Irish Rail Smartcard e-purse now online

KC61

The Irish Rail smartcard epurse is now available online:
www.irishrail.ie/smartcards

The epurse fares are listed at:
https://www.irishrail.ie:8443/smartcard/pdf/SmartCardFares_2010.pdf

This will be useful to occasional users of the train, and is a further step towards finally bringing in the integrated smartcard.

JHMEG

Excellent:rolleyes: Running on a non-standard port, 8443, so it's blocked in many offices, including mine, as well as a lot of public services offices.

What's with running the server on a non-standard port... have they not heard of using multiple host names and HTTP 1.1.

Run_to_da_hills

I don't see any great incentive to move over to one of these, they would also want to have a "honeymoon" period to cater for those that fail to tag in / out properly on their journeys.

robd

JHMEG wrote: »

Excellent:rolleyes: Running on a non-standard port, 8443, so it's blocked in many offices, including mine, as well as a lot of public services offices.

What's with running the server on a non-standard port... have they not heard of using multiple host names and HTTP 1.1.

I believe from this post on railusers.ie that it is only temporary. It will move to standard 443.

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=12024

Cookie_Monster

hmm... €0.40
cent cheaper on an average DART journey. (Killiney to GCD) for some reason Tara St not on the online fares.

Online fare from irishrail.ie fare - €2.75
Smartcard - €2.35

pays for itself pretty quickly, good move

EDIT: good few stations missing from that

munchkin_utd

Theres a bit of discount built in there to encourage use.

Conolly-Coolmine is 2.30 in cash (according to my ticket from 3 weeks ago)
With smartcard "only" 2.10

Then again. At a cost of a fiver just to own the card itsself, you'd need to make a not insignificant 25 suburban journeys just to break even.

Run_to_da_hills

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Theres a bit of discount built in there to encourage use.

Conolly-Coolmine is 2.30 in cash (according to my ticket from 3 weeks ago)
With smartcard "only" 2.10

Then again. At a cost of a fiver just to own the card itsself, you'd need to make a not insignificant 25 suburban journeys just to break even.

By that time you have done 25 journeys you could have lost the card, wait a minute, you can register your details, name and address etc,

Ha, now they can track all your movments. I knew there was a catch.

maggy_thatcher

The Iarnród Éireann Smart Card only works on Iarnród Éireann's services. It does not work on Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus or LUAS services. An integrated services smart card will be implemented by the RPA in future.

Whose bright idea was this? Introduce 4 parallel smart card systems and then go and do it all over again...why didn't they work together from the start?

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

hmm... €0.40
cent cheaper on an average DART journey. (Killiney to GCD) for some reason Tara St not on the online fares.

Online fare from irishrail.ie fare - €2.75
Smartcard - €2.35

pays for itself pretty quickly, good move

EDIT: good few stations missing from that

Tara Street, Connolly and Pearse are all "City Centre"

KC61

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Whose bright idea was this? Introduce 4 parallel smart card systems and then go and do it all over again...why didn't they work together from the start?

One word. Politics.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

Tara Street, Connolly and Pearse are all "City Centre"

Thats lazy and stupid. I'll not look under "C" for a station beginning with "T" :mad:


:P

Theta

I have a friend testing the integrated ticketing.

Do all the DART station now have readers to tag out i see them on the way in all right but have them but them facing out on all of the turnstyles?

JHMEG

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Whose bright idea was this? Introduce 4 parallel smart card systems and then go and do it all over again...why didn't they work together from the start?

4 smart cards means 4 managers and their teams can back slap and get payrises.

maggy_thatcher

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Thats lazy and stupid. I'll not look under "C" for a station beginning with "T" :mad:


:P

Then use the PDF that uses the "distance" style prices. It has each station listed separately.

Cookie_Monster

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Then use the PDF that uses the "distance" style prices. It has each station listed separately.

:rolleyes:
thats the smartcard one which I was using for comparison anyway

robd

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Whose bright idea was this? Introduce 4 parallel smart card systems and then go and do it all over again...why didn't they work together from the start?

That was the RPA's job. They spent nearly 10 years trying to do it. It resulting in fighting amongst the 3 CIE companies and Luas operator for split of revenue. It went nowhere.

New way was to allow operators to install there own smart card system, then integrate them. They'll all be integrated by 31/03/2011 at the latest. The functionality won't be that smart though as no change in fare structure or caping etc. yet for multi-mode travel. That will likely have to be politically mandated at a later stage again.

maggy_thatcher

robd wrote: »

That was the RPA's job. They spent nearly 10 years trying to do it. It resulting in fighting amongst the 3 CIE companies and Luas operator for split of revenue. It went nowhere.

So in other words, the RPA were too weak to dictate terms to the companies.

robd wrote: »

New way was to allow operators to install there own smart card system, then integrate them. They'll all be integrated by 31/03/2011 at the latest. The functionality won't be that smart though as no change in fare structure or caping etc. yet for multi-mode travel. That will likely have to be politically mandated at a later stage again.

So I assume that means that magstripe cards are going to remain until at least 31/03/2012 (so that anybody who gets one of the annual combined tickets before April 2011 can still use their ticket)? That's quite some "transition period"!

paulm17781

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

So in other words, the RPA were too weak to dictate terms to the companies.

Well, the government gave them no power to dictate to other companies. It is all down to bad government planning.

maggy_thatcher

paulm17781 wrote: »

Well, the government gave them no power to dictate to other companies. It is all down to bad government planning.

Reminds me of Contact - First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?

I guess we take it that little bit further...

Theta

robd wrote: »

That was the RPA's job. They spent nearly 10 years trying to do it. It resulting in fighting amongst the 3 CIE companies and Luas operator for split of revenue. It went nowhere.

They also all have a complete different set of requirements of what they want to be able to read and keep on the card which is holding it all up!

Dum_Dum

JHMEG wrote: »

Excellent:rolleyes: Running on a non-standard port, 8443, so it's blocked in many offices, including mine, as well as a lot of public services offices.

What's with running the server on a non-standard port... have they not heard of using multiple host names and HTTP 1.1.

Moronic.

Makes you think they can't other things right either - like stopping bridges falling into the sea or running a railway.

munchkin_utd

Theta wrote: »

They also all have a complete different set of requirements of what they want to be able to read and keep on the card which is holding it all up!

indeed
which goes back to the point that the operators wouldnt agree on a common fare like pretty much every other european city has outside UK/ Ireland

They already have the common "short hop" intermodal ticket.
If they simply brought in
a) a "micro hop" ticket for the city itsself as opposed to as far as balbriggan,
b) allowed a version of it per journey rather than per week,
then you'd have a common workable fare structure to allow changes between bus and train overnight compared to an extremely complicated 10 year long consultancy period came up with a card which does nothing more than save you having to have a bit of silver in your pocket to hand to the bus driver.

murphaph

Ultimately any introduction of integrated fares will see a reduction at the fare box and so the required government subvention to all the operators would go up. If we want European style public transport we will have to pay for it through higher taxation. is it worth it? IMO hell yes! but in the minds of the gombeens that run Ireland and indeed to many of those who vote for them but are wedded to their one off houses and SUVs, have absolutely no interest in raising taxes to subsidise "poor people on the bus".

blubloblu

Will they include fares for students? The current DART fares for over 18 year old students are a joke.

snappieT

I like it, and I've registered.

However:
It seemed to think my email was already registered, somehow.
The "forgot password" link brings you to localhost :P

Ste.phen

Shame, i'm in the target market for this (irregular user) but I only have 3 places in my wallet i can put RFID cards without them interfering with each other (front, back, middle-fold-out-part) and those are taken with the Dublin Bus, Luas and Dublin Bikes cards. If i got this, i'd have to start taking cards out of my wallet to use it. Lame.

munchkin_utd

Ste.phen wrote: »

Shame, i'm in the target market for this (irregular user) but I only have 3 places in my wallet i can put RFID cards without them interfering with each other (front, back, middle-fold-out-part) and those are taken with the Dublin Bus, Luas and Dublin Bikes cards. If i got this, i'd have to start taking cards out of my wallet to use it. Lame.

Oh the irony of it.

your wallet is a one stop fully functional integrated ticketing system !!

maybe sell it to the government for 40 million?

markpb

snappieT wrote: »

I like it, and I've registered.

If you've already registered on the IrishRail website (to buy intercity tickets), you can use the same email/password on the smartcard website.

MysticalSoul

I am considering it. I get a weekly ticket between Portmarnock and Grand Canal every week, however do occassionally head to Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock, so would be handy to have this as an option too, depending on where I was embarking/disembarking.

Van.Bosch

I get an annual bus/rail ticket which is due to be replaced in July. Will the new one be a smartcard?

maggy_thatcher

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I get an annual bus/rail ticket which is due to be replaced in July. Will the new one be a smartcard?

I just got a brand new one yesterday morning (for May). It isn't a smart-card. If you get the Dublin Bus issued annual ticket, it is a smart card for the buses and magstripe for the trains. If you get an Irish Rail issued annual ticket, it appears to be still magstripe for both bus and rail. Maybe they'll change this by the end of June though.

markpb

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I get an annual bus/rail ticket which is due to be replaced in July. Will the new one be a smartcard?

My understanding is that if you buy your new ticket from DB, the smartcard bit will work on the bus and the magstripe will work on the train (with some problems). If you buy it from Irish Rail, it will be the other way round.

oneway2

I've been emailing the good people of the DARt today asking the no-brainer questions that should have been on the first page of the smartcard web site but are missing. Again they've let the tekkies run the show and not the customer service people...

The card is advertised as _just like the Oyster card from the Tube_ but according to DART, the card is not capped. With an Oyster card if you take three or more trips on the tube, the card realises you've paid more than a one-day ticket (in DORT-speak a day rambler) and the clever Oyster only charges a maximum per day equal to the cost of a day ticket. According to the DART guys you keep on paying with this smartcard even if you end up paying more than the cost of a day rambler ticket.

It's not so much a smartcard, more of a, um, card. There ain't no smarts here.

Also, the cost per trip is based on half of the return cost of the journey, so e.g. two 3.20 trips are chsrged as 2x3.00, the same as the 6.00 return for the same distance.

BluntGuy

I should be getting excited at the prospect of this new "smart" card, but the clunky implementation of this whole integrated ticketing is really putting me off.

eclectichoney

Surely nobody will use these except for occasional users (e.g. making a few trips a week) The fact that you don't get the 7 day rolling rates like with standard tickets is a bit ridiculous to say the least.

And yes, the apparent single fare discount, is just because it builds in half the normal discount you get with a 'paper' ticket return fare.

Rashers72

I cannot believe it will not cap it to the maximum daily ticket price. Basic stuff. Also, I wonder will you get your deposit back, when you hand it back when the new integrated ticket comes out?
Or if they have a similar deposit on the new one, maybe you can just do a straight swap?
But, it does seem to be good for 1 way journeys. Can't see a massive market for same, without incurring a lot more marketing.
Final question - can you buy the smartcard from a ticket office? I am expecting some travel vouchers in settlement for some delay claims, and I was thinking of using them for this.

Mark200

It seems that you can't get a weekly ticket on it, can you?

I get a weekly into town which works out at E19.30. But if this thing is just going to charge me the cost of a return every day, then that's (5 x 4.20) E21.00

Edit - actually, forgot about the 30c or so discount you get with them. I think that pretty much makes up the difference.

Oliver1985

Mark200 wrote: »

It seems that you can't get a weekly ticket on it, can you?

I get a weekly into town which works out at E19.30. But if this thing is just going to charge me the cost of a return every day, then that's (5 x 4.20) E21.00

Edit - actually, forgot about the 30c or so discount you get with them. I think that pretty much makes up the difference.

There is no 30cent discount

Cookie_Monster

Oliver1985 wrote: »

There is no 30cent discount

there are discounted fare on the smartcard. Killiney to Tara st is 40c cheaper for example.

2.35 vs 2.75

maggy_thatcher

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there are discounted fare on the smartcard. Killiney to Tara st is 40c cheaper for example.

2.35 vs 2.75

€2.35 is half of €4.70, which is what an adult day return is. There's no discount unless you are only buying singles all the time.

stepbar

Another fcuking smart card... O great :rolleyes:

Oliver1985

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there are discounted fare on the smartcard. Killiney to Tara st is 40c cheaper for example.

2.35 vs 2.75

Yeah 30c on a one way , return same price so if you wanna save the 30cent walk home

TarfHead

I spend €16.00 per week on DART fares - €2.30 + €11.40 + €2.30.

Using a Smart Card, those 8 journeys would cost me €2.10 x 8 = €16.80.

Plus €5.00 for the privilege of having a card.

Why would I bother ?

1 occasional top-up versus 3 ticket purchases per week ? Don't think so.

KC61

I find it constantly extraordinary that people seem to think that they are getting a totally "smart" card. I have several times outlined the thought process behind the project in posts on this forum.

Yes it will offer reduced single fares for combined bus/bus, bus/luas bus/rail or rail/luas journeys over the cash alternative, but as of now there are no plans at the outset for a cap to be introduced equivalent to the appropriate 1 day ticket price.

It *may* be introduced at a later date.

The same applies to the current LUAS smart card - there is no daily cap.

As I said in my initial posts in this thread, these and the final integrated smartcard are all designed with the occasional transport user in mind.

For the rest of us the current large range of prepaid period passes will continue, although in time it may be possible to load these onto the same card as the epurse.

maggy_thatcher

KC61 wrote: »

As I said in my initial posts in this thread, these and the final integrated smartcard are all designed with the occasional transport user in mind.

So they spend all this money developing a whole new ticketing system to benefit those who use it the least? How does that make sense? Shouldn't they be working on making things easier for the rest of us who fork out hundreds of euro a year on train fares?

KC61 wrote: »

For the rest of us the current large range of prepaid period passes will continue, although in time it may be possible to load these onto the same card as the epurse.

And until that time, it's just a novelty item for the few people who use the railway rarely enough to not need a weekly/monthly/yearly ticket, but often enough to deem it worth blowing €5 as deposit on an RFID chip.

KC61

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

So they spend all this money developing a whole new ticketing system to benefit those who use it the least? How does that make sense? Shouldn't they be working on making things easier for the rest of us who fork out hundreds of euro a year on train fares?

Most regular users all have prepaid tickets as it is!!! Or they should!

There is a full range of 1 day, weekly, monthly and annual tickets already there for bus, bus/luas, rail/luas and a monthly/annual bus/rail/luas option also. There is the Travel 90 bus ticket that limits the bus fare to a maximum of EUR 1.80.

This project is not going to change that.

It will however, in addition ot occasional users, be useful for those people paying the EUR 1.60 bus fares or less for whom there are no prepaid tickets available. The discount may attract more of these onto public transport.

KC61

At the end of the day a pay-as-you go ticket will generally ideally suit occasional users or those paying lower fares.

A daily cap to my mind is a necessity, as with Oyster in London, but even there most regular daily users have weekly/monthly/annual period passes appropriate to their needs stored on their Oyster Card so are not using the pay-as-you-go functionality.

maggy_thatcher

KC61 wrote: »

Most regular users all have prepaid tickets as it is!!! Or they should!

Yes - that's my point - why don't they (from the start) allow you to purchase the prepaid tickets onto the new cards. In particular, the current annual tickets are quite fragile but have to last 12 months...

KC61 wrote: »

There is a full range of 1 day, weekly, monthly and annual tickets already there for bus, bus/luas, rail/luas and a monthly/annual bus/rail/luas option also. There is the Travel 90 bus ticket that limits the bus fare to a maximum of EUR 1.80.

This project is not going to change that.

It will however, in addition ot occasional users, be useful for those people paying the EUR 1.60 bus fares or less for whom there are no prepaid tickets available. The discount may attract more of these onto public transport.

No - this project is purely for trains, so they're all prepaid...they haven't integrated them with the buses yet due to bureaucratic red tape. And it isn't a discounted ticket unless you only ever do one-ways.

maggy_thatcher

As an aside, I noticed coming into Clontarf Road this evening that the barriers were switched off (and open). If you had a Smart Card you wouldn't be able to tag off -- how is the system going to handle things like that (other than overcharging people)?

KC61

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Yes - that's my point - why don't they (from the start) allow you to purchase the prepaid tickets onto the new cards. In particular, the current annual tickets are quite fragile but have to last 12 months...

That will happen...in time

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

No - this project is purely for trains, so they're all prepaid...they haven't integrated them with the buses yet due to bureaucratic red tape. And it isn't a discounted ticket unless you only ever do one-ways.

I know that - but you are just falling into the "occasional user" bracket rather than a daily return user.

My comments were with regard to the overall scheme.

murphaph

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

As an aside, I noticed coming into Clontarf Road this evening that the barriers were switched off (and open). If you had a Smart Card you wouldn't be able to tag off -- how is the system going to handle things like that (other than overcharging people)?

This is something I really worry about in Ireland. Maintenance is often bloody awful so this really could be an issue. The whole smart card thing is good for one thing though....it automatically collects data about what journies are being made in reality. If every regular passenger (the people the service should be set up to serve the best) used a smart card to tag on and off buses and trains, then the NTA would know exactly what commuting patterns needed to be served. Compare this to what they have to do in Berlin....ask people. I was questioned about my journey this morning by a BVG surveyor about my journey, but it's hit and miss as a lot of passengers declined her request to tell her about their journey. With smart cards, the doubt is eliminated and the network can be designed around real commuting patterns.

This is way down the road though.