Michelin map updated - a comedy of errors

darkman2

http://www.viamichelin.com/web/Maps


This is the "new" map? Not good, at all. Updated in the last couple of days. Even worse then Google maps. I use to think Michelin maps were very good and the colour scheme excellent aswell. I hope this is not what is actually being printed atm?

wellbutty

I assume the errors are similar to Google Maps seeing as they're both Teleatlas-based

Quazzie

First thing that jumps out at me is that the road around the curragh race course hasn't changed on the map despite it being totally altered nearly three years ago now.

munchkin_utd

whats the problem... or better which map, which zoom level

at some zoom levels theres a version of the printed map. Thats michelins baby.
At other zoom levels theres a TELEATLAS map that Michelin themselves do not generate.

I can say this because when I pointed out a previous error in the teleatlas map to them by email they simply told me to notify teleatlas of their error.

BluntGuy

The "updates" are a jumbled mess as I thought they'd be.

Irish and Proud

BluntGuy wrote: »

The "updates" are a jumbled mess as I thought they'd be.

What a joke for a "map"! :rolleyes:

...actually, I might be onto something!

...could someone who has been unfortunate enough to buy the map please check the date of publication...

...it could be 01/04/10!!! :rolleyes:

Irish and Proud

Was in Eason's today and saw that the AA have a new 2010 Ireland (fold-out double sided) map that is ahead of date - all inter-urbans open with the M17/M18 under construction - IMO, this is a good prediction for around Q4 2010 - just like the most recent Collins Ireland maps (fold out and booklet formats). The AA map is good and clear, while the Collins map is very nicely presented - most importantly, they're both reasonably accurate.

The latest Michelin map for Ireland (online) is a disgrace to the country - what an insult to our intelligence - what do they take us for??? :mad:

I for one would recommend either the AA or Collins map - and OSM of course!

Regards!

L1011

Does the AA map still have the Foxford bypass (no planning permission granted) and New Ross bypass as under construction? My few year old one does! And the N22 Killarney - Farranfore which I think isn't even designed yet.

Irish and Proud

MYOB wrote: »

Does the AA map still have the Foxford bypass (no planning permission granted) and New Ross bypass as under construction? My few year old one does! And the N22 Killarney - Farranfore which I think isn't even designed yet.

Most certainly does not have the New Ross Bypass U/C on it - I gladly did notice that!

About Killarney and Foxford, I can't say for definite!

Regards!

JupiterKid

Michelin road maps used to be the best you could buy. They were bang up to date, showing the planned dates of new road openings and they contained a lot of detail.

However, in the past 5 years or so they have fallen badly behind the other maps in terms of keeping abreast of the road developments in Ireland. A real shame...:(

spacetweek

JupiterKid wrote: »

Michelin road maps used to be the best you could buy. They were bang up to date, showing the planned dates of new road openings and they contained a lot of detail.

However, in the past 5 years or so they have fallen badly behind the other maps in terms of keeping abreast of the road developments in Ireland. A real shame...:(

Yea I still think Michelin have the best colour scheme and clarity I've ever seen, but that map is riddled with errors. Another huge overhaul needed in 2011 to correct all the new errors they've introduced.

Also, they're still showing nearly all their distances in miles (the red figures). It's about time these were removed. British mapmakers can posit the rather feeble argument that the majority of their customers are British people who brought their UK cars over to Ireland; but Michelin are French. It's odd.

wellbutty

Straight from the government's mapping website today (www.osi.ie)...anyone spot what's missing?! :rolleyes:

L1011

They're rendered image maps from a series they don't update anymore. Zoom in to the layers that use the Discovery series and they're a lot more modern, zoom in to where it uses the vector data and its nearly entirely accurate.

mackerski

wellbutty wrote: »

Straight from the government's mapping website today (www.osi.ie)...anyone spot what's missing?! :rolleyes:

The permission to reproduce a copyrighted map?

G_R

mackerski wrote: »

The permission to reproduce a copyrighted map?

it's freely available online

mackerski

dannym08 wrote: »

it's freely available online

Doesn't matter. It's still OSI copyright data that may not be reused without permission.

Carawaystick

mackerski wrote: »

Doesn't matter. It's still OSI copyright data that may not be reused without permission.

Apart from the fair dealing exemptions and certain other exemptions....

csd

Apologies if this has been posted before, but it looks like there's been an update to the ViaMichelin map of Ireland. The MIUs are all in there and correctly shown, but there are still a few mistakes:

• Athy and Kilkenny link roads are shown as DC, N78 not updated
• Toll sections are omitted on the M7, M1, and Shannon Tunnel
• The M3 is shown as all tolled, though there is a toll-free section around Navan
• N4 Dromod/Rooskey bypass shown as single carriageway
• M6 J14 all the way to Galway is shown as toll

Even with these mistakes, it's now probably the best online map of Ireland from a quality and up-to-date perspective. Certainly a big improvement and back to old days of quality.

/csd

Amtmann

Hmm.. it's not updated from when I visit the Viamichelin website.

Cathaoirleach

OSM is the only map service that is consistently up-to-date.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.05&lon=-7.48&zoom=8&layers=M

csd

Tremelo wrote: »

Hmm.. it's not updated from when I visit the Viamichelin website.

Very strange - they've definitely updated the two zoom levels used for paper maps. Even the M1 and M4 MSAs are there now.

Cathaoirleach wrote:

OSM is the only map service that is consistently up-to-date.

OpenStreetMap is up-to-date, but doesn't have complete coverage of the country and doesn't give as much detail on the road standard.

/csd

lucernarian

The road alignments on TeleAtlas data quite poor in a lot of locations. I can't effectively use streetview in a number of places as the toggle button to move forward or back in that mode relies on the TeleAtlas data, not the actual route of the car. Naturally the car can't photograph within the field 50 metres away so you are left with a wide variety of gaps on (mainly rural roads) simply because of poor mapping data.

I wonder how TeleAtlas carried out their feeble attempt at mapping...

OpenStreetMap has no Local Roads coverage of most of Co. Louth, Monaghan, Cavan or parts of Donegal which I would use relatively often. What's been done looks accurate though.

[off topic bit]
I was interested in adding some mapping data just with an iPhone and an app of some sort but when I looked into it I had to get my head around an awful lot of quite detailed yet poorly clarified info which was daunting for a newbie like me. The help centre page has lots of various specific questions but nothing that says "How to add road mapping GPS data to the OSM map" or "What are multipolygons?" etc. Their own Glossary doesn't even include a definition for a number of terms like multipolygons.

The "Collecting Data" documentation page gives a brief overview of the methods of finding data and the pros and cons of each method. Nothing about how to actually collect data. So, I click on the GPS link and I get a similar overview with some added specific questions in a Q&A section. I find a sentence "More information on how to record GPS tracks is available at Recording GPS Tracks." Now as a newbie, I don't know what a GPS track is but I can only assume it has some relevance. Only now do I come across the fundamentals in actually obtaining GPS data. And that's before the effort of looking through information on what tracking app/hardware to use, how to upload and amalgamate data etc. I think it could do with some more newbie-friendly info.

L1011

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I wonder how TeleAtlas carried out their feeble attempt at mapping...

Tracing satellite imagery in rural/low traffic areas. Navteq drove every road

You'll notice that Tele Atlas has roads on offshore islands traced, Navteq didn't bother.

Maj Malfunction

You would be better off buying an Ordnance Survey Ireland (OSi) map for the country. The roads will be where their supposed to be and the information will be current!

Garmin map updates for Nuvi are a disgrace too, they are missing alot of the new roads in the past 3 years, I wouldn't usually mind, but when your spending €80 for the map update you would expect it to be accurate!

lucernarian

MYOB wrote: »

Tracing satellite imagery in rural/low traffic areas. Navteq drove every road

You'll notice that Tele Atlas has roads on offshore islands traced, Navteq didn't bother.

I'm suprised they would regard junction alignments on the R132 as "low traffic", particularly the route people take to avoid the toll on the M1 / to travel through Drogheda.

IrlJidel

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

OpenStreetMap has no Local Roads coverage of most of Co. Louth, Monaghan, Cavan or parts of Donegal which I would use relatively often. What's been done looks accurate though.

[off topic bit]
I was interested in adding some mapping data just with an iPhone and an app of some sort but when I looked into it I had to get my head around an awful lot of quite detailed yet poorly clarified info which was daunting for a newbie like me. The help centre page has lots of various specific questions but nothing that says "How to add road mapping GPS data to the OSM map" or "What are multipolygons?" etc. Their own Glossary doesn't even include a definition for a number of terms like multipolygons.

The "Collecting Data" documentation page gives a brief overview of the methods of finding data and the pros and cons of each method. Nothing about how to actually collect data. So, I click on the GPS link and I get a similar overview with some added specific questions in a Q&A section. I find a sentence "More information on how to record GPS tracks is available at Recording GPS Tracks." Now as a newbie, I don't know what a GPS track is but I can only assume it has some relevance. Only now do I come across the fundamentals in actually obtaining GPS data. And that's before the effort of looking through information on what tracking app/hardware to use, how to upload and amalgamate data etc. I think it could do with some more newbie-friendly info.

Your gps tracklogs from those areas would be very welcome.

Have you tried looking at Beginners Guide that is linked off http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/

I'm not an iPhone user but MotionX app looks promising http://gps.motionx.com/iphone/overview/

They even have a mini OSM tutorial http://gps.motionx.com/iphone/resources/#OSMGPXtracing

lucernarian

IrlJidel wrote: »

Your gps tracklogs from those areas would be very welcome.

Have you tried looking at Beginners Guide that is linked off http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/

I'm not an iPhone user but MotionX app looks promising http://gps.motionx.com/iphone/overview/

They even have a mini OSM tutorial http://gps.motionx.com/iphone/resources/#OSMGPXtracing

I have used the beginners's guide and indeed the discussion I posted was on the back of links I reached through the beginners guide! But I hope in the near future to at least obtain some tracelogs and pass them on.

JohnC.

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

OSM is the only map service that is consistently up-to-date.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.05&lon=-7.48&zoom=8&layers=M

Depends where you look. I can see that there are roads near me which don't exist on OSM.

AndrewMc

csd wrote: »

OpenStreetMap is up-to-date, but doesn't have complete coverage of the country and doesn't give as much detail on the road standard.

/csd

What sort of detail on the road standard does viamichelin give?

phog

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

OSM is the only map service that is consistently up-to-date.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.05&lon=-7.48&zoom=8&layers=M

Looks good.

I've just checked the junction on Clare St near the Absolute hotel in Limerick and it's updated with the junction controlled with lights rather than a roundabout and that only changed in the last few weeks.

csd

AndrewMc wrote: »

What sort of detail on the road standard does viamichelin give?

It differentiates between tolled and non-tolled roads.

Shows two standards of dual carriageway: normal and high quality.

Shows if single carriageway roads are wide or narrow.

For many junctions, shows roundabouts vs grade-separated vs t-junction etc.

/csd

mackerski

Kahless wrote: »

Depends where you look. I can see that there are roads near me which don't exist on OSM.

Add them.

JohnC.

mackerski wrote: »

Add them.

From the point of view of a user, that's not very good regarding reliability of the maps. I don't need the maps here as I know the roads. Someone who does need the maps won't know the roads are incorrect unless someone fills them in. If I want to use the maps to go somewhere unfamiliar to me, I won't be assuming the maps are correct there either. So I simply won't use it.

Chris_5339762

Aside from a couple of minor errors about paths in parks, I've found OSM to be much more accurate than any of the commerical mapping software packages.

mackerski

Kahless wrote: »

From the point of view of a user, that's not very good regarding reliability of the maps. I don't need the maps here as I know the roads. Someone who does need the maps won't know the roads are incorrect unless someone fills them in. If I want to use the maps to go somewhere unfamiliar to me, I won't be assuming the maps are correct there either. So I simply won't use it.

We seem to be different types of person. I hold the door for people and don't drop litter because I think it makes the world a nicer place. The more people there are who also behave in that way, the more chance there is that, when I visit a new place, the streets will be clean and the doors won't hit me in the face.

I could take the view that I don't gain much from my own neighbourhood being tidy or polite since I normally just come home to sleep, but somehow such logic doesn't do it for me.

In like fashion, I have seen that OSM is filling up with better map data than you can get elsewhere. I have discovered that the more I improve it in my own area, something I can do with relative ease, the better it gets in other parts of the world. I regard this as a great deal, and continue to contribute.

You may be more sceptical. That's fine, there's no downside. You can just wait until the coverage is more to your liking, and only then start using it for free.

But I like my way better

AndrewMc

Kahless wrote: »

From the point of view of a user, that's not very good regarding reliability of the maps. I don't need the maps here as I know the roads. Someone who does need the maps won't know the roads are incorrect unless someone fills them in. If I want to use the maps to go somewhere unfamiliar to me, I won't be assuming the maps are correct there either. So I simply won't use it.

Incomplete and incorrect aren't entirely the same. While I know there's plenty of missing roads, I have greater trust that with OSM what's there is right. All the recent motorways are a good example — nearly all were up within days, if not hours, and not before.

I really would encourage you join in and add those roads, or even just submit a GPS trace of you driving along them; as a communal effort any and all help is appreciated.

JohnC.

mackerski wrote: »

We seem to be different types of person. I hold the door for people and don't drop litter because I think it makes the world a nicer place. The more people there are who also behave in that way, the more chance there is that, when I visit a new place, the streets will be clean and the doors won't hit me in the face.

I could take the view that I don't gain much from my own neighbourhood being tidy or polite since I normally just come home to sleep, but somehow such logic doesn't do it for me.

Are you trying to imply that I don't do these things too or that it is in any way relevant to a map being trustworthy? In what way does any of that mean I can put my faith in other places being correct when I know of inaccurate mapping in my area, even if I've put it right after I've seen it?

It's all very well with all these claims everyone is making of motorways and cities being correct. But the country isn't made entirely of motorways and cities.

And why is it okay for Michelin to be called a comedy of errors, but if anyone dares to say anything about the hallowed OSM, they are selfish.

mackerski

Kahless wrote: »

And why is it okay for Michelin to be called a comedy of errors, but if anyone dares to say anything about the hallowed OSM, they are selfish.

I think the two are unconnected. I didn't apply that label to the Michelin map, but as a longtime fan of that map I do agree that the standard has slipped in ways that I find difficult to justify. As Andrew has mentioned, there is a difference between something being incorrect and just not being mapped yet - the former suggests a poor approach to map-making, the latter just reflects the fact that it takes time to make a complete map (far less if more people help).

I didn't actually call you selfish. Rather, I attempted to suggest that if more people took my approach to OSM than took yours the map would be a great deal better than it is. To be sure, there are applications to which it is not suited today. When I started mapping a few short years ago there wasn't even a coastline to keep the land in. But Unlike the Michelin map, the quality of our map is only going in one direction.