Dole Drug Test?

Wazdakka

I just got a chain E-mail from a mate and I think it actually raises a good point..

I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my
taxes as it sees fit.

In order to earn that pay cheque, I work on a rig for a drilling
contractor. I am required to pass a random urine test for drugs and
alcohol, with which I have no problem.

What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people
who don't have to pass a urine test.

Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a benefits cheque because
I have to pass one to earn it for them?

Please understand that I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet.

I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their
arse drinking booze, smoking dope and generally taking all kinds of
drugs.

Could you imagine how much money the government would save if people had
to pass a urine test to get a benefit cheque?

Please pass this along if you agree or simply delete it if you don't.

Hope you will pass it along though, because something has to change and soon!

So what do you think?

Should drug screening procedures be put in place for people drawing the dole?
If they test positive, tough luck Jimmy, no cash for you.

Or is the system fine as it is?

Sea Sharp

That'd be a great way to save money. (If the cost of setting it up isn't more that the money saved.)

Weed should be a luxury that you can't afford on the dole.

starbelgrade

You should post that up on "Your Country, Your Call" - it'd save the country a bloody fortune!

Mr. Incognito

Jebus H Christ.

Why do people think of people on the dole as some sort of second class citizen.

Social welfare is there to provide for emergency situations where people find themselves out of work.

Engineers, Lawyers, Architects and nearly half a million people are out of work. These people CANNOT survive on 200 bucks a week.

Now you want to piss test them? How. Seriously. Are you going to have the state pay for 450,000 Urine tests periodically under the guise of saving money? It would cost far more than the 200 a week you're paying now

Stupid bigoted people and a stupid bigoted idea.

keithg89

what will i spend your money on then?

orourkeda

Should we have a spelling test before people can post on boards.

"unimployment" - come on there are just no excuses for this.

stovelid

I can't believe I'm actually replying to such a fuckwitted thread but what if you get made redundant and there are traces of drugs still in your system from when you were employed?

we'llallhavetea_old

i have to say no, it sounds really stupid.

xzanti

I don't see why tbh, there are plenty of perfectly functioning people who work during the week and use recreational drugs at the weekend, so if the point of the test is to weed out who's elegible for the dole, i.e. jobseekers/ those fit to work, and those who aren't, then I think it would be a bit unfair..

That's just my 2 cents tbh.. A p1ss test to see if people are working nixers while on the dole would be much more practical tbh..

Turtyturd

But all the scumbags* on the dole will just have their endless line of kids supply urine for them to pass the test. Then make more money by selling urine to the scumbags who have no kids of their own. Its a vicious circle.

Plus your not going to be in any rush to light up a joint on an oil rig.

*Might feature some stereotyping.

landsleaving

So if you lose your job, you can't use your €200 a week to have a few drinks, from the off licence even? Or the occasional joint, if that's what you prefer? It's maybe €10 for a few beers out of the €200, I don't know what a joint would cost tbh because I can't find a good dealer don't smoke it. Is that so bad really?

Ridiculous. People on the dole are mostly hoping for work and miserable that they have none, why make it worse because some spend the money exclusively on alcohol or drugs? Ridiculous idea.

And worse, what if they have a partner who does work who pays for their drinks? Are they booted from the dole then?

This is a major invasion of privacy, I call shenanigans.

biko

Not everyone on the dole are drug using scumbags. Besides if they want to spend their food money on hashish then be it.
We can't live their life for them.

bazmaiden

is the spelling mistake intentional??

DarkJager

Stupid idea. I worked, I paid taxes, lost my job and I'm now recieving welfare payments which I am entitled to. I don't work for the social welfare, so what I choose to do in my own time is my business and nobody elses.

My name is URL

I think it'd be beneficial in certain cases.. Say for anyone on the dole for 2 years or more. If they're found to be on drugs then they can be assisted in getting over their addiction, and thus back on the road to employment

Turtyturd

bazmaiden wrote: »

is the spelling mistake intentional??

Ententional?;)

Stercus Accidit

Ridiculous suggestion.

I gave up my job to return to college to finish my degree, came out third level qualified and there isn't a job there any more for me to even apply for.

There are thick sh*tes sitting comfy on secure jobs and there are plenty of intelligent people on the dole scraping by, OP's mate sounds like a thick sh*te, let him quit his job and give it to me if pissing in a cup is so tough.

Kasabian

Turtyturd wrote: »

Ententional?;)

intentional

stovelid

Same old punish-the-dole-drawers horseshit.

At least change the tune or look around and see the people who have really bled the country dry.

Turtyturd

My name is URL wrote: »

I think it'd be beneficial in certain cases.. Say for anyone on the dole for 2 years or more. If they're found to be on drugs then they can be assisted in getting over their addiction, and thus back on the road to employment

If anyone is found to have alcohol in their system will be sent to AA so they "can be assisted in getting over their addiction, and thus back on the road to employment"?

Kasabian

Lets euthanise anyone thats on the dole for longer than 2 years :pac:

Turtyturd

lonad wrote: »

intentional

The fact that sacrcasm doesn't translate onto the internet inrages me.

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Social welfare is there to provide for emergency situations where people find themselves out of work.

Engineers, Lawyers, Architects and nearly half a million people are out of work. These people CANNOT survive on 200 bucks a week.

Social Welfare is supposed to be there to provide emergency support for those who find themselves out of work. Unfortunately, for a long, long time it has become a career choice for many people who couldn't be ars*d working & is designed in such a way that it is actually an attractive choice for many people.

It wasn't designed for the situation we are in now - many of the professionals you mentioned above were hit by the collapse of the construction industry which started around 2 years ago. A lot of them no longer recieve benefits as they have run out & others, who were self employed, never recieved any in the first place.

Meanwhile, the scobies & layabouts still get their "entitlements", minus the Christmas "bonus". (The government didn't "think of the kids" there!)

Pay Related Social Insurance is one of the most inappropriately named things ever - it is pay related alright, but only related to what you are being paid.

As for drug testing? Jesus H. Why not just shoot them?

questioner

bring back butter vouchers!

Kasabian

Turtyturd wrote: »

The fact that sacrcasm doesn't translate onto the internet inrages me.

Try this :rolleyes:

Wudyaquit

lonad wrote: »

intentional

Yeah, stupid. It's spelt intentional. Duuuuhhhh.

Pauleta

Hmmm! As a man who frequents his local dole queue i think this could be a good idea. I myself in rare times endulges in the occasional marajuana cigarette and on special occasions possibly more but if i were to find i would be tested i would never use such substances, not that i ever buy for myself. I would be a user of the very casual variety and would test clean if i were tested right now.

On the negative side if drug addicts were to test possitive for drugs and had their dole cut then they could turn to crime and our justice system is not adequate enough to punish these people.

landsleaving

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Yeah, stupid. It's spelt intentional. Duuuuhhhh.

No, it's international.

starbelgrade

Pauleta wrote: »

Hmmm! As a man who frequents his local dole queue i think this could be a good idea. I myself in rare times endulges in the occasional marajuana cigarette and on special occasions possibly more but if i were to find i would be tested i would never use such substances, not that i ever buy for myself. I would be a user of the very casual variety and would test clean if i were tested right now.

On the negative side if drug addicts were to test possitive for drugs and had their dole cut then they could turn to crime and our justice system is not adequate enough to punish these people.

A man named Pauleta?

There's a song in there somewhere.

My name is URL

Turtyturd wrote: »

If anyone is found to have alcohol in their system will be sent to AA so they "can be assisted in getting over their addiction, and thus back on the road to employment"?

Alcohol is legal though, and the revenue it generates goes back to the state. I'm not saying I agree with testing everyone on the Dole, just in special cases. If someone tests positive for an illegal drug after 2 years on the Dole then it's fair to assume that they've spent a good proportion of taxpayers money on buying illegal substances and funding criminality

I'm not trying to generalise at all fwiw

Mr. Incognito

Social Welfare is supposed to be there to provide emergency support for those who find themselves out of work. Unfortunately, for a long, long time it has become a career choice for many people who couldn't be ars*d working & is designed in such a way that it is actually an attractive choice for many people.

It wasn't designed for the situation we are in now - many of the professionals you mentioned above were hit by the collapse of the construction industry which started around 2 years ago. A lot of them no longer recieve benefits as they have run out & others, who were self employed, never recieved any in the first place.

Meanwhile, the scobies & layabouts still get their "entitlements", minus the Christmas "bonus". (The government didn't "think of the kids" there!)

Pay Related Social Insurance is one of the most inappropriately named things ever - it is pay related alright, but only related to what you are being paid.

As for drug testing? Jesus H. Why not just shoot them?

You sir have no idea of what you are talking about.

I grew up on social welfare and it is no picnic. Career choice my ass. When I was a kid I got one pair of shoes a year and thought it was Christmas when I got them.

Education got me out of that cycle but those that are on the dole long term in the main are the most marginalised segment of society.

Please refer to my last post regarding stupid bigotry towards social welfare.

I suggest you live on 196 euro a week for 6 months. Then try raising kids on precious little more. There's a reason why long term unemployed have a higher drug use. They have more to escape from, for as well as being marginalised they are ostracised aswell.

Just because you hold views on a matter doesn't make you an expert on it. Unless you have first hand experience of the dole I suggest you refrain from spitting vitriol things you don't understand. You just look foolish.

Wudyaquit

landsleaving wrote: »

No, it's international.

Egg on my face.

The idea of the thread's stupid imo.
Massively costly, and what happens those who do smoke a joint and are tested positive? They lose their benefits and are out on the streets?
People are always going to take drugs, particularly if they've fook all else to do all day, so you'd be solving a non-existent problem and be replacing it with mass homelessness and increased crime

questioner

they shouldnt be allowed spend their money on shiny new tracksuits and hoodies either. plenty of good onion sacks going to waste IMHO.

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You sir have no idea of what you are talking about.

I grew up on social welfare and it is no picnic. Career choice my ass. When I was a kid I got one pair of shoes a year and thought it was Christmas when I got them.

Education got me out of that cycle but those that are on the dole long term in the main are the most marginalised segment of society.

Please refer to my last post regarding stupid bigotry towards social welfare.

I suggest you live on 196 euro a week for 6 months. Then try raising kids on precious little more. There's a reason why long term unemployed have a higher drug use. They have more to escape from, for as well as being marginalised they are ostracised aswell.

Just because you hold views on a matter doesn't make you an expert on it. Unless you have first hand experience of the dole I suggest you refrain from spitting vitriol things you don't understand. You just look foolish.

I know exactly what I'm talking about - I grew up in a poor, working class area, where a lot of people didn't want to work or educate themselves. They had choices & opportunities for work or education, but simply didn't want them.

Not everyone on the dole is a layabout - there are families who have little choice & are struggling. There are ex-professionals who have no choice & are struggling, but you seriously cannot deny that there are also a lot of people who are long term dolites who simply chose not to work, even when there were jobs.

PCPhoto

questioner wrote: »

they shouldnt be allowed spend their money on shiny new tracksuits and hoodies either. plenty of good onion sacks going to waste IMHO.

they dont spend their money on trackies and hoodies... they spend YOUR money on them !!!

in fairness - the dole system in this country is abused by a relatively small number of people - the question is does the government recognise there is flaws in the system or are they as blind as they were when the bankers were using "loopholes" in the law.

L1011

Drug testing isn't free. Simple piss-strips aren't all that reliable either.

Unworkable for 200 quid a week; absolutely unworkable if they reduce the payments as I'd expect them to in December.

Dudess

Must say, I don't personally know any "professional dole claimers" yet according to many on AH, you can't cross the street without bumping into at least one...

bluto63

I don't agree with drug tests at all, so no I don't agree with them for the dole

starbelgrade

Dudess wrote: »

Must say, I don't personally know any "professional dole claimers" yet according to many on AH, you can't cross the street without bumping into at least one...

You must try leaving the suburbs some day.

Mr. Incognito

I know exactly what I'm talking about - I grew up in a poor, working class area, where a lot of people didn't want to work or educate themselves. They had choices & opportunities for work or education, but simply didn't want them.

Not everyone on the dole is a layabout - there are families who have little choice & are struggling. There are ex-professionals who have no choice & are struggling, but you seriously cannot deny that there are also a lot of people who are long term dolites who simply chose not to work, even when there were jobs.

I actually have a tough time believe you. Anyone that grew up in a working class neighbourhood simply would not hold those views.

This is more of blaming the poor for being poor.

Without going into the finer points of socio economics it's a fact that the poorer you are the higher the barrier to higher education and professions. Dole is a vicious cycle. Long term unemployment can lead to depression, substance abuse and these are the kind of parents that these kids have to put up with so they are caught in a poverty trap. The only way to overcome these societal scourge is resources is deprived areas so that we can educate these kids in young offenders institutes. Did you know the Irish Government has promised to provide decent residential care for young offenders since 1997, was slapped on the wrist by the Supreme Court in 2002 for not having done so and then spent 4 million on legal fees to fight this order rather than open the schemes as promised.

Anyone who thinks that there is an easy out for these people has no first hand experience of it. None.

I don't blame you for your views but I pity your ignorance and the ignorance of others that leads to bigoted rants and threads like these.

rowanh

That is one of the most short sited ideas i have come across..

questioner

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You sir have no idea of what you are talking about.
When I was a kid I got one pair of shoes a year and thought it was Christmas when I got them.

frank McCourt how are ya?

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Education got me out of that cycle but those that are on the dolein the middle classes long term in the main are the most marginalised taken advantage of segment of society.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I suggest you live on 196 euro a week for 6 months. Then try raising kids on precious little more.

I suggest not having kids if you cant afford to provide them with a decent upbringing. Or have you muddied the concepts of entitlement and responsibility completely? Ever wonder why the lower classes have more kids than the upper classes? or why there's a higher incidence of unmarried mothers? is it becuase the state subsidise them?hmm..

couple of weeks back i saw a post on facebook

"Im pregnant again!Havent been to the doctors yet but im fairly sure"
"yep just been to the doctors, im pregnant, have to put a cork in it now!"
"wonder will the council give me a new house now"

course. they . will.

meanwhile in the highcourt... repossession orders are at the highest levels since records began.

And lets not get into this education lark either, BTEA 200 approx a week, free fees AND mainteannance! I am not entitled to a grant, my parents have to pay fees. Why BECAUSE THEY WORK FOR A LIVING!

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

There's a reason why long term unemployed have a higher drug use. They have more to escape from, for as well as being marginalised they are ostracised aswell.

Have you any idea what you are talking about? The primary creators of sustainable wealth in this country - self employed entrepeneurs - have no immediate entitlement to benefits. Have you any idea how many suicides are attributable to financial hardship amongst the middle classes? and yet you bleat about how hard the most supported segment of society have it? I am actually shaking with frustration writing this.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Just because you hold views on a matter doesn't make you an expert on it. Unless you have first hand experience of the dole I suggest you refrain from spitting vitriol things you don't understand. You just look foolish.

ditto.

conorhal

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Jebus H Christ.........

......Stupid bigoted people and a stupid bigoted idea.

Thanks from:
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Well, here's our first list of malcontents, now please form an orderly queue behind that curtian chaps....

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I actually have a tough time believe you. Anyone that grew up in a working class neighbourhood simply would not hold those views.

This is more of blaming the poor for being poor.

Anyone who thinks that there is an easy out for these people has no first hand experience of it. None.

I don't blame you for your views but I pity your ignorance and the ignorance of others that leads to bigoted rants and threads like these.

You have your opinions based on your experiences & I have mine. If you want to debate the matter in a civilised manner, I am open to doing so, but you question the fact that I grew up in a poor area, you question the fact that I have no experience of social welfare, accuse me of ignorance & bigotry and tell me that I know nothing?

The only answer I can give to that is on the same level as which you have addressed me personally - ie., GTFO.

CamperMan

most people I know on welfare go on at least 2 holidays a year, they can afford to run cars, go to the pub, buy new toys, feck off to New York christmas shopping..

Add it all up, dole cash, rent allowance, child benefits, + other perks, your better off on the dole than working!

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Jebus H Christ.

Why do people think of people on the dole as some sort of second class citizen.

Social welfare is there to provide for emergency situations where people find themselves out of work.

Engineers, Lawyers, Architects and nearly half a million people are out of work. These people CANNOT survive on 200 bucks a week.

Now you want to piss test them? How. Seriously. Are you going to have the state pay for 450,000 Urine tests periodically under the guise of saving money? It would cost far more than the 200 a week you're paying now

Stupid bigoted people and a stupid bigoted idea.

AnonoBoy

A urine test to get the dole?

What an assh*le!

So if I was unemployed and had a few cans of cheap beer the night before collecting my allowance I should be barred from getting it by this rationale.

Ridiculous.

The writer of that sh*te email works somewhere that requires it - and so he thinks everyone should have to do one? F*ck right off so he can. Does he think I should have to do one to be allowed perform my job or is it only people he deems unworthy that have to take one.

If I find out who wrote that crap he's going straight onto my 'kiss the back of me flaps' list.

Flippin' moron.

Mr. Incognito

I suggest not having kids if you cant afford to provide them with a decent upbringing. Or have you muddied the concepts of entitlement and responsibility completely? Ever wonder why the lower classes have more kids than the upper classes? or why there's a higher incidence of unmarried mothers? is it becuase the state subsidise them?hmm..

Actually there have been many many studies done on why poor people have more children. In short it's because more children increases the chance of one of them being sucessfull and able to support the parents coupled with low education in birth control. The literature is well documented. Maybe we could go down the route of India and round up the poor and castrate them. Would that make you feel better?

couple of weeks back i saw a post on facebook

"Im pregnant again!Havent been to the doctors yet but im fairly sure"
"yep just been to the doctors, im pregnant, have to put a cork in it now!"
"wonder will the council give me a new house now"

Link?

meanwhile in the highcourt... repossession orders are at the highest levels since records began.

And lets not get into this education lark either, BTEA 200 approx a week, free fees AND mainteannance! I am not entitled to a grant, my parents have to pay fees. Why BECAUSE THEY WORK FOR A LIVING!

Repossession is at it's highest because idiots bought houses they couldn't afford.

You're in college. Good for you. You think that this should be reserved for people whose parents work for a living? I was on a grant because my father was a disabled veteran. Should I not be entitled to be educated? Sorry poor kids. No education for you.

Have you any idea what you are talking about? The primary creators of sustainable wealth in this country - self employed entrepeneurs - have no immediate entitlement to benefits. Have you any idea how many suicides are attributable to financial hardship amongst the middle classes? and yet you bleat about how hard the most supported segment of society have it? I am actually shaking with frustration writing this.

Yes they do. They have tax breaks. I'm a tax solicitor for the record. Trust me, the higher your income the less tax you will pay. That's my job day in day out.

As for suicides amongst the middle classes? The odd failed developer topping himself because he is afraid to face his social circle is tragic but is no more tragic than the kids dying on heroin in the margins of society.

You have your opinions based on your experiences & I have mine. If you want to debate the matter in a civilised manner, I am open to doing so, but you question the fact that I grew up in a poor area, you question the fact that I have no experience of social welfare, accuse me of ignorance & bigotry and tell me that I know nothing?

The only answer I can give to that is on the same level as which you have addressed me personally - ie., GTFO.

I said I have a hard time believing that you grew up in a working class area when you think that for most of these people it is an active choice to be unemployed. They do exist sure, but they are not a majority in any way.

Mr. Incognito

most people I know on welfare go on at least 2 holidays a year, they can afford to run cars, go to the pub, buy new toys, feck off to New York christmas shopping..

Add it all up, dole cash, rent allowance, child benefits, + other perks, your better off on the dole than working!

Not this old chestnut. That is bollox. I could do the math for you but it's easier to link: Remember Golf playing Dad in the Indo.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055540985

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I said I have a hard time believing that you grew up in a working class area when you think that for most of these people it is an active choice to be unemployed. They do exist sure, but they are not a majority in any way.

I never said that they were in the majority - most of my neighbours worked if they had jobs, some worked when they could get the work & a lot of the kids in the area followed suit & went into employment / trades / education when they finished school.

Everyone had the same opportunities - there are grants for education & summer jobs to pay the shortfall. Kids of working class families don't have it as easy as those of middle class families, but they do have choices.

My point is, was, that there is no denying that some simply choose to opt out. And for years the SW has been supporting them with taxpayers money. Then, when the taxpayer finds himself unemployed, he finds that they are not entitled to the same benefits as those who have never done a days work in their lives.

The Social Welfare system does not work for them & this is highly unjust.

helios12

Why not piss-test politicians ?

The majority seem to have a lack of connection with reality which could be construed as a prime indicator of substance abuse.

Do you want want potheads running YOUR country??

starbelgrade

helios12 wrote: »

Why not piss-test politicians ?

The majority seem to have a lack of connection with reality which could be construed as a prime indicator of substance abuse.

Do you want want potheads running YOUR country??

Might make a pleasant change.