Eircom next generation what is it

Ranicand

No contention ratio?

Fiber or copper?

MunsterCycling

A ten year old technology that has long since been replaced, they are hyping it but its a load of BS

Ranicand

MunsterCycling wrote: »

A ten year old technology that has long since been replaced, they are hyping it but its a load of BS

Same old Eircom.

jor el

It's a marketing gimmick. Nothing to do with next gen technology.

Does it actually work ?

Calebmcd

I'd like to know whats the difference from the current 8mb.

8128/800 12:1

And the 'NEW' NGB 8mb

?!?

Contention is 1:1

Cabaal

Don't forget though now they will charge you for going over the cap if your on the "Next Generation Super Grovy Broadband Network"

Calebmcd

I'm currently on unlimited download, my speed never drops so will 1:1 benefit me vs my 12:1. (I get 6.6/0.6)

What is the the upload speed(384, 672, 768, 800?)

My exchange is getting the upgrade in Sept - Dec time.

Is it really fibre, if not. Why is 24mb not on the NGB?

Mathiasb

"Eircom next generation" ? Probably more illegal censorship, lower speeds and higher prices!

the_syco

Does anyone know have the new owners taking over yet, or are the old owners sill raping Eircom or every penny it has?

dub45

the_syco wrote: »

Does anyone know have the new owners taking over yet, or are the old owners sill raping Eircom or every penny it has?

Which new owners? hard to keep track at this stage.

4th January last it would seem.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/new-owner-stt-warns-of-serious-challenges-facing-eircom-1978691.html

MunsterCycling

Calebmcd wrote: »

I'm currently on unlimited download, my speed never drops so will 1:1 benefit me vs my 12:1. (I get 6.6/0.6)

What is the the upload speed(384, 672, 768, 800?)

My exchange is getting the upgrade in Sept - Dec time.

Is it really fibre, if not. Why is 24mb not on the NGB?

Because this is just plain old old old ADSL and not ADSL2+ or anything new in fact, just a new marketing drive of defunct tech.

Zapp Brannigan

Is there a way to find out when I'll be put on NGB (currently in an area that supports it) without ringing the dolts (not all of them, some are good) at Customer service?

Calebmcd

They have a map

http://www.nextgenerationbroadband.ie/

Click on Coverage map!

Don't see Captains Log there though sorry

java

Ranicand wrote: »

No contention ratio?

Fiber or copper?

Theres a pretty good explanation of it here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055869976

rob808

yea and the advertisements on TV about bring ireland fibre power broadband what a joke do they think irish people are stupid the asian owners STT kinda funny how they can make that advertisement which is a lie

Zapp Brannigan

Calebmcd wrote: »

They have a map

http://www.nextgenerationbroadband.ie/

Click on Coverage map!

Don't see Captains Log there though sorry

The area I live in is covered but I've still not been put on this "wonderful" new service.

Praetorian

At the very least it should've been an upto 24 m/bit service from the beginning. Or something actually considered next gen, like some kind of fibre roll out or Vdsl or a line bonding technique. What's the problem with using the extra pairs that are going into all our houses anyway?

The reality is that it's a next generation rat

Sponge Bob

Praetorian wrote: »

The reality is that it's a next generation rat

Same generation ADSL1 Rat with a makeover. The next generation bills are out next week.

Calebmcd

Still no price drop anywhere.

8mb and 24mb are virtually the same price.
And removing the 1mb - 7mb, they could have offered loads of cheap alternatives.

Like free 1mb with a talk package?

Not that i want it, give me the max. But i'm not paying €70 for 24mb.
When my friend in the netherlands has 120mb for €60.(UPC)

Although when i think about it i pay €60 for my 8mb? Which is his upload speed.
We don't need to worry though right, we have Eircom Fibre, Wimax and 3G!

Solair

It's NGN "next generation network" which is what Smart Telecom, Magnet and BT Ireland use in their LLU (Unbundled) areas.

Eircom are basically moving to an all-ip network and whacking in more backhaul capacity to those exchanges are being updated.

It may not actually mean more fibre being installed, rather more efficient use of existing fibres.

Eircom's original core network is based around SDH and ATM which was really designed for digital voice / isdn switches. It is not as efficient as IP for data.

From what I gather, the voice/isdn local switches are being IP-enabled so, your voice line will basically be provided by carrier-grade VoIP. This may already be the case in some places, you wouldn't notice any difference.

The idea is you get rid of the old core network, move everything to one efficient IP network and use very sophisticated routing to ensure packets for streaming data eg voice, video etc get priority.

Every major and minor European telco is doing this.

BT's 21CN network project is very similar too.

Gonzo

im amazed they are not moving every exchange to ADSL2+ and offering even 12 meg rather than 10 year old tech with up to 8meg speeds.

Solair

Gonzo wrote: »

im amazed they are not moving every exchange to ADSL2+ and offering even 12 meg rather than 10 year old tech with up to 8meg speeds.

I'd say the main reason is that they don't want to choke the ATM network that's supporting it.

24mbits is available on some exchanges. Suppose it's just a case of wait till they get the NGN nodes in. It's not as drastically complex as putting dsl in in the first place.

The rollout is weird though eg it's very odd that their NGN isn't live in Cork City yet. UPC is taking loads of customers onto fibre power there!

mickydoomsux

Gonzo wrote: »

im amazed they are not moving every exchange to ADSL2+ and offering even 12 meg rather than 10 year old tech with up to 8meg speeds.

Because, Ireland.

mickydoomsux

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Because, Ireland.

Exactly, and maybe the drops in speeds people have had with VF & Eircom over the last few months is just a ploy to make money and get them to sign up to this "new improved, uncongested serviced" :rolleyes:, it wouldn't surprise me.

Calebmcd

Solair wrote: »

I'd say the main reason is that they don't want to choke the ATM network that's supporting it.

24mbits is available on some exchanges. Suppose it's just a case of wait till they get the NGN nodes in. It's not as drastically complex as putting dsl in in the first place.

The rollout is weird though eg it's very odd that their NGN isn't live in Cork City yet. UPC is taking loads of customers onto fibre power there!

My exchange is ADSL2+ enabled. But not NGB enabled. My question is will it be worth waiting for the NGB or go straight to 24mb?

Whil i'm currently already on non-NGB 8mb unlimited!

byte

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Because this is just plain old old old ADSL and not ADSL2+ or anything new in fact, just a new marketing drive of defunct tech.

Really?

FFS, that's a right balls so.

watty

They are just changing some exchange backhauls and swapping users to a "pay by data limit" instead of "pay by speed limit".

So your speed will be whatever the line can do (less than 1/2 can do 8Mbps using any form of DSL given average line length and quality). But your payment is based on Cap you choose.

It will penalise light users.

Xennon

So in theorey all this packet loss in the mid-west could be induced to make people think that they're better off paying more for the shiny new NGB when it becomes available at their exchanges???
Surely not!!

I mean.....would they????......nah!!...not our lads n lassies in Eircom..... :rolleyes:

Btw Bob Love the artwork

watty

There is congestion due to lack of capacity in Midwest on eircom. (affects other ISPs reselling bitstream). Fixing this is not really anything to do with NGN (replacing ATM with IP) or NGB (Fibre to cabinet, kerb, home, coax segment).

Obviously since ATM is 10 years obsolete, any backhaul upgrades to get rid of congestion (which should have been done 5 to 10 years ago), will be NGN architecture (IP based).

Many Mobile mast backhaul are changing from ISDN and ATM to IP based too. It's cheaper and they are adding extra capacity, but it only lets the Mobile mast have its theoretical rubbish performance of HSPA rather than x20 worse 3G basic capacity, i.e. entry level Broaband when one or two users connect and ISDN speed when there are 20 users running in a sector.

So no "next Generation Broadband" from these upgrades. Only the sort of performance you should have had in 2002.

watty

Praetorian wrote: »

. What's the problem with using the extra pairs that are going into all our houses anyway?

Hmm. Those pairs don't go to exchange, only to the cabinet in your street. Eircom so much don't have spare pairs they offered to pay some large customers to go wireless and give back lines. Many people can't get BB at all as they are sharing a pair with 1 to 8 other people.

ADSL2+ and VDSL etc only benefit urban users, less than 25% get significant speed. Even if there was universal VDSL+++ whatever the line length, cross talk, quality, type of wire (approx cat3) etc. would mean average would be about 7Mbps and about 25% would still be less than 3Mbps. Less than 10% would get more than 20Mbps... Approximately.

We need fibre to those local cabinets. Then with bonded pairs you can have 50Mbps to 200Mbps and 20Mbps to 100Mbps on one pair.

EIREHotspur

You know the kind who could get Broadband but don't because they only book holidays and send email jokes back and forth.

My belief is that unless Eamon Ryan, who I think is at least a politician who knows Information Technology, can convince others in Dail Eireann to take Broadband seriously then we will always be a Third World Internet Country.

They are forcing out Terretrial TV in 2012....why.....because it has had it's day and we have to come into the present with better Technology.

The same should be done to Dialup Internet.
A typical Dialup user will argue that they "don't use the Internet much" but I bet you will find that they use nearly €20 a month.
People within Town limits should have one choice of Broadband starting for 1mb @ €20 and then you would see Broadband really take off in this country.

Sponge Bob

EIREHotspur wrote: »

My belief is that unless Eamon Ryan, who I think is at least a politician who knows Information Technology, can convince others in Dail Eireann to take Broadband seriously then we will always be a Third World Internet Country.

Ooooooh the innocence. :D

Ryan knows about as much about technology as my dog does about his father and he cares even less.

EIREHotspur

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ooooooh the innocence. :D

Ryan knows about as much about technology as my dog does about his father and he cares even less.

Well you tell me what you base your assumption on old chap and I will tell you what I base mine on and we will see who is an innocent.

righteo?

watty

EIREHotspur wrote: »

My belief is that unless Eamon Ryan, who I think is at least a politician who knows Information Technology, can convince others in Dail Eireann to take Broadband seriously then we will always be a Third World Internet Country.

That's the Eamonn Ryan that approved the NBS. Fast Wireless Dialup Mobile Internet, not a broadband solution.

EIREHotspur wrote: »

They are forcing out Terretrial TV in 2012....why.....because it has had it's day and we have to come into the present with better Technology.

It's about money. Selling off part of the TV spectrum. This has to be available across Europe at same time to maximise the revenue. It's not really about quality or technology per se.

EIREHotspur wrote: »

The same should be done to Dialup Internet.
A typical Dialup user will argue that they "don't use the Internet much" but I bet you will find that they use nearly €20 a month.
People within Town limits should have one choice of Broadband starting for 1mb @ €20 and then you would see Broadband really take off in this country.

Actually.. loads have people have moved from Dialup on copper to Mobile as the line rental alone is more expensive than a basic 10Gbyte usage Mobile. Less than 2/3rds of Households have a phone line now. About 1/3rd of those have it paid for by Social Welfare.

About 10% to 15% (exact figures are not independently audited) of lines can't do Broadband of 1Mbps or higher. Less than 50% can get more than 7Mbps (approx). Only 10% to 15% of lines can do more than 20Mbps.

We have maybe the most expensive line rental in the world and our broadband rollout and upgrades are maybe 5 to 8 years behind other countries.

The problem is NOT demand, as shown by take up of the Mobile offerings, but price, performance and availability. We only recently sorted out LLU pricing just as the rest of the world has decided to bypass DSL/Copper and rollout fibre.

jor el

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Well you tell me what you base your assumption on old chap and I will tell you what I base mine on and we will see who is an innocent.

righteo?

Eamon Ryan is the one that keeps telling us that 3G is the way forward for broadband in Ireland, and that it can guarantee speeds of 1.2Mbps to all users, and that speed increases are going to be in the order of 14Mbps+ by the end of 2009. Thus proving that he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

Like most other politicians, he is technology illiterate.

bealtine

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Well you tell me what you base your assumption on old chap and I will tell you what I base mine on and we will see who is an innocent.

righteo?

What exactly has Ryan done for communications policy in Ireland?
(Answers on the back of a stamp please)

mk6705

EIREHotspur wrote: »

You know the kind who could get Broadband but don't because they only book holidays and send email jokes back and forth.

My belief is that unless Eamon Ryan, who I think is at least a politician who knows Information Technology, can convince others in Dail Eireann to take Broadband seriously then we will always be a Third World Internet Country.

They are forcing out Terretrial TV in 2012....why.....because it has had it's day and we have to come into the present with better Technology.

The same should be done to Dialup Internet.
A typical Dialup user will argue that they "don't use the Internet much" but I bet you will find that they use nearly €20 a month.
People within Town limits should have one choice of Broadband starting for 1mb @ €20 and then you would see Broadband really take off in this country.

Eamon Ryan has no idea what he's talking about. He is in my opinion the least competent minister in Ireland, and serves only to look like he is taking action, while in fact he is doing very little and even holding up the innovation that we need in Ireland.

jor el

bealtine wrote: »

What exactly has Ryan done for communications policy in Ireland?
(Answers on the back of a stamp please)

Apparently, "The speeds of broadband that we are beginning to see in Ireland are evidence that the Government’s policy of competition in the market is working", he has done this. Funny man, I think he may be vying for a position as Tommy Tiernan's warm up act.

bealtine

jor el wrote: »

Apparently, "The speeds of broadband that we are beginning to see in Ireland are evidence that the Government’s policy of competition in the market is working", he has done this. Funny man, I think he may be vying for a position as Tommy Tiernan's warm up act.

He spends more time on everything else, banking,finance and many other things rather than the stuff he is actually in charge of. He rarely, if ever, speaks on communications policy on the TV or radio. He seems to be rather pointless as a minister. I've had meetings with him in his official capacity as a Minister and he just seems overwhelmed by all things technical.


He'd look good in a "Crusty" suit ok...
He's actually a nice guy all the same just in the wrong job.

Praetorian

watty wrote: »

Hmm. Those pairs don't go to exchange, only to the cabinet in your street. Eircom so much don't have spare pairs they offered to pay some large customers to go wireless and give back lines. Many people can't get BB at all as they are sharing a pair with 1 to 8 other people.

ADSL2+ and VDSL etc only benefit urban users, less than 25% get significant speed. Even if there was universal VDSL+++ whatever the line length, cross talk, quality, type of wire (approx cat3) etc. would mean average would be about 7Mbps and about 25% would still be less than 3Mbps. Less than 10% would get more than 20Mbps... Approximately.

We need fibre to those local cabinets. Then with bonded pairs you can have 50Mbps to 200Mbps and 20Mbps to 100Mbps on one pair.

Thanks Watty.

This is exactly what you predicted would happen; a change to charging for data. It must've been a few years ago when you called that one.

I can't see Eircom having the money to roll out any fibre to cabinets for a long time. Here's hoping UPC don't stop and maybe magnet get their asses in gear.

I should be happy I've 15 meg at home.

Xennon

What exactly has Ryan done for communications policy in Ireland?
(Answers on the back of a stamp please)

HOW DARE YOU!!... I need that stamp coz my bloody email doesnt work!
:rolleyes:

chopperbyrne

If they're moving to 1:1 contention, then surely there is no need for a cap, especially one as small as 30GB.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Watch that word.. "contention"