Noah's Ark Found - well no actually

Galvasean

Wasn't sure whether to post this in Religious Humour or Generally Strange. Mods, feel free to move as appropriate.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100428-noahs-ark-found-in-turkey-science-religion-culture/

Sample quote:

"I don't know of any expedition that ever went looking for the ark and didn't find it," said Paul Zimansky, an archaeologist specializing in the Middle East at Stony Brook University in New York State

GLaDOS

I love his views on carbon dating. Happy to use it when it backs up his claim, but then explains it away when it's used as evidence contrary to his beliefs.

Darlughda

Just like Noah's Ark was discovered at the Hill of Tara at the end of the last century.

Zillah

What's that you say, you've created a device that can provide the world with free energy?

Flamed Diving

Christians once again displaying a distinct lack of faith in the Bible.

liamw

"I don't know of any expedition that ever went looking for the ark and didn't find it," said Paul Zimansky, an archaeologist specializing in the Middle East at Stony Brook University in New York State.

kiffer

Withing the context of the myth itself:
I don't think the Ark would have servived for long after the flood...
It would have been the only source of good wood for years after the flood... Noah and co.
would not have stayed on the top of the mountain after the flood waters magically vanished so would have moved down hill.
... On the other hand ...
After the flood when Noah makes a vinyard and gets sloshed on the wine he's made and his son "sees" him passed out drunk naked... It's in a tent... So they're maybe not using the wood to build houses...

Anyway... This can't be the Ark... The Ark ended up on top of a mountain. This is only part way up a mountain... If they'd run aground there then there would have been no need to send out those birds...

Galvasean

Maybe it fell down later?

kiffer

yeah... A big wooden box rolls down a mountain and doesn't get broken up. Then doesn't get used for building suplies or fire wood while the forrests are somehow regrowning? Now who's talking crazy.
And what about the Termites?

No, in fact the best proof for the flood myth is the fact there is no boat on top of any mountains... Shows the logical nature of the story...

That and drowning babies... Evil babies.

sensibleken

sure it could be anybodys ark

kiffer

reminds me of what was said to deal with the suggestion that the biblical flood was just a retelling of the flood story from the epic of gilgamesh...
"Don't be silly, the ark in that story is a square/cube box not a rectangular cuboid shapped box... So it would be a silly shape for a boat... No clearly the epic of gilgamesh copied our story but got the fine details wrong"

hiorta

There was no Ark or flood.
Earth's water system is a sealed unit and cannot be added to or reduced.
The wonders of evaporation and distillation ensure we have clean water- but it is the same water that dinosaurs peed and paddled in.

If the Earth was flooded as was biblically claimed, it would still be flooded - there is nowhere for the surplus water to go to, except via space.

MoodeRator

Is it not possible that the Bilical Flood was just a tlae of the time when the natural dame of the Gibralter straights collapsed and Mediterranean was flooded?

darjeeling

According to this blog post, it was a hoax (no, really?). The blog says that old wooden beams from around the Black Sea were hauled up to Mount Ararat and put into a cave where they were then 'discovered' the following year.

iUseVi

darjeeling wrote: »

According to this blog post, it was a hoax (no, really?). The blog says that old wooden beams from around the Black Sea were hauled up to Mount Ararat and put into a cave where they were then 'discovered' the following year.

I'm so surprised.

iUseVi

What I don't get about these people is that yeah, even if they found a 5000 year old boat, the whole Noah's ark thing is so entirely ridiculous.

As hiorta said about the water cycle, and come on, collecting and fitting ALL the world's animals in a boat. It's almost worse than creationism. I mean come on, I couldn't even fit all the animals in my model ark I had as a child, and that only had common zoo animals.

Oh geology and biology, you bad bad children, look what you have done.







Oh and physics, chemistry, astronomy, mathematics.......

Zillah

hiorta wrote: »

There was no Ark or flood.
Earth's water system is a sealed unit and cannot be added to or reduced.
The wonders of evaporation and distillation ensure we have clean water- but it is the same water that dinosaurs peed and paddled in.

If the Earth was flooded as was biblically claimed, it would still be flooded - there is nowhere for the surplus water to go to, except via space.

How often we forget that these people have magic on their side.


That aside, I wonder if anyone has done studies on just how large the ark would need to be to fit two of every creature on the earth, including food supplies etc.

iUseVi

Zillah wrote: »

How often we forget that these people have magic on their side.


That aside, I wonder if anyone has done studies on just how large the ark would need to be to fit two of every creature on the earth, including food supplies etc.

If anyone does this, while they are at it can they please calculate how long it would take one family to collect all these animals from all over the world. I mean they would have had to build boats just to collect them. To the America's, and to Australia for the Kangaroos etc. Gosh they were great explorers eh.

Zillah

Odd that genetic analysis doesn't reveal an immense bottle neck across all life on the planet from the time of the flood too.

MoodeRator wrote: »

Is it not possible that the Bilical Flood was just a tlae of the time when the natural dame of the Gibralter straights collapsed and Mediterranean was flooded?

I've never heard anything about the Mediterranean. Are you thinking of the Black Sea Deluge Theory by any chance?

sean_84

Zillah wrote: »

I've never heard anything about the Mediterranean.

Have a look at this:
http://www.physorg.com/news179598629.html

I know some of the guys in the bible lived awfully long, but I don't think they were around 5.33 million years ago...

hiorta

Zillah wrote: »

I wonder if anyone has done studies on just how large the ark would need to be to fit two of every creature on the earth, including food supplies etc.

Zillah, it was seven of each, and with bedding, fodder, fresh water and the means of keeping them all apart, yet providing sufficient exercise.....etc.
Getting 14 polar bears onto a raft defies every circus act in the book.
In addition, most of todays world was unknown then, as was the Arctic, Antarctic, the Americas... etc.
Plus, the duration of 'flood' was unknown. Not bad for a few farmers circumnavigating the known and unknown worlds gathering beasties unknown to them - poisonous snakes and spiders, then providing the exact conditions for each species.
Where was the woodworm kept?
But you see the point.

iUseVi

It was seven of "clean" animals and two of others (whatever that means). But beside the point though, even two of each is beyond ridiculous.

Fallen Buckshot

The bible was written by men and at that time there was no knowledge of americas antartica etc so if the land flooded around you you might as well think the whole world flooded ..so its possible that he only collected local animals..ffs the world was believed to be flat until several hundred years ago.

Zillah

The premise is that God used his magic powers to flood the planet. Attacking the internal consistency of the story is a little pointless.

hiorta

Some additional info:

My source, T.W.Doane's "Bible Myths And Their Parallels In Other Religions" has the following to say about the Deluge:

The legend of the Deluge becams known to the Jews via Chaldean sources. Egyptian history had gone on uninterrupted for ten thousand years B.C. And it is known as absolute fact that the land of Egypt was never visited by anythin other than its annual beneficient overflow of the Nile. The Egyptian Bible, which is by far the oldest of all holy books, knew nothing of the Deluge. The Pharoah Koufou-Cheops was building his pyramid, accoeding to Egyptian chronicle, when, according to the Jews, the entire planet was under he waters of a universal Deluge. Anumber of other nations of antiquity have no record of a Flood.


and (a bit tongue in cheek):

"Ye woodsten arke was 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits in size" (Gen. 6:15).
A cubit is approximately 18 inches which is 1.5 ft. It is also suggested Noah used the Egyptian cubit, which is 22 inches (to render ye woodsten arke even bigger perhaps), but inflates a problem we'll get to in a moment.

So, let's go with the generally excepted 18 inches. Ye woodsten arke then, would have been 450 ft long, 75 wide, and 45 tall and the total cubic volume would have been 1,518,750 cubic ft.

When we do a bit of of conversion in metres, it's 137.16 by 22.86 by 13.716 metres. For ease of calculation, let's call it 140 x 23 x 14. This give us 45.080e+3 cubic metres.

One cubic metre of pure water equals one metric tonne. Salt water is a bit more dense. Let's add another thousand tonnes. Ye woodsten arke then, being generous, displaces 46,000 tonnes or so.

So far for the metres. Back to feet.

Those who know something about ship-building will spot a certain 'minor' problem with the above figures and apparently no creationist has ever noticed it. In part, perhaps, if they are corrected, things get worse, for ye woodsten arke that is.


HMS Victoria, the last full-rigged 1st rate ship of the ERN line to serve as flag of the Channel Fleet was 340 ft long, 250 ft long on the gundeck, with a displacement of about 10,470 tonnes. - http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_victoria.htm

She had a steel frame because the ERN had found that building wooden ships much bigger than 225 ft long was not a good idea. They tended to straddle or hog; that is, they tended to bend. Their bows and sterns would stick up out of the water at an angle (that's straddling) or to bend the other way; the bows and sterns were supported by waves but the midships sections would be out of the water or at least not as well supported (that's hogging).

Either way, their keels tended to crack under the strain. Even with steel frames, wooden ships bigger than 250 ft long tend to hog or straddle. The longest wooden ships build were about 300 ft, and those required reinforcement with iron straps and leaked so badly they had to be pumped constantly.

That's why the 18 inches cubit is used here and not the 22 inches Egyptian cubit because that would render ye woodsten arke about 91.5 ft wide, 55 ft high, and ... 550 ft long.

The Egyptian connection is quite interesting here. About the same time the flood is said to have happened, it is also said the pyramid of Cheops was being build. If so, we've made a brand new discovery; the Egyptians, back then, were aquanauts.

So, if we go with the 18 inches cubit, ye woodsten arke then, is the size of about 1 and a half times that of HMS Victoria.

To give you an idea, here's a few pics of HMS Victoria, 340 ft long, including people, for perspective.







When we get to the Noah crew and the live stock ... the amount of animals, the necessary room to exercise to avoid atrophy which would otherwise cause the animals to die, the amount of specific nourishment needed for each species, how to keep that food fresh, where to store it, the inevitable excrement and only a crew of 8 to feed the animals and clean up after them, the heat the animals would produce, and only one small window for ventilation, the amount of fresh water needed, how to keep that fresh, where and how to store it, and so on and so forth, the list is endless, all on board of ye woodsten arke, for the duration of about a year ... it poses problems so huge, so impossible to solve, in a logical and realistic manner that is, that even the most brilliant creationist would be extremely hard pressed to save the day.

We could point out dozens of other problems with ye woodsten ark/ye floode, but let's address just a few:

- The waters to submerge the earth must have come from outwith the earth and had to be disposed of likewise otherwise the earth would remain submerged. What is the explanation for this set of phenomena?

- How did mankind as we know it today came to pass, again, out of 8 people from the same descent?

- Tapeworm, Leprosy, Cancer, Smallpox, Chickenpox, Influenza, Shingles, Herpes, Polio, Rabies, Ebola, Hanta, Marburg, Sars, H1N1, Monkeypox, AIDS and soforth are living creatures too. If they were not on the ark, they died too. They exist. Thus they survived. They were therefore on the ark.

Parasites require a living host to survive. So, which one of the Noah crew carried herpes, which hookworm, which cancer, which AIDS and all the others diseases, especially Ebola rendering its carrier deceased within days?

- Everything that was not on the ark perished. (7:4 - 7:21-23)
This means God had to re-create every life form not on the ark (and thus did not survive the flood). How come Genesis doesn't seem to mention the re-creation of all that perished? And if God could have and did re-create every life form that did not survive the flood, doesn't that RRR (render rather redundant) the whole ark thing anyway?

Galvasean

iUseVi wrote: »

If anyone does this, while they are at it can they please calculate how long it would take one family to collect all these animals from all over the world. I mean they would have had to build boats just to collect them. To the America's, and to Australia for the Kangaroos etc. Gosh they were great explorers eh.

No no no no no!!!!!! The animals................ were drawn to Noah's Ark, most likely compelled by God's will. Rapid evolution speciation within KINDS occured in the few thousand YEARS after the flood. Things like POLAR bears came from............... the basic bear KIND. ...................
There were also land bridges after the flood THAT connected Europe to Australia (which have no eroded AWAY due to weathering) which ANIMALS such as the kangaroo used to walk to Australia, having not LIVED there before.......

..........................Oh, and there were also dinosaurs on the Ark, but tehy died out after the FLOOD. :pac::pac::eek::(:D

iUseVi

Zillah wrote: »

The premise is that God used his magic powers to flood the planet. Attacking the internal consistency of the story is a little pointless.

LOL of course you are right but in my silly way I like to think that some people might see the silliness if it is pointed out to them.

iUseVi

Galvasean wrote: »

No no no no no!!!!!! The animals................ were drawn to Noah's Ark, most likely compelled by God's will. Rapid evolution speciation within KINDS occured in the few thousand YEARS after the flood. Things like POLAR bears came from............... the basic bear KIND. ...................
There were also land bridges after the flood THAT connected Europe to Australia (which have no eroded AWAY due to weathering) which ANIMALS such as the kangaroo used to walk to Australia, having not LIVED there before.......

..........................Oh, and there were also dinosaurs on the Ark, but tehy died out after the FLOOD. :pac::pac::eek::(:D

Ahhh. Magical land bridges. Of course. And the evidence is magically missing. It all makes sense now.

...........yes :):rolleyes: hypnotoad the evidence is clear.............:rolleyes::p;):D

.....kangaroos used to live all over......fossils destroyed by flood..........
......all fossils created by flood................
..rainbows....:mad::rolleyes::o water drained into underground caverns.........now it is frozen as ice caps



EDIT: got this error message: "You have included 19 images in your message. You are limited to using 15 images so please go back and correct the problem and then continue again. " Too many smilies I think.

Galvasean

iUseVi wrote: »

EDIT: got this error message: "You have included 19 images in your message. You are limited to using 15 images so please go back and correct the problem and then continue again. " Too many smilies I think.

Yeah, makes quoting people and repying with the aid of diagrams tricky.

kiffer

dear internets!

I have been thinking about this and have come to a worrying question...
Where are all the sea otters?

Bear with me for a moment... During the flood all life on earth other than that which was on the ark or that could survive in the water died...
Sea otters can spend long periods of time in the water eating clams off their tummys.
They may not have been able to sleep in the water but they are small enough to make use of impromptue rafts of flotsam and other wreckage unlike the larger seals which would have needed to be on the ark...
So after the flood there would have been sea otters all over the place... But nothing to control their numbers. They would have been on every coast... Filling every niche. Plenty of shell fish and no other animals to get in their way...

While the other animals had to waste time walking home the otters could have taken over every stretch of coast.

Where are they?

Edit: is this why they were in the Dawkins south park episode?
Slowly but surely they drew their plans against us...

iUseVi

kiffer wrote: »

dear internets!

I have been thinking about this and have come to a worrying question...
Where are all the sea otters?

Bear with me for a moment... During the flood all life on earth other than that which was on the ark or that could survive in the water died...
Sea otters can spend long periods of time in the water eating clams off their tummys.
They may not have been able to sleep in the water but they are small enough to make use of impromptue rafts of flotsam and other wreckage unlike the larger seals which would of needed to be on the ark...
So after the flood there would have been sea otters all over the place... But nothing tp control their numbers. They would have been on every coast... Filling every niche. Plenty of shell fish and no other animals to get in their way...

While the other animals had to waste time walking home the otters could have taken over every stretch of coast.

Where are they?

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

8kvscdpglqnyr4

iUseVi wrote: »

If anyone does this, while they are at it can they please calculate how long it would take one family to collect all these animals from all over the world.

It would take a long time to collect the animal alright, but don't forget, Noah lived to ripe old age of 950 (Genesis 7:11-8:14). That should be enough time for him to figure out how to do it.
The fact that Noah lived to 950 makes the story a lot more plausible.:pac:

iUseVi

Roberto Short Stubble wrote: »

It would take a long time to collect the animal alright, but don't forget, Noah lived to ripe old age of 950 (Genesis 7:11-8:14). That should be enough time for him to figure out how to do it.
The fact that Noah lived to 950 makes the story a lot more plausible.:pac:

It's those little touches you know? Could have done with more fight scenes and possibly a subplot involving time-travel.

EDIT: Yes, I'm bored.

sonicthebadger*

iUseVi wrote: »

It's those little touches you know? Could have done with more fight scenes and possibly a subplot involving time-travel.

EDIT: Yes, I'm bored.

A car chase too maybe, can't beat a good car chase.

mehfesto

sonicthebadger* wrote: »

A car chase too maybe, can't beat a good car chase.

Now we're talkin'.
Okay, we've old, old men, hungry & horny sea otters, magik landscapes, magik water, a bored overlord and a kick ass car chase.


Now we just nee a killer robot driving instructor ho travels back in time for some reason.


Did I mention his best friend is a talking pie? No?

kiffer

... What about people on other boats? Like random fishermen...

Galvasean

kiffer wrote: »

... What about people on other boats? Like random fishermen...

eaten by whales

mehfesto

sonicthebadger* wrote: »

A car chase too maybe, can't beat a good car chase.

What about the salt water fish and freshwater fish?
Surely it wouldve been too salty for the freshwater ones and not salty enough when the waters mixed?

darjeeling

I spy the beginnings of a creationism thread to rival anything they've got over the fence!

sensibleken

look! all you anti-thiests who say that it was impossible or what about all the evil haddock, disingenuous ducks and lustful dolphins the answer is simple. god did it, using miracles. like duh!

kiffer

the flood waters were fresh at the surface and salty deeper down ... There was a Thermohaline boundry which was not disturbed by the turbulent water... That also allowed the salt water dolphins to dive down so that they didn't suffer the problems that living in fresh water causes in most types of dolphins other than river dolphins... Or something...

Galvasean

But WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY go through all the trouble when you can just magic the world better?

Mysterious ways obviously

sensibleken

Galvasean wrote: »

But WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY go through all the trouble when you can just magic the world better?

Mysterious ways obviously

that was magicing the world better. if god was as awesome as everyone says he would have did it with giant robots with faith lazers though

Galvasean

sensibleken wrote: »

that was magicing the world better. if god was as awesome as everyone says he would have did it with giant robots with faith lazers though

Gotta save some for the sequel

MikeC101

You're all ignoring the level of technology Noah had at his disposal



Also from Conservapedia (I can never decide if it's real, or the greatest parody ever created): "It has been noted by several researchers[7][8] that the Chinese character for a "large ship/boat/vessel"[9] is a combination of the characters for "boat,"[10] "eight"[11] and "mouth/person."[12] Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives totaled eight mouths/people. "

So there you go, scientific proof.

Galvasean

MikeC101 wrote: »

Also from Conservapedia (I can never decide if it's real, or the greatest parody ever created): "It has been noted by several researchers[7][8] that the Chinese character for a "large ship/boat/vessel"[9] is a combination of the characters for "boat,"[10] "eight"[11] and "mouth/person."[12] Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives totaled eight mouths/people. "

So there you go, scientific proof.

Also, did you notice that racecar spelt backwards is racecar? I tell ya, there's magic in the water.

MikeC101

Galvasean wrote: »

Also, did you notice that racecar spelt backwards is racecar? I tell ya, there's magic in the water.

I don't know, that's a little too obvious for me. If the ra, ce, ca and r meant circle, goat, en and jin in some other language I'd be more convinced.

Also: Conservapedia are really critical of the "Dark Ages" technology level, huh?

Galvasean

Who needs technology when you have...

Sorcery!!!

robindch

darjeeling wrote: »

I spy the beginnings of a creationism thread to rival anything they've got over the fence!

This will not happen

Zillah

robindch wrote: »

This will not happen

"...I guarantee it!"

eoin5

Galvasean wrote: »

Wasn't sure whether to post this in Religious Humour or Generally Strange. Mods, feel free to move as appropriate.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100428-noahs-ark-found-in-turkey-science-religion-culture/

Sample quote:

Whatever about arcs and rainbows that is one class looking mountain. Bravo photographer!