ticketmaster service charge

paddles

is the rip-off service charge only for credit cards or does it matter whether u pay by laser or cash? i thought it was only credit card and yet when i went into a tkt master outlet and paid by laser i still got charged extra per tkt. is that right? it wasn't booking fee as the tkt clearly states the price already includes booking fee.
thanks

GerardKeating

paddles wrote: »

is the rip-off service charge only for credit cards or does it matter whether u pay by laser or cash? i thought it was only credit card and yet when i went into a tkt master outlet and paid by laser i still got charged extra per tkt. is that right? it wasn't booking fee as the tkt clearly states the price already includes booking fee.
thanks

Only way to avoid the charge is to go to the actual venue, and purchase a ticket direct from them...

jor el

paddles wrote: »

it wasn't booking fee as the tkt clearly states the price already includes booking fee.

They call it a handling fee and it applies to each ticket you buy, even if you pay in cash.

paddles

i have always booked tkt master w credit card before so als thought it was the credit card charge. well, there u go - rip off!

GerardKeating

paddles wrote: »

i have always booked tkt master w credit card before so als thought it was the credit card charge. well, there u go - rip off!

What's the rip-off, they provide a service and you pay for it..??

Cabaal

How exactly have ticket master caused a consumer issue, did they in some way provide poor customer service when they processed your ticket purchase?

MysticalSoul

If you buy in cash or by laser from the booth in Stephen's Green there is no extra charge, which is why I always go there to buy my tickets

GerardKeating

MysticalSoul wrote: »

If you buy in cash or by laser from the booth in Stephen's Green there is no extra charge, which is why I always go there to buy my tickets

Which is exactly what the ticket-master service charge is for, saves me the 400KM round trip to Stephen's Green...

MysticalSoul

GerardKeating wrote: »

Which is exactly what the ticket-master service charge is for, saves me the 400KM round trip to Stephen's Green...

5 min walk from work for me

rubadub

MysticalSoul wrote: »

If you buy in cash or by laser from the booth in Stephen's Green there is no extra charge, which is why I always go there to buy my tickets

Yes, or if it is a gig in a smaller venue like whelans they might be on sale on www.tickets.ie

On that site you used to be able to collect them at the door and in the past it was actually cheaper than the ticket price including booking fee. i.e. it was even cheaper than what you could get paying cash in the stephens green kiosk. Now it has increased and you can still collect at the box office for free, or pay €1 postage.

I presume these guys are not a charity and are making a decent profit, so TM are making €6.35 above and beyond what is a reasonable profit on each ticket. And in the past it was €7.35. They also would not have the same benefit as TMs infrastructure/economies of scale, so TM's profits would be even more.

paddles

MysticalSoul wrote: »

If you buy in cash or by laser from the booth in Stephen's Green there is no extra charge, which is why I always go there to buy my tickets

that's my point!! i walked into my local outlet and paid w laser and still got stung for Eur3 per ticket! why is that when others are not charged? i always thought it was for credit card transactions which, yes, are convenient and i understand the charge. when i go into an outlet myself i don't think the chrage need apply!

can i argue this with my local music shop?

rubadub

paddles wrote: »

that's my point!! i walked into my local outlet and paid w laser and still got stung for Eur3 per ticket! why is that when others are not charged?

I presume your outlet is actually an agent, so it would be similar to expecting to get a bar in the local shop for the same price he gets it from the cash & carry. They are making the money, while going to some venues or the ticketmaster booth you are going straight to the cash & carry and cutting out the middle man.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/smart-consumer/do-we-have-to-pay-high-online-booking-charges-1628184.html

Do we have to pay high online booking charges?

Thursday February 05 2009

Q Keelin from Dublin contacted Smart Consumer on behalf of her mum, who in December booked 10 tickets for Cirque du Soleil in the O2. The cost of the tickets was €69.50 plus a €6.35 booking fee per ticket bringing the cost of the transaction to €758.50.

The tickets were booked online with Ticketmaster as this was the only place her mum knew to purchase them from. Keelin asks "should she have paid a total of €63.50 in booking fees and is there anywhere she could have purchased these tickets without incurring this fee?"

A Booking fees have long been a thorn in the side of consumers, but from a legal point of view, as long as they are clearly advertised, there is nothing illegal about charging them. However, it remains difficult for many to reconcile the fee charged (€63.50 in this instance) with the job of processing and administering the booking.

Smart Consumer contacted Ticketmaster who confirmed that this booking fee should have been charged. They say: "this is a service charge intended to cover such items as credit card processing fees, postage, handling, administering a call centre etc."

Ticketmaster also added that you can purchase the tickets without incurring a booking fee, either by purchasing tickets at the Ticketmaster outlet at St Stephens Green Centre in Dublin city centre or at the venue box office, in this case at O2.

So Smart Consumer reckons that if anyone is buying concert tickets and wants to avoid the booking fee, get them directly from the venue or get someone you know in Dublin to buy them at Ticketmaster's outlet for you.

Exclamation Marc

Yeah I was gonna say about the Stephens Green branch.

You only pay face value on the tickets with no service charges.

artielange

Front page off digg thought you would enjoy it OP


http://digg.com/music/Screw_you_Ticketmaster_PIC


http://i.imgur.com/keFbG.jpg

maps and atlas

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Yeah I was gonna say about the Stephens Green branch.

You only pay face value on the tickets with no service charges.

Are you sure? The last time I was at that ticket desk, which was only a couple of months ago, they were charging the €2.25 agents service charge per ticket plus an additional €2 per ticket if paying by credit card. So it was actually cheaper to buy the tickets (which were €30 each) online from Ticketmaster if using a credit card.

rubadub

maps and atlas wrote: »

Are you sure? The last time I was at that ticket desk, which was only a couple of months ago, they were charging the €2.25 agents service charge per ticket plus an additional €2 per ticket if paying by credit card.

As said before you must pay cash at the kiosk, somebody said laser will do too, but I only heard cash before so can only vouch for that.

MysticalSoul

rubadub wrote: »

As said before you must pay cash at the kiosk, somebody said laser will do too, but I only heard cash before so can only vouch for that.

I have used laster at the kiosk at Stephen's Green on numerous occasions, and not been charged. They did try to charge me for Riverdance once (the only event I ever came across that they do charge), so I just walked to the Box office at the Gaiety around the corner instead. I bought tickets for Cirque du Soleil a couple of months ago by laser, and more recently for a show at the Grand Canal Theatre, and no charge at all

flav0rflav

I also feel the service charge is unnecessarily high.

I'd like to make that point that this could be combated if there was some competition in the online ticket selling market. Ticketmaster appear to me to have a monopoly.

acquiescefc

just wanted to drag this up.

got charged 2.25 extra for paying in cash for a 14 euro ticket.

rip off bstards

it was actaully only 1.50ish extra buying online but i didnt want to get them posted as its so near to the gig

twowheelsonly

As Gerardkeating said... They provide a service and you pay for it.
I have no doubt that they're being charged by the Banks for providing this card service, it can usually be anywhere from 2 to 5% afaik so they're basically passing this on as well as providing phone operators, computer technicians and administration staff to look after that end of things exclusively. If they did it for nothing then we wouldn't have the convenience of their operation for very long!! IMO they're far and away the best at what they do. Obviously most venues/promoters think the same as otherwise they wouldn't use them.
Look at any big gig in this country - Ticketmaster always have staff there, whether it be for Ticket Sales, Collections or computer operators. Usually a mobile Box Office (Or Two....or more) for outdoor gigs and the associated costs in running these.
I certainly find it far preferable to use them rather than the 'old-time' system where you had to find out would it be Pat Egans, Golden Discs or somebody else selling the tickets that you wanted, then go and queue at 4 O Clock in the morning and hope that the queue wasn't too big and that they'd have sufficient stock. And if they didn't then be gutted to find that somebody up the country somewhere was able to stroll in at 2pm and pick up tickets because they were overstocked. Anybody mid-30s' up should be able to relate to this. At least now the playing field is as level as we're likely to get it.

And No,.... I don't work for Ticketmaster!!!


Edit; Lol... Just noticed the age of the thread!!!

acquiescefc

twowheelsonly wrote: »

it can usually be anywhere from 2 to 5% afaik so they're

so 14 euro ticket and 2.25 service charge. i make that around 16%

that fair?

Exclamation Marc

twowheelsonly wrote: »

IMO they're far and away the best at what they do. Obviously most venues/promoters think the same as otherwise they wouldn't use them.
Look at any big gig in this country - Ticketmaster always have staff there, whether it be for Ticket Sales, Collections or computer operators. Usually a mobile Box Office (Or Two....or more) for outdoor gigs and the associated costs in running these.

I could not disagree more with you. They're "far and away the best at what they do" simply because they're the only operator in this country. They have staff at every big gig in the country because they're the only operator. They have the monopoly on tickets in Ireland, so to praise their infiltration is slightly contradictory seeing as they've 0 competition.

Des Bishop is touring next year and selling his tickets via the theatres themselves (thus he's not doing the Olympia or Vicar Street) at €25. When you buy them, the cost comes to..... €25.

Peoples problem with ticketmaster is that they get money from the tickets as it is, and then they mount more costs on them regardless, so when you see a band playing for €40, you could well be paying €45 or €50 per ticket before you've paid, and thats what peoples problem is. If the tickets were just a flat inclusive price, people wouldn't complain, its when you get your receipt and see 3 or 4 extra charges, people are infuriated.

It is the equivalent of a forced service charge in a restaurant. They're already getting money off you for the tickets, and they'll charge you extra on top of that. I'm not saying the old queue-up method is better, but there really should be competition out there.

But I seriously resent the notion that they're the "best at what they do" because they simply have no competition, and venues and artists are contract bound to sell through them.

rubadub

twowheelsonly wrote: »

As Gerardkeating said... They provide a service and you pay for it.

I see no reason why if I buy 10 tickets I am charged exactly 10 times the prices as if they handled the transaction for a single ticket -can you?

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Obviously most venues/promoters think the same as otherwise they wouldn't use them.

Have you ever heard of a guy called Bruce Springsteen, or Pearl Jam? Many peformers do not like them but there is no other option in some venues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticketmaster

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I certainly find it far preferable to use them rather than the 'old-time' system where you had to find out would it be Pat Egans, Golden Discs or somebody else selling the tickets that you wanted, then go and queue at 4 O Clock in the morning and hope that the queue wasn't too big and that they'd have sufficient stock.

I find tickets.ie far more preferable.

www.tickets.ie are a small company who can offer you tickets at proper face value and still presumable make a decent profit, they take no extra charges, like other shops like sound cellar would. TM are charging about €6.50 per ticket OVER AND ABOVE a reasonable profit, and the bastards won't even reissue a ticket if iyou lose one WTF is all that money you are paying going for, it certainly is not good customer service.

Tickets.ie used to offer a box office collection service and the tickets were actually €1 cheaper than the quoted ticketmaster price. e.g. if the gig was listed as €70 the only way to get it for this was to pay cash at the tickemaster kiosk, while on tickets.ie you could pay for the same ticket online and collect at box office for €69. Most tickets on tickets.ie were also available on ticketmaster.ie at the same time, but to avail of the exact same box office collection service would be about €77.50 Vs. €69, and this is a much smaller operator who is probably making less profit, even if they were to charge €77.50. But no, they can make a reasonable profit at €69.

Now tickets.ie just have box office collection at face value (no €1 discount), so for the few gigs they do get to cater for you can buy online and be sure of a ticket. They generally only get to have tickets for smaller venues, like tripod, whelans etc.

Exclamation Marc

rubadub wrote: »

I see no reason why if I buy 10 tickets I am charged exactly 10 times the prices as if they handled the transaction for a single ticket -can you?

My mum's friend bought 10 tickets for her daughters birthday to some gig, and the "service/handling charges" amounted to around €50!!! How much "service/handling" goes on when all you have to do is print out a bloody ticket and put it in an envelope seeing as the automated system does more or less all of the work.

Bloody disgraceful.

And to top that, something I didn't think of earlier. I've a friend who is effectively a tout (or twat in shorthand) who allegedly claimed that he gets most of his tickets from a friend who works for a large Irish ticketing company which I won't name, who basically buys the tickets at 9am on the button when tickets go on sale to ensure he gets them, as they can be purchased before any online transaction/agent transaction. Forwards them onto my mate, who sells them on ebay.

If I'm paying an extortionate rate for service charge, I at least expect a little bit of fairness.

Exclamation Marc

Just watched Watchdog there on BBC.

Next week they'll have a section on how and I quote "Ticketmaster makes a fortune allowing touts to exploit concert fans"

twowheelsonly

acquiescefc wrote: »

so 14 euro ticket and 2.25 service charge. i make that around 16%

that fair?

No, in fairness that sounds excessive but , and I'm only guessing, it's probably a minimum charge or such-like. Still expensive though.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

I could not disagree more with you. They're "far and away the best at what they do" simply because they're the only operator in this country. They have staff at every big gig in the country because they're the only operator. They have the monopoly on tickets in Ireland, so to praise their infiltration is slightly contradictory seeing as they've 0 competition.

Des Bishop is touring next year and selling his tickets via the theatres themselves (thus he's not doing the Olympia or Vicar Street) at €25. When you buy them, the cost comes to..... €25.

Peoples problem with ticketmaster is that they get money from the tickets as it is, and then they mount more costs on them regardless, so when you see a band playing for €40, you could well be paying €45 or €50 per ticket before you've paid, and thats what peoples problem is. If the tickets were just a flat inclusive price, people wouldn't complain, its when you get your receipt and see 3 or 4 extra charges, people are infuriated.

It is the equivalent of a forced service charge in a restaurant. They're already getting money off you for the tickets, and they'll charge you extra on top of that. I'm not saying the old queue-up method is better, but there really should be competition out there.

But I seriously resent the notion that they're the "best at what they do" because they simply have no competition, and venues and artists are contract bound to sell through them.

I doubt very much that Artists are contract bound by them. Venues, possibly so in some instances, but more likely it's the promoters that decide who is going to manage their ticket sales and they mainly seem to go for Ticketmaster. Why I wonder??
If I want to go to see Des Bishop on that tour where do I go for a ticket? Do all the venues have the facility to get tickets online or by phone?

rubadub wrote: »

I see no reason why if I buy 10 tickets I am charged exactly 10 times the prices as if they handled the transaction for a single ticket -can you?

Have you ever heard of a guy called Bruce Springsteen, or Pearl Jam? Many peformers do not like them but there is no other option in some venues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticketmaster

I find tickets.ie far more preferable.

www.tickets.ie are a small company who can offer you tickets at proper face value and still presumable make a decent profit, they take no extra charges, like other shops like sound cellar would. TM are charging about €6.50 per ticket OVER AND ABOVE a reasonable profit, and the bastards won't even reissue a ticket if iyou lose one WTF is all that money you are paying going for, it certainly is not good customer service.

Tickets.ie used to offer a box office collection service and the tickets were actually €1 cheaper than the quoted ticketmaster price. e.g. if the gig was listed as €70 the only way to get it for this was to pay cash at the tickemaster kiosk, while on tickets.ie you could pay for the same ticket online and collect at box office for €69. Most tickets on tickets.ie were also available on ticketmaster.ie at the same time, but to avail of the exact same box office collection service would be about €77.50 Vs. €69, and this is a much smaller operator who is probably making less profit, even if they were to charge €77.50. But no, they can make a reasonable profit at €69.

Now tickets.ie just have box office collection at face value (no €1 discount), so for the few gigs they do get to cater for you can buy online and be sure of a ticket. They generally only get to have tickets for smaller venues, like tripod, whelans etc.

I would imagine that it's easier for them to have a per ticket charge rather than a percentage price - doesn't make it right but at least it's transparent. AT least I know what it's going to cost me from the outset. (Believe it or not a very large amount of people can't figure out percentages!!)
If tickets.ie are so good, (and from a consumer point of view they are) then why aren't they much bigger and why don't all the major Promoters use them. Bear in mind that their customer is the promoter - not you!! Ticketmaster must be doing something right from the Promoters point of view - something that obviously ticket.ie or others can't match.

maps and atlas

twowheelsonly wrote: »

If tickets.ie are so good, (and from a consumer point of view they are) then why aren't they much bigger and why don't all the major Promoters use them. Bear in mind that their customer is the promoter - not you!! Ticketmaster must be doing something right from the Promoters point of view - something that obviously ticket.ie or others can't match.

It might have something to do with the fact Ticketmaster will pay the larger promoters to do business with them. MCD was paid €5 million by Ticketmaster for a ten year deal. See the Irish Times article http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/1106/1224258178245.html

Music hacks don't seem to want to go near reporting about these things but occasionally you can find them reported in the business section of newspapers.

There's also interesting information in the Competition Authority report on payments by Ticketmaster to promoters in 2006. See article and link to the report at http://www.tca.ie/EN/News--Publications/News-Releases/The-Competition-Authority-announces-closure-of-its-investigation-of-TicketMaster-Ireland.aspx.

The report is heavy reading and has a number of blacked out items / figures but when you cross reference the report with the Irish Times report and other reports on the web you get a good idea on the figures.

maps and atlas

By the way there's a Facebook campaign which was recently started about the issue of price transparency - http://www.facebook.com/rocktheticket

See also this thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056029666

Exclamation Marc

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I doubt very much that Artists are contract bound by them. Venues, possibly so in some instances, but more likely it's the promoters that decide who is going to manage their ticket sales and they mainly seem to go for Ticketmaster. Why I wonder??

The Olympia and Vicar Street etc are all contracted to one of two promoters. Have a look at any gig being held in these venues, and you'll see that every gig is on ticketmaster. Ticket sales go through ticketmaster because they've no other choice. It's not as if there are 30 ticketing agencies out there and its the same one that gets chosen every time, so implying that ticketmaster gets the bulk of tickets because theyre the best is short-sighted. It's a monopoly.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

If I want to go to see Des Bishop on that tour where do I go for a ticket? Do all the venues have the facility to get tickets online or by phone?

You go to the theatre website, call the theatre hotline, or visit the theatre box-office, and the price of the ticket is the price you pay.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

If tickets.ie are so good, (and from a consumer point of view they are) then why aren't they much bigger and why don't all the major Promoters use them. Bear in mind that their customer is the promoter - not you!! Ticketmaster must be doing something right from the Promoters point of view - something that obviously ticket.ie or others can't match.

The reason they use ticketmaster is because ticketmaster apparently (as a previous poster said) paid massive money to get exclusivity. That has nothing to do with "doing something right", thats called buying the contract. When you've no competition, it's very easy to pretend that you're the best.

It's the equivalent of going to a cinema and seeing €7 cinema ticket and then by the time you get to the till and pay its €10 because of service charges and handling fees.

maps and atlas

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Just watched Watchdog there on BBC.

Next week they'll have a section on how and I quote "Ticketmaster makes a fortune allowing touts to exploit concert fans"

Just noticed this - Ticketmaster own a number of 'secondary' ticketing selling websites like Ticketsnow.com and Getmein.com.

There have been a number of controversies surrounding these types of sites, most notably Bruce Springsteen tickets last year in the US, where all the tickets sold out in seconds and customers were redirected to a reseller website. See New York Times article - http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/ticketmaster-settles-with-f-t-c-over-springsteen-ticket-mess/

Exclamation Marc

maps and atlas wrote: »

Just noticed this - Ticketmaster own a number of 'secondary' ticketing selling websites like Ticketsnow.com and Getmein.com.

There have been a number of controversies surrounding these types of sites, most notably Bruce Springsteen tickets last year in the US, where all the tickets sold out in seconds and customers were redirected to a reseller website. See New York Times article - http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/ticketmaster-settles-with-f-t-c-over-springsteen-ticket-mess/

Yep and in the UK, there's a building where on the first floor Ticketmaster operates, and the floor beneath its GetMeIn.

One sells all the tickets. The other facilitates the reselling of them to make more money. Despite the fact that tickets are not transferrable for the consumer. This is what next weeks Watchdog UK programme is about. Definitely set it to record.

maps and atlas

Some more links to articles about the service fees, profits and relationships with other companies.

Sunday Tribue article from 2003 - on Ticketmaster profits 2002
http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2003/nov/23/taxman-eyes-ticketmaster-profits/

RTE's Primetime from 2003 - Ticketmaster defending excessive service charges
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0807/primetime.html

Sunday Tribue article from 2004 - There's no business like showbusiness, and a few key players share much of the Irish business between them - which includes some financial information on Ticketmaster
http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2004/jan/18/leading-a-merry-dance/

Sunday Tribue article 2004 - about service charges and also mentions some of the history of Ticketmaster in Ireland
http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2004/aug/29/ticketmaster-boss-handles-charges-well/

Sunday Tribue article 2004 - mainly about Riverdance but includes some mention of Ticketmaster
http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2004/jan/18/nice-footwork-if-you-can-get-it/

Sunday Business Post article from 2005 - on Ticketmaster profits 2003
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/06/12/story5529.asp

Irish Independent article from 2005 - about excessive fees
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/a-ticket-to-paradiseplus-usual-125-handling-charges-272599.html

Irish Independent article from 2007 - some background to history of Ticketmaster
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/treasured-memories-of-my-great-rival-and-friend-jim-aiken-47895.html

I think that the main Ticketmaster Corporation bought out the original Ticketmaster Ireland investors around 2006 / 2007. And of course Ticketmaster itself was bought out by Live Nation earlier this year.

See also Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticketmaster

rubadub

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I would imagine that it's easier for them to have a per ticket charge rather than a percentage price

It makes them more profit, ridiculous amounts. If I go to a bank to exchange money they will usually have a fixed lower limit service charge, so if I go to buy just £5 sterling they might charge me €3 in fees to cover their time & effort, from then on in its a fair % of the amount to be exchanged or it might just have a single charge overall. What ticketmaster are doing is the equivalent of splitting up this lower limit and charging €3 for every single £5 increment, so to exchange £500 would cost €300 in fees.

The additional cost to process 10 tickets rather than 1 is really only the cost of the paper, which would be pittance, the original ticket price should include the cost of paper anyway.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

AT least I know what it's going to cost me from the outset. (Believe it or not a very large amount of people can't figure out percentages!!)

Yes, some people might have difficulty with %, but the charge is already based on a % (cheaper tickets do not have the full ~€6.50 charge). I very much doubt people would prefer to pay €65 to process 10 tickets, rather than a lower figure! The total appears at the end when you go to checkout, people can make up their minds then. You do not easily know the charge from the outset online unless the ticket is already at the upper limit.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

If tickets.ie are so good, (and from a consumer point of view they are) then why aren't they much bigger and why don't all the major Promoters use them.

I imagine they are a small operation, as ticketmaster have the foothold/monopoly -my main point in mentioning them is 1. to inform people that they exist, and if you are going to small venues check them first, and 2. It really shows what an unreasonable profit ticketmaster are making if a small outfit can charge so much less and yet provide the same service for the exact same gig.

In fact tickets.ie provide a service where you can get messages printed on your tickets, like "happy birthday John" -not important by any means but its a nice feature if you collect your stubs like I do. They also print nasty messages, much to the disgust of my mate

thegeezer

Have read all this with interest and I am still of the opinion that this cowboy style outfit should be referred to the Monopolies and Mergers commission by dint of the FACT that, well they have the monopoly in Ireland.

As for anyone who uses the pathetic excuse that they are the best at what they do, well quite apart from the fact that they are the ONLY at what they do, try telling that to the millions who have waited patiently by the phone or on the website for tickets for the bigger gigs, only to find that the gig is either sold out already, that they wait all day on the phone (or more usually are summarily disconnected) to be told the same, or the hopelessly inadequate infrastructure of the provided website creaks and then crashes at the first sign of any real amounts of traffic.
The best at what they do - don't make me laugh. They are a jumped up little Ryanair style outfit who have greased the right palms and taken advantage of the bertie-style corrupt politics that even in this day and age of recessions, still provides these "entrepreneurs" with the kind of corrupt monopolistic environment which allows them to thrive by ripping off the Irish people.

dudara

Zombie thread - closed

dudara