Commmunions/Confirmations

weiland79

What the hell is up with this country and it's obsession with Communions and Confirmations. I work in a business that sells items for these celebrations and people generally start coming in around January for items.
Typical conversation. " do ya do da Communion/Confirmation,Rosette/Prayer book/Rosary beads"
"Yes we do"
To child. " Now which one of those do you like, It's your big day so you get to pick"
"Eh i like dat one"
"Ah no wha about dat one, dat ones much nicer"
"Eh no i like da udder wan"
"Ah no i think dat wan would be much nicer"
"But you said i could picket"
By which stage the friendly tone generally changes
"Ah for fooks sake,your not havin dat fookin one,I'm tellin ya which one your gettin ands dats the fookin end of it"
Bearing in mind Communion age is usually between the ages of 7 and 9 you can't help but feel sorry for the little ones.
It just doesn't feel very Christian to me. It's all just a big show put on for the neighbours and quite frankly turns my stomach.I mean if half of the people i see everyday actually take their kids to celebrate Mass regularly I'd be very ' Fookin ' surprised.

orourkeda

Its called being a catholic mother

petes

I cringe when I see pictures of me on the day of my Communion. I did make seven pound however!

Kiera

What's the going rate for these things now-a-days?

orourkeda

Insurgent wrote: »

I cringe when I see pictures of me on the day of my Communion. I did make seven pound however!

Do you still have it?

Cookie_Monster

if I ever have kids these are two thing they'll never be doing

orourkeda

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if I ever have kids these are two thing they'll never be doing

Converted to Islam have we?

weiland79

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if I ever have kids these are two thing they'll never be doing

I'm actually in battle with my partner over this at the moment as i said it all turns my stomach,but she insists our little one(4) is going to do it.It's going to be a long 4 years.:mad:

syklops

My cousin(he is about 12 years younger than me) got over 1000 euro :eek: when he did his communion. His parents run a bar, and the amount of fellas he didnt even know giving him 20 and fifty euros was shocking.

I remember when i was doing it, it was the day after and a few of us were waiting to be picked up from school. One of the parents said to one of the fellas standing next to me and said "So johnnie, what did you do yesterday?" to which he responded "I got a hundred pound and took the family to the pub for lunch".

petes

orourkeda wrote: »

Do you still have it?

No I drank it.

Motley Crue

OP I agree. These days I see communion as being a chance to give children money for dressing up, and that's basically it, because few of them take their vows seriously. And of course, its not just good enough giving a child a few pounds, because each relation needs to give the child more and more. I remember being disappointed that three years after I made my communion my brother got £200 more then me from what seemed like the same amount of relatives. It just got worse as the years went on and more money was shoved into everyone's hands.

Pherekydes

I heard about a couple who had a sit down meal for 100 for their little dear's confirmation. :eek: I'm sure she was an only child. They should have had a few more. That would cure them of the need to spend half the national debt on a confirmation dinner for one child.

syklops

Pherekydes wrote: »

I heard about a couple who had a sit down meal for 100 for their little dear's confirmation. :eek: I'm sure she was an only child. They should have had a few more. That would cure them of the need to spend half the national debt on a confirmation dinner for one child.

Think of the tax revenue from it. VAT on the food, Duty on the wine, Income tax from the waiters. A few more like that and we wouldn't be long getting rid of the debt.

alwaysadub

My nephew is making his communion this year, and i overheard him talking to his cousin, who made his last year.
So i asked him what making him communion was all about.
"Money" he says.
"no" says the other one who's already made his "It's about God".
But before i even had a chance to think about how he'd realised it wasn't all about making cash he added "AND money"

Couldn't really argue cos that's pretty much what it is all about these days!

bnt

weiland79 wrote: »

It just doesn't feel very Christian to me. It's all just a big show put on for the neighbours and quite frankly turns my stomach.I mean if half of the people i see everyday actually take their kids to celebrate Mass regularly I'd be very ' Fookin ' surprised.

If it doesn't seem "Christian", is that surprising, considering that Christianity is a mish-mash of all sorts of Pagan ideas? For example, this "eating and drinking" communion has its origins in Mithraism. Nothing about Christianity is original, not even the name.

weiland79

We have all heard the stories, sit down meals,limosines,fake tans,diamond earrings. At what point do you step back say enough is enough.
I was talking to a couple the other day and they told me that their parish priest was actually refusing to allow children to make their Communion/Confimation in his church if he had never seen them in church. Apparently they had to go to a neighbouring parish.
Proper order i say!

syklops

weiland79 wrote: »

We have all heard the stories, sit down meals,limosines,fake tans,diamond earrings. At what point do you step back say enough is enough.
I was talking to a couple the other day and they told me that their parish priest was actually refusing to allow children to make their Communion/Confimation in his church if he had never seen them in church. Apparently they had to go to a neighbouring parish.
Proper order i say!

The way things are in the catholic church at the moment I dont think he is in a position to be turning down people who want to attend his church.

weiland79

syklops wrote: »

The way things are in the catholic church at the moment I dont think he is in a position to be turning down people who want to attend his church.

But that was my point,these people don't nor have they ever attended,yet they feel that they must have their child Confirmed.

syklops

But that was my point,these people don't nor have they ever attended,yet they feel that they must have their child Confirmed.

To be honest its not really the parents. The majority of primary schools are catholic schools, and its the school that organizes most of it, at least it was in my day. You could opt out, but that really meant excluding the child from a range of school activities.

Until education is taken away from men in dresses it will continue.

landsleaving

Syklops, did you just reply to yourself? Split personality?

BOO! Ninja edits make me look silly.

It's pretty unfair on the kids who don't do any of this stuff in school that they get marginalised. They should be educated, not indoctrinated. If parents want this for their kids it should be a private affair with nothing to do with the school. But not many would do it then.

suitseir

Yea, maybe the children should picket and then we would be rid of all this nonsense!:D

toiletduck

Does anyone know if they go over the top about it like Ireland does, in other Catholic majority countries?

Imhof Tank

weiland79 wrote: »

What the hell is up with this country and it's obsession with Communions and Confirmations. I work in a business that sells items for these celebrations and people generally start coming in around January for items.
Typical conversation. " do ya do da Communion/Confirmation,Rosette/Prayer book/Rosary beads"
"Yes we do"
To child. " Now which one of those do you like, It's your big day so you get to pick"
"Eh i like dat one"
"Ah no wha about dat one, dat ones much nicer"
"Eh no i like da udder wan"
"Ah no i think dat wan would be much nicer"
"But you said i could picket"
By which stage the friendly tone generally changes
"Ah for fooks sake,your not havin dat fookin one,I'm tellin ya which one your gettin ands dats the fookin end of it"
Bearing in mind Communion age is usually between the ages of 7 and 9 you can't help but feel sorry for the little ones.
It just doesn't feel very Christian to me. It's all just a big show put on for the neighbours and quite frankly turns my stomach.I mean if half of the people i see everyday actually take their kids to celebrate Mass regularly I'd be very ' Fookin ' surprised.

OP that's some classy clientelle you have there in your shop.

Seriously though is it the hypocracy of the parent in your scenario that bothers you, or do you have a problem with the ritual of communion/ confirmation itself?

If they came into your place of busines, the kid picked out the prayer book, the mother said grand and paid up and none of the fuss etc - would that still turn your stomach? Id say it would alright.

Cookie_Monster

orourkeda wrote: »

Converted to Islam have we?

AAALLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, I just live in the real world not that silly people believing in god one.

Dravokivich

Surely this is something you could bring up in 1 of these forums?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=526

Plenty of people there may be able to give you a more indepth insight into the madness generated by these Sacraments...

podgemonster

syklops wrote: »

To be honest its not really the parents. The majority of primary schools are catholic schools, and its the school that organizes most of it, at least it was in my day. You could opt out, but that really meant excluding the child from a range of school activities.

Until education is taken away from men in dresses it will continue.

Great point here. The prodestant or non-religious classmates that i had in Primary and Secondary school were treated like outcasts. Sent to the back of the room to read the Bible while we sat and memorized answers to the question in a Cathechism book.
Not taken on schools retreats, had no part singing in the choir or school mass, yes maybe they mightn't have wanted too but this was never asked.
The whole communion and confirm event bonds the other kids through all the reherseals and the big day will effectivly notifiy others that these kids were different from us.

Plus I'm from a rural place and the local schools were all Catholic.
Load a bollix!

weiland79

Imhof Tank wrote: »

OP that's some classy clientelle you have there in your shop.
Seriously though is it the hypocracy of the parent in your scenario that bothers you, or do you have a problem with the ritual of communion/ confirmation itself?

QUOTE]

It is of course the hypocracy of the parents involved that gets under my skin. To dress your child up like Barbie or Ken for a day,parade them around in front of the neighbours and all the while all the kids are thinking about is how much is in the next envelope. This of course is not the fault of the children, but the parents.
The children could be going to their Barmitzfah and apparently wouldn't know the differnce

Ri_Nollaig

podgemonster wrote: »

Great point here. The prodestant or non-religious classmates that i had in Primary and Secondary school were treated like outcasts. Sent to the back of the room to read the Bible while we sat and memorized answers to the question in a Cathechism book.
Not taken on schools retreats, had no part singing in the choir or school mass, yes maybe they mightn't have wanted too but this was never asked.
The whole communion and confirm event bonds the other kids through all the reherseals and the big day will effectivly notifiy others that these kids were different from us.

Plus I'm from a rural place and the local schools were all Catholic.
Load a bollix!

There is a very simple solution of all of this.
Get rid of all religion from schools. "Religion class" itself should only be covered as a history of religion and their roles today and nothing more.

If parents still want their children to get communion or confirmation then it should only be done privately. Infact religion should only ever be a private matter and nothing more.

blow69

Bored housewives all trying to outdo eachother.

It's all a bit sad really.

I would never (if I have one, lets hope not for a long time) subject my child and myself to that kind of humiliation.

Agricola

weiland79 wrote: »

It just doesn't feel very Christian to me. It's all just a big show put on for the neighbours and quite frankly turns my stomach.I mean if half of the people i see everyday actually take their kids to celebrate Mass regularly I'd be very ' Fookin ' surprised.

Isnt that the very core of Irishness itself! From the huge house, the posh car(s), the foreign holiday(s), the big wedding, the lavish honeymoon..... etc etc
Religion just gives us another outlet to blow our own trumpet. Why the hell else is the country in the complete shít that its in.

topper75

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if I ever have kids these are two thing they'll never be doing

If I ever have kids, I'll ask them not to tease your kids or wave wads of notes in front of them. But I can't promise anything.

Imhof Tank

weiland79 wrote: »

Imhof Tank wrote: »

OP that's some classy clientelle you have there in your shop.
Seriously though is it the hypocracy of the parent in your scenario that bothers you, or do you have a problem with the ritual of communion/ confirmation itself?

QUOTE]

It is of course the hypocracy of the parents involved that gets under my skin. To dress your child up like Barbie or Ken for a day,parade them around in front of the neighbours and all the while all the kids are thinking about is how much is in the next envelope. This of course is not the fault of the children, but the parents.
The children could be going to their Barmitzfah and apparently wouldn't know the differnce

There must be the occassional sincere parent who comes into your shop to pick out a set of rosary beads? They couldnt all be fookin this and fookin that and gimme a new fookin bible .......

The devout/ sincere type arent being hypocritical so I presume you are ok with them, yeah?

prinz

weiland79 wrote: »

It just doesn't feel very Christian to me. It's all just a big show put on for the neighbours and quite frankly turns my stomach.I mean if half of the people i see everyday actually take their kids to celebrate Mass regularly I'd be very ' Fookin ' surprised.

It's nothing to do with Christianity.

A lot of schools and parishes now are making school uniforms obligatory for communions and confirmations. That's how it was when I made mine. Of course in my local parish when the PP and the school announced this plan it was the mammies and daddies kicking up a fuss that little johnny and mary should be allowed wear whatever they want...yadda yadda yadda...

It's commercialism and one-up-manship, plain and simple.

weiland79

Imhof Tank wrote: »

weiland79 wrote: »

There must be the occassional sincere parent who comes into your shop to pick out a set of rosary beads? They couldnt all be fookin this and fookin that and gimme a new fookin bible .......

The devout/ sincere type arent being hypocritical so I presume you are ok with them, yeah?

Of course there are but they don't get up my nose.:D

PeterIanStaker

Religion is part of the reason the country's in sh!t.

If I ever have any sprogs they will be brought up free of religion, and if they want to beleive in something when they're old enough to make up their own minds, I wont stop them. But they will not be "born into" it because of the older generation that has been terrified into obedience by the RCC.

topper75

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Religion is part of the reason the country's in sh!t.

If I ever have any sprogs they will be brought up free of religion, and if they want to beleive in something when they're old enough to make up their own minds, I wont stop them. But they will not be "born into" it because of the older generation that has been terrified into obedience by the RCC.

They may want to speak French? But oh no! - you'll go imposing your English language on them with no regard whatsoever for their freewill. Why not allow them to choose what language to speak when they are old enough to make up their own minds?

Be careful out there friend. Your sprogs may rebel against your college liberal stance when they get older, and end up in a vocation.:D

kpbdublin

The crazy thing is this school nonsense goes on even in so-called "Educate Together'' schools.

I know of kids who are in one of these schools. The Catholics hold a confirmation class off site during school hours, and all the children of Catholic parents are taken out of class, leaving the others marginalised.

Only the Catholic church would be allowed to grab school hours in this way. Children of protestants, atheists, Jedi believers etc. would not be allowed to take their kids out for indoctrination lessons.

prinz

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If I ever have any sprogs they will be brought up free of religion, and if they want to beleive in something when they're old enough to make up their own minds, I wont stop them. But they will not be "born into" it because of the older generation that has been terrified into obedience by the RCC.

In other words you will force them into having a childhood based upon what you want them to believe/not believe. Are you really that different - er no. I think you'll find the many atheists who were brought up with religion in their lives one way or another who managed not to be 'terrified into obedience.' Of course you are also confusing Roman Catholicism with religion in general.

stovelid

weiland79 wrote: »

What the hell is up with this country and it's obsession with Communions and Confirmations. I work in a business that sells items for these celebrations and people generally start coming in around January for items.
Typical conversation. " do ya do da Communion/Confirmation,Rosette/Prayer book/Rosary beads"
"Yes we do"
To child. " Now which one of those do you like, It's your big day so you get to pick"
"Eh i like dat one"
"Ah no wha about dat one, dat ones much nicer"
"Eh no i like da udder wan"
"Ah no i think dat wan would be much nicer"
"But you said i could picket"
By which stage the friendly tone generally changes
"Ah for fooks sake,your not havin dat fookin one,I'm tellin ya which one your gettin ands dats the fookin end of it"
Bearing in mind Communion age is usually between the ages of 7 and 9 you can't help but feel sorry for the little ones.
It just doesn't feel very Christian to me. It's all just a big show put on for the neighbours and quite frankly turns my stomach.I mean if half of the people i see everyday actually take their kids to celebrate Mass regularly I'd be very ' Fookin ' surprised.

Is being able to speak in shitty sub-Roddy Doyle dialogue a prerequisite for taking Catholic sacraments these days?

prinz

kpbdublin wrote: »

Only the Catholic church would be allowed to grab school hours in this way. Children of protestants, atheists, Jedi believers etc. would not be allowed to take their kids out for indoctrination lessons.

Are you admitting that children of atheists are indoctrinated by their parents?

Biggins

alwaysadub wrote: »

My nephew is making his communion this year, and i overheard him talking to his cousin, who made his last year.
So i asked him what making him communion was all about.
"Money" he says.
"no" says the other one who's already made his "It's about God".
But before i even had a chance to think about how he'd realised it wasn't all about making cash he added "AND money"

Couldn't really argue cos that's pretty much what it is all about these days!

Yep, money for the church, money for the shops, money for the other kids and money for your own.

Isn't it great (not)!

bronte

I was chatting to a bouncer while having a cig one evening and he was telling me about his little lass who was making her confirmation.
He said he'd spent 500 euro on her outfit in Brown Thomas. :eek:
She'd had fake tan, fake nails, make up applied, hair done, the works.
Think they even hired a limo for her

It was mental.. It's become something completely different these days..a competition almost.

Ri_Nollaig

topper75 wrote: »

They may want to speak French? But oh no! - you'll go imposing your English language on them with no regard whatsoever for their freewill. Why not allow them to choose what language to speak when they are old enough to make up their own minds?

Be careful out there friend. Your sprogs may rebel against your college liberal stance when they get older, and end up in a vocation.:D

What?

Where you trying to compare the forcing of religion on children to them learning a language? That doesn't even make sense!

topper75 wrote: »

If I ever have kids, I'll ask them not to tease your kids or wave wads of notes in front of them. But I can't promise anything.

And how interested do you think your kids would be if there was no money involved? So am I to take away from this that Communion/Confirmation is a nice way to bribe children who don't fully understand what they doing, into believe in religion? Afterall I doubt it would be very difficult to get them to worship el diablo if they thought they would get a few euro from it.

Nevyn

toiletduck wrote: »

Does anyone know if they go over the top about it like Ireland does, in other Catholic majority countries?

They don't.

prinz

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

And how interested do you think your kids would be if there was no money involved? So am I to take away from this that Communion/Confirmation is a nice way to bribe children who don't fully understand what they doing, into believe in religion?

Who involves the money? The Church aren't bribing anyone to take part with money? If you don't agree with the monetary aspect then refuse to give money to friends, relatives etc. Money =/= communion, confirmation.

Thaedydal wrote: »

They don't.

+1.

Also important to remember that in a lot of other countries communion and confirmation are usually for older people. In Germany for example confirmation would most likely involved people between 16 - 19 years of age and one must approach the Church, not the other way around, and communion would be for 11 - 13 year olds IIRC on a request basis.

I don't know how, when, or why the RCC in Ireland screwed with this much better system IMO.

brummytom

toiletduck wrote: »

Does anyone know if they go over the top about it like Ireland does, in other Catholic majority countries?

I know we're a Protestant country officially (though we're Catholic majority now, I think) but it's a big deal here too. We didn't do anything fancy for mine, I got some money, a crucifix, mass book and we went out for a meal

Cookie_Monster

topper75 wrote: »

If I ever have kids, I'll ask them not to tease your kids or wave wads of notes in front of them. But I can't promise anything.

I would hope that you 'd teach you children about religious differences and tolerance of other religions rather than just asked them not to laugh because someone else's beliefs require them to do different things...

Ri_Nollaig

prinz wrote: »

Who involves the money? The Church aren't bribing anyone to take part with money? If you don't agree with the monetary aspect then refuse to give money to friends, relatives etc. Money =/= communion, confirmation.

I don't know where the culture of money giving comes from but its there now and its expected. While the priests are hardly gonna say "give money" they know full well people will; which encourages the children to want to take part.
My point is, they would probably just has happily take part in a satanic cult and wouldn't care less (if they got a few hundred euro from it). So is it really much different then just bribing?

prinz

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

I don't know where the culture of money giving comes from but its there now and its expected.

So it has nothing to do with religion, the Catholic Church or the sacraments.

owenc

orourkeda wrote: »

Its called being a catholic mother

its called being a mother!:rolleyes:

owenc

syklops wrote: »

To be honest its not really the parents. The majority of primary schools are catholic schools, and its the school that organizes most of it, at least it was in my day. You could opt out, but that really meant excluding the child from a range of school activities.

Until education is taken away from men in dresses it will continue.

Yes my next door neighbour goes to a catholic school and they MADE him do his confirmation! now how selfish is that! Shows how republican some of the catholic schools are getting here. Im in a re class with a few bitter catholic students from a catholic school and they were saying that there priest was telling them who to vote for... and all this other stuff like asking the teacher if the simpsons were protestants what a load of crap.