KCC/Castletown backlots.

Altered state of mind

Has Kildare Co.Co. circularised the initiative referred to below to the residents of Castletown ?
Who is the nominated representative?
Who nominated and elected him/her?
Who in Kildare County Council is liaising with this nominated representative?
Did I blink and miss something or is Kildare County Council doing this behind closed doors?
Surely the issue of land previously taken in by residents backing onto backlots should be dealt with before proceeding to dispose of more land. Land that was designated green/open space as a condition of planning for Castletown estate.

"The initiative should be led by Castletown Residents and where appropriate supported by the Council in the discharge of it’s statutory functions.


1. the Castletown residents confirm their nominated representative to engage with Kildare County Council in relation to this matter.

2. a site visit be arranged for the Celbridge Area Committee Members to examine the areas in question

3. Kildare County Council confirm the areas it considers suitable for transfer of title, subject to agreement between all parties on proposed developments.

4. The Castletown Residents prepare for submission and approval to Kildare Co. Council. Their agreed proposals for the areas considered suitable for transfer title.

The Area Committee will be kept informed of developments. "

I believe that whoever the representive may be, he/she should be capapable of bringing the proposals of all concerned residents to the council. As this has been a contentious issue for some years it needs someone who is capable of taking on board the views of all concerned and reaching a fair and balanced solution.
Anyone with an interest in any of the backlots / open spaces needs to prepare proposals to be brought to the council by the representative .


http://www.kildare.ie/community/CatherineMurphy/2010/03/celbridge_area_committee_some.html

I note that the Area Committee are to be kept informed of the developements is there any possibility that someone might inform the residents?

soulsearcher

This has dragged on for years. Presumably the council in an effort to get closure on the matter will close off the backlotts. If they own the land I imagine they will dispose of it as they see fit.

second

I see that the Residents are having an EGM on the 25th of May to deal with this. From what I know, it has dragged on for years and there have been various attempts to resolve the issue. With KCC eventually taking the estate in charge, I think there is now better chance of this issue actually being put to bed so to speak.
I was on to them and they have someone who has dealt with the backlotts for the last number of years and seems to know everything there is to know about the subject but they seem quite frustrated with the complications up to now that have been involved. They say that KCC are now dealing with the issue in a concerted way and want to resolve it this year - here's hoping !

Altered state of mind

When was the egm date decided. We didn't receive any notification of this.
What exactly is on the agenda for discussion. Why arent the residents association or the council keeping the residents up to date with this. There is no mention of an egm on the CRA website.
What is going on between KCC and the CRA.
Come on you guys spill the beans.
Nice try CRA : Castletown North and Castletown South, divide and conqour wont work. Green open spaces should mean exactly what it says on the tin.

Altered state of mind

second wrote: »

I was on to them and they have someone who has dealt with the backlotts for the last number of years and seems to know everything there is to know about the subject but they seem quite frustrated with the complications up to now that have been involved. They say that KCC are now dealing with the issue in a concerted way and want to resolve it this year - here's hoping !

Who is this person?

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

Who is this person?

Planning permission was applied for in 1992 by certain person/s to extend their gardens into the green open spaces which were (and still are) the designated amenity areas for all the Castletown residents.

Perhaps this might answer your question. Check out File no. 92/1002

http://webgis.kildarecoco.ie/planningenquirysystem/MainFrames.aspx

It is worth noting that those who are hoping for closure are most likely to be the few who stand to gain at the expense of the majority. The green open spaces are designated amenity areas for the benefit of all Castletown residents. The excuse of anti-social behaviour is pathetic. If some of the amenity areas get closed off, the anti-social behaviour just gets moved on and becomes more concentrated in the few remaining areas. This has already happened as some of the backlots have been closed off by certain residents.

A few years ago Castletown residents were asked to submit suggestions for the use of these backlots, addressed to Simon Wallace, Parks Department, Kildare Co. Council (address below). It is better to deal directly with the council on this issue, rather than through a third party. The CRA does not have a mandate to act as our representative/s on this issue.

Mr. Simon Wallace,
Parks Department,
Áras Chill Dara,
Devoy Park,
Naas,
Co Kildare

Altered state of mind

How can we deal directly with the council when they have asked for a nominated representative.
According to KCC's website Dave Kenny of the housing section is dealing with this matter. http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/CorporateAffairs/CorporateServices/Meetings/CelbridgeArea/2010/Minutes/MeetingTitle,21457,en.html

second

Hi Altered,
Jees ! I was only letting people know what I had found out - I don't have all the answers !! I suggest that people that Do want to find out goes to the EGM - obviously they have been working on this issue if there is an EGM ????
Regarding the signs - come on - they're nice - what's this about divide and conquer - divide and conquer who ? Sometimes I wonder why people would bother ever trying to do anything !

Altered state of mind

Reading through the archived minutes and agendas of the monthly meetings on KCC's website it would seem that hardly a month goes by without some councillor or other raising the issue of the backlots. Reports are given, dates set for meeetings with representatives , a site vist was even arranged.
If KCC are serious about resolving this issue why are the residents not being regularly uptpdated.
If the CRA are serious about representing all the residents why are they not informing them of the "progress" they have been making on their behalf.
With only 3 weeks to the egm we need the information upfront now.
On what basis has KCC accepted the CRA as representative of all the people of Castletown.
Not all residents are members of the CRA and not all members of the residents association necessarily agree with the views of the Committee.:mad:

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

How can we deal directly with the council when they have asked for a nominated representative.
According to KCC's website Dave Kenny of the housing section is dealing with this matter.

I see what you mean. This was back in February.

CE20/02/2010
Backlots, Castletown,Celbridge

The committee considered the following motion in the name of Councillor Murphy:
Can we set a date to visit the internal backlots in Castletown, Celbridge?
Mr Dave Kenny of the housing section gave a report on this item and agreed to meet the members on site within the following weeks, he stressed that the council would engage with this process however the residents must also be involved.
Resolved: That Mr Kenny meet with the members on site to progress this item further.

However, I am finding it impossible to get a clear picture of this. For example, Who is giving these orders and setting up this 'initiative'? I will have to find out more about it tomorrow and get back to you. It looks like some plans that affect all of us are being made behind closed doors, by persons as yet unknown to us. This is unacceptable!

The Raven.

second wrote: »

Hi Altered,
Jees ! I was only letting people know what I had found out - I don't have all the answers !! I suggest that people that Do want to find out goes to the EGM - obviously they have been working on this issue if there is an EGM ????
Regarding the signs - come on - they're nice - what's this about divide and conquer - divide and conquer who ? Sometimes I wonder why people would bother ever trying to do anything !

Where did you find out that there was going to be an EGM?

As for the signs, anyone I have spoken to thought they were a joke :rolleyes:! Whoever put those there never gave a second thought to whether anyone else wanted them.

Altered state of mind

second wrote: »

Hi Altered,
Jees ! I was only letting people know what I had found out - I don't have all the answers !! I suggest that people that Do want to find out goes to the EGM - obviously they have been working on this issue if there is an EGM ????
!

Thanks for letting us know. It would be hard for anyone to have all the answers with the secrecy surrounding the dealings between KCC and the CRA.

soulsearcher

The Raven. wrote: »

As for the signs, anyone I have spoken to thought they were a joke :rolleyes:! Whoever put those there never gave a second thought to whether anyone else wanted them.

Not a very funny joke more of a sad reflection on those responsible.

second

I was talking to one of the members. I know there are leaflets being delivered also - maybe not everywhere has got them yet.
I do know that the residents committee seem to have been quite frustrated with what seemed to be back and forward with nothing ever happening. Maybe - and this is just giving a 'alter' view to this - what are they to do really if there was no real information or move until recently ? This new person in the KCC seems to have a part to play then in things moving forward ? Maybe it's only now that the residents group has actually got any new news of substance and that's why they are calling an EGM ?? To my mind that would be fair enough. They can't call to every single person everytime someone says boo ! Maybe the EGM tells all ? Maybe they are trying to act in best interest ? Maybe they re doing their best ? Maybe, maybe, maybe !!!
I do feel though that I feel a little bad when I see them doing clean ups or planting and I drive by them - seems to be small enough group trying to do things.
Regarding the signs - I like them - but no - I was'nt asked - but would the council ask ? I was'nt asked either when they cut the grass in the open areas or planted new plants at the 'north' entrance !
I'm not arguing with you lads but come on - if there are people out there that give their time to try and do some good on behalf of everyone - give them a break - no one's perfect and as the saying goes -'you can't please all the people all the time' !

The Raven.

Altered state of mind wrote: »

Reading through the archived minutes and agendas of the monthly meetings on KCC's website it would seem that hardly a month goes by without some councillor or other raising the issue of the backlots. Reports are given, dates set for meeetings with representatives , a site vist was even arranged.
If KCC are serious about resolving this issue why are the residents not being regularly uptpdated.
If the CRA are serious about representing all the residents why are they not informing them of the "progress" they have been making on their behalf.
With only 3 weeks to the egm we need the information upfront now.
On what basis has KCC accepted the CRA as representative of all the people of Castletown.
Not all residents are members of the CRA and not all members of the residents association necessarily agree with the views of the Committee.:mad:

It seems as if the councillors are being pestered by a person or persons to close up these backlots and hand them to the residents living next to them for free. They have been trying this since the early 90s.

As for the CRA, this is nothing new. They didn’t hold an election at the last AGM or the one before it. They just keep electing themselves. They most certainly are not representing the residents in general on this issue, and KCC and the relevant councillors need to be made aware of this.

soulsearcher

The Raven. wrote: »

I see what you mean. This was back in February.



However, I am finding it impossible to get a clear picture of this. For example, Who is giving these orders and setting up this 'initiative'? I will have to find out more about it tomorrow and get back to you. It looks like some plans that affect all of us are being made behind closed doors, by persons as yet unknown to us. This is unacceptable!

I wish you luck getting a clear picture on this one.
The fact that some areas were already closed off prior to this "initiave " , despite KCC requesting that people refrain from doing so , has surely muddied the waters.
KCC don't have a clear picture , given the reccomendation by Catherine Murphy that they seek the advice of other councils that have dealt with similar issues.
So we have a council that doesn't know what to do liaising with a representative who is unknown to the residents but is meant to bring the views of all residents to the council. A surefire recipe for clarity indeed!

soulsearcher

I take your point Second the CRA do a lot of very good work.
But given the contentious nature of this issue it needs to be dealt with openly and transparently.

The Raven.

second wrote: »

I was talking to one of the members. I know there are leaflets being delivered also - maybe not everywhere has got them yet.

The leaflets that were delivered recently only mentioned an AGM on the 11th May. No mention of an EGM.

With all due respect, I have heard all your other arguments before and they don't really wash. We are talking here about the legal rights of the residents in Castletown, which are not too complicated to understand. These rights cannot be diminished on a whim without proper consultation and agreement of each and every resident in the estate.

soulsearcher

It would seem to me that those rights are being ignored. KCC seem happy enough to deal with this anonimous individual. Presumaby that is their idea of proper consultation with all residents.

The Raven.

soulsearcher wrote: »

I wish you luck getting a clear picture on this one.
The fact that some areas were already closed off prior to this "initiave " , despite KCC requesting that people refrain from doing so , has surely muddied the waters.
KCC don't have a clear picture , given the reccomendation by Catherine Murphy that they seek the advice of other councils that have dealt with similar issues.
So we have a council that doesn't know what to do liaising with a representative who is unknown to the residents but is meant to bring the views of all residents to the council. A surefire recipe for clarity indeed!

That paints a pretty disgraceful picture indeed! I will try to seek clarification, as it affects us all.

second

Just a thought but when they refer to a 'representative' of the residents - could they mean the association themselves as being the representative ?They would afterall be the actual single 'representative' body of the residents be it on this issue or others ??
Anyway, glad to see that some progress seems to be happening, afterall, we all know how long it took and the roundabouts that were experienced with regard to the taking in charge process. A lot of people thought there were cloaks and daggers there when in fact it was just plain complicated.

Had a look at the group's web and there's a link on this page for the EGM. It also states about backlotts on the AGM agenda. I received our leaflet about the EGM today ! ( Did'nt notice it until I found it on my countertop a few mins ago !! ). Here's the link ;
http://www.castletownresidentsassociation.com/5.html

On the fence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULjCSK0oOlI&feature=related

Paul Simon said "Get these mutts away from me , you know, I don't find this stuff amusing anymore".
On the contrary it becomes more amusing and fascinating. As a "blow in" to Castletown North I wonder about all these "incidents and accidents hints and allegations"
It does not seem too long ago that people were horrified when the OPW considered erecting a fence around Castletown House. Woe betide anyone who sought to fence Castletown residents out of their precious green open space. That attitude might seem ok.
Or is it? On further reading into this it seems some residents have already fenced off green open space to the exclusion of the rest of the residents.
Is this a case of the tail wagging the dog in the manger?
Then I wake up thinking I'm in a dream or worse still a nightmare. I find I am now living in Castletown North and ponder how our brethren in the South feel about being segregated from us.
Was Johnathan Swift prophetic in bequeathing money to build a psychiatric hospital? Did he foresee the schizophrenic nature of the future Castletown?
Maybe now is a good time to crack a few nuts.
People of Castletown North and South don't be taken in by the slick words of some supposedly proposed policy or other.
Read between the lines before the open green disappears into space.
I am looking forward to the next two amusing and entertaining episodes i.e. the AGM and the EGM. Must remember to renew my subscription as I wouldn’t want to risk exclusion on the night.

Altered state of mind

second wrote: »

A lot of people thought there were cloaks and daggers there when in fact it was just plain complicated.

http://www.castletownresidentsassociation.com/5.html

The Raven. : We are talking here about the legal rights of the residents in Castletown, which are not too complicated to understand.

I guess people can make things complicated when it suits them.

second

I rang one of the members this morning. To be honest, he said they have come from a stage of only having 3 people trying to do everything to now having more people there to help out on the committee.
For years there has been negotiations regarding the backlotts which never really came to a conclusion which has been frustrating everyone just the same as the taking in charge. Now it seems as though there is someone in KCC who is actually only recently on board and tasked with resolving the issue. ( he said )
He stated that for a long period of time there actually was NO progress on the issue no matter what was tried with KCC and nothing new to report. It has only been in the last couple of weeks that any form of definite progress has really been made and that as soon as something concrete was put forward by KCC, they immediately went to call for an EGM to put it to everyone in the estate. He said it was too important to have a rushed debate on it at the AGM although there will be an update and detail for the EGM given by the member who has been working on this for years on behalf of Castletown, with the KCC.
In fairness, he said that they were trying to do their best on lots of different issues but acknowledged that yes, there are areas that they still need to work on - they "would like to have a P.R.O. who could help with getting all the information out there all the time" but as of yet dont. They had been "delivering newsletters regularly until they were complained to about delivering junk mail" !!!
They have a web site which they try to keep updated as much as possible ( most associations dont have one ) but once again he said it's hard without having someone dedicated to that area to keep on top of everything - "everyone is voluntary and gives of their time freely" and as a result, everyone is trying their best but yes, some things fall "through the cracks".
When I asked about 'unknown representative' he said the association were keeping the issue live with constant pressure on the KCC to come to a resolution that would be such as to suit the views of residents- and that is why the EGM has been called - to get these views. The last round of 'views' was some years ago when it was thought they might have been coming to a final resolution but that did'nt happen and that they now need to get the up to date views of residents and put them forward.
There was lots more he explained, which I for one now actually appreciate and see where they're coming from.
This is my summary of what I got from the conversation, but please don't quote my quotes as this is my take on it for what it's worth.
Anyway, just letting you know what I found out.

Fire_fly

Altered state of mind wrote: »

If the CRA are serious about representing all the residents why are they not informing them of the "progress" they have been making on their behalf.
With only 3 weeks to the egm we need the information upfront now.
On what basis has KCC accepted the CRA as representative of all the people of Castletown.
Not all residents are members of the CRA and not all members of the residents association necessarily agree with the views of the Committee.:mad:

I'm sure I'm putting my head on a chopping block here but what the hell...
Castletown estate has approx 770 house...the CRA committee has approx 10 members...
The committee is open to all members of the estate and all help is appreciated and very much needed, their are subcommittees in place so people can pick and choose which areas they are interested in or be involved in all areas, they meet the 1st Tuesday of every month in the Kildrought downstairs..no secret passwords of disguises needed..just bring your owning drink money! The CRA cannot inform people about something in which they have very little information on, they have not been selected by KCC to represent the residents and have not formed one joint opinion on what should be done with these areas.
I attended my first AGM as a resident last year for this particular topic, the dreaded back-lots/green areas, it is MY opinion that these areas should be cleaned up, secured at night and open during the day for all the children to use. I grew up in this estate spending most of my summer days playing in these areas..why should my children be any different.. they are our areas...and I am prepared to fight for them.
I'm one of those people that you drive by, out cleaning and planting and sweeping this estate on my time, I've shed blood (many a blister) sweat and I'm sure tears after tomorrows AGM....it really bugs me to read some of the stuff posted about this estate and the way its managed...action speak louder than words...so get up off your computer chair and get out and do something..
Looking forward to seeing you all especially you Raven at our next clean-up...

second

Wow !

Fire_fly

Yeah maybe a bit OTT - sorry it's not a mellow Monday!!

second

After digesting that, I'd like to say thanks to you and the other helpers that do put in the effort to try and keep the estate looking in good condition. I wonder just how it would look if there was no one out doing it - terrible I expect.
I get the feeling that there is frustration at the lack of support ? or lack of getting anywhere with whatever issues cause problems ? Is that because of the departments you are dealing with or is it just that there are not enough of you to do it ?
I personally could'nt see myself getting involved as it seems like a pure thankless job if what is shown here is anything to go by, but I do commend your collective efforts. I do also see the concerns of others also but....take it easy people - these are volunteers ! Volunteers who from what I can see and hear, are doing their best while the rest of us all float along.

dustfree

Maybe instead of muddying the waters with talk of 'Castletown north' and 'Castletown south', which is just a geographical designation to help visitors find addresses in the estate, people should actually go the meetings and put themselves forward and get involved. I got notice of the EGM today and will certainly go that meeting to get an up to date on the whole back-lots issue.

Fire_fly

Your right Second it is a thankless job and I was a floater..but I wanted something done and the best way to get something done is to do it yourself, so they say..and I've met some funny and interesting people in the process..

Anyone who has had any dealing with KCC will know the brick walls you hit over and over again and again!!

second

Just a clarification - the signs at both entrances - I've seen them - they say ;
North "entrance", South "entrance",
not just north and south.
I think you're right - no sign ( excuse the pun ) of trying to segregate the estate, just plain and simple signs !

The Raven.

Fire_fly wrote: »

I attended my first AGM as a resident last year for this particular topic, the dreaded back-lots/green areas, it is MY opinion that these areas should be cleaned up, secured at night and open during the day for all the children to use. I grew up in this estate spending most of my summer days playing in these areas..why should my children be any different.. they are our areas...and I am prepared to fight for them.

Yes I agree with all of that. Good for you!

I'm one of those people that you drive by, out cleaning and planting and sweeping this estate on my time, I've shed blood (many a blister) sweat and I'm sure tears after tomorrows AGM....it really bugs me to read some of the stuff posted about this estate and the way its managed...action speak louder than words...so get up off your computer chair and get out and do something..
Looking forward to seeing you all especially you Raven at our next clean-up...

I will take that last sentence as a compliment, although it probably wasn't meant as such.

I would like to point out that I do go out and clean the street and pavements in our area with my neighbours when we decide to do it, not under orders from the CRA!

It should also be noted that I have spent months and months working on the CRA to save the Gazebo ON MY COMPUTER! I make no apologies for that! You can blame KCC for not enforcing the Enforcement Notice that we managed to secure. I have spent the last two years doing work with my colleagues fighting to save Celbridge from the horrendous Donaghcumper development, a situation that would seriously affect all Castletown residents, mostly ON MY COMPUTER! No apologies for that either!

The Raven.

On the fence wrote: »

It does not seem too long ago that people were horrified when the OPW considered erecting a fence around Castletown House. Woe betide anyone who sought to fence Castletown residents out of their precious green open space. That attitude might seem ok.

That isn't the worst of it. The OPW are now intending to erect an ugly palisade fence around our largest piece of green open space, which extends into Castletown woods, (with the help of KCC), in a shameless land grab!

Or is it? On further reading into this it seems some residents have already fenced off green open space to the exclusion of the rest of the residents.
Is this a case of the tail wagging the dog in the manger?

'Some residents' indeed! I don't know who the 'dog in the manger' is supposed to be ?? You seem to contradict this below.

People of Castletown North and South don't be taken in by the slick words of some supposedly proposed policy or other.
Read between the lines before the open green disappears into space.

Sound advice!

second

Fair play to you Raven for your efforts on the Gazebo and your clean up efforts. I would like to point out that there are a lot of areas in the estate that have a lot of older residents who are not in a position to clean up their areas. There are also a lot of residents who are not bothered about the state of their immediate area. That's where the "community clean up" is a good idea.

I have heard a lot of people complaining about the Gazebo (including me). A lot of us had thought the KCC and the association had given up on this issue!! I wasn't aware there were people working behind the scene trying to save it.

Maybe though you might also take it that the association and like minded people have also been working "behind the scene" trying to sort out the backlotts without this being noticed ? Maybe they have been trying to push it along all the time but like someone earlier said - they are hitting a brick wall or obstacles ? After all, it seems as if this is what has happened with the Gazebo ? Even though you managed to secure an Enforcement Notice it's 2 years on and still nothing done!!
Anyway, thanks to you and the association for your efforts.

The Raven.

Fire_fly wrote: »

Anyone who has had any dealing with KCC will know the brick walls you hit over and over again and again!!

On some issues yes, especially inappropriate planning permissions granted. However, there are some good people there also who are extremely kind and helpful. The Planning Department even ignores the expert advice of its own Architectural Conservation officer.

The Raven.

second wrote: »

Fair play to you Raven for your efforts on the Gazebo and your clean up efforts. I would like to point out that there are a lot of areas in the estate that have a lot of older residents who are not in a position to clean up their areas. There are also a lot of residents who are not bothered about the state of their immediate area. That's where the "community clean up" is a good idea.

I have heard a lot of people complaining about the Gazebo (including me). A lot of us had thought the KCC and the association had given up on this issue!! I wasn't aware there were people working behind the scene trying to save it.

Maybe though you might also take it that the association and like minded people have also been working "behind the scene" trying to sort out the backlotts without this being noticed ? Maybe they have been trying to push it along all the time but like someone earlier said - they are hitting a brick wall or obstacles ? After all, it seems as if this is what has happened with the Gazebo ? Even though you managed to secure an Enforcement Notice it's 2 years on and still nothing done!!
Anyway, thanks to you and the association for your efforts.

Thank you, Second. I didn't know that there were many older residents needing help. I will bear that in mind. I have been here for about 20 years, and there seemed to be mostly younger families living here when I first arrived.

I was curious as to why the situation regarding the backlots had surfaced again, and I wondered who was spearheading this latest effort. I made a few enquiries today and discovered that a number of people were concerned about losing these green spaces that they have been accustomed to ever since they came here, and now they have been closed off by certain residents even though they were told by KCC not to do this. One elderly lady cannot get her refuse bin out because of it.

I'm afraid I get very angry when I think of those people who are trying to grab the designated green open spaces from the rest of Castletown residents. We all have problems with anti-social behaviour. The problem is widespread and the vandalism is getting worse. This is an extremely serious situation that needs to be dealt with directly. It now needs a more professional approach and a more concerted effort, rather than the usual quick fix which causes further problems. Closing off backlots is not going to solve it. It just moves it on to the other remaining spaces, especially Castletown woods.

There is a map of all these green open spaces that was circulating a few years ago, and it is alarming the amount of space that is being considered to close up and just hand out to individual residents for free. If you want to look at this map, the CRA has a copy. If this goes ahead there will be hardly any green open space left.

second

I know what you mean Raven. It is desperate to see that unsocial activity brings the need to take possibly unwanted action in the face of it's threat.
I do really feel however, that if the association has done all this donkey work to try and bring things along with the KCC that now, from what I can see, we all have the opportunity at the EGM to discuss and decide what will be presented to the KCC as the majority view of the residents with regard to this. It is incumbent upon the residents ( I think ) to take up on this opportunity and attend and make their voice heard by voting on the issue in whatever way they seem fit. A bit like the elections I suppose - if you don't vote - can you really complain ?
I really think you're right - there are obviously great people in KCC, but also, I expect in the association. I think they are trying their best but from what I see here are maybe 'caught between a rock and a hard place' !
I'd say, if they are organising this opportunity with apparant 'open ears' from KCC waiting - that we should avail of the opportunity - whatever view you might have.
I know they cleared a lane into a backlot beside an elderly lady that lives alone. The lane was full of cans, rubbish etc and now it is completely clear.
I have to say, I only joined this forum this month and commented on one topic so far ( it refers to where I live ) but thought initially it seemed that it was just a place just to 'bash' the efforts of KCC or associations or whoever. I just think there should be balance and some amount of value given to those that I think are trying to do what they can.

Fire_fly

The Raven. wrote: »

I was curious as to why the situation regarding the backlots had surfaced again, and I wondered who was spearheading this latest effort. I made a few enquiries today and discovered that a number of people were concerned about losing these green spaces that they have been accustomed to ever since they came here, and now they have been closed off by certain residents even though they were told by KCC not to do this. One elderly lady cannot get her refuse bin out because of it.

Raven I don't think this issue ever fully went away..many people I know just ran out of steam trying to keep these areas open against the wishes of the residents that surround them. Many of these areas have had there lanes blocked over the years with garden rubbish and some other unpleasant waste..there have been walls built by other residents blocking access to some green areas also. This matter is in the hands of KCC another Enforcement Notice issue.. but I've heard on the grapevine that KCC have the most issued and the least acted upon Enforcement Notice compared to other CC.
Also as recent as two months ago a group of residents applied for planning permission to incorporate the Orchard walk into their back gardens. So it's always been lurking about.

For those interested the AGM tonight will touch on a 'PILOT' back-lot scheme we have been working on over the last 12 months which will hopefully show that these areas can be used, if maintained.

Fire_fly

The Raven. wrote: »

Yes I agree with all of that. Good for you!
I would like to point out that I do go out and clean the street and pavements in our area with my neighbours when we decide to do it, not under orders from the CRA!

I may be Kildare born and bred..but I'm no headless sheep...I'm not ordered to do anything by anyone...can I ask you Raven is there something I'm missing here between you and the Castletown Residents Assoc??

Do we not all live on the same estate and are we not all supposedly working for the same goal..it's great that you clean your area Raven and if everybody on the estate did their area there would be no need for any of the CRA members to give up their summer evenings and Saturdays to keep the estate looking nice.

Second you said it perfectly..we all have the opportunity at the EGM to discuss and decide what will be presented to the KCC as the majority view of the residents with regard to this. It is incumbent upon the residents (I think) to take up on this opportunity and attend and make their voice heard by voting on the issue in whatever way they seem fit. A bit like the elections I suppose - if you don't vote - can you really complain ?

It's in all our hands now...

Beruthiel

The Raven. wrote: »

That isn't the worst of it. The OPW are now intending to erect an ugly palisade fence around our largest piece of green open space, which extends into Castletown woods, (with the help of KCC), in a shameless land grab!

The Raven,
Are you talking about the green area at the back of the Walled Gardens leading into the woods, or somewhere else?

The Raven.

Beruthiel wrote: »

The Raven,
Are you talking about the green area at the back of the Walled Gardens leading into the woods, or somewhere else?

Yes, Beruthial. That's the one. If you want to hear what the CRA have to say about it, it is on their agenda for tonight's meeting at the Kildrought at 8 pm. The 'OPW liaison officer' of the CRA has been liaising on this issue for some time with the OPW and KCC.

See no. 5, page 3 on their website, for the committee info.
http://www.castletownresidentsassociation.com/3.html

smar

Back lots;

My neighbours tried along with CRA to get our backlot closed off. They were told by CRA that the Council wouldn't allow it at the time. The same CRA member managed to fence off his own back lot and extended his garden. We were furious and at that point CRA lost all credibility.

North south signs:

What is this about?? People in Celbridge don't know where the north or south of Celbridge is let alone Castletown. If giving directions we will still have to explain North entrance via the Maynooth rd, and south via Castletown gates. What was the point????

Cean ups;

A simple A4 advance notice at the Gates would give residents a reasonable opportunity to turn up, same with AGM reminder.

Committee election:
At last year's AGM there was no opportunity to elect a committee from the floor. The committee was just rushed through among those sitting at the top table. This was a very strange way of electing a committee, normally residents/members can propose names for their association. Thats the last AGM that I will attend.

joe cluxton

The Raven. wrote: »

.

See no. 5, page 3 on their website, for the committee info.
http://www.castletownresidentsassociation.com/3.html

My name is on that list of committee members. I stepped down from the Committee at last nights A.G.M. and did not go forward for re-election
I wish to state here that I am no longer a member of the committee and have asked the chairman to remove my name from the above list.

smar

CRA committee is not democratically elected without circulating nomination forms to all members to propose officers for all positions on the committee for the AGM. It is a club, with no authority to represent the residents. They are not in a position to deal with KCC or anybody else on behalf of the residents untill they adress that basic issue. Their decisions can be challanged by any resident and I would question their authority to collect subs, without being democratically elected. To overlook this basic right of residents is very arrogant and smaks of "We can do what we like" as proven when they closed off their own backlots and extended their own gardens.

second

Good God almighty !!! I was at the meeting last night. They all 'stepped down' and 'offered' to go forward again for next year if thats what the people present voted in favour of. The vote was a unanamous yes. I expect that's because no one else wanted to do it !!!
What do you really want from these people ? They are not government members who are getting paid - they are just ordinary residents like you or me. I'm really taken aback by this level of begrudgery.
Also, now that I remember - it was asked whether anyone else wanted to come on the committee or propose anyone - complete silence ! I personally felt thank god there's someone there trying to keep a handle on things. If I were them - I'd just leave us all to our own devices and say off you go - do it yourselves !! I certainly would'nt have their job if this is what they get all the time although I think this is just a very minority view here.

Beruthiel

The Raven. wrote: »

Yes, Beruthial. That's the one.

Well I'm all for any move which will keep the nightly knacker drinking in the woods from happening.
I'm am more than fed up with the fact that bunchs of teenagers go in there regularly with bags of dutch gold and vodka.
I'd have no problem if they went all the way in, but they continue to hang round the back gardens of residents who's houses have the unfortunate luck to back out onto the woods.

Fire_fly

smar wrote: »

Committee election:
At last year's AGM there was no opportunity to elect a committee from the floor. The committee was just rushed through among those sitting at the top table. This was a very strange way of electing a committee, normally residents/members can propose names for their association. Thats the last AGM that I will attend.

Smar, I take it from your post that you did not attend last night’s AGM? So for your benefit…All committee members stepped down last night and re-election was open to the floor, not one name was put forth from the 50 or so residents in attendance. A motion was put forward to re-elect the out-going committee and was passed by a majority vote.

I don’t think any of the volunteers on the committee have in-depth training into the politics of running a meeting too it’s strictest form, but if there is a resident out there that does know how, there help would be appreciated

As for your views on past events with the back-lot issues, all I can say is I’m new to the committee and have been trying (with help from the rest of the CRA) to come to some sort of solution for these areas be that open or closed..

smar

It doesn't take political skill to elect a committe at an AGM. It is common practice that members are given an opportunity prior to the meeting to go forward for all positions and on the night the member with the most votes is elected. In a lot of cases there won't be need for a vote. What makes it democratic is the fact that all members were given reasonable time to consider going forward, for all positions. This is not rocket science, but as I say common practice.

It is interesting that only 50 residents turned up out of 750 houses and nobody wanted to help. Perhaps I am not the only person who feels that CRA has lost its credibility.

Ptang Yang Kipperbang

I cannot fully comprehend the level of criticism being shown towards the CRA. An association of volunteers who regularly clean near your houses, plant flowers and meet to work on ideas to make this place of ours better. And the reward for this altruism? The majority of the people judging from this board and the AGM only interested in their own (land/financial/convenience*) gain, complaints of a lack of bureaucracy etc. etc.

The solipsistic criticising the altruistic.

I'll be voting to keep the lots open for the children to use. But if I lose I'll shake the hands of those who have won, and accept democratic defeat. Oh, yes, one final thing, I'll shake the hand of every one of those CRA volunteers. Pass it on.

* Delete as applicable to you.

second

"It doesn't take political skill to elect a committe at an AGM. It is common practice that members are given an opportunity prior to the meeting to go forward for all positions and on the night the member with the most votes is elected. In a lot of cases there won't be need for a vote. What makes it democratic is the fact that all members were given reasonable time to consider going forward, for all positions. This is not rocket science, but as I say common practice.

It is interesting that only 50 residents turned up out of 750 houses and nobody wanted to help. Perhaps I am not the only person who feels that CRA has lost its credibility. "

Smar, I got notice of the AGM where it shows election of committee. I could have put myself forward but like everyone else -did'nt. So as far as I am concerned, all the appropriate procedure and opportunity was given to everyone. It was as democratic an election as can be.
I have never seen anymore than about 50 at one of these meting during my time living in Castletown and I have attended the last @ 6 AGMs.
So has it anything to do with credibility of the association or just plain proof of the apathy of people to bother ?
What exactly is your beef with them ? Have you 'previous' with them or something ? Don't forget, the committee has changed completely over the last few years as I have seen many different faces come on board. If you or others have 'previous' with them, maybe it's as a result of previous committee members and it's time to let it lie ?
If not - why don't YOU put yourself forward - you seem to know better than them how to do it all !
Sorry, I just can't understand why you all want to criticise them without offering any 'constructive' input.

Beruthiel

smar wrote: »

It is interesting that only 50 residents turned up out of 750 houses and nobody wanted to help. Perhaps I am not the only person who feels that CRA has lost its credibility.

I think you will find that it has more to do with a total lack of time on most peoples part due to work and family obligations.
I think you will find that most people are actually grateful that someone is working away in the background on our behalf and if you have a problem with that and don't like the way they run things, then it makes perfect sense that you actually get involved with them and try to change things from the inside.
Your level of bitterness is perplexing.