appeals procedure in place.

wot rot ...do you own a clamplng company? Are they going to pay you for weeks of loss of your car/money?

Our man in Havana

I agree. Any criminal fresh out of Mountjoy can set up a clamping company with no regulation or oversight from any governmental agency. Why private clamping is not within the remit of the PSA is a mystery indeed.

Anyone that thinks their appeals process is fair is living in cloud cuckoo land. They have your money and they are not going to see sense and hand it back to you just because you wrote a nice letter.

The matter of private clamping needs to be settled once and for all with a definitive superior court judgement. I see the principles of Arthur v Anker and Vine v Waltham Forest applying.

BrianD

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Unregulated, unlicensed members of the general public, which is all private clampers are, have no legal right to clamp my car.

Why do these companies not fall under the remit of the licensing system all security firms have to conform too??

Cowboys, and should be treated as such.

Whoa guys! Ignorance is not a defence!

Not all clampers are cowboys. Some are very reputable companies others are cowboys and many in between.

You have to understand that by parking on private property you are accepting their terms and conditions of usage. This may include clamping. As you are on private property, they do have the right to clamp you car if that's in the rerms of usage. Choosing to ignore this isn't going to make this go away.

Most clampers are retained as a service by the car park owner. It's true that there is no legislation to cover these guys at all. All that has to be done to make clamping "legit" is to display warnings and a contact number for de-clamping. At the same time, there is nothing to prevent you removing the clamp undamaged. The likelihood is that the car park owners would probably ban you from the car park. Whether that is enforcable or not is another thing.

Corktina - I don't own a clamping company, have been clamped twice ever and got my money back in one case.

corktina

we are talking here about cars being clamped when they are properley parked and therefore anyone clamping them is doing so incorrectly. IN THIS CASE I have advocated removing the clamp as a perfectly Ok thing to do.

Taxipete29

BrianD wrote: »

Whoa guys! Ignorance is not a defence!

Not all clampers are cowboys. Some are very reputable companies others are cowboys and many in between.

You have to understand that by parking on private property you are accepting their terms and conditions of usage. This may include clamping. As you are on private property, they do have the right to clamp you car if that's in the rerms of usage. Choosing to ignore this isn't going to make this go away.

Most clampers are retained as a service by the car park owner. It's true that there is no legislation to cover these guys at all. All that has to be done to make clamping "legit" is to display warnings and a contact number for de-clamping. At the same time, there is nothing to prevent you removing the clamp undamaged. The likelihood is that the car park owners would probably ban you from the car park. Whether that is enforcable or not is another thing.

Corktina - I don't own a clamping company, have been clamped twice ever and got my money back in one case.

Until they are licensed and regulated with independant appeals processes like the UK I will continue to refer to them as cowboys.

I am a law abiding citizen and i dont park my car illegally so never fall foul of these people. But I have the tools incase I do. Not sure about the firm in the OP but other firms pay clampers commision. Thats not about keeping roads clear or making sure people pay for parking, thats just about making money and screwing people over.

BrianD

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Until they are licensed and regulated with independant appeals processes like the UK I will continue to refer to them as cowboys.

I am a law abiding citizen and i dont park my car illegally so never fall foul of these people. But I have the tools incase I do. Not sure about the firm in the OP but other firms pay clampers commision. Thats not about keeping roads clear or making sure people pay for parking, thats just about making money and screwing people over.

You are still missing the point. If you use a car park that is private property where a clamping regime is i place then you have agreed that in the event that you are illegally parked (for whatever reason). So it is largely irrelevant what legislation is in place. A perfectly fair and transparent can be run on private property without any need for government legislation.

Not all clampers are cowboys and even the most professional outfit will invariablly get it wrong on occasion.

In the meantime, we need to get Corktina off the hook! Can you send over the letter you wrote.

JJRocket

Mods- I wasnt sure whether to start a new post so feel free to move....

Im renting in a private estate in Galway with non designated tenant parking. Last night I got home about 21:40 at night and had stopped in Tesco on the way home. My Apartment door is in off the road , in a courtyard area , so I pulled my car up at the top of the car park (as close as possible to my front door) unloaded my shopping (which I and all the other tenants do very regularly) I wasnt obstucting any cars that were parked, so I lugged in my bags and unloaded the shopping. I was in my apt for about 20 mins and when I came out to put my car in a proper space, it was clamped with a release fee of €120.00. I still feel sick to my stomach when I realise this. The recipet for the clamp read 21:53.
I rang the management company this morning and they are not open until Monday. On my way to work this morning at 08:30, I saw the clamping van in another estate. I pleaded with him to remove the clamp for 60 euro which he would not. There were 3 other cars parked illegally last night , one on a handicapped space, with no permit, and two on the edge of the car park. I took photos of all of these.

I know I was illegally parked but I am really worried now about what to do next. I havent got the cash right now and the fee doubles every day. I cant believe I have to pay such a large amount of money. I am thinking of getting someone to remove it but they have my car registration. ...
Can anyone offer some advice!!

foggy_lad

JJRocket wrote: »

Mods- I wasnt sure whether to start a new post so feel free to move....

Im renting in a private estate in Galway with non designated tenant parking. Last night I got home about 21:40 at night and had stopped in Tesco on the way home. My Apartment door is in off the road , in a courtyard area , so I pulled my car up at the top of the car park (as close as possible to my front door) unloaded my shopping (which I and all the other tenants do very regularly) I wasnt obstucting any cars that were parked, so I lugged in my bags and unloaded the shopping. I was in my apt for about 20 mins and when I came out to put my car in a proper space, it was clamped with a release fee of €120.00. I still feel sick to my stomach when I realise this. The recipet for the clamp read 21:53.
I rang the management company this morning and they are not open until Monday. On my way to work this morning at 08:30, I saw the clamping van in another estate. I pleaded with him to remove the clamp for 60 euro which he would not. There were 3 other cars parked illegally last night , one on a handicapped space, with no permit, and two on the edge of the car park. I took photos of all of these.

I know I was illegally parked but I am really worried now about what to do next. I havent got the cash right now and the fee doubles every day. I cant believe I have to pay such a large amount of money. I am thinking of getting someone to remove it but they have my car registration. ...
Can anyone offer some advice!!

if one of your neighbours or a complete stranger removed it they could not blame it on you surely? you cant be held responsible for their clamp? but maybe they have the area under surveilance so they can screw the residants even more?

i am not suggesting that you or anyone else tamper with any clamp put on your vehicle merely saying they would need proof before accusing you if the clamp were to be removed by someone