Leave the Euro, adopt Sterling.

Stinicker

We are headed straight into National Bankruptcy but the Greeks cheekily got there before us and have now got their bailout, Ireland will not get an easy bailout and we will get raped by the IMF. Having spent the weekend in the UK and seen how their "great recession" is panning out I can tell you that Ireland is not in recession but in 1929 style great depression. Launching the Punt Nua will wipe out savings so I think we must now accept that as a Nation we are a failed economic entity and we must change over to Sterling to avoid disaster.

The Republic of Ireland is a a market about the size of Manchester or Birmingham and us moving into Sterling will actually benefit both economies massively. The UK will be able to sell into Ireland easier and Ireland will benefit from the Sterlings strenght and weaknesses. The UK devalued their currency which really sheltered them from the storm, we were stuck with the Greeks, Germans and Frogs and as a result we have high costs, deflation and no control over our affairs.

Introducing the Queens Currency into the Republic is the best solution and will improve cross border relations immensely and we will see the border as an economic obstacle become one of our new strong points.

longhalloween

People have enough trouble tolerating the existence of northern ireland so i dont think converting over to the UK's currency is gonna be popular, even if it is beneficial.

dRNk SAnTA

Wow, I'm looking forward to this Sterling utopia! Because it sounds so fun having a devalued currency!

10% of value of everybody's savings gone, overnight!

10% of value of everybody's wages gone, overnight!

Any debts in a foreign currency increase in value 10%, over night!

Brucey BONUS: Inflation... awesome!


And this increased market you speak of is intriguing, I mean sure, technically the Eurozone provides a market 5 and half times bigger than the UK. But most of them speak funny languages so they probably don't count.

And hey, maybe this time Her Majesty will even let us take part in the industrial revolution!

murphaph

Yeah it's terrible being stuck in a currency which is controlled by the fiscally disciplined Germans. Damn them all to hell!

The Euro is bloody great. For the first time in decades an Irish government has to erm, govern! Why should the entire population receive the devaluation based paycut when the section of the population employed by the state is overpaid compared to comparable jobs in the private sector and in the UK?! Let's get public sector pay down to a comparable level rather than just slashing everyone's pay by whatever percent.

This is a great test for our nation. Do we have the guts to take our medicine (FF and the nasty bankers didn't cause this alone....the general populace lapped it up and couldn't get into debt quick enough to buy that (now obsolete) plasma TV) or are we going to be like the Greeks, rioting and making arses out of ourselves (we have already done that by repeatedly voting in FF and for paying 300k for a shoebox style, shoddily built apartment). I would like to see us develop real fiscal discipline and be allowed to stay in the Euro.

People keep looking for an easy way out, but why should there be?

bigjohnny80

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah it's terrible being stuck in a currency which is controlled by the fiscally disciplined Germans. Damn them all to hell!

The Euro is bloody great. For the first time in decades an Irish government has to erm, govern! Why should the entire population receive the devaluation based paycut when the section of the population employed by the state is overpaid compared to comparable jobs in the private sector and in the UK?! Let's get public sector pay down to a comparable level rather than just slashing everyone's pay by whatever percent.

This is a great test for our nation. Do we have the guts to take our medicine (FF and the nasty bankers didn't cause this alone....the general populace lapped it up and couldn't get into debt quick enough to buy that (now obsolete) plasma TV) or are we going to be like the Greeks, rioting and making arses out of ourselves (we have already done that by repeatedly voting in FF and for paying 300k for a shoebox style, shoddily built apartment). I would like to see us develop real fiscal discipline and be allowed to stay in the Euro.

People keep looking for an easy way out, but why should there be?

+1

20goto10

Stinicker wrote: »

We are headed straight into National Bankruptcy but the Greeks cheekily got there before us and have now got their bailout, Ireland will not get an easy bailout and we will get raped by the IMF. Having spent the weekend in the UK and seen how their "great recession" is panning out I can tell you that Ireland is not in recession but in 1929 style great depression. Launching the Punt Nua will wipe out savings so I think we must now accept that as a Nation we are a failed economic entity and we must change over to Sterling to avoid disaster.

The Republic of Ireland is a a market about the size of Manchester or Birmingham and us moving into Sterling will actually benefit both economies massively. The UK will be able to sell into Ireland easier and Ireland will benefit from the Sterlings strenght and weaknesses. The UK devalued their currency which really sheltered them from the storm, we were stuck with the Greeks, Germans and Frogs and as a result we have high costs, deflation and no control over our affairs.

Introducing the Queens Currency into the Republic is the best solution and will improve cross border relations immensely and we will see the border as an economic obstacle become one of our new strong points.

Why do people insist that we are next? We were first were we not? And their run on us failed.

Amhran Nua

Stinicker wrote: »

Having spent the weekend in the UK and seen how their "great recession" is panning out I can tell you that Ireland is not in recession but in 1929 style great depression.

The UK is almost worse off than Greece in terms of borrowing to cover their spending. If there was one European country in deeper than us, it would be them, they wouldn't be allowed to join the Euro even if they wanted to. The idea of actually converting to sterling (the situation we were basically in before joining the euro) is laughable to put it mildly.

MaceFace

Stinicker wrote: »

We are headed straight into National Bankruptcy but the Greeks cheekily got there before us and have now got their bailout, Ireland will not get an easy bailout and we will get raped by the IMF. Having spent the weekend in the UK and seen how their "great recession" is panning out I can tell you that Ireland is not in recession but in 1929 style great depression. Launching the Punt Nua will wipe out savings so I think we must now accept that as a Nation we are a failed economic entity and we must change over to Sterling to avoid disaster.

Are we really? When is this great event going to happen?

Stinicker wrote: »

The Republic of Ireland is a a market about the size of Manchester or Birmingham and us moving into Sterling will actually benefit both economies massively. The UK will be able to sell into Ireland easier and Ireland will benefit from the Sterlings strenght and weaknesses. The UK devalued their currency which really sheltered them from the storm, we were stuck with the Greeks, Germans and Frogs and as a result we have high costs, deflation and no control over our affairs.

Introducing the Queens Currency into the Republic is the best solution and will improve cross border relations immensely and we will see the border as an economic obstacle become one of our new strong points.

Sorry, but I am losing all patience for these type of suggestions.
Tell me, you think the UK are going to allow us to use their currency? Why on earth would they agree to that?
Do you think the Bank of England will take Ireland into consideration when its sets fiscal policy?

Leave aside the politics of it, it makes absolutely no sense at all.

the_syco

Stinicker wrote: »

The UK devalued their currency which really sheltered them from the storm, we were stuck with the Greeks, Germans and Frogs and as a result we have high costs, deflation and no control over our affairs.

Introducing the Queens Currency into the Republic is the best solution and will improve cross border relations immensely and we will see the border as an economic obstacle become one of our new strong points.

So... we replace rome rule with... rome rule? How do we gain control over our currancy then?

PeakOutput

Stinicker wrote: »

We are headed straight into National Bankruptcy but the Greeks cheekily got there before us and have now got their bailout, Ireland will not get an easy bailout and we will get raped by the IMF. Having spent the weekend in the UK and seen how their "great recession" is panning out I can tell you that Ireland is not in recession but in 1929 style great depression. Launching the Punt Nua will wipe out savings so I think we must now accept that as a Nation we are a failed economic entity and we must change over to Sterling to avoid disaster.

The Republic of Ireland is a a market about the size of Manchester or Birmingham and us moving into Sterling will actually benefit both economies massively. The UK will be able to sell into Ireland easier and Ireland will benefit from the Sterlings strenght and weaknesses. The UK devalued their currency which really sheltered them from the storm, we were stuck with the Greeks, Germans and Frogs and as a result we have high costs, deflation and no control over our affairs.

Introducing the Queens Currency into the Republic is the best solution and will improve cross border relations immensely and we will see the border as an economic obstacle become one of our new strong points.

clearly you have no idea what your talking about because that is a ridicolous idea we will not be calling in the imf and we will not need a bailout from the eu like greece IF the goverment continue to stand up to the unions and continue cutting expenditure

zootroid

Stinicker wrote: »

We are headed straight into National Bankruptcy but the Greeks cheekily got there before us and have now got their bailout, Ireland will not get an easy bailout and we will get raped by the IMF. Having spent the weekend in the UK and seen how their "great recession" is panning out I can tell you that Ireland is not in recession but in 1929 style great depression. Launching the Punt Nua will wipe out savings so I think we must now accept that as a Nation we are a failed economic entity and we must change over to Sterling to avoid disaster.

The Republic of Ireland is a a market about the size of Manchester or Birmingham and us moving into Sterling will actually benefit both economies massively. The UK will be able to sell into Ireland easier and Ireland will benefit from the Sterlings strenght and weaknesses. The UK devalued their currency which really sheltered them from the storm, we were stuck with the Greeks, Germans and Frogs and as a result we have high costs, deflation and no control over our affairs.

Introducing the Queens Currency into the Republic is the best solution and will improve cross border relations immensely and we will see the border as an economic obstacle become one of our new strong points.

You complain about having no control over our own affairs, but you want to transfer monetary policy from Europe to the UK?

You worry about the launching of a "punt nua" and how this would wipe out savings, but surely moving to any new devalued currency would do the same? Not to mention most of our foreign debt is in Euro, and so if we were to leave the Euro for a lesser currency, our debts would significantly increase.

The Republic of Ireland has a bigger market than either Manchester or Birmingham.

hiorta

From frying pan to fire if you chose road.
A class-ridden, American-controlled, fence sitter.
They want to be 'at the heart of Europe' but avoid all things European, especially the currency!
There must be a name for such?

RichardAnd

Stinicker wrote: »

I can tell you that Ireland is not in recession but in 1929 style great depression.

Really, and what do you base that off because the Great Depression with like this...




I haven't seen this.




Or this.




And I certainly haven't seen this.


I can't speak for anyone else but we are a far, FAR cry from the great depression. When people make statements like what you have done, they overlook how lucky we are these days because, recession or not, I can tell you that even someone one on the dole is living far better than my grandmother did in the 40s.

20goto10

RichardAnd wrote: »

I can tell you that even someone one on the dole is living far better than my grandmother did in the 40s.

and someone on the dole is living better than some of those with a job, today.

gaz wac

Free doughnuts :eek: ... score !!

murphaph

gaz wac wrote: »

Free doughnuts :eek: ... score !!

...with a longer queue than the passport office!

Anita Blow

"All right, but apart from 400,000 jobs, 50% more women at work, significantly higher incomes, the transformation of our economy to a services export world-leader, the Internet-based economy, significant investment in education and health, more teachers and nurses, a skilled workforce, a long and healthy old age and roads… what has the Celtic Tiger ever done for us?!"

mike65

MaceFace wrote: »

Tell me, you think the UK are going to allow us to use their currency? Why on earth would they agree to that?
Do you think the Bank of England will take Ireland into consideration when its sets fiscal policy?

Indeed the BOE would take no more interest in Irelands needs then the ECB in Frankfurt does

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

And this increased market you speak of is intriguing, I mean sure, technically the Eurozone provides a market 5 and half times bigger than the UK. But most of them speak funny languages so they probably don't count.

Slightly OT - has Irish industry taken the eurozone economy remotely seriously as an export market? last I knew domestic Irish companies sold no more into the Eurozone than pre-euro.

johnnyjb

20goto10 wrote: »

and someone on the dole is living better than some of those with a job, today.

How is that??:rolleyes:

Explain !! i hear people cribbing to me that there down 50 euro but dont realise people arent unemployed or employed these days based on merit its all luck really.

If its the case that you are emplyed and feelhard done by you prob are spending too much or have to pay out child care or petrol money to stay in employment. Or else you are working for less than minimum wage and i would suggest you quit that job and join the dole queue as its against the law in most cases. Id happily take a job for a fraction over the dole. If its not sustainable it cant be done.

It be like gettin a job in sweden and complaining cause ive to fly back every sunday and fri and cant afford the plane,digs.

20goto10

johnnyjb wrote: »

How is that??:rolleyes:

Explain !! i hear people cribbing to me that there down 50 euro but dont realise people arent unemployed or employed these days based on merit its all luck really.

If its the case that you are emplyed and feelhard done by you prob are spending too much or have to pay out child care or petrol money to stay in employment. Or else you are working for less than minimum wage and i would suggest you quit that job and join the dole queue as its against the law in most cases. Id happily take a job for a fraction over the dole. If its not sustainable it cant be done.

It be like gettin a job in sweden and complaining cause ive to fly back every sunday and fri and cant afford the plane,digs.

I've heard of the poverty trap but I've no evidence to back up my claims. I did read an article recently about a women with every benefit under the sun who was "earning" a ridiculous amount of money, more than the average income if I remember correctly. Again, no links or evidence to back up my claims so just call it my opinion.

zebrawombat

gaz wac wrote: »

Free doughnuts :eek: ... score !!

They sure had it easy in those days!

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah it's terrible being stuck in a currency which is controlled by the fiscally disciplined Germans. Damn them all to hell!

The Euro is bloody great. For the first time in decades an Irish government has to erm, govern! Why should the entire population receive the devaluation based paycut when the section of the population employed by the state is overpaid compared to comparable jobs in the private sector and in the UK?! Let's get public sector pay down to a comparable level rather than just slashing everyone's pay by whatever percent.

This is a great test for our nation. Do we have the guts to take our medicine (FF and the nasty bankers didn't cause this alone....the general populace lapped it up and couldn't get into debt quick enough to buy that (now obsolete) plasma TV) or are we going to be like the Greeks, rioting and making arses out of ourselves (we have already done that by repeatedly voting in FF and for paying 300k for a shoebox style, shoddily built apartment). I would like to see us develop real fiscal discipline and be allowed to stay in the Euro.

People keep looking for an easy way out, but why should there be?

Post of the recession right here. Well said!

RichardAnd

20goto10 wrote: »

and someone on the dole is living better than some of those with a job, today.

Sadly this is true. I know a guy who works part time and he actually earns less (after tax) than someone on the dole! Still, at least he's earning his money.

Anita Blow wrote: »

"All right, but apart from 400,000 jobs, 50% more women at work, significantly higher incomes, the transformation of our economy to a services export world-leader, the Internet-based economy, significant investment in education and health, more teachers and nurses, a skilled workforce, a long and healthy old age and roads… what has the Celtic Tiger ever done for us?!"

Brought peace

thebman

mike65 wrote: »

Slightly OT - has Irish industry taken the eurozone economy remotely seriously as an export market? last I knew domestic Irish companies sold no more into the Eurozone than pre-euro.

I think many Irish companies would love to see to Europe but lack the staff with language skills required to sell to this market.

A failure of our highly invested in education system maybe.

danman

johnnyjb wrote: »

How is that??:rolleyes:

have I not read on a number of occasions that someone in my circumstances, married, 2 kids, would have to earn €40,000 to €45,000 pa to have the same life style of a similar person on long term benifits?

So if I earned €35,000 pa, would I not be worse off?

petroltimer

hi,

just wondering if anybody has any ideas how a country would go about leaving the euro? because surely if the government gave advanced notice there would be a run on the banks to get your cash out, or would they just freeze all bank accounts without notice and then devalue all our savings. In the space of a night we could be 20% poorer (mind you if its the latter im sure the rich will have already know and have moved their money)

oilibhear

So crazy an idea, it's scarcely even worth entertaining.

The balance of our imports are roughly 2:2:1:2 for UK:EU:USA:Rest of world. The balance of our exports are roughly 1:3:1:1 for UK:Rest of EU:USA:Rest of World. The value of our exports outstrip our imports approximately 2:1.

See: http://www.cso.ie/statistics/botmaintrpartners.htm

It would be bananas to move away from the Euro. In the Euro, we have some say over our currency and are guaranteed price stability into our run-away main export market and from our joint top import market (and bear in mind exports are more valuable by a margin of 2:1). If we moved to Stirling we would have NO say over our currency and price stability for only a sixth of our exports.

We effectively had Sterling from 1922 to 1979 for good reason. The UK was by far our main trading partner. It made sense to peg ourselves to their currency. Since then we have shifted the focus of our trade substantially. The Euro area is now our greatest trading partner by far.

Dropping out of the Euro now and (re)adapting Sterling or (re)pegging ourselves to it makes no sense. Sterling simply doesn't account for enough of our trade to merit entertaining the idea for any great length.

The Euro does. That's where our business is.

ardmacha

Sterling represents the debt, housing price spiral mentality that we are trying to get free from. It is not the way forward.

pfy2k

We should never have left the union with sterling in 1977, and setup the Punt with a separate exchange rate,which was done to prove our independence once and for all from Britain. I really do despair at this short sighted Republician Nationalism at the expense of economic stability!

pfy2k

Almost everything we buy and use, comes from a UK factory or distribution centre, plus a quarter of this Island is part of the UK like it or not. The British were right not to adopt the Euro, and maybe even right to think about leaving the EU. As the EU is a bit like the Bismark, big and shiny, but may go down with a big splash! lol:rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

pfy2k wrote: »

Almost everything we buy and use, comes from a UK factory or distribution centre, plus a quarter of this Island is part of the UK like it or not. The British were right not to adopt the Euro, and maybe even right to think about leaving the EU. As the EU is a bit like the Bismark, big and shiny, but may go down with a big splash! lol:rolleyes:

Where they?

they devalued their currency by 30% making everyone equally poorer but their trade deficit continued to grow ...

and last few days the GBP was dropping as fast if not faster than EUR

oilibhear

We should never have left the union with sterling in 1977, and setup the Punt with a separate exchange rate,which was done to prove our independence once and for all from Britain.

We broke with sterling in order to join EMS. If it had been to prove our independence do you not think it would have been done at an earlier time since 1922?

Almost everything we buy and use, comes from a UK factory or distribution centre, plus a quarter of this Island is part of the UK like it or not.

Less than a third of of what we buy and use comes from the UK. Roughly the same amount as comes from Euroland. The big difference is that nearly half of what we sell goes to Euroland, whereas only a sixth of what we sell goes to the UK. See the link in my post above.

(And it's sixth of the island that is a part of the UK, not a quarter.)

Japer

We should not forget part of the reason we are in this big mess is because our interest rates had to suit the germans during 02 to 06, when the damage was done. The interest rates were far too low to suit the Irish economy at the time, and our bankers ( like Seanie + Fitzie + others ) were able to - and did - borrows too many hundreds of billions from Hans in Europe to lend out here. We only formed 1% of Europe and had no voice to influence interest rates. It did not pay people to save during the tiger years in Ireland.....after dirt tax ye only got peanuts, when those who borrowed money at 2.95% made capital appreciation on property of 20% And the government incentivised people to invest in property ( for their pension or whatever ) through section 23 + sectuion 27 etc.....and kept extending the deadlines.

Had we been part of a common currency system in these islands, we would have had a bigger voice in being able to dictate interest rates to suit ourselves.

Japer

pfy2k wrote: »

We should never have left the union with sterling in 1977, and setup the Punt with a separate exchange rate,which was done to prove our independence once and for all from Britain. I really do despair at this short sighted Republician Nationalism at the expense of economic stability!

+1. Most - if not all - groups of islands in the world have the same / a common currency.

oilibhear

Japer wrote: »

We should not forget part of the reason we are in this big mess is because our interest rates had to suit the germans during 02 to 06, when the damage was done.

Yes, interest rates were lower than what would have been set nationally had we still access to that lever. But the ECB did not dictate that we had to give tax incentives to developers during a construction boom, or 100% mortgages to borrowers, or abolish stamp duty on homes, or send the financial regulator on holidays, or allow planning permission for any collection of 200 shack houses built 60 miles from the back-arse of no-nowhere on a flood plain and advertised as being "within commuting distance of Dublin" should one enjoy spending 6 hours a day in car.

Yes, ECB interest rates were a part of of the reason for the mess. A very small part. Any sensible government (and more to the point: electorate) would have put in place disincentives to borrowing and incentives to saving to off-set the ECB rate - but not us! We saw an ember and fell over ourselves to douse it with petrol and all sort of combustables.

Yes, ECB interest rates were a part of the reason for the mess but in the end we have no-one to blame but ourselves.

Japer wrote: »

Had we been part of a common currency system in these islands, we would have had a bigger voice in being able to dictate interest rates to suit ourselves.

Of course! Because history shows how central the needs of Ireland figures for those in power at Westminister - even while we were a part of the UK!! Sure, why did we ever leave at all?

What right would we have to have any say in the interest rates set by the Bank of England (interesting: "England", not "UK") post 1922? What little say we have in the ECB rate or the value of the Euro, we would have zero say in the value of Sterling (or the rate set by the BoE) without rejoining the UK - and if there has been any lesson to be gathered from the history of these islands since 1169 it is that, Euro or no Euro, being governed from London is not in our interests.

Japer wrote: »

Most - if not all - groups of islands in the world have the same / a common currency.

Those that form a single state maybe. Or those for whom trade within the archipelago forms the main component of their balances of trade. Not us. Our greatest trading parter by far is the Euro area, not the Sterling area. And we do not form a single state.

In any case, the UK was due to join until 1992 and probably still will over the long term. So there's hope for them yet

DaBrow

Why should we continue using the euro?

We are bleeding as a country and yet we are too expensive to export our product/services, to the likes of America and Britain whom we have most of our trade relations with... The Eurozone makes up only 1/3 of our trade.

A pair of K-Swiss Trainers cost €60 here and in Britain they are only £40

A Mcdonalds Medium Big Mac Meal costs €6.00 here and £3.69-£3.89 in the UK

A ball dress that costs £225 in the North, is €390 in the Republic.

Greece is going to default, along with Spain/Portugal and us the longer we stay in a zone that is over-priced and prolonging recession that is killing recovery.

Scarab80

DaBrow wrote: »

Why should we continue using the euro?

We are bleeding as a country and yet we are too expensive to export our product/services, to the likes of America and Britain whom we have most of our trade relations with... The Eurozone makes up only 1/3 of our trade.

A pair of K-Swiss Trainers cost €60 here and in Britain they are only £40

A Mcdonalds Medium Big Mac Meal costs €6.00 here and £3.69-£3.89 in the UK

A ball dress that costs £225 in the North, is €390 in the Republic.

Greece is going to default, along with Spain/Portugal and us the longer we stay in a zone that is over-priced and prolonging recession that is killing recovery.

Eh, our trade surplus last year was 38.7bn.

We exported 37.4bn to the EU exluding the UK

We exported 31bn to the UK and US combined.

Our bond rates would be unmanageable without support from Europe.

The high level of our cost base has nothing to do with our euro membership, it's to do with paying ourselves ridiculous wages with borrowed money.

DaBrow

Scarab80 wrote: »

Eh, our trade surplus last year was 38.7bn.

We exported 37.4bn to the EU exluding the UK

We exported 31bn to the UK and US combined.

Our bond rates would be unmanageable without support from Europe.

The high level of our cost base has nothing to do with our euro membership, it's to do with paying ourselves ridiculous wages with borrowed money.

"Exports - partners:
US 18.9%, UK 18.4%, Belgium 14.6%, Germany 6.9%, France 5.8%, Spain 4.2% (2008)"

"Budget:
revenues: $74.82 billion
expenditures: $104.6 billion (2009 est.)"


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html

Scarab80

DaBrow wrote: »

"Exports - partners:
US 18.9%, UK 18.4%, Belgium 14.6%, Germany 6.9%, France 5.8%, Spain 4.2% (2008)"

"Budget:
revenues: $74.82 billion
expenditures: $104.6 billion (2009 est.)"


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html

Well that's just super but there are more than 4 countries in the EU.

CSO figures based on actual customs and intrastat information...

Detailed - 2009

Summary - 2009

oilibhear

Really, it is getting repetitive the amount of times it is said that the UK is our biggest trading parter. Just follow the links that you have been given.

The Eurozone is by far our run-away greatest trading partner. We sell more stuff into Belgium alone than we do to the UK. We *buy* a lot from the UK, but only a little more that we buy from the Eurozone - and our *sales* to the Eurozone (remember, we are an *export* economy) are three times what they are to the UK.

The UK is an important trading parter - but the Eurzone is our most important market by a great distance.

Euro_Kraut

oilibhear wrote: »

Really, it is getting repetitive the amount of times it is said that the UK is our biggest trading parter. Just follow the links that you have been given.

The Eurozone is by far our run-away greatest trading partner. We sell more stuff into Belgium alone than we do to the UK. We *buy* a lot from the UK, but only a little more that we buy from the Eurozone - and our *sales* to the Eurozone (remember, we are an *export* economy) are three times what they are to the UK.

The UK is an important trading parter - but the Eurzone is our most important market by a great distance.

But you can't trust the facts!! Me I like to base economic policy on half thoughtout proposals I post on the web in order to get myself a little bit of attention.






The above was satire. Bad satire.

cson

DaBrow wrote: »

A pair of K-Swiss Trainers cost €60 here and in Britain they are only £40

A Mcdonalds Medium Big Mac Meal costs €6.00 here and £3.69-£3.89 in the UK

A ball dress that costs £225 in the North, is €390 in the Republic.

Greece is going to default, along with Spain/Portugal and us the longer we stay in a zone that is over-priced and prolonging recession that is killing recovery.

Ah yes, I see you've invoked the McDonalds Medium Big Mac Meal argument in favour of us leaving the Euro, supported by the K-Swiss Trainer supposition. In light of such damning evidence, we must surely get off this sinking ship back into British arms!

oilibhear

DaBrow wrote: »

A Mcdonalds Medium Big Mac Meal costs €6.00 here and £3.69-£3.89 in the UK...

cson wrote: »

Ah yes, I see you've invoked the McDonalds Medium Big Mac Meal argument in favour of us leaving the Euro...

There is the "Big Mac Index". It does however need you to assume an equal market in each currency area (e.g. is the price of doing business the same in Berlin as it is in Bangkok?)

If you believe it, it would suggest the Euro is over-valued compared to sterling (or at least was in March), thus explaining at least a part of why the Medium Big Mac Meal would cost more. Digging a little deeper however exposes a nasty truth: our Big Mac's cost most of all within the Eurozone - meaning, we can't just blame the value of the Euro, we have to look at our own costs too.

cson

The Big Mac index is one thing; arguing for it as a basis for leaving the Euro and adopting Sterling is quite another. Whilst using such a globalised brand like McDonalds in price comparison tests can be somewhat useful; it's about as effective as trying to measure inches with a metre stick. You can make an educated guess but it'll never be precise - as with McDonalds there is just too many variables in their respective costs of production for it to be anything other than a very very rough guideline.

Japer

oilibhear wrote: »

What little say we have in the ECB rate or the value of the Euro, we would have zero say in the value of Sterling (or the rate set by the BoE) without rejoining the UK - and if there has been any lesson to be gathered from the history of these islands since 1169 it is that, Euro or no Euro, being governed from London is not in our interests.

Being part of the euro currency, where interest rates were set in Germany and France to suit the French and Germans, clearly done more damage in the five years ( in terms of the damage done to the economy and the amount of money our country owes , directly or indirectly ) than the centuries we were linked with the UK. The UK could and does set interest rates to suit itself. Had we been able to do so 5 or 7 years ago, we would not have had the property bubble we had. Of course we could have done with some political guidance from abroad as well, in terms of how our govt squandered billions on p.s. pay, how they threw fuel on the fire with tax incentives etc. The guidance did not come from Europe...instead they lent us hundreds of buillions of euro, to destroy our childrens future ....maybe they thought we were as a country capable of self governance?

cson

You answered your own question with the last line there Japer.

We're big boys now and we shouldn't have needed Europe to hold our hand through those times.

murphaph

Japer wrote: »

Being part of the euro currency, where interest rates were set in Germany and France to suit the French and Germans, clearly done more damage in the five years ( in terms of the damage done to the economy and the amount of money our country owes , directly or indirectly ) than the centuries we were linked with the UK. The UK could and does set interest rates to suit itself. Had we been able to do so 5 or 7 years ago, we would not have had the property bubble we had. Of course we could have done with some political guidance from abroad as well, in terms of how our govt squandered billions on p.s. pay, how they threw fuel on the fire with tax incentives etc. The guidance did not come from Europe...instead they lent us hundreds of buillions of euro, to destroy our childrens future ....maybe they thought we were as a country capable of self governance?

There was political guidance from abroad! The German finance minister (forget his name now) made some very public statements about our overheating economy and he was politely told to mind his own business by Messrs. Ahern and McCreevy....and the public jeered them on! These warnings have been coming for a long time, but paddy kept electing FF. Please don't blame our membership of the Euro for our own stupid mistakes. Other countries who weren't in recession (Sweden etc.) didn't rush out and stock up on debt. We weren't prudent enough as a nation and now we must pay for it.

"Europe" didn't lend us the money btw, the money was lent by private banks to our banks, which lent it on to consumers or bought government bonds with it. We made this mess ourselves...nobody to blame but ourselves.

oilibhear

cson wrote: »

...such a globalised brand like McDonalds in price comparison tests can be somewhat useful; it's about as effective as trying to measure inches with a metre stick.

I like that comparison - and I agree.

Japer wrote: »

...clearly done more damage in the five years ( in terms of the damage done to the economy and the amount of money our country owes , directly or indirectly ) than the centuries we were linked with the UK.

You must be from another planet. Welcome, space traveller.

Just to fill you in, when Ireland joined the UK in 1801 we were poor but one of the most populous countries in Europe and was industrialising at the same rate as other like economies on the continent. By the time we left the UK we were among the least populous of European countries and our economy was essentially a peasant one. Owing to our involvement with the United Kingdom, we are the only country in Europe not to have experienced an industrial revolution. Indeed, we went backwards from a proto-industrial economy to an essential subsistence agrarian economy over the period of our involvement with the UK. We are the only country in the world to have experienced a population drop over the 19th century. The average European country grew by a multiple of 2.5, we fell in population by a third 1801-1914 (halving in population since 1845). Our population haemorrhage over the course of our involvement with the United Kingdom is incomparable to anywhere else at any time outside of times of great war and or extreme famine. It was so far reaching an deeply cutting that it only ended in County Leitrim in 2002 (Leitrim not experiencing a rise in population since 1845 until that year).

There is a lot of bull about how the UK and Ireland but make no bones about it: our involvement with the United Kingdom during the 19th century has permanently and very dramatically marked the demographics and economy of this country for the worse. It is very difficult for us to imagine an Ireland that that was a populous as England, the Netherlands or Belgium. It is very difficult to imagine that we will ever be that populous again.

Our current trifle (an properly bubble and consequential fiscal crisis) is nothing comparable to that disaster. We will recover from this comparable inconvenience within a few years.

Japer wrote: »

The UK could and does set interest rates to suit itself.

Indeed. And not us.

Japer wrote: »

...maybe they thought we were as a country capable of self governance?

Maybe indeed. That is a question we need to ask of ourselves. I don't think there is any use in giving much over time to discussion about the role of the ECB in the crisis. It is academic. The real and substantial questions are to be asked of ourselves and the role we played in our own near-bankruptcy.

Leaving the Euro is not the question. Changing our system of governance (the electoral system, the parliamentary system, regulator systems, and so on) is where the meat of the discussion should be at.

SlabMurphy

Amhran Nua wrote: »

The UK is almost worse off than Greece in terms of borrowing to cover their spending. If there was one European country in deeper than us, it would be them, they wouldn't be allowed to join the Euro even if they wanted to. The idea of actually converting to sterling (the situation we were basically in before joining the euro) is laughable to put it mildly.

Totally agree. Doubtless the OP will want us to rejoin the Commonwealth, instate Mrs Windsor as head of state, the Irish army should be sent to Afghanistan and operate under the command of the Brits, Croke Park to be turned into a cricket stadium, etc, etc, etc :rolleyes:

murphaph

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Totally agree. Doubtless the OP will want us to rejoin the Commonwealth, instate Mrs Windsor as head of state, the Irish army should be sent to Afghanistan and operate under the command of the Brits, Croke Park to be turned into a cricket stadium, etc, etc, etc :rolleyes:

I assume you're in favour of maintaining the Euro as our currency. Does that mean you want to invade Poland or that the national language should be German? Of course not, stop needlessly politicising this debate please.

I am against leaving the Euro for our own reasons. Nothing to do with a dislike of the Brits or a sycophantic liking of the Germans and French. Just for economic reasons.

oilibhear

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Doubtless the OP will want us to rejoin the Commonwealth, instate Mrs Windsor as head of state, the Irish army should be sent to Afghanistan and operate under the command of the Brits, Croke Park to be turned into a cricket stadium, etc, etc, etc :rolleyes:

murphaph wrote: »

...stop needlessly politicising this debate please.

100% agree with murphaph. Can we not please get over this sort of ignorant nationalist slurry? What has it got to do with anything? It only serves to perpetuate ignorance of our own history and stifle debate about our current situation and where we want to be as a nation.

I'm serious but it is these sort of comments about what it is to be "Irish" and question about one's "Irishness" that led to the situation where children could be f*cked up the arse in industrial schools and no-one have the nerve to stick their heads above the parapet and say anything about it. It's a load of boll*cks.

I swear I'd prefer to see the Union Flag raised again in the morning over the GPO than spend another minute in a state as f*cked up and as far up its own hole as we had become.