Burka ban

Absolam

I'm religious and support the ban

130Kph wrote: »

This was a thought experiment more than an analogy. Let’s say 600 3rd generation Chinese women in Ireland (a small %) bound their feet to this day. Surveys were done over the years which showed 65% did it ‘voluntarily’ and said it was her choice and the other 35% hated it and said it was making her life a misery. It would not surprise me (sadly) if some fringe cultural relativists were campaigning against anyone trying to stop it here screeching: “leave the foot-binding alone, you ethno-centrist, neo-imperialist <insert other labels here>” or some other such absolutist sloganeering. Of course, being conditioned to wear a burka is nowhere near as bad – but the principals involved are in essence, the same – which is what I was getting at. Since this is just hypothetical, there’s no point in going into exhaustive detail since these figures are just conjectured.

Would the short version be you just think some people are socially conditioned to think wearing the burka is a good thing, even if not actually associable with ancient tortuous practices? That's probably true; we all grow up with various peccadilloes based on how we are raised. We just don't usually have legislation introduced to prevent us indulging them. By and large...

robindch

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Bulgaria is beginning to make noises about banning the niqab:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36360764

511

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Garments that obscure a person's face should definitely be banned in banks, post offices and shops as it defeats the purpose of having CCTV/IP cameras to identify troublemakers. Religious minorities should never be exempt from this.

Worztron

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

511 wrote: »

Garments that obscure a person's face should definitely be banned banks, post offices, and shops as it defeats the purpose of having CCTV/IP cameras to identify troublemakers. Religious minorities should never be exempt from this.

+1

Hotblack Desiato

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Compulsory nakedness in public places might be the way to go, you can't cram that much C4 up your orifices so it'd reduce the risk of suicide bombings to almost nil.

511

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Compulsory nakedness in public places might be the way to go, you can't cram that much C4 up your orifices so it'd reduce the risk of suicide bombings to almost nil.

So you're happy in the thought that underage kids will be running naked just to prevent terrorism?

pablo128

511 wrote: »

So you're happy in the thought that underage kids will be running naked just to prevent terrorism?

No. There will be no running allowed either.:pac:

MrPudding

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

pablo128 wrote: »

No. There will be no running allowed either.:pac:

Also no heavy petting or bombing. Fcuk christianity and the 10 commandments, if we lived by swiming pool rules things would be very different.

MrP

pauldla

I'm religious and support the ban

MrPudding wrote: »

Also no heavy petting or bombing. Fcuk christianity and the 10 commandments, if we lived by swiming pool rules things would be very different.

MrP

'The lifeguard shouted at me for peeing in the pool. I was so taken aback I almost fell in'.

silverharp

Another Burqa esque ban story




German public pool bans the burqini

One young woman chose to swim and do water aerobics in a burqini, eliciting loud complaints from the other women there.

The complaints reached the town officials, who decided to place a ban on the burqini as ‘non-typical’ swim attire.

“Why the burqini as a full-body suit would be necessary to wear during a women’s swim day is for me incomprehensible,” town mayor Heinz Kiechle said.

“This also contradicts the fundamental ideas of integration and mutual understanding, which is always being discussed in many towns.”

German public pool bans the burqini - The Local

recedite

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

He also said that another reason for the policy was because some refugees had reportedly tried to go swimming in only underwear, but the newspaper said the lifeguards could not confirm this

Things much simpler in the Middle East. The men go swimming wearing only their kaks, or nothing at all. The women stay at home.

smacl

I'm religious and support the ban

And on a lighter note

MrPudding

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

smacl wrote: »

And on a lighter note

That is just all kinds of awesome.

MrP

recedite

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Its a good joke, and it may even be true.
Though personally I'm inclined to take with the proverbial pinch of salt anything that starts off with a man gets on a bus and..
If these are real people, what are their names?

Heres another good one.

MrPudding

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

recedite wrote: »

Its a good joke, and it may even be true.
Though personally I'm inclined to take with the proverbial pinch of salt anything that starts off with a man gets on a bus and..
If these are real people, what are their names?

Heres another good one.

But its like religion. We ignore the fact that it is probably made up because it makes us feel good.

MrP

Hotblack Desiato

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Sure if people take comfort in their made-up stories about immigrants, what's the harm?



Oh wait.

Day Lewin

Whats the difference between a burqini, and a coloured wetsuit with a hat?

Personally, I don't like governments making laws about what I may or may not wear. My wardrobe is my own business.
I understand the fair point about not hiding the face, for security, etc: but apart from that, if I wear a hat or scarf, why should anyone care?

You expect EVERYONE to cover up their bottoms in public, this is enforceable by law: also, willies and tits. But why, really? is bare skin some crime? what's actually wrong with nudity?

I'm not even joking: criticising somebody else's standards of modesty, while clinging to your own, does not stand up to scrutiny.

recedite

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

AFAIK you would not be allowed to wear a wet suit during a public swimming pool swim session in Ireland or the UK. Not sure about Germany though.

Nor can you go in for a swim fully clothed, so its not purely a modesty issue.
Its about wearing reasonably conventional/functional attire and not taking the pi$$.

looksee

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

recedite wrote: »

AFAIK you would not be allowed to wear a wet suit during a public swimming pool swim session in Ireland or the UK. Not sure about Germany though.

Nor can you go in for a swim fully clothed, so its not purely a modesty issue.
Its about wearing reasonably conventional/functional attire and not taking the pi$$.

I was thinking about that and wondering what the issue would be for the pool if people did wear clothing other than swimwear. If someone was wearing ordinary outdoor clothing obviously there would be a matter of hygiene and fibres blocking filters. However the burkini is made of thin synthetic fabric comparable to swimwear fabric, just more of it. So why would it be a problem?

While I do think the burkini would be unpleasant to wear - all that soggy fabric wrapping around you- if someone wants to wear one I can't really think of any good reason why they would not.

I do agree with katemarch that I don't care what people wear, with the single exception of having the face covered. It is not a religious necessity, and sometimes if you expect to be integrated with a different culture it is sensible, respectful and reasonable to accommodate one's cultural customs to the culture you wish to live with.

I lived in Zambia some 40+ years ago and on the one hand word would go out that a bit of a modesty purge was going on and women would wear a kitenge - a kind of sarong - over their western dresses, until the fuss died down then it was back to the 60's mini-skirts (for africans and europeans alike). At the same time you could drive a couple of hours out from the main city and you would frequently see girls and woman walking along the road wearing only a short sarong - bare breasted. No bother. Apparently the modesty purges didn't get as far as the villages!

Hotblack Desiato

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

I heard that complete nudity is the norm in many German swimming pools, I didn't get the opportunity to check the veracity of that out personally. But (jaysus, 21 years ago) I met up for a couple of weeks in Leipzig with a mate who was working on the sites there, one day we went to the sauna and didn't see the 'Frauensauna' sign on the door until afterwards, ladies starkers all over the shop, most ignored us two somewhat embarrassed Irish guys (with towels on) but some gave us dirty looks

Edit: it was only one day a week that was supposed to be women only, sod's law and that and no, the guy on reception who had basic English didn't tip us off...

recedite

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Continental pools and saunas may have been influenced by the "Turkish baths" of old which were built in some central european countries. The norm was/is for men to wear nothing, or just a loincloth supplied at the pool. No idea what the women wear, but I doubt that the Burquini is a traditional Islamic garment in a Turkish Bath situation. The main point is that the days/times for women are strictly separate. So the Islamic tradition is more for segregation, and not so much for actual modesty in a single sex environment.
The Burquini could be a tentative Islamic response to the norms in a modern european swimming pool, where women are allowed in at the same time as men.
The fusion of two cultures if you like, which results in the worst of both.

However I note that in the example cited, the woman arrived into the pool wearing the Burquini on a "women only" day. That seems to have been what drew the ire of the local Germans.
Possibly she was trying to stir things up, or possibly she bought the garment simply because it was available, and then just wanted to try it out.
But it would not necessarily be an Islamic requirement for her to wear such a thing on a women only day.

smacl

I'm religious and support the ban

katemarch wrote: »

You expect EVERYONE to cover up their bottoms in public, this is enforceable by law: also, willies and tits. But why, really? is bare skin some crime? what's actually wrong with nudity?

Nothing really. I took part in the Spencer Tunick gig in Dublin a couple of years ago among a couple of thousand others, all getting naked together at dawn with tits and willies as far as the eye could see. I'm not aware of anyone taking offence, even when we mass mooned the Stena Hibernia.

That said, I wouldn't go walking around naked in public outside of an event like that as many people would find it gravely offensive, and even if it wasn't illegal, I would avoid causing offence unnecessarily without good reason.

robindch

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

German starts thinking about banning the burka:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37033286

silverharp

the Burkini isn't getting much love either, seems to be turning into a bit of a FU policy

Onlinemagazin ?@OnlineMagazin · 2m2 minutes ago

#Corsica: After attacks against Corsican kids by Muslims, Mayor Sisco has issued Burkini ban http://www.metronews.fr/info/corse-le-maire-de-sisco-prend-un-arrete-anti-burkini-apres-les-violences/mpho!OcZOnZPY55GSs/ …

looksee

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Reading some of the other reports it does not seem to have been about the burkini, more about people taking photographs; it is not entirely clear.

It is easy to make judgment from here, we have not been directly affected by the recent terrorist activities. However while I would continue to object to the full face cover, I think it is a bit ridiculous to ban burkinis. How do you then justify swimming in a wet suit? If a Muslim woman chooses to go into the water in a shalwa kameez type outfit (yes I know that is not necessarily Muslim), ie, fully dressed, why would anyone complain about it?

This is all to do with the tensions in that area, the burkini is just representative of the issues. It does look like an amazingly uncomfortable garment though, and very reminiscent of the Victorian outfits that looked very similar.

Hotblack Desiato

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

looksee wrote: »

It does look like an amazingly uncomfortable garment though, and very reminiscent of the Victorian outfits that looked very similar.

So there's hope that in about 120 years or so the muslims will get over it

Peregrinus

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So there's hope that in about 120 years or so the muslims will get over it

No. Natural selection will have worked its magic - we'll all have died of skin cancer, and the well-protected Muslims will have thriven.

silverharp

Peregrinus wrote: »

No. Natural selection will have worked its magic - we'll all have died of skin cancer, and the well-protected Muslims will have thriven.

Im still hanging my hat on Vit D deficiency :pac:

smacl

I'm religious and support the ban

Peregrinus wrote: »

No. Natural selection will have worked its magic - we'll all have died of skin cancer, and the well-protected Muslims will have thriven.

I think we may be safe enough from that one here in Ireland, the last bastion of semi-transparent Catholics

Peregrinus

smacl wrote: »

I think we may be safe enough from that one here in Ireland, the last bastion of semi-transparent Catholics

Far from it! We have the sixth highest melanoma rate in the world for women; the 11th-highest for men. And (unless you're a climate change denier) you can expect melanoma rates worldwide to rise with the continuing degradation of the ozone layer, so being a high-incidence nation is going to be a bigger and bigger issue for us.