Heineken Cup Matches to Go to Terrestrial TV...probably

toomevara

Interesting piece from the Indo today...

Minister to put Heineken Cup rugby matches on free TV list.

Aine Kerr
Friday April 30 2010
RUGBY fans can look forward to watching Heineken Cup matches live on their regular free Irish television channels, the Irish Independent has learned.

Communications Minister Eamon Ryan obtained cabinet approval this week to try to wrestle the matches from major sports channels that charge viewers.

Government ministers approved his plan to add the Heineken Cup qualifiers, quarter-finals, semi-finals and final to the "free to air" list when an Irish team is participating.

The Government will now have to get its decision passed by the European Commission and prove that the Heineken matches are of "major national importance to society".

Previous free-to-air list proposals have been rubber-stamped without any great dispute or difficulty.

Under the Audiovisual Media Services Directive (2007), EU member states may designate certain sporting and cultural events as being of major importance to society.

Up until now, rugby fans had to rely on costly sports television packages or deferred television coverage to see Heineken Cup matches. When Leinster and Munster met in the Heineken semi-final in Croke Park last year, supporters had to descend on pubs with Sky Sports, listen in on radio or wait for the deferred television coverage.

The Government's proposed changes will represent a significant loss to major sports channels and sports bodies in terms of revenue.

Over 12 months ago, members of the public were asked to make suggestions to the Government on what they believed should be "free to air" on Irish television channels.

If the Government gets its proposals passed at European level, any contracts or deals with Sky Sports will remain in place but the channel will have to make the matches available to RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 at "normal market rates".

It means the Sky logo could still appear on Irish television screens during the matches but with commentary coming from the Irish stations.

Mr Ryan last night told the Irish Independent he believed the rugby events were "part of what we are" and "should be available to as many people as possible".

By law, the new proposed list of free-to-air events must now go to public consultation to allow the public, broadcasters and stakeholders to respond. Advertisements will appear in the media on Monday inviting a response to the decision.

Sports bodies and sports channels are likely to object as they would suffer a loss in revenue if the rugby matches are taken away from the larger sports channels that pay significant fees to obtain rights to the matches.

Currently, the summer Olympics, the All-Ireland senior football and hurling finals, qualifying games in the European football championship, opening games, the semi-finals and the final of the European Championship and the FIFA World Cup Finals are on the free-to-air list.

Also on the list are games in the rugby World Cup, the Six Nations, the Irish Grand National and the Irish Derby and the Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show.

In 2002, the Government drew up its first list of free-to-air events after RTE lost the right to screen live coverage of Ireland's home soccer matches for four years to Sky Sports. A year later, the Government designated home games among sports events as free to air.

In 2006, RTE urged the Government to obtain the broadcasting rights for the Ryder Cup at the K Club from Sky Sports and provide it for free in the "national interest".

After a three-month review, the Government agreed to provide deferred coverage.

phog

Good and bad, I suppose RTE or TV3 will only show home matches and the qualifiers if an Irish team are participating. With Sky at least you get the full schedule of games.

Crash

Ah in all fairness, RTE love their HC - will get both home and away games in the group stages.

JJ

I'd say while the sports bodies might miss some of the revenue they get now, they'll make more money in the long run with more younger people getting into rugby. I'm also sick of the boring commentary before, during and after matches on Sky Sports and this means I can cancel my subscription with them each year after the NFL season is over.

Podge_irl

Whats the bets Ulster and Connacht end up getting no matches televised?

I'd be surprised if this went through. The knock-out stages I can understand, but requiring all Irish group stage games to be free to air is quite a big step.

PhatPiggins

JJ wrote: »

I'd say while the sports bodies might miss some of the revenue they get now, they'll make more money in the long run with more younger people getting into rugby. I'm also sick of the boring commentary before, during and after matches on Sky Sports and this means I can cancel my subscription with them each year after the NFL season is over.

The commentary isn't great but their coverage is second to none. Personally I dont care if its on RTE or Sky as long as its on TV. I'd be more concerned about ML coverage now that Setanta are dropping it.

Podge_irl

PhatPiggins wrote: »

The commentary isn't great but their coverage is second to none. Personally I dont care if its on RTE or Sky as long as its on TV. I'd be more concerned about ML coverage now that Setanta are dropping it.

Setanta aren't dropping it so much as RTÉ/TG4 outbid them for the rights. Between those two and S4C/BBCW I imagine we'll still get most all the games (though I worry about the quality of the coverage).

Sky do an excellent job with the HEC and it's popularity is in no small part thanks to them.

Minstrel27

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about ML coverage now that Setanta are dropping it.

Have Setanta come out and say that they are dropping the ML?

Webbs

Podge_irl wrote: »

Setanta aren't dropping it so much as RTÉ/TG4 outbid them for the rights. Between those two and S4C/BBCW I imagine we'll still get most all the games (though I worry about the quality of the coverage).

Sky do an excellent job with the HEC and it's popularity is in no small part thanks to them.

For the Welsh games doesnt coverage come from S4C/BBCW at present anyway?
A lot of the analysis on Setanta is pretty staid stuff and the commentary is more often than not absolutely dire (do setanta not even give the team sheets to the commentators!)

Sky are OK with their rugby coverage, I dont think its anything amazing.

I also think SKY have slowed the development of rugby as a spectacle, I think the HEC would be even more popular if it had been on terrestrial TV, thinking back esp to 2003 when England won the WC, the interest in rugby was immense and yet as HEC was on Sky the momentum from the WC just stopped as few people got to watch the HEC.
And yes I realise that the majority of that interest came from England but that is still the biggest rugby playing nation and the obvious huge media machine

Podge_irl

There are a number of arguments either way. Sky cover nigh on every single game and do a lot to hype up the competition. If it was left to RTÉ to cover it Connacht and Ulster would never have their games televised. Certainly no station would cover 7/8 games in a weekend. BBC would like some more rugby but they'd show maybe two games in a weekend.

A fair number of people have access to Sky just by going to the pub, which is what I always do.

Aidric

If it means me not having to ever listen to Mark Robson commentating on a match again then it's a bloody great move.

Digifriendly

According to the article Sky will continue to cover Irish sides in HEC with RTE permitted live coverage as they had been doing up until a few years back. At least this should mean the final will be live FTA as back in 2004 and 2005 when there were no Irish sides in the final RTE still covered the final live. So good news for those who are rugby fans and don't pay a subscription at present.

Minstrel27

Podge_irl wrote: »

There are a number of arguments either way. Sky cover nigh on every single game and do a lot to hype up the competition. If it was left to RTÉ to cover it Connacht and Ulster would never have their games televised. Certainly no station would cover 7/8 games in a weekend. BBC would like some more rugby but they'd show maybe two games in a weekend.

A fair number of people have access to Sky just by going to the pub, which is what I always do.

Sky would continue to show games.

profitius

JJ wrote: »

I'd say while the sports bodies might miss some of the revenue they get now, they'll make more money in the long run with more younger people getting into rugby.

And thats the main point. A large percentage of the population have no coverage of these matches and that means alot of young people not being able to watch rugby and not being able to capture their imagination.

More coverage could benefit the teams indirectly in terms of sponsorship.

channelsurfer2

the key point of the article is that it will only be on rte if there are irish sides involved. so in the event that the final does not involve munster, leinster etc then the status quo stays and it wont be live on rte.

PhatPiggins

Aidric wrote: »

If it means me not having to ever listen to Mark Robson commentating on a match again then it's a bloody great move.

Two words that will send shivers down the spine of anyone who knows even the basic rules of rugby:

Ryle Nugent :eek:

Be afraid, be very afraid.

sock puppet

profitius wrote: »

And thats the main point. A large percentage of the population have no coverage of these matches and that means alot of young people not being able to watch rugby and not being able to capture their imagination.

More coverage could benefit the teams indirectly in terms of sponsorship.

If teams thought they could benefit from showing games on FTA then the ERC wouldn't bother with Sky.


Don't the French already show some games on FTA? I've watched a good few games on fr2.

Digifriendly

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

the key point of the article is that it will only be on rte if there are irish sides involved. so in the event that the final does not involve munster, leinster etc then the status quo stays and it wont be live on rte.

Apologies as I didn't read the original article carefully. This would be a pity as it would be less than what Irish viewers had when RTE last had rights to live HEC rugby. Remember RTE covering a semi-final live one year (think it was Leicester vs Toulouse) when no Irish side was involved.

icdg

As I recall the FAI backed down when faced with this exact scenario and renegotiated its deal with the Sky for live home games to give Sky non-exclusive rights in Ireland. I wonder will the ERC back down or will they take it to court?

Otherwise they will have to re-negotiate their deal with Sky as the FAI did, and like the FAI I imagine this will involve a significant drop in the amount of money Sky will be paying them in future. The cost of the Irish rights for ERC tournaments will be severely devalued if this happens - after all there won't be much of a contest (it will be either RTÉ or TG4, since TV3 are unlikely to give up a prime-time Friday slot to show games).

Also don't expect Connacht or Ulster to get much, if any coverage if this happens. RTÉ have highlights rights to tonights Amlin Challenge Cup semi-final but AFAIK are not doing anything tonight. They might perhaps 5 minutes tacked on to the end of their Heineken Cup coverage tommorow...

siochain

great news, i hope this goes ahead

rebel girl 15

siochain wrote: »

great news, i hope this goes ahead

+1 delighted to see a move like this

irishbucsfan

Hopefully Sky will still broadcast the games, and the deal will be renegotiated to be non-exclusive.

Obviously it'll mean less money for the clubs, but if it generates more interest in the sport then it will benefit them in the long term. (Having the best rugby competition in the world on FTA can only be good for the sport.)

If it happens then RTE will have tons of rugby to show next year, with the ML, HC and Internationals. Good stuff! Too bad ALL their commentators are awful...

durkadurka

Aidric wrote: »

If it means me not having to ever listen to Mark Robson commentating on a match again then it's a bloody great move.

His performance last night was ...... Epic.......

JustinDee

siochain wrote: »

great news, i hope this goes ahead

It also has its downside. The game here would lose a lot of money given what Sky pay for TV rights.

JJ

The Leinster chief executive has said he opposes this move:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0506/1224269791205.html

I know the IRFU would lose a chunk of change because of this but would it really mean that we would lose all our best players to England?

irishbucsfan

JJ wrote: »

The Leinster chief executive has said he opposes this move:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0506/1224269791205.html

I know the IRFU would lose a chunk of change because of this but would it really mean that we would lose all our best players to England?

On average, more than half of a modern sports team's budget is their TV revenue (The Economist had a very interesting article about that in their TV Special).

I'd imagine that at least 60% of their budget (maybe someone with more knowldege of the Irish provinces) is spent on player wages.

The deal to move TV coverage to RTE will significantly decrease the revenue of the provinces and the IRFU.

It would probably have the biggest impact on the provinces abilities to hold on to players like Fergus McFadden, or Steven Keogh. And I'd imagine teams would have to consider seriously decreasing the budget of their academies (which would be a travesty). The provinces would find it much harder to give chances to players like Kevin McLaughlin.

The more I think about this deal the more I realise what a disaster it could be.

justsomebloke

as a rugby fan without sky sports I would like to see the games on FTA however not to the detriment of Irish Rugby.

I know some people are saying that we may lose some of the players due to lack of money however could it also mean that we may have to say good bye to Connacht?

Yes it is a bit sensationalist but the IRFU may see the reduction in money as the final nail in the coffin.

Podge_irl

Is it really that much hassle to just go to the local pub to watch the games? I realise it's occasionally annoying to have to do but it's that or have the price of tickets increase and revenue decrease for the teams. It strikes me that this is just pathetic attempted pandering from Ryan.

B0X

Having read a good few articles about this, it seems like it would be massively detrimental to the provinces. Some (the Times and the Indo I think) were certain it would mean Connacht would be dropped due to the loss of revenue to the sport.

JustinDee

JJ wrote: »

I know the IRFU would lose a chunk of change because of this but would it really mean that we would lose all our best players to England?

That chunk of change is a large form of revenue spent on the game in each province here, not just paying professional players.

Losing such an amount does not bode well at all.

Ciaran-Irl

This would be absolutely terrible. The IRFU has done an amazing job of competing with the financial might of England & France, but this would cripple them. Imagine shamrock rovers playing Arsenal, and how far rugby is from that. That is how good a job the IRFU have done in financial terms.

channelsurfer2

well I may for one welcome the decision... the key point people seem to be forgetting is that there will be a clause that rte/tv3 will have to pay "market rates" for it. so if sky are paying x and that is considered the market rate then if rte wont/cant pay it then it will stay exclusive to sky.. that will be the irfu's (and eamonn ryan's) get out of jail card on this one ...

kmick

I am glad - I have not seen a Munster/Leinster match since they moved to SKY couple of years back. SKY have all but eliminated the casual viewer from golf, soccer, rugby and Ireland away games.

Hippo

Terrible in revenue terms for the Irish game, usual piece of grandstanding from Minister Ryan. Buy a subscription or go to the pub.

Digifriendly

kmick wrote: »

I am glad - I have not seen a Munster/Leinster match since they moved to SKY couple of years back. SKY have all but eliminated the casual viewer from golf, soccer, rugby and Ireland away games.

You mean you haven't seen a live HEC match featuring Munster/Leinster. Remember RTE have shown highlights of all HEC matches featuring these 2 teams. Also does 'Ireland away' refer only to the soccer team? Ireland's away games in the 6 nations are FTA on both BBC/RTE although southern hemisphere tests tend to be only on Sky with exception of Argentina away.

sock puppet

Digifriendly wrote: »

You mean you haven't seen a live HEC match featuring Munster/Leinster. Remember RTE have shown highlights of all HEC matches featuring these 2 teams. Also does 'Ireland away' refer only to the soccer team?

Sky show the June tests.

JustinDee

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

well I may for one welcome the decision... the key point people seem to be forgetting is that there will be a clause that rte/tv3 will have to pay "market rates" for it. so if sky are paying x and that is considered the market rate then if rte wont/cant pay it then it will stay exclusive to sky

That is not how it is valued. What determines market rates is income from ownership of the TV rights. Not ownership of the TV rights alone. That is why the price goes as high as it does.

[Jackass]

Typical RTE...they lost rights to EVERYTHING of interest sports wise.....they have to rely on amending the law to show anything decent...i dont miss paying a couple of hundred quid a year for nothing, but hope this goes ahead.

phog

I've mixed views on this, I'm all for rugby being available on free to view TV but if it has the drain on dosh from the IRFU as has been mentioned then it will lead to a very lean period for the provinces.

It might be great for the viewers but bad for the game.

Another thing I really dont see anyone offering the range of matches that have been provided by Sky and to a lesser extent Setanta. Remember last year when Munster's game had to be rescheduled in France and it clashed with Leinster's game, Sky showed both one via the red button, would RTE ot TV3 done this?

Jemo

It seems the provinces and IRFU are firmly against this move, and I would have to agree. Sky offers a good service and shows a large amount of the matches, including ulster and connacht games. RTE will not even show the full games between leinster and munster in a non prime time slot at current, only extended highlights. I don't personally have skysports but to go down to the pub for two hours and have a coffee or a drink isn't a big deal. It's also a pretty important source of business for the faltering bar and restaurant trade.Whilst I would like to watch it at home, this should not come at the detriment of rugby in Ireland. And in any case, I'd imagine that rte already have enough rugby on their plate next year with the magners league.

thomond2006

I think the ML should definitely be FTA, it needs more exposure.

Heineken Cup is different, Sky's excellent coverage is one of the reasons it's become so big.

Like Jemo, I go to my local to watch the games, pub is always packed for the Munster matches.

danthefan

I am completely dead set against making the HEC free to air. This is Ireland ffs, every man woman and child in the country has a pub within walking distance of them at all times.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

I am completely dead set against making the HEC free to air. This is Ireland ffs, every man woman and child in the country has a pub within walking distance of them at all times.

They don't actually! For instance, where I'm from the nearest pub that would have sky is 10km away.

themont85

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think the ML should definitely be FTA, it needs more exposure.

Heineken Cup is different, Sky's excellent coverage is one of the reasons it's become so big.

Like Jemo, I go to my local to watch the games, pub is always packed for the Munster matches.

RTÉ is why the HC is so big in this country not Sky. What would the difference be if RTÉ hadn't shown all those big games up until 2006? TBH Sky swooped in on the brand that RTÉ was probably the biggest factor in building here in Ireland and of course RTÉ couldn't compete then. That's the way usually operate though barring some events that they actually help increase viewers for. Their coverage is very good but isn't the reason it has become big in this country.

Having all of Leinster and Munster games of course is a bit much. A lot can be said for having at least the final and maybe a semi with them involved on FTA though. I've no doubt that Sky pay more than RTÉ did, however, Leinster/Munster were competing well long before they took exclusivity. Its a not true to say they weren't.

Digifriendly

Anyone any idea what rough viewing figures for Setanta have been this season when they show ML games or even how many subscribers Setanta have across the island? Obviously Sky has a bigger audience but would be interesting to know nonetheless. There's little doubt when live sports move from FTA and are on subscription only the audience figures drop considerably even if you factor in those who go to pubs/clubs etc to watch.

anonymous_joe

I really really don't mind the games being on Sky, even though I don't have Sky.

Primarily because, I've never watched a Leinster Heineken Cup match at home, and pretty much never watch the ML games on my own.

I support Leinster, my mates do too. If we're not at a game, we're in the pub.

Sky offer decent coverage, but more than that, they offer money. Lots of lovely tasty money, and our provincial sides need that to compete with the French and Brits.

irishbucsfan

themont85 wrote: »

Having all of Leinster and Munster games of course is a bit much. A lot can be said for having at least the final and maybe a semi with them involved on FTA though. I've no doubt that Sky pay more than RTÉ did, however, Leinster/Munster were competing well long before they took exclusivity. Its a not true to say they weren't.

You mean it's not true to say that players like Shane Jennings, Leo Cullen, Geordan Murphy, Trevor Brennan, Kevin Maggs, Bob Casey, Mick O'Driscoll, Keith Woods and so on didn't go abroad to get contracts back in the day before the Sky money came into the provinces?

Of course it makes a difference. Sky have the money. We need the money. If RTE want the coverage of the H Cup then let them come up with the money to make the ERC a decent offer for rights. If they have to change the law to get them then it's clear that they're unable to offer the ERC a competitive offer.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Jennings, Casey, Cullen and Brennan left because they weren't getting selected for Leinster.

danthefan

Madden Deafening Underclassman wrote: »

Jennings, Casey, Cullen and Brennan left because they weren't getting selected for Leinster.

Jennings - simply not true. He started far more often than not in his last two seasons with Leinster before leaving, also had some injury issues.

Cullen - again in 04/05, his last season with Leinster before leaving, he started nearly every game, including all our HEC games. Definitely first choice that season.

Casey and Brennan I can't remember.

PhatPiggins

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You mean it's not true to say that players like Shane Jennings, Leo Cullen, Geordan Murphy, Trevor Brennan, Kevin Maggs, Bob Casey, Mick O'Driscoll, Keith Woods and so on didn't go abroad to get contracts back in the day before the Sky money came into the provinces?

Of course it makes a difference. Sky have the money. We need the money. If RTE want the coverage of the H Cup then let them come up with the money to make the ERC a decent offer for rights. If they have to change the law to get them then it's clear that they're unable to offer the ERC a competitive offer.

How long has the HC been exclusively on Sky?

irishbucsfan

Madden Deafening Underclassman wrote: »

Jennings, Casey, Cullen and Brennan left because they weren't getting selected for Leinster.

Someone in another thread posted our starting team from the 2002 Semi-Final and all of those players were starting.

How long has the HC been exclusively on Sky?

I can't remember. But themont85 said 2006. Which would seem to coincide perfectly with the rise to power of our provinces in Europe.