THE "WHY BUY IN THE UK?" CHALLENGE!

-Chris-

We've had the circular arguments repeatedly over the last while over whether it's cheaper to buy in the UK or in Ireland, so I've decided it's time to do the exercise, all the way to the nth degree, and see what the real difference is...


The challenge is this: Based on the constraints below, together we figure out how much a car will cost to purchase here, versus in the UK.


The new car we're buying is the following:
BMW 520D SE Manual - €41,750
Delivery - €850
Metallic Paint - €947.53
Sports Multifunction Steeringwheel - €162.87


The same car from the UK
BMW 520D SE Manual - £28,045
Delivery - €incl
Metallic Paint - £640
Sports Multifunction Steeringwheel - £110



If there are any optional extras required to bring either car up to spec, please let us know - we want the cars to be exactly like-for-like.

If we're presuming discount off a car, let's try and base it on experience rather than "I bet I'd get ten grand off that car because I'm such a kickass negotiator".



This is the car we own. We owe nothing on it:
http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/318i-SE/201015197648041/advert?channel=CARS

We'll either need to trade it in with the ROI dealer, trade it in with the UK dealer or sell it privately (if it's worth the hassle).

Maybe the trade lads can help with trade pricing on it, I'd say we'll reach a private sale price by consensus.


We won't be borrowing anything, we have the cash in the bank and will be paying in full by bank draft


We will be travelling to the UK by air, and returning by ferry. We'll be staying overnight for one night, single person, in a Travelodge or similar.



The exchange rate can be the XE.com exchange rate, but it would be preferable to know what the bank commission on the currency conversion is, and we should figure in the cost of the draft if we want to be super anal.


Right so, who wants to take the first stab at the figures or ask the first question??

-Chris-

A couple of modnotes:

Both cars will be fully VRT'd. The cars will be completely legal.

This thread is only for the discussion of this particular transaction/comparison. I don't want it going miles off-topic.

Further to that, this is not the thread for ranting about VRT and whether it's legal or not, or whether it's fair or not.

This is also not the thread for comparison of service levels (in so far as possible), this is about the maths of the transaction. There will be no discussion of "main stealers", "rip-off merchants" etc. etc.

TomMc

Without wishing to rain on your parade:D, the buy in the UK argument is on the most part related to used cars. If you have a trade-in it is a problem if you cannot sell privately, but not all Irish dealers will take trade-ins unless at a fairly rubbish offer, so that is no longer as major an issue as it was in the past.

The other reason people buy in the UK is down to choice. The Irish new car market is so conservative, that many cars are simply not available here on the used market. If they are, used examples tend to be few and far between, in the wrong spec and overpriced. Not everyone is a conformists buying the same old, same old all the time.

-Chris-

TomMc wrote: »

Without wishing to rain on your parade:D, the buy in the UK argument is on the most part related to used cars. If you have a trade-in it is a problem if you cannot sell privately, but not all Irish dealers will take trade-ins unless at a fairly rubbish offer, so that is no longer as major an issue as it was in the past.

The other reason people buy in the UK is down to choice. The Irish new car market is so conservative, that many cars are simply not available here on the used market. If they are, used examples tend to be few and far between, in the wrong spec and overpriced. Not everyone is a conformists buying the same old, same old all the time.

That may be, but if we're looking at second-hand cars it introduces a bit more ambiguousness (is that a real word?) into the proceedings, and most people buying a new car the size of a 5-Series already own a car which they'll have to dispose of themselves.

CharlieCroker

taking the weekend after the bank holiday as example:

Flights: DUB to Stansted Friday 7th May €63.37

Accom: Travel Lodge Stansted: £29stg (€33.50)

Nearest Dealer: Elms Stansted (2 miles), taxi £5stg (€6)

Stansted to Holyhead = 297 miles @ 47mpg (parkers.co.uk) = 6.32 Gallons
6.32 gallons = 28.75 litres@ 120.9p/litre (petrol prices.com) = £35GB on fuel (€41)

M6 Toll: £4.50stg (€5.50)

Ferry from Holyhead to Dublin: Irish Ferries Swift 8th May- €119

+€60 for food etc

Gives a total of €330 roughly to get over there, collect the car and come home again

Owen

Just to roughly work out the landed price of the UK car ...

UK Price is 28795, devatted ends up being £24,506.38 Sterling. Convert that to Euro using Xe.com (And add on a few hundred euro bearing in mind XE only shows the rate, and not what you can actually buy money for) - €28,154.55.

So, the VRT on that is €5944, bringing us to €34,098.55, and then add on 21% VAT - €41,259.24, not including travel or fuel to get it home, and a day off work to go to the VRO. For the purpose of this thread, it's safe to assume that the airfare/hotel/diesel/ferry/day off work would roughly work out to the straight sale discount in the UK - the brits don't give as much discount as here on straight sales.

So - Irish price €43, 710.4 - and if you negotiate properly you'll get 1500 off, bringing it to €42,210.4 vs UK price - € 41,259.24 - difference of roughly 1k.

Or I could have messed up calculations somewhere along the line.

TomMc

The challenge is something of a red herring. If you have a trade-in worth 15k it simply will not work. Any savings buying in the UK by selling the used car here privately first, would still result in minimal benefit for the hassle and paperwork involved.

Major cost savings (thousands, not hundreds) on cars is by and large based around depreciation, which only applies to used ones.

-Chris-

TomMc wrote: »

The challenge is something of a red herring. If you have a trade-in worth 15k it simply will not work. Any savings buying in the UK by selling the used car here privately first, would still result in minimal benefit for the hassle and paperwork involved.

Major cost savings (thousands, not hundreds) on cars is by and large based around depreciation, which only applies to used ones.

Start your own thread then. No harm in doing both sets of sums.

CharlieCroker

PaintDoctor wrote: »

So, the VRT on that is €5944, bringing us to €34,098.55, and then add on 21% VAT - €41,259.24, .

VAT is added to the Pre VRT price. So €28154 + 21% and then add the €5944VRT gives a figure of €40011.01

Owen

Thanks Charlie, still not awake.

merchant08

Price shouldnt be your only concern, what about the service, so much better over there.


Anyway VRT is an illegal tax and its also unfair, even the EY said it

-Chris-

merchant08 wrote: »

Price shouldnt be your only concern, what about the service, so much better over there.


Anyway VRT is an illegal tax and its also unfair, even the EY said it

READ POST 2.

:rolleyes:

Erren Music

Originally Posted by Padraig Mor
And for the early adopter importers: go to Coast2coastcars.co.uk and you can bring in your new 520d manual for approx €37500 or auto for €39500. Travelling expenses (or Irish discount) not included obviously.

daveharnett

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Nearest Dealer: Elms Stansted (2 miles), taxi £5stg (€6)

Stansted to Holyhead = 297 miles @ 47mpg (parkers.co.uk) = 6.32 Gallons
6.32 gallons = 28.75 litres@ 120.9p/litre (petrol prices.com) = £35GB on fuel (€41)

I think it's probably fair to assume that the dealer will include a lift from the airport and a tank of diesel free of charge :pac:

Erren Music

daveharnett wrote: »

I think it's probably fair to assume that the dealer will include a lift from the airport and a tank of diesel free of charge :pac:

They may even deliver it to holyhead for you

CharlieCroker

was going with no assumtions. you can assume the dealer will let you ride his wife too but until you get there, your not going to know!!

-Chris-

Erren Music wrote: »

Originally Posted by Padraig Mor
And for the early adopter importers: go to Coast2coastcars.co.uk and you can bring in your new 520d manual for approx €37500 or auto for €39500. Travelling expenses (or Irish discount) not included obviously.

Can you break down those figures for us or provide some of your own?

-Chris-

CharlieCroker wrote: »

was going with no assumtions. you can assume the dealer will let you ride his wife too but until you get there, your not going to know!!

+1, we should keep this within solid facts and cold, hard figures.

If you know of a BMW dealer who will definitely guarantee to deliver every car to Holyhead, then let's bring that into play, otherwise it just depends on how good of a negotiator you are and that's not something we can really account for.

ianobrien

Erren Music wrote: »

They may even deliver it to holyhead for you

A family member bought a new vehicle in the UK a few years ago (not a car mind, but not available here). The Dealer delivered the car to Fishguard, and IIRC they said they had to (I think Insurance was the issue)

Also, the ferry company had to have a registration number for the vehicle before letting it on, so out came the cardboard and the marker......

veetwin

TomMc wrote: »

The challenge is something of a red herring. If you have a trade-in worth 15k it simply will not work. Any savings buying in the UK by selling the used car here privately first, would still result in minimal benefit for the hassle and paperwork involved.

Major cost savings (thousands, not hundreds) on cars is by and large based around depreciation, which only applies to used ones.

I agree and disagree. I was in a similar position a few months ago with a 16K car to dispose of. I used the simple strategy of pricing the car on carzone lower than all equivalents even though it was in better condition and lower mileage than the rest. I advertised for 16.5K and got 16K after 6 weeks. The reasoning was that whatever I got for it was more that I would be offered on a trade in i.e. 13.5K.

I agree that the value is to be had second hand. I bought a 9 month old 520D Touring Auto with 7K miles, leather, bluetooth, sat nav and a few more bits and pieces. I think buying a manual with cloth seats and low spec is madness. (don't know if the new version has leather as standard). All told inc VRT and travel I got the car for 34.5K (approx 10K less than the asking price for similar cars from mail dealers here. Travel costs were around €250 but I was able to go over and back the same day.

dergside

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Just to roughly work out the landed price of the UK car ...

UK Price is 28795, devatted ends up being £24,506.38 Sterling. Convert that to Euro using Xe.com (And add on a few hundred euro bearing in mind XE only shows the rate, and not what you can actually buy money for) - €28,154.55.

So, the VRT on that is €5944, bringing us to €34,098.55, and then add on 21% VAT - €41,259.24, not including travel or fuel to get it home, and a day off work to go to the VRO. For the purpose of this thread, it's safe to assume that the airfare/hotel/diesel/ferry/day off work would roughly work out to the straight sale discount in the UK - the brits don't give as much discount as here on straight sales.

So - Irish price €43, 710.4 - and if you negotiate properly you'll get 1500 off, bringing it to €42,210.4 vs UK price - € 41,259.24 - difference of roughly 1k.

Or I could have messed up calculations somewhere along the line.

Paint Doctor is on the right lines here, except, the VRT payable on return is based on the OMSP of the car as declared by the local importer/distributor, effectively the list price of the car plus options, not the UK purchase price. Too sleepy to work out all the figures just now but the VRT figure will be 16% of the approx €44k total price for the car in Ireland, including the mentioned options, approx €7000. Therefore you should add about €1k to his UK figure (diff between his VRT figure and my calculation).

Mc Love

veetwin wrote: »

I agree and disagree. I was in a similar position a few months ago with a 16K car to dispose of. I used the simple strategy of pricing the car on carzone lower than all equivalents even though it was in better condition and lower mileage than the rest. I advertised for 16.5K and got 16K after 6 weeks. The reasoning was that whatever I got for it was more that I would be offered on a trade in i.e. 13.5K.

Would totally agree on this sold my car for a grand more than what i would have got trading it in

mgbgt1978

The main reason that very few new cars are imported from the UK is the pre-tax price. If you strip out VAT, VRT and all other taxes and duties from the retail price then the irish car will have a lower pre-tax price than it's UK counterpart.
The manufacturers set the pre-tax price for each country in Europe and they have to take into account the level of tax levied locally. This lets them have a "broadly" similar retail price.
In fact, up until recently a lot of UK new car buyers were travelling over here to buy their new cars because the pre-tax prices were so much lower here.

DonJose

PaintDoctor wrote: »

and if you negotiate properly you'll get 1500 off

Would you not get the same discount in the UK??? Also bear in mind BMW UK offer 3 years warranty against 2 years in Ireland.

The BMW Three Year Dealer Warranty offers complete protection against almost every eventuality and includes BMW Emergency Service.
http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/owner/services/new_car_warranty

A BMW Two Year Dealer Warranty applies on cars registered in Ireland.
http://www.bmw.ie/ie/en/owners/warranty/New_Car_Warranty.html

Vtwin

The 3rd year of warranty on BMW UK cars only covers the car in a UK dealership, first 2 are pan european, so if car broke down in 3rd year you would have to head up north to BMW

NewApproach

Question: When driving the new car back to Ireland from a dealer in the UK, what number plates would it have on, if any? I think this could cause issues.

Can't have UK plates as the car wasn't registered there. Can't have Irish plates because the car isn't yet in Ireland to register. This could cause alot of logistical problems (eg on the ferry). You would save your £4.50 toll on the M6 though

mgbgt1978

You will be issued with a temporary export number , usually XA *****.
It is the same idea as the ZZ **** plates over here (haven't seen one of those for a while).

robbie99

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

...the irish car will have a lower pre-tax price than it's UK counterpart...

Actually, the UK pretax price is cheaper. That's why it's cheaper to source from the UK rather than buying here. New cars.

Tea 1000

Vtwin wrote: »

The 3rd year of warranty on BMW UK cars only covers the car in a UK dealership, first 2 are pan european, so if car broke down in 3rd year you would have to head up north to BMW

Nope, you are wrong. And this is a major factor to be considered.
Even if the car cost you the same as buying it in the UK as buying it here, you're getting a 3 year warranty from the UK which IS upheld here.
And as for the tank of diesel and lift from the airport remark, depends on which dealer, and you'll get the tank of diesel here too except not have to use most of it driving home!

LordSutch

-Chris- wrote: »

We will be travelling to the UK by air, and returning by ferry. We'll be staying overnight for one night, single person, in a Travelodge or similar.

Why pay for air/ferry? why not travel up North by car?

-Chris-

I was under the impression that dealers in the UK were doing better deals than dealers in NI, because the dealers in NI were making gravy by selling into the ROI while the UK dealers were competing with each other on an even footing.

Unfortunately no one's posted figures from their experience that would allow us to prove or disprove this...

jackofalltrades

Camelot wrote: »

Why pay for air/ferry? why not travel up North by car?

Cars are more expensive/less choice/laundered diesel.

robbie99

|Irish|Irish Discounted|NI full price|Coast2coastcars.co.uk
520d SE Manual|€ 41,750.00|| £ 28,045.00 | £ 27,033.50
Metalic|€ 947.53|| £ 640.00 | £ 616.92
Sports MFSW|€ 162.87|| £ 110.00 | £ 106.03
List|€ 42,860.40|| £ 28,795.00 | £ 27,756.45
||||
Warranty|2 years|2 years|3 years|3 years
||||
less UK VAT (17.5%)|||£ 24,506.38|£ 23,622.51
€/£ rate (.8605 less .007 commision = .8535)||||
In Euro|||€ 28,712.81|€ 27,677.22
plus Irish VAT (21%)|||€ 34,742.50|€ 33,489.44
||||
OMSP (92% List)|€ 39,431.57|||
VRT (16%)|€ 6,309.05||€ 6,309.05|€ 6,309.05
||||
Delivery|€ 850.00|||
Collection from UK mainland (est.)||||€ 330.00
||||
Total|€ 43,710.40|??|€ 41,051.55|€ 40,128.49

dergside

Robbie99 - you use an OMSP of 92% of list price in your calculation. Why is that?

If the car is being treated as a new car for VRT purposes, then should the VRT not be based on the list price of car in Ireland?

-Corkie-

Hi chris. I bought an A8 in the uk and saved nearly 11k of the price here. Now thats when the pound and euro were worth much the same 2 years ago.

robbie99

dergside wrote: »

Robbie99 - you use an OMSP of 92% of list price in your calculation. Why is that?

If the car is being treated as a new car for VRT purposes, then should the VRT not be based on the list price of car in Ireland?

When I got a written quote for a 5 series GT a few months ago, the VRT in the quote was based on exactly 92% of the price, less delivery. Also, if you go to revenue's VRT calculator, and price up for a new car with zero miles, the OMSP for the current BMWs are exactly 92% of the price on bmw.ie. I couldn't find the F10 on the calculator but I'd be pretty sure its OMSP will be 92% of list.

R.O.R

Robbie, from the new 5 series thread, do you want to add the following to your spreadsheet above?

chongyblue wrote: »

Hi All,

I am looking for opinions on the order I placed three weeks about on an F10 520d. The spec is manual trans (I know the auto would have been better), Jet Black, Beige Leather, USB and IPOD adapter, sport steering wheel. I will change the wheels next year when I have a few more € to spend if we ever start out of this recession.


I place the order the next day at the dealer. So the price I got was €42600 for the car as above with the few extras ipod adapter, sport steering wheel + BMW Service Plus 5 years all inclusive or 100,000 KMs.

Can't remember how much the service pack is - any chance you have the price list? About €400 ish? If it is, that leaves is around €2,000 cheaper at the moment to order it from a UK Internet site.

Not a bad saving, but far from the €6,000 some poster has bandied about these parts.

robbie99

R.O.R wrote: »

Robbie, from the new 5 series thread, do you want to add the following to your spreadsheet above?



Can't remember how much the service pack is - any chance you have the price list? About €400 ish? If it is, that leaves is around €2,000 cheaper at the moment to order it from a UK Internet site.

Not a bad saving, but far from the €6,000 some poster has bandied about these parts.

I was going to but then I noticed that it wasn't exactly comparable (like what Chris specified!)

Some differences I can see...

1) Chongyblue got the 5 year Service Inclusive Plus package, worth €1,395 (which is actually cheaper than the UK's £1,395 but that doesn't matter as you can buy the Irish package for the UK car anytime up until its first service).
2) Chongyblue doesn't have metalic - costing €947.
3) Chongyblue got an iPod adapter lead which I'm guessing costs around €50 (let's say €52!) here based on the fact that a 'free' one I got with my own car 2 years ago was on the invoice for around £45.

Net effect of those differences would be 1395 + 52 - 947 = €500

So, based on Chongyblue's deal of €42,600, we could say that that an equivalent discount price for this thread's comparison is €42,100.

R.O.R

robbie99 wrote: »

I was going to but then I noticed that it wasn't exactly comparable (like what Chris specified!)

Some differences I can see...

1) Chongyblue got the 5 year Service Inclusive Plus package, worth €1,395 (which is actually cheaper than the UK's £1,395 but that doesn't matter as you can buy the Irish package for the UK car anytime up until its first service).
2) Chongyblue doesn't have metalic - costing €947.
3) Chongyblue got an iPod adapter lead which I'm guessing costs around €50 (let's say €52!) here based on the fact that a 'free' one I got with my own car 2 years ago was on the invoice for around £45.

Net effect of those differences would be 1395 + 52 - 947 = €500

So, based on Chongyblue's deal of €42,600, we could say that that an equivalent discount price for this thread's comparison is €42,100.

I'd say that's close enough to stick the figures up as a comparison until something better is posted?

LordSutch

-Chris- wrote: »

I was under the impression that dealers in the UK were doing better deals than dealers in NI, because the dealers in NI were making gravy by selling into the ROI while the UK dealers were competing with each other on an even footing.

Confusing, (seeing as the North is in the UK), I suspect you mean that dealers in Britain were doing better deals than dealers in NI, because the dealers in NI were making gravy by selling into the ROI while the GB dealers were competing with each other on an even footing . . . .

jackofalltrades also makes a valid point which has opened my eyes, "Cars are more expensive/less choice/laundered diesel in NI".

Glad to know that, as I am in the market for a new car, and my first port of call would have been the North!

-Chris-

Camelot wrote: »

Confusing, (seeing as the North is in the UK), I suspect you mean that dealers in Britain were doing better deals than dealers in NI, because the dealers in NI were making gravy by selling into the ROI while the GB dealers were competing with each other on an even footing . . . .

Thanks for the geography lesson... :rolleyes:. My bad.

Can you post your calculations/results if you're pricing in Britain & NI? Maybe you can disprove the assumption.

LordSutch

Yep, will do when I start looking around in the coming weeks.

chongyblue

robbie99 wrote: »

I was going to but then I noticed that it wasn't exactly comparable (like what Chris specified!)

Some differences I can see...

1) Chongyblue got the 5 year Service Inclusive Plus package, worth €1,395 (which is actually cheaper than the UK's £1,395 but that doesn't matter as you can buy the Irish package for the UK car anytime up until its first service).
2) Chongyblue doesn't have metalic - costing €947.
3) Chongyblue got an iPod adapter lead which I'm guessing costs around €50 (let's say €52!) here based on the fact that a 'free' one I got with my own car 2 years ago was on the invoice for around £45.

Net effect of those differences would be 1395 + 52 - 947 = €500

So, based on Chongyblue's deal of €42,600, we could say that that an equivalent discount price for this thread's comparison is €42,100.

Gents,

The IPOD adapter is something like €50 but the USB port to go with it is €303.54 and is not standard check the car configurator on BMW.ie . The service package plus €1395 and the steering wheel upgrade is €162 =€1910. Non metalic true, but from the price I have agreed the base car without an option is listed for €40690 inc delivery.

The dealer refuses to offer any discount off options.

Regards.

chongyblue

One thing I forgot to mention is the dealer said he included "shadowline" as standard on my black f10.

When I placed my deposit a different salesman who took my order mentioned it again, that it had been specified but I don't think this is the "high gloss shadowline" on the option list as it wasn't listed as a cost of €421 on the order. But they did mention it so you must be able to order the new F10 without the chrome strip around the doors for no extra but probably matte plastic to make it look better in black. The option is €421 is "high gloss", it may be orderable for no cost but I can't find it on the list.

Anyone have more info?

robbie99

I thought the USB was standard in the F10 but apparently not for the 520d . My mistake.

You say that the dealer refused to offer a discount on the options, but if you look at your deal price of €42,600, that's exactly the list price of a base 520d plus the delivery. I'd say you got all the options for free .

I'll update the table but I'll be removing the metalic from the figures to keep things as close to your car as possible.

chongyblue

robbie99 wrote: »

I thought the USB was standard in the F10 but apparently not for the 520d . My mistake.

You say that the dealer refused to offer a discount on the options, but if you look at your deal price of €42,600, that's exactly the list price of a base 520d plus the delivery. I'd say you got all the options for free .

I'll update the table but I'll be removing the metalic from the figures to keep things as close to your car as possible.

Hi Robbie,

I did strip sun protection glass from the config and they gave me the money straight off the agreed price without any discount being removed form the figure on the list. From memory it was something like €425 and they took that off my original quote of €43000.

Cheers

robbie99

Excluding the €1395 service package (which you'd want to get here) and the €50 iPod adapter lead (which you get from the parts department) chongyblue's deal comes in at €41,155.

|Irish|Irish Discounted|NI full price|Coast2coastcars.co.uk
520d SE Manual|€41,750.00|| £28,045.00 | £27,033.50
Sports MFSW|€162.87|| £110.00 | £106.03
USB|€303.54|| £205.00 | £197.61
List|€42,216.41|| £28,360.00 | £27,337.14
||||
Warranty|2 years|2 years|3 years|3 years
||||
less UK VAT (17.5%)||| £24,136.17 | £23,265.65
€/£ (.8638 less .007 commision = .8568)||| €28,170.13 | €27,154.12
plus Irish VAT (21%)|||€34,085.86|€32,856.49
||||
OMSP (92% List)|€38,839.10|||
VRT (16%)|€6,214.26||€6,214.26|€6,214.26
||||
Delivery|€850.00|||
Collection from UK mainland (est.)||||€330.00
||||
Total|€43,066.41|€41,155|€40,300.12|€39,400.74

robbie99

chongyblue wrote: »

Hi Robbie,

I did strip sun protection glass from the config and they gave me the money straight off the agreed price without any discount being removed form the figure on the list. From memory it was something like €425 and they took that off my original quote of €43000.

Cheers

Fair enough. It's only a coincidence then that the discount exactly matches the value of the extras. .

evolutionqy7

not sure on the details but on some cars it really pays to bring it from england my mothers boyfriends brother bought an 2006 audi a6 in england brought it here...after some calculations he saved around 7 grand with vrt

btw the seller actualy brought the car over to ireland over ferry to him to dublin so no travel costs appart from the train and taxi he took to get there and lunch

chongyblue

Hi,

I was wondering has anyone worked out what the euro low means this the UK import of the F10 520ds?

Has anyone actually got a F10 out of the UK and brought it back to Ireland yet and if so what were the real costs involved?

Thanks.

Regards.

noclee

Currently pricing 07-08 A3/A4 1.9 tdi's at the moment and the following looks like a good deal. UK car with full service history and hpi ok. Would there be anything else to look out for.

http://www.usedcarsni.com/34377616?grtkey=1274215644_15688280457030f381617770c2460260

Tks,
Noclee