Inchicore Works

thetool

has there been a thraed yet on the historical Inchicore works? the works played a part in many peoples lives in and around the dublin 8/10 area for over 160 years.

it contains a lot of history from building bus's and trains to munitions during troubled times, it contains many listed bulidings that are likily to be knocked with the dart underground and proposed luas stations.

many characters work there over the years and many a funny story was told or created. there was good/bad and hard times had by all who worked there. there was blood sweat and tears for some.

there was link to protestent history aswell as a monstery and a well. its workshop were famous all across europe and some of the craftworkers were classed as the best in the world.

what do you think?

Run_to_da_hills

The only time I had a snoop around Inchacore works was in 1981 when I went for an interview for an apprentice electrician. It was a mecca back then, they still had that interesting sound barrier of Sulzers. Unfortunitally I missed their open day in 1999, probably the last chance of seeing anything decent.

dowlingm

The Toronto Transit Commission figured out you can make a few bob from tours

steamengine

Capital D did a piece on Inchicore last month. Included is some historical information about the railway families from Britain, who settled in the adjoining houses. Also they manufactured 'everything', as mentioned in the programme, 'iron' went in one end and 'locomotives' etc. out the other. The most famous loco manufactured there was the legendary "Maedhbh", No. 800, 4-6-0 express passenger locomotive !!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0401/capitald.html

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

The Toronto Transit Commission figured out you can make a few bob from tours

Inchicore has already been discussed as a possible museum site see here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055830716&page=3 but you are talking about the morons in CIE/IE/Dept.of Transport/ Dept.of Heritage & Local government/Tourism Ireland/Heritage Council etc.etc. etc........now where did I leave my 4x4 packed with explosives?.....:D

thetool

the had a tour last year its was quite good. it was supposed to be for the staff. but many others managed to get there hand on the coveted golden tickets. i heard it cost 10 grand to put on, from a P.R point of view it was worth every penny.there was face painting/bouncy castle etc. the R.P.S.I were even there. i think the gave then a 121 class loco.
i think it would be great if parts of it were turned into a museum. the might even make a few sheckles from it.
i'm thinking viking splash tours would visit along with all the other tour companies. if there was a hertage centre there and it was done well

corktina

steamengine wrote: »

Capital D did a piece on Inchicore last month. Included is some historical information about the railway families from Britain, who settled in the adjoining houses. Also they manufactured 'everything', as mentioned in the programme, 'iron' went in one end and 'locomotives' etc. out the other. The most famous loco manufactured there was the legendary "Maebhdh", No. 800, 4-6-0 express passenger locomotive !!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0401/capitald.html

legendry is a bit OTT for a loco which was introduced just before the War and never had the chance to fulfill its potential due to fuel shortages and speed restrictions and early dieselisation after the war. Of far more historical note is No36 in Kent Station Cork, which wasnt built there but was maintained there and is one of the earliest surviving locos globally.

Cookie_Monster

dowlingm wrote: »

The Toronto Transit Commission figured out you can make a few bob from tours

insurance rates would never allow this to happen in Ireland.

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

legendry is a bit OTT for a loco which was introduced just before the War and never had the chance to fulfill its potential due to fuel shortages and speed restrictions and early dieselisation after the war. Of far more historical note is No36 in Kent Station Cork, which wasnt built there but was maintained there and is one of the earliest surviving locos globally.

Maybe so from a historical point of view - over the years Maedhbh acquired an almost mythological status in hindsight, almost everyone had heard of her, the most common anecdote was that she was too heavy and hard on the tracks. Apart from that IMO this class of 4-6-0 's represented the zenith of locomotive building at Inchicore.

DWCommuter

Why should we care about the history of Inchicore works. CIE certainly don't. Had the building boom continued, most of it would be under apartments by now.

Stonewolf

steamengine wrote: »

Maybe so from a historical point of view - over the years Maedhbh acquired an almost mythological status in hindsight, almost everyone had heard of her, the most common anecdote was that she was too heavy and hard on the tracks. Apart from that IMO this class of 4-6-0 's represented the zenith of locomotive building at Inchicore.

Which is a fairly parochial outlook to be honest. globally it was nothing special.

steamengine

Stonewolf wrote: »

Which is a fairly parochial outlook to be honest. globally it was nothing special.

Very much an Irish affair ok but somewhat understated in terms of power. Flying Scotsman, a Class A3 Pacific would be a well known loco internationally - the curious thing is that it had 2000 lbs less tractive power than Maedhbh.

DWCommuter

Stonewolf wrote: »

Which is a fairly parochial outlook to be honest. globally it was nothing special.

Globally they could have been special, but they now only hold meaning for Irish enthusiasts.

I knew nothing about these locos until I brought a school tour to the transport museum in Cultra many years ago. Looking at 800 up there, I was stunned by its size. Subsequent research reveals that they were victims of circumstances. In terms of our overall railway history, these locos were vast machines and built in Ireland during a very bleak time. They are underrated simply because we didn't have the infrastructure to get the most out of them. Add to that WW2 and dieselisation and their place in railway history (globally) was stunted at birth. Railway historians around the world know little about them. That is why they are all too often ignored.

They represent an ambition that was buried by economics and then abandoned by CIE. Personally I'm glad someone had an interest in preserving one as they are an example of a very very brief period in Irish Railway history that could be considered on a par with developments on more prosperous rail networks.

In terms of presevation, its a shame this loco is in Cultra and not a dedicated museum down south. Its also a shame that the preservation community on this island couldn't find some way to put this loco back into service.

Stonewolf

It's reasonable enough to say it should be placed on display as part of a wider appreciation for the history of Irish railways and the works itself but going so far as to call it legendary is a bit much. Any such centre should have a mind to the place of our rather quaint system in railway world. If you really wanted to show off unique and innovative things Inchicore did then Bulleids CC1 is what you want though unfortunately given its overall irrelevance to the development of modern motive power nobody ever thought to preserve it as was also the case with its ill fated predecessor the Leader.

One place 800 shouldn't be is in a museum in a foreign country.

DWCommuter

steamengine wrote: »

Very much an Irish affair ok but somewhat understated in terms of power. Flying Scotsman, a Class A3 Pacific would be a well known loco internationally - the curious thing is that it had 2000 lbs less tractive power than Maedhbh.

As we are usually are at war, I will make peace with you on this topic, because of the subject.

The rail network in Ireland has always been seen as an under performing piece of ****e. But as I alluded to in an earlier post these particular class of locos represented a real example of how somewhere in the system, somebody had pride. They symbolise the potential we had to be ambitious. But subsequent inertia killed it off quickly. These locos are the only example of visionary thinking in Irish Railway history. Since then its been a litany of disaster. (although the oul Drumm battery train could be considered visionary)

Where did it all go wrong? Oh yeah...CIE.:rolleyes:

DWCommuter

Stonewolf wrote: »

It's reasonable enough to say it should be placed on display as part of a wider appreciation for the history of Irish railways and the works itself but going so far as to call it legendary is a bit much. Any such centre should have a mind to the place of our rather quaint system in railway world. If you really wanted to show off unique and innovative things Inchicore did then Bulleids CC1 is what you want though unfortunately given its overall irrelevance to the development of modern motive power nobody ever thought to preserve it as was also the case with its ill fated predecessor the Leader.

One place 800 shouldn't be is in a museum in a foreign country.

Its probably considered legendary amongst Irish enthusiasts and I can understand that, as Irish Railway history isn't littered with many examples of ambitious thinking.

steamengine

DWCommuter wrote: »

Globally they could have been special, but they now only hold meaning for Irish enthusiasts.

I knew nothing about these locos until I brought a school tour to the transport museum in Cultra many years ago. Looking at 800 up there, I was stunned by its size. Subsequent research reveals that they were victims of circumstances. In terms of our overall railway history, these locos were vast machines and built in Ireland during a very bleak time. They are underrated simply because we didn't have the infrastructure to get the most out of them. Add to that WW2 and dieselisation and their place in railway history (globally) was stunted at birth. Railway historians around the world know little about them. That is why they are all too often ignored.

They represent an ambition that was buried by economics and then abandoned by CIE. Personally I'm glad someone had an interest in preserving one as they are an example of a very very brief period in Irish Railway history that could be considered on a par with developments on more prosperous rail networks.

In terms of presevation, its a shame this loco is in Cultra and not a dedicated museum down south. Its also a shame that the preservation community on this island couldn't find some way to put this loco back into service.

Yes, generally accepted as being a match for any British mainline top link loco of the period. It shows where once we were 'at' !!! Museums are akin to graveyards IMO - however we don't have one yet !!! It would be an interesting project to restore Maedhbh but I guess it would need someone like the 'Tornado' 'main man' to drive the project and a benefactor with loads of dosh.

DWCommuter

steamengine wrote: »

Yes, generally accepted as being a match for any British mainline top link loco of the period. It shows where once we were 'at' !!! Museums are akin to graveyards IMO - however we don't have one yet !!! It would be an interesting project to restore Maedhbh but I guess it would need someone like the 'Tornado' 'main man' to drive the project and a benefactor with loads of dosh.

Historically I find some of the set up in Inchicore distateful and in recent times its hard to comprehend the mentality. Preservation wise, from my very ordinary perspective, I'm shocked that a steam loco like this one is not back on the rails, because it would be a bigger draw for Joe Public than anything the RPSI have. (Internationally it would be a big draw on the improved track we now have) However I understand the realities that a voluntary organisation like the RPSI face. That said its a really big missed opportunity to have such a unique steam loco sitting idle and no museum down south to operate it from. Trust me when I say that ordinary punters would be attracted to a luxury train drawn by a loco of this size. Thats a business opportunity and business opportunities can make money once they include joe public in their marketing. The RPSI santa specials etc are proof of that.

steamengine

DWCommuter wrote: »

Historically I find some of the set up in Inchicore distateful and in recent times its hard to comprehend the mentality. Preservation wise, from my very ordinary perspective, I'm shocked that a steam loco like this one is not back on the rails, because it would be a bigger draw for Joe Public than anything the RPSI have. (Internationally it would be a big draw on the improved track we now have) However I understand the realities that a voluntary organisation like the RPSI face. That said its a really big missed opportunity to have such a unique steam loco sitting idle and no museum down south to operate it from. Trust me when I say that ordinary punters would be attracted to a luxury train drawn by a loco of this size. Thats a business opportunity and business opportunities can make money once they include joe public in their marketing. The RPSI santa specials etc are proof of that.

Well at least someone had the good sense to bring it to Cultra, although clearly that rankles with some people - but a long time ago a descendant of the original railway people of Inchicore, who worked in Inchicore, told me that the last 'crowd' who really knew about 'railway working' were the said same 'Railway People'. At the end of the day it does boil down to vision, enthusiasm and that sadly lacking quality 'efficiency'. Yes, you're bang on - what a draw that would be, but for the time being it remains in the realms of fantasy!!!

corktina

steamengine wrote: »

Yes, generally accepted as being a match for any British mainline top link loco of the period. It shows where once we were 'at' !!! Museums are akin to graveyards IMO - however we don't have one yet !!! It would be an interesting project to restore Maedhbh but I guess it would need someone like the 'Tornado' 'main man' to drive the project and a benefactor with loads of dosh.

I cant let that pass by. A match for any British mainline loco? They were conceived as being equivalent to a GWR Star which were superceded by the Castle in 1923 (surely the most sucessful loco ever of its size) and again by the King in 1928 (and on other UK railways these were eclipsed in Spades by the Duchess A4 and Merchant Navy classes amongst others).

An interesting loco from the engineering point of view but historically something of a White Elephant which never got anywhere near its potential and never operated trains in the way that a Star would have!

Judgement Day

DWCommuter wrote: »

Historically I find some of the set up in Inchicore distateful and in recent times its hard to comprehend the mentality. Preservation wise, from my very ordinary perspective, I'm shocked that a steam loco like this one is not back on the rails, because it would be a bigger draw for Joe Public than anything the RPSI have. (Internationally it would be a big draw on the improved track we now have) However I understand the realities that a voluntary organisation like the RPSI face. That said its a really big missed opportunity to have such a unique steam loco sitting idle and no museum down south to operate it from. Trust me when I say that ordinary punters would be attracted to a luxury train drawn by a loco of this size. Thats a business opportunity and business opportunities can make money once they include joe public in their marketing. The RPSI santa specials etc are proof of that.

34 years ago I was painting stones to use as markers for a Little Tern colony on a County Wicklow beach - I did it by myself with some school friends as nobody in officialdom cared enough to bother - now the same colony has a 24 hour, well paid, wardening service during the breeding season. What's the connection you may ask? Well, 27 years ago I was part of a group that tried to persuade CIE and various people in government to get Maeve out of Witham Street and run it between Dublin & Cork as a publicity trailblazer for the railways - even if a tiny fraction of CIE's advertising budget had been diverted to fund the project it would have been a monumental success. But no, this is Ireland we talk the talk but never walk the walk where these projects are concerned. The main difference between the tern project and Maeve is CIE and the associated dead hand of the state - Bord Failte, in those days, and the Dept.of Transport. As for me, I am sufficiently disillusioned and impoverished by my involvement in various projects here never to get burnt again and my own interest today is in 'self-preservation' - it's a dog eat dog world out there and nobody in officialdom gives a damn about anything except their pensions/the lump or defrauding the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lxDjd_fi8

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

I cant let that pass by. A match for any British mainline loco? They were conceived as being equivalent to a GWR Star which were superceded by the Castle in 1923 (surely the most sucessful loco ever of its size) and again by the King in 1928 (and on other UK railways these were eclipsed in Spades by the Duchess A4 and Merchant Navy classes amongst others).

An interesting loco from the engineering point of view but historically something of a White Elephant which never got anywhere near its potential and never operated trains in the way that a Star would have!

Ok no problem, point taken - here are a few figures to illustrate the comparison and the point I was making. And, was it simply a matter of not being able to reach its potential due to its anecdotal reputation of wear and tear on the tracks, or some other reason ?

Tractive Efforts in lbs.:-

Maeve 34,799, GWR star class 27,800, Castle class 31,625, King class 40,300. So more powerful than a Castle but less than a King !

corktina

Tractive effort is not an accurate way to grade loco performance. It is a figure arrived at by a formula involving wheel size and boiler pressure and a few other factors. Handsome is as handsome does, they say.

were tractive effort the only measure, then a class 08 diesel shunter would be rated above Maebdh

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

Tractive effort is not an accurate way to grade loco performance. It is a figure arrived at by a formula involving wheel size and boiler pressure and a few other factors. Handsome is as handsome does, they say.

were tractive effort the only measure, then a class 08 diesel shunter would be rated above Maebdh

What about G601? :rolleyes:

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

Tractive effort is not an accurate way to grade loco performance. It is a figure arrived at by a formula involving wheel size and boiler pressure and a few other factors. Handsome is as handsome does, they say.

were tractive effort the only measure, then a class 08 diesel shunter would be rated above Maebdh

Come on for heaven's sake, we're comparing locos with almost the same diameter driving wheels and boiler pressure and top speed capabilities. So 'like for like' tractive effort is a good enough guide IMO.

steamengine

800 Class

On Irish railways the late 1930s saw the introduction of the celebrated ‘800′ class. There were three in this class of express passenger engine and they had a wheel arrangement of 4-6-0 (a leading four-wheel bogie followed by six large coupled driving wheels). They were among the most advanced in that category and were almost exclusively engaged on the Dublin-Cork service. Waterford never had the pleasure, the axle loading being too great for the then permanent way.
As elsewhere the Second World War dented maintenance of both track and engines and the 800 class never performed at their best for a sustained period. Opinions very on their effectiveness and many felt that a class of only three engines was uneconomic and, that apart, whether they ever achieved the ‘ton’ is debatable. The standard of trackwork at the time would have made that on the dangerous side but there is agreement that at their best they were formidable machines and certainly travelled at well over 80 mph.

Among their notable feats was lifting heavy trains on the steep incline from Cork (Glanmire) unaided and in style. Many trains ex-Cork were double-headed for that steep gradient but Maeve and her sisters Macha and Tailte dismissed such help. They were affectionately known as the ‘Queens,’ sisters you might think to the wonderful ‘King’ class of the UK’s Great Western Railway, but technical experts would say that they were more like the re-built Royal Scot class of the London Midland Region. In tractive effort and performance they were equal if not better than their UK counterparts and were not called after queens but legendary females from Irish ‘faction’ or mythology. Two more of the class were in mind and if built would have been called Deirdre and Grainne. Maeve is preserved as a static exhibit in the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum.
The Second World War not just diminished locomotive performance and care but heralded the end of steam. Rapid advances in technology brought on by the exigencies of war among other influences delivered the early prospect of diesel and electric power with their greater efficiencies despite greater construction costs. If one diesel could do the work of two steam engines then balance sheets could raise even more steam and the new fangled machines appealed to the accountants. The ‘kings of the iron road’ had an expensive way of living.
When our Great Southern Railway was formed in 1925 from many other companies, known as the grouping, it counted 587 locomotives over 114 different classes. One can imagine the headaches of managing and maintaining such a diverse bunch and most on the old side as well. Local rail veteran and author, Jack O’Neill, writes in his book ‘Engines and Men’ that when CIE was formed from the GSR in 1944 it inherited 491 locos in 83 classes. The age factor also helped bring on alternative motive power.


(An extract from an article in the Munster Express June 2008.)

godtabh

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The only time I had a snoop around Inchacore works was in 1981 when I went for an interview for an apprentice electrician. It was a mecca back then, they still had that interesting sound barrier of Sulzers. Unfortunitally I missed their open day in 1999, probably the last chance of seeing anything decent.

I remember going there with my dad in 1999. It was a great day out.

I also drove a train in the shunting yard many moons ago with my grandad way back when.

I used to remember the massive fish pond.

interlocked

I'd love to see Maedhb steam some day but unless a lotto winner decides to indulge himself I don't think it'll ever happen.

Here are some of the reasons, off the top of my head.

1; She's too big. Her axle loading is 22-23 tons I think. The current IR axle loading, is 18.75, This means that she'd be limited to Dublin- Cork, Dublin-Belfast, if indeed the Civil Engineers didn't turn pale at the suggestion. This limits her appeal to the RPSI straight away, no good for the local runs to Mullingar or down the DSER which are their real bread and butter.

2 The overhaul cost, conservatively at least half a million, and probably more.This is a huge amount for a loco without go anywhere status.
The current overhaul of 461 is costing serious money, this is for a loco that has already been restored. Remember the loco restoration for the West Clare cost an estimated €600,000 and that was narrow gauge! I don't know whether there has been any engineering assesment done on Maedbh since withdrawal.

3 Running costs, Maedbh would be considerbly higher in coal consumption than the smaller more economical locos such as 4 or 461.

4 Operatiional problems. I think the current speed limit for steam locos on IR is 60 mph, I know the Mk11's and Cravens were 75mph in service but I'm not sure what they are passed for in heritage service, I suspect it's 60 mph. If you are going to restore a loco that size you want a bit more poke out of her than 60 especially as regards pathing issues

If you did get her restored, and you did get her to Cork the lack of a turntable means that you'd be faced with running her tender first back to Limerick Junction at 45mph.

Finally the operation of a dining trains is good in theory, but in reality not. We haven't got the Pullman Equivalents in this country, As non steel bodied coaches are banned from the main lines you'd be forced to use either Mark 11's or Cravens. I'm not sure that they'd suit luxury dining! You'd also be facing heavy external costs for an volunteer organisation such as crews, staff, access charges etc. It'd be a serious undertaking.

Better invest in the Euro millions this week!

PS
I'm nearly certain that there's records that at least one of the locos has broken the ton. Certainly done the high 90's. Must have been some job trying to keep her coaled and stay on your feet at that speed.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

34 years ago I was painting stones to use as markers for a Little Tern colony on a County Wicklow beach - I did it by myself with some school friends as nobody in officialdom cared enough to bother - now the same colony has a 24 hour, well paid, wardening service during the breeding season. What's the connection you may ask? Well, 27 years ago I was part of a group that tried to persuade CIE and various people in government to get Maeve out of Witham Street and run it between Dublin & Cork as a publicity trailblazer for the railways - even if a tiny fraction of CIE's advertising budget had been diverted to fund the project it would have been a monumental success. But no, this is Ireland we talk the talk but never walk the walk where these projects are concerned. The main difference between the tern project and Maeve is CIE and the associated dead hand of the state - Bord Failte, in those days, and the Dept.of Transport. As for me, I am sufficiently disillusioned and impoverished by my involvement in various projects here never to get burnt again and my own interest today is in 'self-preservation' - it's a dog eat dog world out there and nobody in officialdom gives a damn about anything except their pensions/the lump or defrauding the system.

Fair dues to you, you might not have succeeded but at least you tried !!!

Judgement Day

Interlocked - I don't think that anyone is seriously suggesting that the RPSI should get involved in restoring the Maeve - it would have to be undertaken by the State. That is not going to happen in a Banana Republic which is content to have its National Transport Museum in a semi-derelict hay shed in Howth. That is not reflection on the TMSI members who have fought long and hard to even achieve the museum in Howth Castle Demesne. :mad: It is a reflection on Bord Failte/Failte Ireland/CIE/The Heritage Council as well as numerous government departments and ministers - my own personal experience of trying to get through to that great cultural saint, Michael D.Higgins, was stomach turning. We won't even mention the latest tosser to be in charge of heritage - John Gormley - oops!

corktina

Id l;ove to see 800 steming dont get me wrong, but theres a few locos that would be more practical operationally that would be a better idea. Top of my list Dunluce Castle.(no it isnt a GWR one... :-)

Judgement Day

Inchicore Works Open Day 1997 (?) a major success thanks to the foresight of one IE manager (and a multitude of enthusiasts) saw a large number of locomotives refurbished for display. One of these G601, which came into service in June 1956 for the reopening of the Banteer/Newmarket branch used to belong to me before finding its way to the ITG - cost me a great deal in terms of time and money and look at it now - preservation Irish style. :rolleyes:

G601 at the Inchicore Works Open Day

and today from the RPSI website: http://www.steamtrainsireland.com

lord lucan

As an aside,the RPSI are tentatively looking at building another 'jeep' from scratch. They have the wheels and motion gear and are looking at building the rest from scratch including boiler etc.

Cookie_Monster

who cares about a silly little "G", its just a badly formed tractor on steel wheels (:p), look at the state of the B101 class!!! :eek:

Judgement Day

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

who cares about a silly little "G", its just a badly formed tractor on steel wheels (:p), look at the state of the B101 class!!! :eek:

Well I've only one thing to say to you Cookie_Monster...insert your name here instead of Emmet Stagg. Poor old 601 converted into a British Army watchtower on wheels......but perchance she is not dead but sleepeth......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-fNPFfzHhU

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

Poor old 601 converted into a British Army watchtower on wheels......

:pac::pac::pac:

it could come in handy keeping watch on the West on Track folk

Ham'nd'egger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

who cares about a silly little "G", its just a badly formed tractor on steel wheels (:p), look at the state of the B101 class!!! :eek:

The G's were arguably the worst ever loco to work in Ireland as they were too underpowered to do much more than shunt the odd loose freight train or a single bogie coach; in any case the closure of branch line workings say to it that what little duties they were able to do was all but eliminated.

Ironically enough, those that were preserved have been wee workhorses for the preserved railways they have worked for in Ireland and I hear that G601 will be re-engined soon and returned to traffic.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

Inchicore Works Open Day 1997 (?) a major success thanks to the foresight of one IE manager (and a multitude of enthusiasts) saw a large number of locomotives refurbished for display. One of these G601, which came into service in June 1956 for the reopening of the Banteer/Newmarket branch used to belong to me before finding its way to the ITG - cost me a great deal in terms of time and money and look at it now - preservation Irish style[URL="http://"][/URL]

Walking the walk - fair dues to you again !!!

Transportuser09

Seems like a clever way of protecting G601 from the elements. You can hardly expect a preservation group like such as the ITG to restore all its locos that easily, given its being done by volunteers, etc... Same goes for the B101.

garfieldsghost

interlocked wrote: »

I'd love to see Maedhb steam some day but unless a lotto winner decides to indulge himself I don't think it'll ever happen.

Here are some of the reasons, off the top of my head.

1; She's too big. Her axle loading is 22-23 tons I think. The current IR axle loading, is 18.75, This means that she'd be limited to Dublin- Cork, Dublin-Belfast, if indeed the Civil Engineers didn't turn pale at the suggestion. This limits her appeal to the RPSI straight away, no good for the local runs to Mullingar or down the DSER which are their real bread and butter.

2 The overhaul cost, conservatively at least half a million, and probably more.This is a huge amount for a loco without go anywhere status.
The current overhaul of 461 is costing serious money, this is for a loco that has already been restored. Remember the loco restoration for the West Clare cost an estimated €600,000 and that was narrow gauge! I don't know whether there has been any engineering assesment done on Maedbh since withdrawal.

3 Running costs, Maedbh would be considerbly higher in coal consumption than the smaller more economical locos such as 4 or 461.

4 Operatiional problems. I think the current speed limit for steam locos on IR is 60 mph, I know the Mk11's and Cravens were 75mph in service but I'm not sure what they are passed for in heritage service, I suspect it's 60 mph. If you are going to restore a loco that size you want a bit more poke out of her than 60 especially as regards pathing issues

If you did get her restored, and you did get her to Cork the lack of a turntable means that you'd be faced with running her tender first back to Limerick Junction at 45mph.

Finally the operation of a dining trains is good in theory, but in reality not. We haven't got the Pullman Equivalents in this country, As non steel bodied coaches are banned from the main lines you'd be forced to use either Mark 11's or Cravens. I'm not sure that they'd suit luxury dining! You'd also be facing heavy external costs for an volunteer organisation such as crews, staff, access charges etc. It'd be a serious undertaking.

Better invest in the Euro millions this week!

PS
I'm nearly certain that there's records that at least one of the locos has broken the ton. Certainly done the high 90's. Must have been some job trying to keep her coaled and stay on your feet at that speed.

I'm also pretty sure that Meadbh is out of gauge for operation on the network nowadays... if she were to run again she'd take chunks out of bridges and platforms!

Transportuser09

I know some may not view Cultra as the most appropriate place for 800, but perhaps we should be grateful at the same time. If the Belfast Transport Museum had not got it back in the 60s we might not have it all; it might well have been cut up. Looking the RPSI website it seems that most of their mainline locos appear to fall into the medium size go-anywhere range, which makes sense given axle-load issues and such. It would be nice to see it though, but I can't imagine the viability of such a project, even by the state.

corktina

steamengine wrote: »

Walking the walk - fair dues to you again !!!

ditto.I wonder if they'd sell it...the banteer to newmarket branch runs behind my house, so I'd have an interest in its return home....

Hungerford

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Seems like a clever way of protecting G601 from the elements. You can hardly expect a preservation group like such as the ITG to restore all its locos that easily, given its being done by volunteers, etc... Same goes for the B101.

In fairness, I don't think that B101 was in brilliant condition when IE finally gave it away - it spent years on the sound barrier at Inchicore for one thing!

I'm actually a bit fan of the ITG - they seem to be doing some excellent work on C226 at the moment. Several of their locos are in operational condition too - it seems that insurance is a problem though.

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think that B101 was in brilliant condition when IE finally gave it away - it spent years on the sound barrier at Inchicore for one thing!

I'm actually a bit fan of the ITG - they seem to be doing some excellent work on C226 at the moment. Several of their locos are in operational condition too - it seems that insurance is a problem though.

As far as I know the ITG paid the full scrap value for 103 - CIE/IE give little away except to the ........ Pity 106 wasn't saved instead as it was the last to see service in 1978 and was used on the IRRS '101' Farewell tour. After years on the sound barrier there was undue haste in their ultimate disposal down the North Wall in 1987 - so much so that some went down full of fuel which caused some 'fun' when the torches started work. Good old CIE.

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

34 years ago I was painting stones to use as markers for a Little Tern colony on a County Wicklow beach - I did it by myself with some school friends as nobody in officialdom cared enough to bother - now the same colony has a 24 hour, well paid, wardening service during the breeding season. What's the connection you may ask? Well, 27 years ago I was part of a group that tried to persuade CIE and various people in government to get Maeve out of Witham Street and run it between Dublin & Cork as a publicity trailblazer for the railways - even if a tiny fraction of CIE's advertising budget had been diverted to fund the project it would have been a monumental success. But no, this is Ireland we talk the talk but never walk the walk where these projects are concerned. The main difference between the tern project and Maeve is CIE and the associated dead hand of the state - Bord Failte, in those days, and the Dept.of Transport. As for me, I am sufficiently disillusioned and impoverished by my involvement in various projects here never to get burnt again and my own interest today is in 'self-preservation' - it's a dog eat dog world out there and nobody in officialdom gives a damn about anything except their pensions/the lump or defrauding the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lxDjd_fi8

JD, you must love "Oh Mr. Porter".:D

It was made at Gainsborough Studios, in London, the haunt of Will Hay. In 2004 the derelict studio was demolished and apartments were built on the site. So perhaps you can see the irony!!!;)

Hungerford

I wonder what's going to happen to some of the relics at Inchicore e.g. B113 and 6111 when they start pulling the place apart for the interconnector works. I just have a horrible feeling that the IE Heritage Committee will allow them to meet the scrapman.

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

I wonder what's going to happen to some of the relics at Inchicore e.g. B113 and 6111 when they start pulling the place apart for the interconnector works. I just have a horrible feeling that the IE Heritage Committee will allow them to meet the scrapman.

Don't worry they will have rusted away completely by the time work on the inter-connector commences. pac::pac::pac::pac:

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

Id l;ove to see 800 steming dont get me wrong, but theres a few locos that would be more practical operationally that would be a better idea. Top of my list Dunluce Castle.(no it isnt a GWR one... :-)

No 85 Merlin's overhaul is well advanced according to the latest RPSI bulletins. Many a happy hour or so, many years ago, was spent watching her and the other GNR locos of the same class come thundering through Killester station en route North on the 'The Enterprise' . As a kid I managed quite a few journeys on the trains pulled by all those blue locos. Happy Days !!!

steamengine

thetool wrote: »

has there been a thraed yet on the historical Inchicore works? the works played a part in many peoples lives in and around the dublin 8/10 area for over 160 years.

it contains a lot of history from building bus's and trains to munitions during troubled times, it contains many listed bulidings that are likily to be knocked with the dart underground and proposed luas stations.

many characters work there over the years and many a funny story was told or created. there was good/bad and hard times had by all who worked there. there was blood sweat and tears for some.

there was link to protestent history aswell as a monstery and a well. its workshop were famous all across europe and some of the craftworkers were classed as the best in the world.

what do you think?

I spent a brief period working there in the late 60's, and can recall the place as being very busy indeed. A lot of the maintenance shops operated under the 'time and motion' method. Amongst the most interesting to me was the foundry where the pattern makers would readily explain the process of moulding. An impression of the required part was made in the moulding sand and molten steel then poured into the mould containing the impressed sand. I only saw small parts being cast, but it gave the idea as to how they once made loco wheels etc.

In the lifting shop further up the works they were manufacturing tanker wagons c/w with Westinghouse vacuum brake systems. Near there they had a massive 'wheel profiling machine' and I remember all the axles lined up for machining. The machine shop was very extensive with lathes, milling and shaping machines and it was interesting to see 'gear cutting' being undertaken by the toolmaker/turners.

There were 2 locomotive overhaul shops with specially constructed bays to allow access at the sides and below and they were busy. Also a component shop which undertook a myriad of smaller type maintenance jobs. One of the most interesting jobs there was the cutting of rail sections for points - that long taper bit see JD's pic above.

On the lighter side they had Radio Inchicore that played pop music twice a day to all the workshops, so you could work away and listen to the Kinks 'Sunny Afternoon' at the same time. As regards characters I remember this guy who wore a grease top cap, whistled all the time and wheeled a wheelbarrow all day long around the works. I never saw him stopped anywhere - never found out what his role was either. Apparently, he was a model railway buff and once a year set up his model railway on the exhibition day !!! Forgot to mention the bar - you could get a lunchtime pint if you wished - Happy Days !!!:D

ollaetta

Parallel thread on the dublin.ie forum:

http://www.dublin.ie/forums/showthread.php?9714-quot-the-work-s-quot-inchicore

Great pics and stories all round.

steamengine

ollaetta wrote: »

Parallel thread on the dublin.ie forum:

http://www.dublin.ie/forums/showthread.php?9714-quot-the-work-s-quot-inchicore

Great pics and stories all round.

This pic courtesy of the Irish Traction Group shows a 0-8-0 MAK diesel hydraulic locomotive which I remember parked up permanently in Inchicore at the end of the sixties. Originally bought by the GNR, it was in service around 1956 on the Northern line. It made an awful racket noise-wise and I don't think it was used for very long by the GNR, for whatever reason.