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Burka ban
Comments
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I'm religious and support the ban
Your logic is flawed.My point is very straight forward & simple.
It's legal to carry any drug for personal use in Columbia so it should be ok for a Columbian to carry any drug he sees fit (as long as it's for personal consumption) while here in Ireland.
Just as long as we're talking about tolerance of foreign cultures here. We have to respect all of them right? Or is it just the ones we don't like?
Drug possession is not illegal in Ireland because it's legal in Colombia.
The Irish law is not written as a tit for tat response to Colombian law, so I fail to see what relevance your reference to Colombia has in this discussion.
The burqa should not be outlawed here just because it is enforced in another country. That however, is what you would like.0 -
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I'm non-religious and do not support the banmagicbastarder wrote: »that's all immaterial for a basis on which to ban it.
You think how an idea propagates is irrelevent to why you should ban it?because you cannot give people human rights by taking human rights away.
We do it all the time. People cannot be have complete freedom as they will not hesitate to step on other peoples human rights. We have to balance what people get to do with how it effects everyone else.your explanation fell down in several places. Once again, a garment cannot harm society.
Its not just wearing the garment. Its what wearing the garment represents. Wearing a white sheet over your head means very little, but wear one of these:
in full support of the ideals it represents, and you do hurt society.by your logic, we are all coerced into wearing clothes by law, so we should ban clothes because they constitute coercion? We are coerced into wearing modest clothing in a Christian church, so the state should ban modest clothing because it is coercion?
Stop trying to boil my points down to something they are not. Everyone is coerced into everything. There are over 6 billion people in the world, all climbing over each other top get what we want, all interacting with each other, all influencing each other. Coercion is inevitable. But there is a difference between the coercionwhere you stop someone speeding in order to protect people and where you coerce someone into wearing a demeaning garment in order to dominate them. Why you coerce is key.but anyway, so the solution is to ban it and force the people wearing it to stay at home?
No-one is forcing them to stay at home.If you think that God will punish you for not wearing a burka, what do you think will happen to a woman who is wearing a burka at the moment if a ban is introduced? Tell me.
She will have to start question her preconceptions.if those painkillers could cause more harm than good to a large number of patients then the answer has to be 'yes'.
The burka ban will do more good than harm.false argument. So if I wear a Man Utd kit then it shows support for people other than elected officials? So Man Utd kits should be banned?
You have not been coerced into wearing the kit under the promise of an eternity of pain and suffereing, so not really complaring like with like.What if I wear an England football shirt. That's even worse: I show support for a foreign power! One that oppressed Ireland no less! Surely that encourages me to unquestionably support the Evil English, and should be banned also!
As aboveSeriously, arguing like this you can ban anything at all. It's a free country: I should be able to show support for whoever the hell I like. In fact, to not let me do this is a restriction of my FREE SPEECH!
There is a difference between free speech and freedom of consequence. You can show support for whatever you like, but society is allowed to then say that you are wrong and will not be tollerated.of course you need to know everyone's case. You are claiming that having X people banned from wearing the burka will make their lives better. On what grounds are you making that claim, without even knowing them?
I have already explained this. Read my posts. You cannot know everyones case for everything.apples and oranges. Wearing a burka does NOT make you unsafe.
Already explained this.by banning the burka you are making things MORE DIFFICULT for those women. How hard is that to understand? Instead of fixing your are making things WORSE.
No. By making it more difficult, we are forcing these women (and their families) to actually think about their situations and the rules they live by. This will strengthen them. Its like how you add weights to a work to make it harder, it will just make you stronger.Beating someone up is illegal no matter what the victim chooses.
Heard of boxing, have you?Are you familiar with how law works? Beating someone up is illegal no matter what the victim chooses. You commit crimes before the state, not before the victim. So those counter-arguments will be invalid.
I'm not just talking about the violent issues. There are also issues of equality in law and in church.who mentioned racism? Islam is not a race.
Religious biasism then.I am just saying that many people do not like Islam and want to see less Muslims around. And so they propose laws that would make Muslims leave European countries, justifying them with things like 'liberation of women'. But you simply cannot liberate someone by banning things.
My girlfriend is muslim, so dont presume to make judgements on people to support your own religious biases. I dont dislike muslims and I dont want muslims to leave europe (even if I did dislike them, it would be awfully short sighted of me to want to send them to countries where their beliefs, so dislike by me, would just be unquestioningly supported. Better to have them here and drive them to change).and the people I am talking about are people who are already TRYING to get away, but can't, through circumstances. Let's help people who actually want to get out first, shall we?
And how do we do that? These people cannot get out of their domineering families? Should we investigate every burka wearing family as a matter of procedure, cause I'm sure they would love that.Beruthiel's link
Maybe I'm just going blind, but you will need to point out the page in the link that supports your claim that "Thousands of muslim women in france go and seek help, but the resources are so stretched that not a lot can be done."But wearing the burka is NOT the same as flagellation. You are just repeating 'burka is abuse' without justification. How can a garment constitute abuse if worn willingly?
You are ignoring my point. Flagelation is abuse, but if we convince someone to do it themsleves then they wont see it as abuse. The burka is they same. Its not physical abuse, but it is still abuse of their femininity and individuality.Can you prove to me that a large number of women do not wear it willingly? Surely not allowing people to wear a garment is a lot more abusive? In a way the French state is doing exactly what radical muslim men are doing by trying to control women's clothing.
I already did. Can you prove they are wearing it willingly? Without any coercion from people playing on their fears, basing it on their unquestining subserviance and acceptance?That's a big price to pay for something so insignificant. Do you think a muslim husband will think 'hey, I have less support from the state, so I won't beat my wife today'? Naive. If you attack Islam in such a lame way it will increase radicalisation, as people will go on the defensive.
Do you think if we continue on without banning it that mulsim husbands will change?another statement without basis. Go back to quote no. 2: you say that those women think that not wearing the burka will send them to hell: do you REALLY think that they will question its point so easily?
Do you honetsly think they wont at least question why the government is questioning the burka? That this line of questioning wont lead thme to discussing the burka itself? Sure, there indoctrination may not let reach any signoficant conclusion, but its better then doing nothing.I come from Russia, a country that tried to eradicate religion for 73 years. They failed: they pushed it underground, but in the end only made it stronger. Religious beliefs flourish in adversity.
Who is trying to eradicate religion?0 -
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