Photos of Roma on the door of Vibes and Scribes...

simu

Passing Vibes and Scribes (the quay-side one) yesterday, I noticed they had photos taken on the streets of Cork of Roma gypsies displayed on the shop door along with a “beware” sign. I assume that they must have had run-ins with these particular Roma in the past but... What’s the legal situation regarding the display of such photos? If these people are shoplifting or causing Vibes other trouble, as the display suggests, isn’t that a matter for the Gardaí? It could be interpreted as incitation to racial hatred imo given that all the people in the pictures are wearing the costume of an already often-reviled minority.

Thoughts?

Owen

What does it matter if they're Roma? Petrol stations post CCTV still photos on their walls of thieves, so do supermarkets. Fair play to them for having the balls to do it, and for anyone playing the race card, bugger off. A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

themonboys

AFAIK If the picture was taken in a public place then the people in those pictures waved their right of privacy however " You may also be found in contempt of court if you publish a photograph that might prejudice the defendant by insinuating his guilt (for example, of him being brought to court in handcuffs), or a photograph that might reveal prior convictions (for example, of the defendant at a previous trial)."

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2006/05/09/photographers-rights/

It's a fine line.

Euro_Kraut

PaintDoctor wrote: »

A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

Provided the allegation of criminality has been proven in a court of law.

Manach

I'd agree with PaintDoctor. If the photos are of known shoplifters (which given the onus on Irish Courts to hold proceedings in public in non-custodial proceedings : means that their identines are of public-record), then it should not be an issue.

RoundyMooney

They've done the same in Midleton. There are people doing the rounds as well, pretending to collect outside shops on behalf of the "Asthma Society". They'd have trouble breathing alright in an ideal world :mad:

corkcomp

PaintDoctor wrote: »

What does it matter if they're Roma? Petrol stations post CCTV still photos on their walls of thieves, so do supermarkets. Fair play to them for having the balls to do it, and for anyone playing the race card, bugger off. A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

exactly what that man said! I knew two shops who display pics of shoplifters near the checkout... surely they should not make an exception for roma?

Papa_Lazarou

corkcomp wrote: »

exactly what that man said! I knew two shops who display pics of shoplifters near the checkout... surely they should not make an exception for roma?

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

themonboys

There's an article in todays Echo about this.

Kold

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

Their hot chicken rolls have dipped in quality

bladebrew

the shop beside the post office on sundays well had photos in the window of people that were shoplifting, im not sure if they are still there though, all the people in those photos were wearing tracksuits:),

normally photos of these type are from cctv stills though not pics taken on the street,

Papa_Lazarou

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

They have a sign inside warning folks that they will do that

simu

themonboys wrote: »

There's an article in todays Echo about this.

Ah, I missed that - what was the gist of it?

JohnK

I didnt hear it myself but apparently there was a good bit on 96FM about it on Friday with a follow-up today that I did hear some of – its still going on at the time of this post btw.

Basically the owner of the shop is saying herself and her staff have repeatedly seen people stealing from the shop so in some cases shes taken photos of the people to display in the window. Not showing them stealing or anything just photos to show their faces. Since all those in the photos are Romany gypsies an anti-racism crowd is complaining and now talking about picketing the shop.

The shops main problem though that other shops aren’t coming up against is that they dont have any independent evidence of the alleged thefts only staff reports claiming they witnessed it. Their CCTV apparently was only focused on hidden corners and the till so they've got nothing on that.

Today the shop says over the weekend some of these Romany claiming to represent the anti-racism crowd entered the shop, shouted at staff then took down the photos and ripped them up.

themonboys

simu wrote: »

Ah, I missed that - what was the gist of it?

JohnK basically covered it all above. There was also a chap from a hairdressers on Neil today and something similar happened to him last week. They (Romas) burst into the salon, surrounded a costumer,shouted abuse at her and waved newspapers in her face. He intervened and then they left, it took all of 30 seconds. As you can guess, IPhone gone. Fair-play to him he replaced the phone for the customer, over 500 euros worth.

Some do gooder muppet was on the radio about how it was a minority bla bla bla. They are working with a liason person to establish the needs etc of the folks. They need (imo) to be locked up. They don't seem to be about selling flowers or begging as much these days though, weird.

fastrac

Owner talking to Joe on the liveline.

Cadyboo

RoverJames wrote: »

Some do gooder muppet was on the radio about how it was a minority bla bla bla. They are working with a liason person to establish the needs etc of the folks. They need (imo) to be locked up. They don't seem to be about selling flowers or begging as much these days though, weird.

They kept getting arrested for selling the flowers so now they rob things!
Was outside havanas one night sitting on the ground (as you do ) and 4 of them came over to me, trying to sell flowers. Me being a little drunk and stupid opened my bag and took out 2 euro. 3 of them got closer to me, and 1 girl, who was really pretty with fab english gave out to them and they backed off. She then gave me the flower and never took the money.
Now I had full control of my myself so if anything happened I would have lost it!
And so my point is, there are some with morals.

Cadyboo

Cadyboo wrote: »

Was outside havanas one night sitting on the ground (as you do )

Smoker me thinks :P

Cadyboo

RoverJames wrote: »

Smoker me thinks :P

Yep, and a girl, so heels hurt!! lol

Gigiwagga

I heard the discussion on Liveline today. I find it bizarre that people from a particular country or ethnic background can exploit the racism card when they are caught short. This is clearly about individuals using belligerence and hostility to steal from a store. The anti-racist groups are tormenting the store because of this, and are being ridiculous and narrow minded.

corkcomp

Gigiwagga wrote: »

I heard the discussion on Liveline today. I find it bizarre that people from a particular country or ethnic background can exploit the racism card when they are caught short. This is clearly about individuals using belligerence and hostility to steal from a store. The anti-racist groups are tormenting the store because of this, and are being ridiculous and narrow minded.

+1

digme

PaintDoctor wrote: »

What does it matter if they're Roma? Petrol stations post CCTV still photos on their walls of thieves, so do supermarkets. Fair play to them for having the balls to do it, and for anyone playing the race card, bugger off. A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

You sir are a dying breed,fair play to common sense and courage.

CantGetNoSleep

Sometimes these anti-racist groups do more to incite my absolute disgust at certain classes of people - particularly ones that defend blatant disregard of the law by these people. It promotes racism more than anything I think

babo9

RoverJames wrote: »

Papa_Lazarou wrote:

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

They have a sign inside warning folks that they will do that

They used to have a sign saying if you used the bank machine without buying in the shop they'd put up your pic!! :eek: I often wondered if that's why there's so many pics...
Surely that's illegal, considering it's AIBs machine, I once mentioned it to AIB when I happened to be talking to someone in there and they said they weren't sure, that I'd either have to confront the shop or the garda!!

corkcomp

babo9 wrote: »

They used to have a sign saying if you used the bank machine without buying in the shop they'd put up your pic!! :eek: I often wondered if that's why there's so many pics...
Surely that's illegal, considering it's AIBs machine, I once mentioned it to AIB when I happened to be talking to someone in there and they said they weren't sure, that I'd either have to confront the shop or the garda!!

thats a whole other debate but im certian the shop owner gets the final say re the usage of in store atm machines.. the bank are providing them as a service the same way aib provide laser machines.. the reason most shops install an atm is so they can lodge their takings into it and it saves going to the bank

missfrilly

I've had personal experience with each member of this gang.They would come into the shop I worked in at least 5 times a day,each time attempting to rob and be abusive verbally and physically to the staff and sometimes other customers.We had video evidence,witnesses and once a Guard even came in with a bag full of stuff they had taken from the place with the tags still on.And yet there were no convictions.

We did have enough however to refuse them entry.They had been made aware of this by the guards and the shop manager and staff but they continued to come in time and time again.The gang pictured plus one other woman who I didn't see in the pictures are the ONLY Roma who gave us trouble.They would intimidate other non gang member Roman. We also had trouble with white Irish people who once caught were also told not to come back to the shop.

I'm not sure what can be done .Maybe the guards' hands are tied as the courts probably just fine them or leave them out after a day or two. This shop owner must have been driven to distraction .It is an awful feeling to be constantly intimidated in your work place and this gang are relentless.I understand that the women were not convicted in this case but I absolutely know how the staff must feel.I agree that was wrong to put the photos up but there was probably nothing left to do.

There is no point saying just bar them, you can't ,they just keep coming back.There is no point saying oh get a security guard , shops can't afford to hire them. We asked the guards to patrol the street our shop was on , they said they would but never did.We asked again -and nothing.

Papa_Lazarou

babo9 wrote: »

They used to have a sign saying if you used the bank machine without buying in the shop they'd put up your pic!! :eek: I often wondered if that's why there's so many pics...
Surely that's illegal, considering it's AIBs machine, I once mentioned it to AIB when I happened to be talking to someone in there and they said they weren't sure, that I'd either have to confront the shop or the garda!!

Never used the atm in there but that's just silly imo. Although he does have some sort of right. With in-store atms the store themselves actually keep the atms topped up with money and then the banks "refund" them the money that has been taken out. And there isn't another atm for a fair aul distance around there so there was probably a lot of people coming in and using it and not purchasing anything.

Papa_Lazarou

missfrilly wrote: »

.I agree that was wrong to put the photos up but there was probably nothing left to do.

In no way is it illegal or wrong to put up a photo of someone that you caught robbing from your store.

missfrilly

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

In no way is it illegal or wrong to put up a photo of someone that you caught robbing from your store.

I would have thought you'd have to have a conviction no? If no then fair enough.

Papa_Lazarou

missfrilly wrote: »

I would have thought you'd have to have a conviction no? If no then fair enough.

I wouldn't say so as they posted them up within there own shop and im sure they would only stick them up if they were sure what they had seen. Ain't libelous if its what the owner saw.

missfrilly

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

I wouldn't say so as they posted them up within there own shop and im sure they would only stick them up if they were sure what they had seen. Ain't libelous if its what the owner saw.

Well something really needs to be done to get rid of this gang . They are an organised criminal gang who jut happen to be Roma. I just cannot see why they can't be convicted and put in prison. And of course because the Roma are new to Ireland people will tar with the same brush when in reality (from my experience) it is this specific gang that are the problem in Cork City.

Loads of the Roma gypsies used to be dropped off at the bridges for their begging shift in a green Opel Vectra, some joke :rolleyes:

Gigiwagga

Most mornings, Roma's living up the street from me, three women. Are brought by what I assume is the husband of one of them, in his 04 black BMW jeep into the city to beg. I know the owner of the house, they're getting rent allowance and all the other frills. About eight people live in the house.
I've been breaking my ass working to pay my mortgage, feed my family and maintain my 01 Seat. I have to admit I get seriously pissed off.

I have seen him dropping them off in town, to beg. Clear as day. I was stunned.

simu

Sounds like the Guards are turning a blind eye to this tbh. I'm no liberal loon - I believe anyone committing crime should be punished harshly and if foreign, deported to their home country but I would rather shoplifters be tried by the legal system rather than shopkeepers (and the fact that all the folks in the photos are Roma has the unfortunate effect of tarring them all with the same brush). If the problem of petty crime and intimidation is so bad, why aren't city business owners speaking out and lobbying the guards and politicians?

Stark

simu wrote:

(and the fact that all the folks in the photos are Roma has the unfortunate effect of tarring them all with the same brush

What's the shopkeeper meant to do? Photoshop in some United colours of Benetton kids to add a bit of diversity? Let's not speak ill of the Mafia in case we end up tarring all Italians with the same brush.The Roma would benefit more from having the Gardaí crack down on their criminal element rather than having everyone trying to maintain political correctness despite seeing the criminal activity first hand. missfrilly has pretty much answered the question about how far the shopkeepers are getting with the Gardaí.

duckysauce

Gigiwagga wrote: »

Most mornings, Roma's living up the street from me, three women. Are brought by what I assume is the husband of one of them, in his 04 black BMW jeep into the city to beg. I know the owner of the house, they're getting rent allowance and all the other frills. About eight people live in the house.
I've been breaking my ass working to pay my mortgage, feed my family and maintain my 01 Seat. I have to admit I get seriously pissed off.

I have seen him dropping them off in town, to beg. Clear as day. I was stunned.

give the revenue a bell

duckysauce

duckysauce wrote: »

give the revenue a bell

They won't do a thing unfortunately, how someone on welfare can buy and run an 04 Bimmer is beyond me. Still a phonecall wouldn't do any harm, also be sure to complain about any anti social behaviour that is going on, noise at night etc.

I also don't know how they make a penny begging, what kind of f**ktard gives money to a smelly, p1ssy, fat Roma yoke dressed like 40 coats

deRanged

I saw a small article in last night's echo saying that one of the FG city councillors (whose name I've forgotten of course) was supporting the shop keepers. proper order too.

JP Liz V1

Neil Prenderville on 96fm has been on about this the last few mornings

Was any of them arrested and charged?

Dudess

Gigiwagga wrote: »

Are brought by what I assume is the husband of one of them, in his 04 black BMW jeep into the city to beg.

If that really is the type of vehicle, then it's unlikely to be the husband - or any relative.

RoverJames wrote: »

how someone on welfare can buy and run an 04 Bimmer is beyond me.

Exactly.

I also don't know how they make a penny begging, what kind of f**ktard gives money to a smelly, p1ssy, fat Roma yoke dressed like 40 coats

True, I only give money to those beggars whom I consider hot...

By the way, whatever about sticking up pictures, I agree with the sentiment that the ones in this particular case are because of them being shoplifters, not Roma.

miss_shadow

The pictures have been taken down..I didn't see them, anyway.

danbohan

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Provided the allegation of criminality has been proven in a court of law.

unless of course they were stealing from , you!

Owen

miss_shadow wrote: »

The pictures have been taken down..I didn't see them, anyway.

From what I heard on the radio, the gang came into the store shouting, and tore them up during the week. Classy crew!

gimmick

Just another issue for the "anti racism" morons this is. TBH, I cross the road rather than go near any of these gypsy and would rather throw a cent into the river than give it to these things. I have the same attitudes to most people who expect everyone else to give them a living.

Fair play vibes and scribes. FFS, just because they have a differnt colour skin we are supposed to be all PC and nice. Feck off.

Most of these anti racist types are complete loons anyway who are to be pitied and avoided also.

Swear to god, i would love to be black/ethnic in this country. You can get away with murder.

Dudess

I too read the shop owner is experiencing intimidation by eejits just barging in. Shame - Vibes & Scribes is an excellent shop. Some people are just desperate to find racism where there isn't any.
That said, this WILL lead to further marginalisation of Roma people - the fault of the thieves themselves yes, but also, there is a hatred of Roma anyway, this thread being a reflection of it. I don't think it's right to assume every single one of them is a bad 'un.

Gigiwagga

sorry but the roma family/group lived on our street for the last 5 years approx' I'd see the man there every day going from house to car, kids hanging around the house, he is a Roma as they are, other people coming and going from the house, all Roma, or at least all the same dress code, so I'm assuming.
I once saw him get out of his BMW walk to the open front door of the house where a Roma woman was standing, wife/sister I don't know, and while muttering something, spat, heavily and directly into her face, from a distance of about a foot. Utterly disgusting. He returned to his cool shiny car and drove away. I probably should have intervened but then again I was uncertain as to what I should have done.
Seems to me that many of the Roma women are under the heel of their menfolk, seeing as most of the men seem to do f*** all with themselves. The women do the begging and the stealing, the twat men drive around like lords.

miss_shadow

Aw noooo I had written a longish post that I saw a small article in the echo yesterday that a local business woman is having a meeting with the Roma community today. Guards and immigrant support groups will be present too, because she is sick of being harrassed by these romas!

Fair play, I wonder what will be done.
She has my support anyway.

Moro Man

Gigiwagga wrote: »

sorry but the roma family/group lived on our street for the last 5 years approx' I'd see the man there every day going from house to car, kids hanging around the house, he is a Roma as they are, other people coming and going from the house, all Roma, or at least all the same dress code, so I'm assuming.
I once saw him get out of his BMW walk to the open front door of the house where a Roma woman was standing, wife/sister I don't know, and while muttering something, spat, heavily and directly into her face, from a distance of about a foot. Utterly disgusting. He returned to his cool shiny car and drove away. I probably should have intervened but then again I was uncertain as to what I should have done.
Seems to me that many of the Roma women are under the heel of their menfolk, seeing as most of the men seem to do f*** all with themselves. The women do the begging and the stealing, the twat men drive around like lords.

Are you suggesting that they should change their custom/traditions to fit in with 'our' view of the way their lives should be lived?

This is their culture.

Beating women.

Arranged underage marriage, where the grooms family are the ones who have to pay a 'dowry' hence any girl around 12 will be sold off, and if you wonder why the women seem to be doing everything and the men nothing it is because of this where the women have been 'bought' by their husbands' families and by **** are they going to get their moneys worth.

Begging and stealing an honourable profession.


To all you racist card playing politically correct gimps out there, these are the facts of the situation and to be honest the twats who are complaining about Vibes and Scribes are guilty of an even worse racist type offence.

Ye obviously can't differentiate between individual Roma and only see the clothes. Do they all look the same to you?

Is that your problem?

It's not as if a sign was put up saying 'No Roma Welcome'

It's individuals who have been 'allegedly' shoplifting who were photographed. This is done in shops all over the country, White. Black,Asian,African,Eastern European the whole racial spectrum. The only common trait is that they are 'alleged' shoplifters. Very few of these have been convicted in the courts but the shame factor keeps them away. This case has cropped up because the people barred CONTINUED to come in and refused to be barred.

Every business in the city has the right to refuse entry to customers based on previous experiences, but seemingly as long as they are not wearing a 'culturally diverse' outfit according to the PC tosspot brigade

miss_shadow

Are you for real..

corkcomp

miss_shadow wrote: »

Are you for real..

+1.. and thank you for posting that because I was in the middle of typing something but thats all that needs to be said really.. WFT !!!