Glitch in boards, threads disappearing in the Soccer forum

astrofool

So, a thread I created earlier today got deleted. It had 7 replies last I checked, and then up and disappeared. I didn't even see a PM. Surely there must be a glitch in the system to explain this occurrance?

A moderator surely wouldn't go and delete a thread, and not at least warn the creator of the thread, or ask them not to post it again?

We certainly don't encourage nods and winks on this board as to what certain people can get away with, and others can't, do we? After all, the Liverpool Supporters club forum is doing roaring trade.

Anyway, the thread text was as follows, I will restore if that's ok, as there is nothing in the charter of the forum (soccer) against it.

Title:
So now that they're not a laughing stock

Text:

Should the Spurs forum not be integrated back into the main forum? (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=837)

After all, it seemed to be fear of being bullied by fans of the "big 4" that sent them away in the first place, to live in their own little dreamland.

And now that the dreamland has a small root in reality, surely they can play in here with everyone else, and tone down their language against players of other teams.

On another note, now that Liverpool are a mediocre mid table side, do they get their own forum? Or do they have to be relegation threatened before that happens?

Could Mr. Alan and bayviewclose be given their own forum to save the rest of the posters from hearing about a "crazy" season, in which Liverpool have been sh*te.

Nevyn

Did you pm the mods of the forum and ask if it was deleted and if so why?

5starpool

I can see why that thread was deleted, as it is a pointless, been done a million times, thread, as I guess you know.

Xavi6

It was deleted by a moderator (not me), and they are under no obligation to PM you to explain the decision. Whether they actually do or not is up to the individual.

As for the thread itself, it's got nothing to do with soccer, moreso the site itself and it was correctly locked/deleted.

mike65

astrofool don't play the fool

We both knew what would happen as they don't want it discussed.

astrofool

Thaedydal wrote: »

Did you pm the mods of the forum and ask if it was deleted and if so why?

I don't think the mods of the soccer forum know why. They certainly have never given any indication of why threads/posts go missing when the subject has come up before. This is despite requests for the exact same thing for other clubs falling on deaf ears.

So no, I don't believe that the mods of the soccer forum are highly placed enough in the boards hierarchy to have a clue why they might have deleted the thread, hence the thread on here.

Can the decision be explained? Specifically about the double standards, and why one set of supporters can flagrantly break the rules with regards posting, and other supporters can't.

Of course, hoping that this isn't just a love in between some administrators.

As my thread said, the reason for them being seperated away (being a club in crisis) has disappeared, and another team (Liverpool) has taken that mantle, so surely they should be reintegrated, and Liverpool given their own forum instead.

Tom Dunne

astrofool wrote: »

Of course, hoping that this isn't just a love in between some administrators.

What exactly do you mean by this?

astrofool

Tom Dunne wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by this?

Hoping that a section of boards members who support a certain team are being allowed to post in their own forum, and post comments which would see them banned in the main soccer forum, because a certain member of boards is friends with another member of boards (who happens to be an admin).

Is that clear enough? I'd google the meaning, but the results mightn't be pretty :pac:

Xavi6

astrofool wrote: »

Hoping that a section of boards members who support a certain team are being allowed to post in their own forum, and post comments which would see them banned in the main soccer forum, because a certain member of boards is friends with another member of boards (who happens to be an admin).

Is that clear enough? I'd google the meaning, but the results mightn't be pretty :pac:

I presume you have done the research before firing this accusation and of course have examples to illustrate the point?

Dozen Wicked Words

Why DO Spurs have their own forum, outside of soccer?

The Recliner

Seriously there have been multiple threads at this stage about this topic

Spurs have their own forum, it exists, the poilcy is that no more club forums will be created

Get over it

astrofool

Xavi6 wrote: »

I presume you have done the research before firing this accusation and of course have examples to illustrate the point?

While of course spending hours getting individual posts together can be done, a simple search of the Spurs forum for "scum" leads to mountains of results.

Xavi6

astrofool wrote: »

While of course spending hours getting individual posts together can be done, a simple search of the Spurs forum for "scum" leads to mountains of results.

In that case why wasn't your issue directed towards the moderators of the subforum where those rules are in place as opposed to giving us another pain in the arse to deal with when it isn't our problem?

Headshot

the glitch in the matrix

Sully

I assume the OP of the created topic was PMd to notify them that it was removed?

Also, is it practice now to remove threads we don't want open? Iv always kinda assumed spam/abusive topics/posts were deleted, otherwise locked?

Overheal

The Recliner wrote: »

Spurs have their own forum, it exists, the poilcy is that no more club forums will be created

What was the reason behind this? If you dont mind linking it; normally I glaze over soccer issues.

edit: found it. Will read.

astrofool

Xavi6 wrote: »

In that case why wasn't your issue directed towards the moderators of the subforum where those rules are in place as opposed to giving us another pain in the arse to deal with when it isn't our problem?

I think you're losing your train of thought. You asked me for examples, I supplied them to show how the forum was being used to get around rules present in the main soccer forum.

Overheal

astrofool wrote: »

I think you're losing your train of thought. You asked me for examples, I supplied them to show how the forum was being used to get around rules present in the main soccer forum.

You didnt supply any example, you said "just fcuking google it" basically.

Okay Xavi, heres One,

larry1 wrote: »

Result: Blackburn 2-Scum 1

Scum being Arsenal?

Thats kind of like saying how virtually all of the posts in Lolocaust [nein 11] would get you banned from Christianity; After Hours; and The Ladies Lounge and Parenting.

mike65

I love sections 3 and 4 of the charter (esp the time gap between them)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054981969

Overheal

mike65 wrote: »

I love sections 3 and 4 of the charter (esp the time gap between them)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054981969

I stand corrected.

Quazzie

As an Arsenal ran I find huge offence in that forum.

My solution.

I don't go into it. Let the scum have their forum for all I care.

Nevyn

Hang on your bitching that a hosted forum which is not part of the sports cat and not a sub forum of the soccer forum has different rules from the soccer forum?

Dude it's a hosted forum for Spurs fans, it's not part of the soccer mods remit, the rules there are different.
If posters are posting there and then linking back or quoting content which is then 'published' on the soccer forum breaking the rules, then it's something the mods should look at, but other then that, good luck.
IF you want one for your own special little team then ask, or make a socail group.

Ludo

The Recliner wrote: »

Spurs have their own forum, it exists, the poilcy is that no more club forums will be created

Get over it

Thaedydal wrote: »

IF you want one for your own special little team then ask, or make a socail group.

Erm...I believe the refusal to allow any other club have a hosted forum is part of the problem.
None or all surely?

Nevyn

The exsistence of any forum hosted or other wise has never been premise or reason enough to have any other forum created.

Zaph

Ludo wrote: »

Erm...I believe the refusal to allow any other club have a hosted forum is part of the problem.
None or all surely?

I posted this in the thread that Overheal linked to above:

The Spurs forum is a hosted forum that was created back in 2006. It is specifically the Spurs Supporters Club forum, as opposed to the Spurs forum, and it was intended that it would be used mainly for supporters club activities such as tickets and travel arrangements. Despite assurances to the contrary, inevitably it ended up being a forum for everything Spurs related, to the detriment of the main soccer forum imo. The Spurs superthread in the main soccer forum hasn't had a post in over 2 months, and if individual forums for other teams were created this would further take from the main forum. Should there ever be a complete reorganisation of the soccer forum in the future it is possible that separate club forums may be considered, but under the current structure it's not going to happen.

Since I posted that there have been posts in the Spurs thread. There have been a total of 36 posts there since the start of the year.

Overheal

Zaph wrote: »

Since I posted that there have been posts in the Spurs thread. There have been a total of 36 posts there since the start of the year.

So you would advocate re-assimilating the Spurs Supporters Club Forum?

The only other thing you can do is restructure the SSCF and have a CMod or Admin etc. Clamp down on that sort of thing.

mike65

Logic would suggest that would be logical but sometimes logic isn't the answer.

Zaph

Overheal wrote: »

So you would advocate re-assimilating the Spurs Supporters Club Forum?

Well it's not quite as straightforward as that. I do think that for the greater good of the soccer forum it might be better to close the Spurs forum and let the Spurs fans use the superthread like all other fans do. But the question then is whether it's right to penalise one set of fans who have had their own forum just to stop a load of other fans complaining about this fact? To me, the problem arose when the forum was created, this was a wrong decision and the future implications weren't clearly thought out. I should stress that these are my own opinions, not the collective opinions of the admins as this isn't something that I've discussed with them.

Overheal wrote: »

The only other thing you can do is restructure the SSCF and have a CMod or Admin etc. Clamp down on that sort of thing.

That's never going to happen. One of the primary arguments against club-specific forums is that it would be impossible to get impartial mods for them. For example, I support Leeds, why would I want to spend my time modding a Spurs forum? And I don't mean any disrespect to Spurs fans with that comment, it goes for all club forums that aren't Leeds. The same goes for any of the soccer mods, and we can't really justify assigning a CMod or admin just to one specific hosted forum.

astrofool

Overheal wrote: »

You didnt supply any example, you said "just fcuking google it" basically.

Xavi came back implying that I needed the minutae of examples from the forum, when, as you say, just fcuking googling it (or using forum search) is far quicker.

I'm not a fan of every club getting it's own forum, it has been to the detriment of the main board that Spurs got their own, without justification, and with that, are allowed to ban fans of another team, just for being a fan of another team.

Now, boards.ie is a private entity, and it can do what it wants. BUT, it's a really really crappy way to treat members by allowing one set of fans something, and not allowing the others.

There's no reason why Spurs fans couldn't use the Soccer Tickets and Travel forum for what the Spurs forum was originally set up to do, and then reintegrate the forum.

They could also set up a group.

The exsistence(sic) of any forum hosted or other wise has never been premise or reason enough to have any other forum created.

No it's not, but it is being an as*hat to arbitrarily give one group something, and not another. I don't think the as*hat themselves could argue that one.

astrofool

Oh, and it's also being an as*hat to delete a thread, have a thread on it posted here, and still not at least have the good will to give a proper reason for it's deletion.

monkey9

I've never understood why there was a separate Spurs forum!! It's just bizarre! It doesn't make sense.

The allegations that it only came into existense because of friends 'in power' on Boards really needs to be looked at.

I was in favour at one time of having seperate forums for individual clubs, but i've since come to the conclusion that that is not right for Boards!

But why is the Spurs forum still going? Why Spurs? Why any club? There either is or there isn't a Soccer Forum?!!

Mr Alan

i'm guessing this was the reason as stated earlier in this thread.

Xavi6 wrote: »

As for the thread itself, it's got nothing to do with soccer, moreso the site itself and it was correctly locked/deleted.

tips hat. . .walks away

Mr Alan

monkey9 wrote:

But why is the Spurs forum still going? Why Spurs? Why any club? There either is or there isn't a Soccer Forum?!!

imo, the forum being made was a mistake. as is rightly being pointed out, for one club to have one, and not the others is unfair. however, its not the mistake of the majority of posters there who've built a good community and nice place for spurs fans to chill out and chat, so while i do think it was a bad idea for the forum to have been allowed in the first place-it would be massively unfair to want to take it away now after a few years. two wrongs don't make a right, and all that jazz.

Iago

astrofool wrote: »

Oh, and it's also being an as*hat to delete a thread, have a thread on it posted here, and still not at least have the good will to give a proper reason for it's deletion.

but it's not being an as*hat to post a thread having a go at a team and a set of supporters and a position that has been argued extensively over and over again in the wrong forum for no other reason than begrudgery

Spiritoftheseventies

That club forum seems to working fine from what I can see. I know a spurs fan and dont buy into this notion that the club forum was set up because of the fear of being bullied by big four supporters.
Think most of us were delighted they got the fourth spot really. Fair play to them. Where I think you went wrong Astrofool is you went off on a completely different tangent in last two pars.

Xavi6

astrofool wrote: »

I think you're losing your train of thought. You asked me for examples, I supplied them to show how the forum was being used to get around rules present in the main soccer forum.

I'm not losing anything. Your examples are from a forum that is outside the Soccer forum yet you posted the thread in Soccer.

Why? It is a seperate entity and nothing to do with us.

astrofool

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not losing anything. Your examples are from a forum that is outside the Soccer forum yet you posted the thread in Soccer.

Why? It is a seperate entity and nothing to do with us.

So a thread asking soccer fans about reintegrating the spurs forum into soccer, has nothing to do with soccer?

RoundyMooney

Well, like it or not, they're two seperate communities aren't they? (although some might be members of both).

Whatever genesis the Spurs forum might have had, it's there now, and it's established, and to mess with it would be unfair to those in it. It's also Hosted, so not part of the boards family of sites in a direct sense.

Personally, I think that to create it in the first place, and not others on request, was a mistake. There are so many different clubs for example that it would be impossible to cater for them all. It's there now, and the only solution I see is to live with it.

The Soccer forum is a different beast altogether, and taking moderation there as opposed to a hosted (and fairly exclusive, it would seem) forum is something of a non starter.

We are where we are, as Biffo sez.

Spiritoftheseventies

astrofool wrote: »

So a thread asking soccer fans about reintegrating the spurs forum into soccer, has nothing to do with soccer?

If anything else, I dont think spurs fans would agree to it for one reason and one reason only.
As you can see in TRS's charter below, it expressely forbids one set of supporters from posting there. If that forum is merged into main soccer forum, the dynamic changes immediately.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52652761&postcount=4

Xavi6

astrofool wrote: »

So a thread asking soccer fans about reintegrating the spurs forum into soccer, has nothing to do with soccer?

It has nothing to do with the Soccer forum.

The same rules don't apply, the Soccer mods have no control over it and, as I already said, it's completely seperate.

The issue is not a Soccer forum one and asking the members should they have to come back in is pointless because that is not a decision to be made by Average Joe poster.

The thred should've been in Feedback or Help Desk to begin with.

Dozen Wicked Words

So, in summary, the randomness of having a forum now for spurs is agreed, its just not a soccer mod problem, its up to boards big bosses to decide to do away with it. I think spurs fans would like to be back in the mainstream now their team are goin places

Spiritoftheseventies

dooferoaks wrote: »

So, in summary, the randomness of having a forum now for spurs is agreed, its just not a soccer mod problem, its up to boards big bosses to decide to do away with it. I think spurs fans would like to be back in the mainstream now their team are goin places

Again, if they dont want arsenal fans posting on their private forum do you think one season will bridge what seems to be a gulf between the two supporters What happens if spurs drop out of top four again. Will the ribbing start again. Maybe TheRecklessstone should give his opinion on this as he is the man behind the Spurs hosted forum

astrofool

but it's not being an as*hat to post a thread having a go at a team and a set of supporters and a position that has been argued extensively over and over again in the wrong forum for no other reason than begrudgery

The correct forum was chosen, I don't believe I was wearing my ass as a hat when I was making the thread, the gist of which was now that Spurs are a successful club, that they could coexist in the main soccer forum peacefully, rather than in their own discrimination and name calling garden.

Xavi6 wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the Soccer forum.

It has everything to do with the soccer forum and it's structure. Even if the thread was to be created here, then it should also be ok to post a thread in soccer and spurs to point the Soccer and Spurs forum members to the thread. The poll was aimed at members of the soccer forum, what idiot would not put that poll in the soccer forum?

Anyway, it sounds like all boards admins seem to agree that the Spurs forum should:
a) not have been allowed
b) not be used the way it is being used according to the reasons it was set up for.
c) not be discriminating against one clubs supporters

If WhiteWashMan has been a Liverpool supporter, the main soccer forum would be a very different beast today.

The admins f*cked up, and the mods are powerless to do anything about it (bar deleting threads to stop the issue being discussed, from a site made for discussion).

They could at least tackle this by limiting the Spurs forum back to it's original intent, and thus foster growth in the main forum.

Let the disfunction and idiocy continue I guess. Some forum members are really more equal than others (as long as they support Spurs).

astrofool

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Again, if they dont want arsenal fans posting on their private forum do you think one season will bridge what seems to be a gulf between the two supporters What happens if spurs drop out of top four again. Will the ribbing start again. Maybe TheRecklessstone should give his opinion on this as he is the man behind the Spurs hosted forum

The forum was not created to allow posters to escape other fans. That is what it turned into, when it was explicitly not to be used this way, when set up.

It's also not a private forum.

It's a hosted forum, and the admins won't let other teams set up hosted forums along the same lines, because they don't have an admin who is a fan of the other teams.

Spiritoftheseventies

astrofool wrote: »

The forum was not created to allow posters to escape other fans. That is what it turned into, when it was explicitly not to be used this way, when set up.

It's also not a private forum.

It's a hosted forum, and the admins won't let other teams set up hosted forums along the same lines, because they don't have an admin who is a fan of the other teams.

Im at odds to know why any mod would want Spurs back into forum if there is any risk that Arsenal and Spurs fans are going to be taking digs at each other should things go pearshaped for Spurs again.
Spurs fans clearly dont want to interact with Arsenal fans. That as much is stated in the updated charter set out by TRS.
For spurs forum to go back into the main forum I think the laws on trolling would have to tightened.
Arsenal fans and spurs fars if they interact on main SF will by nature have some problems with each other.
How long before it spills over.
And seeing you brought my name into your last OP and now that Im a bit more calmed down despite what went on here yesterday with a certain thread I can state that I have no problems with Liverpool remaining thread as it is. I wouldn't object to a club forum at same time either but can live with the status quo.
But we pool fans unlike spurs fan do have to put up with the odd bit of tom foolery from the other side. Thats not in dispute by anyone.
So how opposing fans behave on rival threads needs to be dealt with. And if Spurs fans are re-integrated into main SF, dont be expecting a lovefest between the Spurs and Arsenal fans
It wont take much to set things off between the two. Clearly there was a reason for the ban on Arsenal fans posting in Spurs hosted forum. If anything Spurs being successful will increase the tensions betweent the two now.

Xavi6

The admins f*cked up, and the mods are powerless to do anything about it (bar deleting threads to stop the issue being discussed, from a site made for discussion).

It'd be helpful if you lost the tinfoil hat.

Your thread and poll would have served no purpose other than to cause needless hassle in the soccer forum.

It was completely pointless because you could have had a 100% vote in favour of culling the Spurs forum and still the admins could tell you where to go.

It's their site and if they made a forum then that's the way it is. This has been discussed numerous times before and the outcome is always the same.

Build a bridge.

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 wrote: »

It'd be helpful if you lost the tinfoil hat.

Your thread and poll would have served no purpose other than to cause needless hassle in the soccer forum.

It was completely pointless because you could have had a 100% vote in favour of culling the Spurs forum and still the admins could tell you where to go.

It's their site and if they made a forum then that's the way it is. This has been discussed numerous times before and the outcome is always the same.

Build a bridge.

at the same time xavi do you think its worth discussing on our summer forum. Spurs will be a top four team next year so not having them on main SF will look a bit odd without them. At this stage would be nice to hear a contribution from one of their fans.

Xavi6

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

at the same time xavi do you think its worth discussing on our summer forum. Spurs will be a top four team next year so not having them on main SF will look a bit odd without them. At this stage would be nice to hear a contribution from one of their fans.

They can say what they like but it will make no difference. Nobody from the Soccer forum can create/disband a forum.

The topic has been done and done and done again. Flogging a dead horse at this stage so no, I don't it's worth discussing in any review because that is for issues which can be resolved within the forum. The Spurs fiasco does not fall under that banner.

The Recliner

astrofool wrote: »

Anyway, it sounds like all boards admins seem to agree that the Spurs forum should:
a) not have been allowed
b) not be used the way it is being used according to the reasons it was set up for.
c) not be discriminating against one clubs supporters

Just for clarity an Admin gave his opinion as a soccer forum user not as a representative of the Admins, he clearly stated it was his opinion and not that of the Admins as he hadn't discussed it with them

They may well agree with what you have posted but they haven't actually said what you are claiming they have

Dub13

I was the mod who deleted the thread,as has been stated above this is not a soccer forum issue the soccer mods have no control over it.From experience we can tell what way these types of threads are likely to go and I feel if that thread was left it would have turned into a car crash fast.

In normal circumstances I would lock the thread and post a reason why so everybody was aware,but on this occasion I considered the thread to be on the mild end of trolling so decided it was best to delete it.

What do I mean by mild trolling,lets take a look at the poll question and options for a start....

Should the Spurs Forum be integrated into "Soccer"?

Spurs Fan: Let me hide away

Spurs Fan: I'm a big girl now, let me face the big big world

Other: Keep them away, this forum is serious business

Other: That would be delightful, I like discussing tictacs with the fans of ALL teams

This is not the kind of post/poll we encourage on the soccer forum,you also took a dig at two soccer forum posters and one group of fans.You are also giving out that you were not sent a PM about the thread been deleted,well I think you should be happy you went not sent a PM with a infraction.

I hope this explains my taught process.

Dub13

astrofool

Xavi6 wrote: »

They can say what they like but it will make no difference. Nobody from the Soccer forum can create/disband a forum.

The topic has been done and done and done again. Flogging a dead horse at this stage so no, I don't it's worth discussing in any review because that is for issues which can be resolved within the forum. The Spurs fiasco does not fall under that banner.

The topic hasn't been done again and again. Any posts on the topic get deleted.

Whether the soccer forums opinion will make a difference to the admins is beside the point, the forum members should at least be able to make their opinions known.

Yes, the poll options were tongue in cheek:

Should the Spurs Forum be integrated into "Soccer"?
Spurs Fan: Let me hide away
Spurs Fan: I'm a big girl now, let me face the big big world
Other: Keep them away, this forum is serious business
Other: That would be delightful, I like discussing tictacs with the fans of ALL teams

But in line with a lot of polls around boards and the soccer forum, and it would be good to gauge the forums reaction now that the reason for the Spurs forum existing in the first place have changed (i.e. they don't really have a reason to hide away anymore, and should be able to play nice with supporters of other clubs).

It would be great to see a real admins opinion as well I guess, do they even care? Does this even register on their radar? A lot seem to see the soccer forum as an annoyance, more than anything (this going from the general gist of replies from admins on restructuring the forum).

The Spurs forum existing also undermines any later decisions made by admins/mods on the structure of the Soccer forum.

Also, the first few replies on the thread were not of the car crash variety. It's good to see Dub13 holds the soccer forum members in such high esteem.