Lidl.... bargains ? ahem.

Mountainsandh

Just thought I'd share this. I'm French living in Ireland 13 years, so in all that time I've been able to compare on a regular basis prices over there and over here. I still compare prices, and I'm sad to say I buy an large amount of stuff on the internet, since I refuse to pay the enormous price difference in Ireland. I buy Irish only when the service is right, and the price is reasonable.

Anyway, it's easy to compare prices with a site like Lidl, their offers being similar. The French site will ask you for a postal code, try 69100 for example (postcode in Lyon).

Here is the French Lidl :
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg//lidl_fr/hs.xsl/offerdate.htm?offerdate=10137&idcheck=true&ar2=&id=1715&country=FR&zipcode=69100&city=VILLEURBANNE&district=&street=305+Cours+Emile+Zola&ar=5&nf=True
and the Irish on same offers page :
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20100429.index

Barbecue : 129 euros in France, 149.99 euros in Ireland.
barbecue cover : 3.99 in France, 4.99 in Ireland.
portable loo : 44.99 France, 49.99 Ireland.
Led camping lamp : 9.99 in France, 12.99 in Ireland.
A little brush for the bbq : 1.99 in France, 2.99 in Ireland.

It speaks for itself really, and is pretty informative in that you can spot what Lidl thinks Irish customers will be ready to pay for what. My own take on it is that male Irish customers must splash out a lot more than their French counterparts since a lot of the male orientated gear (garden, car equipment, gadgets...) seem to have the biggest price differences. Female purchases like clothes and food have the smallest price difference (usually).
The little diy lamp that you hook in your bonnet for example is 15.99 in Ireland, and I think it was around the 8 or 9.99 mark for French customers.

No shipping/freight expenses can justify the price differences clearly visible on a great number of items on offer each week.

A lot of the items Lidl sells can be got on the internet for a cheaper price, shipping to Ireland included. Worth a bit of forward thinking isn't it ?:D

Btw, I know, taxes and all, but if I'm going to be bitter about it I might as well go the whole hog :
Purchase this bottle of Tequila in France and it will cost you 8.99.
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_fr/hs.xsl/index_10226.htm
Purchase it in Ireland for 22.39.
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20107600.p.Silver_Tequila
Sorry .
Wouldn't want to spill your glass in Ireland.

That's not much use to people in Ireland though is it?

We can hardly do our weekly shopping in France.

Lidl and Aldi are as cheap as it gets here, unless you live near the North.

Mountainsandh

You're right, you can not do your shopping in France. You can shop online though, if you have access to the internet which most of us have.
It's easy to educate yourself as a customer, and exercise your right to buy at the price you think is right, not the price an Irish retailer blackmails you into paying.
I called into a few shops around my area to buy an electric coffee maker. Tesco were offering a cheap, poor quality unbranded one that I didn't want. Irish retailers in my town had their first choice coffee makers starting at 39.99.
I just purchased a Philips one with all the (better) specs I wanted from a French website for 37 euros shipping included. What a pity. I would rather give my 37 euros to an Irish retailer, and I definitely will the day the prices are reasonable.
In the meantime I will not feed into the rip off system.

Mountainsandh

Mountainsandh wrote: »

You're right, you can not do your shopping in France. You can shop online though, if you have access to the internet which most of us have.
It's easy to educate yourself as a customer, and exercise your right to buy at the price you think is right, not the price an Irish retailer blackmails you into paying.
I called into a few shops around my area to buy an electric coffee maker. Tesco were offering a cheap, poor quality unbranded one that I didn't want. Irish retailers in my town had their first choice coffee makers starting at 39.99.
I just purchased a Philips one with all the (better) specs I wanted from a French website for 37 euros shipping included. What a pity. I would rather give my 37 euros to an Irish retailer, and I definitely will the day the prices are reasonable.
In the meantime I will not feed into the rip off system.

And what about postage?

Is it free from France? Hardly I'd imagine.

I shop from Amazon all the time, free postage when you spend over £25

Bluetonic

Mountainsandh wrote: »

It's easy to educate yourself as a customer, and exercise your right to buy at the price you think is right, not the price an Irish retailer blackmails you into paying.

You give an example of a bottle of Tequila.

Do you even know why there is such a large difference? It's nothing to do with the retailer blackmailing the Irish citizen.

Do a little research and educate yourself as a consumer.

Mountainsandh

I did say I know, taxes and all... don't need to know the detail, as regards alcohol, I would always expect a big price difference. This is more than twice its price though. Anyway, alcohol not my focus here.

Mountainsandh

Rarnes, the site I am using charges 5 euros of handling charges whatever the item, then it's free delivery for French customers, for customers in Europe it is a percentage of the total purchase. In my case it was something like 2.09 euros. So it's 7 euros "shipping" altogether, on top of 29.99 for the coffee maker.

Bugnug

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Just thought I'd share this. I'm French living in Ireland 13 years, so in all that time I've been able to compare on a regular basis prices over there and over here. I still compare prices, and I'm sad to say I buy an large amount of stuff on the internet, since I refuse to pay the enormous price difference in Ireland. I buy Irish only when the service is right, and the price is reasonable.

Anyway, it's easy to compare prices with a site like Lidl, their offers being similar. The French site will ask you for a postal code, try 69100 for example (postcode in Lyon).

Here is the French Lidl :
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg//lidl_fr/hs.xsl/offerdate.htm?offerdate=10137&idcheck=true&ar2=&id=1715&country=FR&zipcode=69100&city=VILLEURBANNE&district=&street=305+Cours+Emile+Zola&ar=5&nf=True
and the Irish on same offers page :
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20100429.index

Barbecue : 129 euros in France, 149.99 euros in Ireland.
barbecue cover : 3.99 in France, 4.99 in Ireland.
portable loo : 44.99 France, 49.99 Ireland.
Led camping lamp : 9.99 in France, 12.99 in Ireland.
A little brush for the bbq : 1.99 in France, 2.99 in Ireland.

It speaks for itself really, and is pretty informative in that you can spot what Lidl thinks Irish customers will be ready to pay for what. My own take on it is that male Irish customers must splash out a lot more than their French counterparts since a lot of the male orientated gear (garden, car equipment, gadgets...) seem to have the biggest price differences. Female purchases like clothes and food have the smallest price difference (usually).
The little diy lamp that you hook in your bonnet for example is 15.99 in Ireland, and I think it was around the 8 or 9.99 mark for French customers.

No shipping/freight expenses can justify the price differences clearly visible on a great number of items on offer each week.

A lot of the items Lidl sells can be got on the internet for a cheaper price, shipping to Ireland included. Worth a bit of forward thinking isn't it ?:D

Btw, I know, taxes and all, but if I'm going to be bitter about it I might as well go the whole hog :
Purchase this bottle of Tequila in France and it will cost you 8.99.
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_fr/hs.xsl/index_10226.htm
Purchase it in Ireland for 22.39.
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20107600.p.Silver_Tequila
Sorry .
Wouldn't want to spill your glass in Ireland.

Why dont you head of home then it would make your life so much easier. See ya:)

Bluetonic

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Anyway, alcohol not my focus here.

Why use it as an example then?

Again work out the tax and duty and let us know the true difference. Then factor in rents and staff rates in Ireland v France. Then factor in scales of economy for distribution by road in main land Europe v to an island on the west of Europe, etc...,

Mountainsandh

@bugnug : hmmm ... didn't move in to Ireland for people like you, did move in here for the thousands of others, and dozens other reasons why I think this is a great country. And I'm here to stay, actually. Do you like your country warts and all ? Well then, anybody else likely to be the same ?

Hey, it's fair enough if you're very happy paying your prices, you don't need to look at those sites I mentioned, in fact, you don't need to look at my posts at all .

ozt9vdujny3srf

Mountainsandh wrote: »

hmmm ... didn't move in to Ireland for people like you, did move in here for the thousands of others, and dozens other reasons why I think this is a great country. And I'm here to stay, actually. Do you like your country warts and all ? Well then, anybody else likely to be the same ?

Hey, it's fair enough if you're very happy paying your prices, you don't need to look at those sites I mentioned, in fact, you don't need to look at my posts at all .

I don't think it's fair to call Lidl Ireland a rip off, because in relation to the rest of the Irish market they are good value. It also isn't fair to compare bricks and mortar prices to online prices - they are a different service.

Mountainsandh

Bluetonic, I am aware of freight, rent, staff wages differences, if not very well informed. I don't think these can justify such price differences, and this is only one example, among so many others.
As a customer I don't think this should be my concern tbh. I shop around, compare prices, and decide where I want to buy. My money is there for the taking if I decide a retailer is offering a good enough deal.

If premises and staff are a humongous impediment to lower prices in Ireland, then retailers should aim to reduce expense in that regard, and set up more online sites, for example. That's there, that's available. Issues with delivery can be dealt with.
I did buy a laptop here, to an online Irish site, for a very competitive price, and delivered to my door (for a cheap delivery price).

Will buy again preferably from Irish retailers, if they are clever enough to come up with solutions to the current situation.

Pacing Mule

/sighs

Tequila in France - 30% of the retail price is tax. Base price around €6.29
In Ireland just shy of 70% of that retail price is tax. Base price around €6.75.

The cost of doing business in Ireland in terms of higher vat rates, rent, min wages and the extra transport costs for a retailer like Lidl getting stock to here means their cost prices here are higher and consequently retail prices are too.

I really wish that people would think before posting these things.

Mountainsandh

Truckle, I do think it is fair to compare.
To say that the internet offers a different service, and that Lidl offers some of the best prices in Ireland, is totally true.
However, that's sort of placing Ireland in a little bubble, comfortable for retailers, but not in the customer's best interest.
Ireland is now part of Europe, and access to the internet is widely available.
Therefore from a customer's point of view, it is absolutely relevant to compare prices in this way.
Customers might decide (like me) to switch to a slightly different kind of service, offering the same goods, and buy online.
And if you view prices in an Irish perspective only, thinking well, Lidl are the cheapest here, so it's not a rip-off, this is akin to saying : "ok, I just paid 100 euros for my new pair of runners, this is not a rip off, even though I can get them for 60 in France/US". I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense to me.

borderlinemeath

Online shopping and store shopping are vastly different businesses and comparing the two is not comparing apples to apples.

I really don't see the likes of Lidl and Aldi opening an online business for the few customers that want to receive their groceries a couple of days after they actually wanted them.

While you say you know about the cost difference, we don't so to have a valid debate about it why don't you tell us what the minimum wage is in France? Also is there double time/supplement for Sundays/BHols? And isn't there a 35hr week in France?
How much is insurance for a business/premises/warehouse storage?

What about taxation? The only thing I heard recently that restaurants in France had their VAT rates slashed to 5% to encourage people to eat out and get the hospitality industry moving again?
Is there a PRSI equivelent and levies?

Mountainsandh

Pageant Messiah, as I said, I am aware costs are higher in Ireland.
So I should take it for granted that a 20 euro, 10 euro, 5 euro, or 1 or 2 euro price difference on smaller items is simply going to cover all these higher costs. On dozens of products.
Do you have the details ?
I don't either.
So I have a choice : trust that these people are not ripping me off and that the money does indeed just about cover the higher costs, or buy elsewhere.
It's not always the case, but I find that I often can source the same or similar items for cheaper online, or in promotions elsewhere.

This is what my initial post was about, some people might have thought they were making a wonderful bargain in Lidl, and might find that the same item is cheaper in an other retailer or online.

Mountainsandh

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Online shopping and store shopping are vastly different businesses and comparing the two is not comparing apples to apples.

I really don't see the likes of Lidl and Aldi opening an online business for the few customers that want to receive their groceries a couple of days after they actually wanted them.

While you say you know about the cost difference, we don't so to have a valid debate about it why don't you tell us what the minimum wage is in France? Also is there double time/supplement for Sundays/BHols? And isn't there a 35hr week in France?
How much is insurance for a business/premises/warehouse storage?

What about taxation? The only thing I heard recently that restaurants in France had their VAT rates slashed to 5% to encourage people to eat out and get the hospitality industry moving again?
Is there a PRSI equivelent and levies?

Haven't a clue about the tax and levies in France at the moment, or the minimum wage .
This is the usual pattern in Ireland : excuses, find out about this, find out about that.
I'm not buying
Here is the bottom line : I am the one who's going to spend my money (or not) in Ireland. I am able to go on the internet and find out about prices abroad, more specifically in Europe.
If you are a retailer, and you want my business, you will have to find a way to convince me I am paying the right price for something, and at the moment you are not. (you being a hypothetical retailer). It's your business to know about levies and taxes and wages, not mine. All I see is the good I'm willing to buy, the price you are asking, and the price that is being asked elsewhere, Europe and the world included.

Online sites are an alternative I, as one customer among others, am willing to consider. I'm sure you (hypothetical retailer) can come up with other inventive ideas to offer more competitive prices.
Off you go so, I really hope you come up with something, because I'd love to spend my money here.

I do buy groceries online from Tesco by the way, great service and great value.

borderlinemeath

It is definately down to taxation in France.
The same barbeque in question is €149 on the German Lidl website. The home of Lidl!
End of arguement about Lidl being a rip off.

This article is order immediatelyWe deliver it from 26.04. out.

FLORA BEST stainless steel gas grill cart

• FLORA BEST stainless steel gas grill cart
  • € 149.00

chriscross1

lidl and aldi are mighty, they beat super valu anyday pricewise.

borderlinemeath

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Haven't a clue about the tax and levies in France at the moment, or the minimum wage .
This is the usual pattern in Ireland : excuses, find out about this, find out about that.

I asked because you are the one claiming it's cheaper and as you say you are French. I don't speak the language nor would know what government website to check to validate YOUR argument.

I'm not buying

Have you ever heard of the Irish term "Skinflint"?:rolleyes:

If you are a retailer, and you want my business, you will have to find a way to convince me I am paying the right price for something, and at the moment you are not. (you being a hypothetical retailer).

I am a retailer and you are the worst type of customer


Off you go so, I really hope you come up with something, because I'd love to spend my money here.

I did, France is cheaper than the home country of the discount retailer.
Lets all move to France and leave you here enjoying the high prices.

Euro_Kraut

The fact that LIDL might charge a little less in France is indicative of the costs in Ireland generally.

LIDL however do provide some of the best value in Ireland when compared to other stores operating here.

I cannot accept the OPs argument that this show LIDL is 'a Rip Off'. It may show that Ireland in general is a rip off in terms of higher VAT etc, but really we have known that for quite some time now.

Euro_Kraut

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I asked because you are the one claiming it's cheaper and as you say you are French. I don't speak the language nor would know what government website to check to validate YOUR argument.

French VAT is 19.6%.

Here are 2 webiste in English about it: http://www.uscib.org/index.asp?documentID=1676

and

http://www.economywatch.com/business-and-economy/france.html

A google of 'French VAT' did the trick

Goldenquick

Bugnug wrote: »

Why dont you head of home then it would make your life so much easier. See ya:)

How rude! An example of our Cead Mile Failte?

The very same thing used to be said to me when I lived in UK by an ignorant few. :rolleyes:

As far as I can see the OP was simply making us aware that Lidl prices are cheaper in France, we do the same thing ourselves, comparing prices in Northern Ireland and in the Republic all the time.

Andrew33

rarnes1 wrote: »

That's not much use to people in Ireland though is it?

We can hardly do our weekly shopping in France.

Lidl and Aldi are as cheap as it gets here, unless you live near the North.

Not always the cheapest anymore! Still worth shopping around for stuff. Aldi are advertising a wind up torch at the mo for €6.99. Identical torch in Homestore & More is €3.99. Bag of rice is cheaper in Dunnes than Aldi. Etc, etc, etc.

borderlinemeath

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

French VAT is 19.6%.

Here are 2 webiste in English about it: http://www.uscib.org/index.asp?documentID=1676

and

http://www.economywatch.com/business-and-economy/france.html

A google of 'French VAT' did the trick

But is it that clear cut? Are there levies on certain goods like for example on purchasing a car here you pay VAT and then again in the form of VRT?

Mountainsandh

@borderlinemeath : Goodness, if that is your attitude as a retailer, no wonder you are finding times are tough. The bad news for you is that I am one of many.
If you do head off to France you might want to reconsider your career options to survive, and all the best of luck to you.

I for one have hope for Ireland, I think there are many clever and ressourcefull Irish entrepreneurs, some willing to innovate in retailing amongst other things, and willing to find alternatives and change their approach to the market and new economical situation.

I will be supporting them all the way.

Pacing Mule

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I for one have hope for Ireland, I think there are many clever and ressourcefull Irish entrepreneurs, some willing to innovate in retailing amongst other things, and willing to find alternatives and change their approach to the market and new economical situation.

I will be supporting them all the way.

It's clear from your posts though that you won't be supporting them all the way. You will support them if they can match / better the prices you have found elsewhere and online. That's your right of course as a customer and in particular in these times when money is tight then price is going to be a major factor but the reality is that the vast majority of retailers here can't cut prices any further, are making losses rather than profits yet are still accused of being rip of merchants.

Borderlinemeath perhaps has put the point a bit less tactful than he/she should have but there is nothing more frustrating for a retailer to be accused of being a rip off / engaged in price gouging etc when they are literally doing their best service and providing the cheapest prices possible only for customers to come in and go...

"I can get this for x elsewhere - if you don't match this I'm leaving as you are clearly profiteering etc"

borderlinemeath

Mountainsandh wrote: »

@borderlinemeath : Goodness, if that is your attitude as a retailer, no wonder you are finding times are tough. The bad news for you is that I am one of many.
If you do head off to France you might want to reconsider your career options to survive, and all the best of luck to you.

I for one have hope for Ireland, I think there are many clever and ressourcefull Irish entrepreneurs, some willing to innovate in retailing amongst other things, and willing to find alternatives and change their approach to the market and new economical situation.

I will be supporting them all the way.

You've changed your tune, maybe you should change the thread title.:D

I am a retailer and I am sick to death of "rip off this" and "rip off that" when the person who is claiming that they are ripped off are not dealing with the same store in the same country selling the same branded product or service. It's not a comparable rip off otherwise.
How can you claim something is a rip off when there is €20 difference IN ANOTHER COUNTRY?
Facts are facts. Yes we have a single currency in the Eurozone.
But each country has it's own laws, taxations, levies, stealth taxes, wealth taxes and for the foreseeable future, they always will. So why is is so hard for you to understand that prices vary?

Take the USA as another example. Good old dollar in every state but each state has their own governor and their own state laws and taxes so prices vary. And more annoyingly things are advertised without tax so the additional taxation comes when you go to pay for goods or services.

Yes things cost more here but we have had the argument time and time again. Would I like to see cheaper prices? Yes. But that would mean abolishing the minimum wage and then the dole queues would increase as people cannot afford to live. Taxation would increase to pay the increased volume welfare and prices would rise.

Its far from Utopia living in Ireland at the minute but I get on with it and pay my taxes and buy goods and services locally. I don't travel to the north to buy anything nor do I shop much online although I do use the internet as a comparable pricing tool when I do want to buy anything.

As I have pointed out in my previous post your bbq is the same price in Germany so it is definately down to taxation in your home country of which you claim to know nothing about.

Mountainsandh

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

It's clear from your posts though that you won't be supporting them all the way. You will support them if they can match / better the prices you have found elsewhere and online. That's your right of course as a customer and in particular in these times when money is tight then price is going to be a major factor but the reality is that the vast majority of retailers here can't cut prices any further, are making losses rather than profits yet are still accused of being rip of merchants.

Borderlinemeath perhaps has put the point a bit less tactful than he/she should have but there is nothing more frustrating for a retailer to be accused of being a rip off / engaged in price gouging etc when they are literally doing their best service and providing the cheapest prices possible only for customers to come in and go...

"I can get this for x elsewhere - if you don't match this I'm leaving as you are clearly profiteering etc"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pageant I will support anyone who can justify their prices. I do pay a higher price than I can find online/abroad on some occasions when I think the service offered justifies it. Say for example, kids' shoes. I go to France on a regular basis and could purchase them there, however I've always bought my kids' shoes for a slightly (as in reasonably) higher price here, to a lady who has a great choice, and offers a great service : her shoes are slightly more expensive than they would be in France, but she advises and offers great customer service. She told me herself her shoes come from France and Germany. Now if she manages to offer these shoes here at a price that I think is still reasonable to pay, I don't see why other retailers can't do it.
There are lots of ways in which I can be won over and convinced to buy here, for a reasonable, if higher, price : loyalty schemes and great customer service are two obvious ones.
There is a wonderful Irish section on Etsy Ireland (online) where sellers offer inventive or more traditional Irish crafts for very reasonable prices, and I have found that the customer service was wonderful. Any seller who has signed on to this has shown great initiative, and I buy with pleasure and don't question the prices as much.
One feature of this site is that a customer can post an idea "for tender" if you want. Sellers who think they can deliver the goods may bid on the idea, and if the buyer thinks that will suit, they accept and pay the price offered by seller.
I once heard on that farming program on RTE 2 farmers who had separated from their coop to set up their own local milk processing and delivery initiative (I think the milk may have been unpasteurised). I would be the first to register if such an initiative was started in my area.
It's time for Irish retailers to be inventive.

There is a music shop not far from where I live where the advice you get is second to none, the atmosphere in this somewhat dark and dated premises is welcoming, and you feel you're about to discover a treasure at every turn. Same for little bookshops, with sales assistants that know their business, and are so passionate about their products that I want to visit more often, and spend the money without question.

Mountainsandh

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I am a retailer and I am sick to death of "rip off this" and "rip off that" when the person who is claiming that they are ripped off are not dealing with the same store in the same country selling the same branded product or service. It's not a comparable rip off otherwise.
How can you claim something is a rip off when there is €20 difference IN ANOTHER COUNTRY?
Facts are facts. Yes we have a single currency in the Eurozone.
But each country has it's own laws, taxations, levies, stealth taxes, wealth taxes and for the foreseeable future, they always will. So why is is so hard for you to understand that prices vary?
QUOTE]

Isn't that the whole principle of Europe ? So Ireland should benefit from all that Europe has to offer, but not suffer the consequences ? Part of the European idea is that consumers can shop and compare prices wherever they want.
It's time to get out of your comfort zone.
Different situations, different taxes etc... fair enough.
Did it occur to you that there might be problems French retailers face that you might not, as an Irish retailer ? Is it possible that French retailers had to lower their profit margins too when hard times hit ?

Is it possible that part of the reason why prices are lower in France ( for example, the bbq) is because customers there will simply not buy at all, unless the price is right ?

borderlinemeath

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Isn't that the whole principle of Europe ? So Ireland should benefit from all that Europe has to offer, but not suffer the consequences ? Part of the European idea is that consumers can shop and compare prices wherever they want.
It's time to get out of your comfort zone.

Did it occur to you that there might be problems French retailers face that you might not, as an Irish retailer ? Is it possible that French retailers had to lower their profit margins too when hard times hit ?

Is it possible that part of the reason why prices are lower in France ( for example, the bbq) is because customers there will simply not buy at all, unless the price is right ?

I very much doubt it, the Company I work for distributes worldwide and the prices vary from country to country not just continent to continent.
Local economic factors that dictate price ie taxation, insurance, warehousing, staff costs are what determines price.

France came out of recession last August along with Germany and the economy has been growing, albeit slowly since then. Consumer confidence in France is much higher than in Ireland/UK as statistics show personal debt is much lower in France. So I do not believe that French retailers are as hard hit as others.

And as for Irish Retailers being in a comfort zone?:eek: Seriously, if you think this then you are even more naive than you come across in some of your previous posts.

Pacing Mule

Mountainsandh wrote: »

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pageant I will support anyone who can justify their prices.

Lidl the subject of your post can justify those prices. Will you now support them ?

borderlinemeath

Take a walk down any main street in any town in Ireland or any shopping centre for that matter and tell me that retailers are in a comfort zone. :mad:

Half the shops are vacant due to the recession. The family run shop next door to me closed its two branches and went into liquidation because it could not compete with both the north and internet shopping.
All the family members involved took out personal loans last year to try and keep the business afloat and keep the staff in their jobs but to no avail and have now lost their livelyhood and are in huge personal debt.
They did everything in their power not to go under but just couldn't compete.

Thats just a small example. What about Hughes & Hughes? Or Sasha? Or Adams childrens clothes? All gone and hundreds of jobs lost and you still think retailers are in a comfort zone.

Just think about what you are saying before making a sweeping statement like that again.

Mountainsandh

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Lidl the subject of your post can justify those prices. Will you now support them ?

Really ? I'm none the wiser tbh. Do you know exactly what their profit margin is on these items ? what their profit is for Ireland compared to say, their French profit ?
As a global outfit, shouldn't they be able to balance their profits overall ? As in, like borderline was saying, possibly consumer confidence being higher in France, more sales over there, balancing out more expense over here ?
Do some global companies work that way ?
Save on expenses somewhere in the world, to offer better prices elsewhere ?
Like, use manpower in one country to save, and continue to sell for competitive prices in another ?

etchyed

Bugnug wrote: »

Why dont you head of home then it would make your life so much easier. See ya:)

Wow, just 8 posts in and this happened. I'm so proud.:rolleyes:

Why does everyone here assume the OP isn't fully aware of the reasons why things are more expensive in Ireland? Obviously he/she is and chooses to shop online because of it. The more people shop online the more costs will have to come down in Ireland in order to compete. That's common sense and the responses to this thread have been quite bizarre.

And Bluetonic, the Tequila was tacked on to the end of the OP's post after several other valid points.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Btw, I know, taxes and all, but if I'm going to be bitter about it I might as well go the whole hog

Clearly Mountainsandh was fully aware of the facetiousness of this point yet you chose to jump all over it like he/she was an idiot.

Pacing Mule

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Really ? I'm none the wiser tbh. Do you know exactly what their profit margin is on these items ? what their profit is for Ireland compared to say, their French profit ?

None the wiser ??? Are you for real. Read the thread. You started off giving out about prices in Lidl here versus France. You zoned in on alcohol prices. Many posters here have explained to you why the prices here are higher. It's a fact that excise duties are treble here what they are in France. It's a fact that Vat rates are higher. It's a fact that the minimum wage and average wage rates here are higher. It is also a fact that property prices here have been higher than in France (bear in mind that retailers are tied in to leases from well before things went pear shaped) Following on from that every single service provider to Lidl here - be it security, cleaning, maintenance contractors etc are working from the same higher base cost of doing business which means they have to charge more than the equivilent service provider elsewhere.

These are all verifiable without needing to know the specifics of exactly what margin / profit Lidl make here. How can you be none the wiser ??

Mountainsandh wrote: »

As a global outfit, shouldn't they be able to balance their profits overall ? As in, like borderline was saying, possibly consumer confidence being higher in France, more sales over there, balancing out more expense over here ?
Do some global companies work that way ?
Save on expenses somewhere in the world, to offer better prices elsewhere ?
Like, use manpower in one country to save, and continue to sell for competitive prices in another ?

Right so effectively you are saying they should make less profit here or even loss lead and lose money here which can be offset against profits elsewhere ?

Interesting point because that is indeed what a lot of the multiple retailers are doing - and by doing this give you the impression that all the other independent and homegrown retailers are ripping you off with higher prices compared to those companies big enough to offset prices here.

All you are interested in is the bottom line price - which as I said earlier is your right as a consumer but the more smaller shops / chains are wiped out by this practice the worse it will get in the long term when the lack of competition will drive prices up to levels beyond what they would have been at without the loss leading.

Every shopping centre and high street has seen multiple units close and remain boarded up over the past couple of years. If retailers were making the kind of profits you seem to think they are they would not have closed or would have been replaced straight away.

Your viewpoint to me is very short sighted.

Pacing Mule

etchyed wrote: »

The more people shop online the more costs will have to come down in Ireland in order to compete. That's common sense and the responses to this thread have been quite bizarre.

The vast majority of retailers have cut costs and prices to the bone and still are in trouble. Those who haven't have enough money behind them not to need to and realistically only applies to huge multiples.

The easiest and quickest cost to cut is labour - so along with the businesses closing down there are people on the dole because their job was lost trying to cut staffing costs to cut prices.

Excellent stuff for the short sighted who see prices coming down but what happens is that the government has to cut services too and taxes need to be raised to pay for those who have lost their jobs. That's been borne out in pension levies and income levies of recent times. Look at the bigger picture and you will start to realise that a stampede of "cost cutting" is actually going to leave every one of us with less money in our pockets.

I'm not saying that prices didn't need to come down, there were excessive margins and profits being made by some businesses but at this point it has gone too far.

kaymin

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

These are all verifiable without needing to know the specifics of exactly what margin / profit Lidl make here. How can you be none the wiser ??

Yes, they're all verifiable but you still need to know the margin - how else can you assess whether we're being ripped off. You have just got to look at how high the margins are that Tesco is estimated to achieve here compared to elsewhere to see that Irish people are still being ripped off. And Tesco prices are among the lowest.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tescos-8364260m-profit-from-irish-sales-2145228.html

I also appreciate Tesco is also ripping off their suppliers.

kaymin

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

The vast majority of retailers have cut costs and prices to the bone and still are in trouble. Those who haven't have enough money behind them not to need to and realistically only applies to huge multiples.

The easiest and quickest cost to cut is labour - so along with the businesses closing down there are people on the dole because their job was lost trying to cut staffing costs to cut prices.

Excellent stuff for the short sighted who see prices coming down but what happens is that the government has to cut services too and taxes need to be raised to pay for those who have lost their jobs. That's been borne out in pension levies and income levies of recent times. Look at the bigger picture and you will start to realise that a stampede of "cost cutting" is actually going to leave every one of us with less money in our pockets.

I'm not saying that prices didn't need to come down, there were excessive margins and profits being made by some businesses but at this point it has gone too far.

If the job can be done with fewer people then that's what must happen in order to become more competitive at a local and international level. To suggest we should pay high wages or employ more people just so people have more money to spend is a recipe for inflation if there's no productivity improvements to back it up. It will make Ireland uncompetitive and will reduce employment in Irish companies that export (because Irish produce is too costly to make). It is your argument that is short-sighted in my view.

etchyed

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

You zoned in on alcohol prices.

No, he didn't. Please read my post

Pageant Messiah wrote:

I'm not saying that prices didn't need to come down, there were excessive margins and profits being made by some businesses but at this point it has gone too far.

Not far enough for the OP and for some products not far enough for me. Those who have the time (and time is less valuable for the unemployed/low paid) will shop around for the best deal, be it online or in bricks and mortar stores. I simply can't afford some Irish prices. If I can't afford to buy things in the country where I'm paid that's not exactly sustainable either.

Putting morals aside, people will go where they can get the best deal. That's the reality of it. As far as I'm concerned, the OP was fully aware of the reasons for Lidl in Ireland being more expensive before everyone here "enlightened" him. You should be allowed to compare prices without a load of people jumping down your throat.

Pacing Mule

etchyed wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, the OP was fully aware of the reasons for Lidl in Ireland being more expensive before everyone here "enlightened" him. You should be allowed to compare prices without a load of people jumping down your throat.

Compare prices = By all means yes
Post it in a rip off forum and label it a rip off when it clearly isn't = NO

borderlinemeath

kaymin wrote: »

If the job can be done with fewer people then that's what must happen in order to become more competitive at a local and international level. To suggest we should pay high wages or employ more people just so people have more money to spend is a recipe for inflation if there's no productivity improvements to back it up. It will make Ireland uncompetitive and will reduce employment in Irish companies that export (because Irish produce is too costly to make). It is your argument that is short-sighted in my view.

Why don't you try working in retail and see what a bed of roses it is?

Staffing has been cut at every level from shop floor to distribution and also cleaning and services.

So I come in an hour or two early (unpaid) so I get to clean the shop before I take in the huge delivery (because the frequency has decreased due to costs) and then I get to deal with customers who are complaining that there are no staff available to help them.
Then there are the ones like the OP who feel that they are being ripped off at every turn and we are making a huge profit out of him and complain and haggle to try and get a reduced price.
It's demoralising and draining and is very short sighted of You to think that increased productivity is achieved by cutting staffing.

And there are no high wages in retail. We're not the banks you know.:rolleyes:

Pacing Mule

kaymin wrote: »

If the job can be done with fewer people then that's what must happen in order to become more competitive at a local and international level. To suggest we should pay high wages or employ more people just so people have more money to spend is a recipe for inflation if there's no productivity improvements to back it up. It will make Ireland uncompetitive and will reduce employment in Irish companies that export (because Irish produce is too costly to make). It is your argument that is short-sighted in my view.

I would not suggest at all that we should pay higher wages and employ more people that aren't needed as being an ideal model. I have consistently said for years that the wage rates in Ireland were contributing to a vicious circle of inflation. It should have been tackled long ago but that's an argument for a different day / thread.

At this time smaller retailers have been forced to let go staff not as an efficiency excercise but to let go staff and cut service levels. Be that cleaning or staff on tills, staff to replenish stock during the day, management in most retailers being cut in numbers by 25% - the kind of cuts being made now are short term stop gaps that can't be maintained in the long run. In the mean time though the state is paying dole money, health board supplements, rent allowances etc.

The staff themselves who are left are over worked, have had wage cuts forced onto them in some cases and who in all cases have had taxation increases can't afford to repay loans and mortgages putting the banks uder pressure and requiring billions more in government intervention that we can't afford either.

It really has gone too far and is becoming a burden to not just the state but to each individual in the country who is paying for it by taxation increases. I would prefer the prices to have dropped a reasonable amount, employment to be maintained and taxes not rising becuase we would all have been far better off.

Pacing Mule

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Why don't you try working in retail and see what a bed of roses it is?

Staffing has been cut at every level from shop floor to distribution and also cleaning and services.

So I come in an hour or two early (unpaid) so I get to clean the shop before I take in the huge delivery (because the frequency has decreased due to costs) and then I get to deal with customers who are complaining that there are no staff available to help them.
Then there are the ones like the OP who feel that they are being ripped off at every turn and we are making a huge profit out of him and complain and haggle to try and get a reduced price.
It's demoralising and draining and is very short sighted of You to think that increased productivity is achieved by cutting staffing.

And there are no high wages in retail. We're not the banks you know.:rolleyes:

The same story is mirrored across the retail sector.

looksee

You know, Mountainsandh, if you hadn't mentioned you were French most of those reply posts would have been agreeing with you. You are a blow-in, you will always be a blow-in and on that basis you mustn't criticise

Mountainsandh

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

These are all verifiable without needing to know the specifics of exactly what margin / profit Lidl make here. How can you be none the wiser ??
QUOTE]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am none the wiser simply because I do not know what proportion of the extra 20 euros I should pay for an item goes to covering higher costs.

If I buy something in Lidl here, for an extra 20 euros (compared to the French price), can you tell me ? How much goes towards covering higher costs ?
Remember we're not talking about just one item. Other items are 1 euro dearer, 5 euros, etc...
So, I'm paying 20 euros more than a French person would.
How much of the 20 euros goes towards paying the cleaner's wages exactly ? And the rent ? and the taxes ? Do you know ?
Out of these 20 euros, would 18 euros have covered the higher cost ?
15 euros ?
10 euros ?
less ?
So no, I'm none the wiser.
There are people in Lidl who adjust prices according to their own agenda, might very well be super honest, hand on heart, just covering costs. Or it might not.
It might just be that they're setting the prices that they think Irish people are willing to pay for an item, thereby covering costs, and making a profit. Does that seem reasonable ?
And so the point of my original post was to show Irish people : hey, look, this is actually a lot dearer than what you are asked to pay. People can make up their own minds. If you think 20 euros extra sounds reasonable because of the higher costs here, good for you.
It may be that the Lidl people are very very honest, just covering their costs.
But I don't know that for sure.

Pacing Mule

looksee wrote: »

You know, Mountainsandh, if you hadn't mentioned you were French most of those reply posts would have been agreeing with you. You are a blow-in, you will always be a blow-in and on that basis you mustn't criticise

I would like to say at this point I don't case where the OP is from my response would be the same.

heathersonline

Mountainsandh, Out of interest, would you care to share the French site you referred to in your first post?

borderlinemeath

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

I would like to say at this point I don't case where the OP is from my response would be the same.

+1.
The OP may be French but he claims to know little about taxation and costs in his home country.

Pacing Mule

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I am none the wiser simply because I do not know what proportion of the extra 20 euros I should pay for an item goes to covering higher costs.

If I buy something in Lidl here, for an extra 20 euros (compared to the French price), can you tell me ? How much goes towards covering higher costs ?
Remember we're not talking about just one item. Other items are 1 euro dearer, 5 euros, etc...
So, I'm paying 20 euros more than a French person would.
How much of the 20 euros goes towards paying the cleaner's wages exactly ? And the rent ? and the taxes ? Do you know ?
Out of these 20 euros, would 18 euros have covered the higher cost ?
15 euros ?
10 euros ?
less ?
So no, I'm none the wiser.
There are people in Lidl who adjust prices according to their own agenda, might very well be super honest, hand on heart, just covering costs. Or it might not.
It might just be that they're setting the prices that they think Irish people are willing to pay for an item, thereby covering costs, and making a profit. Does that seem reasonable ?
And so the point of my original post was to show Irish people : hey, look, this is actually a lot dearer than what you are asked to pay. People can make up their own minds. If you think 20 euros extra sounds reasonable because of the higher costs here, good for you.
It may be that the Lidl people are very very honest, just covering their costs.
But I don't know that for sure.

None the wiser is defined as knowing no more than before. You have posted a difference of €20 on a product sold for €149 here. I can't give you an exact percentage margin that Lidl male here in Ireland versus France on that item. I don't own or manage Lidl and am unable to. But what I can do is show a large range of factors that would drive that price up. If you are still none the wiser then you are ignoring this information. I would say you should have quite a bit more knowledge than you had before posting the thread.

Mountainsandh

looksee wrote: »

You know, Mountainsandh, if you hadn't mentioned you were French most of those reply posts would have been agreeing with you. You are a blow-in, you will always be a blow-in and on that basis you mustn't criticise

Thanks Looksee, I only got 2 "go home", not doing too badly .

Interesting that retailers are the ones haunting the "rip off Ireland" thread, isn't it ?