glanbia take over

whelan1

what do you think ? i am not very impressed , we are the ones that paid for all these foreign businesses now we are being left with the scraps

Tipp Man

If i read it correctly as a soceity shareholder you will get shares in the PLC in September, when the soceity reduces its shareholding from 20% to 10% it will be distributing these share amoungst society shareholders

And the society will also maintain a 10% stake so indirectly you will also hold some of those shares

Or am i completly wrong??

I'd be more worried about the future of the business, how are they going to cut costs and pay a decent price for milk

milkprofit

Very much over valued we are buy ing a buisness in ireland that had a2.35 margin lastyear made 24 mil profit on close to a bil. turn over
we will have only 10% of the plc which had a12.3 % margin last yr. Which buisnees would you like It would be great to own our own bus but carrying a large debt would be no help to paying a good milk price
unfortunately world markets dictate milk price
T:pac:his is a great exercise for plc who will get an injection of cash in a time when it is hard to raise money for further acquisitionsor

whelan1

my da thinks the whole thing is totally overpriced and that we are going to be left paying for it .... and that we should reject the current deal and rethink it .. accordig to some of the press the deal is done and dusted :eek: but it is up to us to look for a better deal

st1979

What i hate is the speil about how the plc supported milk price by 18 mil last yr and that this was unsustainable (which is true) but sort of implying that if it were a coop it would of been. But then the next breath is that as a coop we need a margin of 4.5 to 5% (which is also true). So i can't see how a well run coop can give me a better price than now. I think glanbia plc is at the start of a very rosy future and we will be getting out at the wrong time.

whelan1

they used all our money - by giving crap prices - to buy in to foreign places now when they are up and running we are left with this i just dont see that it is right what are the benefits

whelan1

if they made 30 million profit last year i can not see how they can justify 70 million profit for the next year :eek:

Bitten & Hisses

whelan1 wrote: »

accordig to some of the press the deal is done and dusted :eek: but it is up to us to look for a better deal

Therein lies the problem. Farmers are too easily led by the cheerleaders in the IFA and Farmers Journal: They should have the cop-on to make up their own minds. Personally, I can't see what's in it for the farmers, other than the "Farmers will control the co-op" angle (Nobody has shown how this will improve milk price, btw). Everyone is rightly pointing out that the PLC is now in a position where it will be giving something back to the farmers in the form of dividends. Why on earth would you divest yourself of such an asset? It would be like taking your group of best-performing cows and selling them because cows are making good money.

Min

More shares in the PLC and co-op ownership, that is all I really know right now.

whelan1

has any one been to the meetings on the take over - whats the feedback like ?

milkprofit

Read sundays buisness post which says
:P(farmers willget a chance to commit collective commercial sucide by accepting the deal)

Tipp Man

MILK PROFIT wrote: »

Read sundays buisness post which says
:P(farmers willget a chance to commit collective commercial sucide by accepting the deal)

Why exactly??

From our point of view we will get over 30k of shares in the PLC, the milk price can't be any worse than what the PLC were paying, our inputs probably won't go up (could go down as other coops and independants around us are cheaper). Hard to see how we'll be any worse of??

Its not like the PLC were using profits from foreign operations to fund Irish milk prices, if they were we would be laughing

The fundamentals of a PLC for diary farmers are all wrong, aim of a PLC is to make as much profit as possible, 1 way to do this is to cut input costs as low as possible, whats Glanbia's biggest input cost, yes bainne. So there is a direct conflict of interest between the farmers and the PLC's. Its just not a sustainable business line

whelan1

went to the information meeting last night ... the negative points from the deal are : it appears to be 100million over priced and there is no commitment on milk price going forward . On the plus side the method of payment has been well thought out. The co op shares in the plc seem to be going to a good use. Fresh milk producers need to do an independent evaluation to see where we stand..... the other point that is sticking out that the 70 million projected profit is realistically 30 million

Bitten & Hisses

Tipp Man wrote: »

From our point of view we will get over 30k of shares in the PLC, the milk price can't be any worse than what the PLC were paying

€30K worth of shares is hard to ignore alright, but won't the co-op be carrying a fairly substantial debt as a result of the take over? If so, this would surely be a potential drain on milk price.

whelan1 wrote:

there is no commitment on milk price going forward

In fairness, they couldn't do this even if they wanted, as nobody can tell where commodity prices are going to be. The best you could hope for would be a commitment along the lines of being in X position in the KPMG audit, or something along those lines.

whelan1

read john shirley today in the irish indo , makes very interesting reading:eek:

Wendell Gee

I've been to two meetings. Few key points. If PLC won't invest in future Irish development due to large margins, how can a co-op that will have no cash reserves and a low margin business grow?
2 The co-op cannot subsidise milk price over time. The proponents of the deal say it will allow "flexibility" on price = short term support only in my book
3 The co-op has a majority stake in the plc. Another 15% resides in the hands of co-op supporters. This gives the co-op control of the plc. it's time we boxed our weight.
The concept is fine- the price is all wrong. This deal was put together in the boardroom- maloney and the entire plc staff vs 14 farmers unable to seek any counsel (other than "expert opinion" during the negotiation process) It's a stitch-up. I can't blame anyone for looking at the spin out revenue to themselves, but I see no long term value in the deal. In my case, my shares are mickey mouse, so it's not a factor- just being honest.

The deal to my mind stinks to high heaven.
Maloney knows this which is why the sweetener shares are being offered at a time when farmers are down and out.

Meanwhile maloney can ride off into the sunset with his new lowly geared glanbia plc,the farmers having paid off most of his borrowings for him.
I'm guessing he and others promoting this have loads of shares in that for when a buyer comes along and I've no doubt thats whats planned in my opinion..

Also isn't it very fishy that the board of the co-op for the last 2 years were pushing a share trade in the society where you could buy and sell shares.
We all got the forms in the post.

Who bought up these shares? You can bet your bottom dollar people in the know about this so called deal coming down the tracks did... :rolleyes: would that include the current board members and their friends?

That said,the price being suggested is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to high.
The co-op is paying circa €343 million for something we already own 54% of???
Lol
So simple maths means if the co op keeps 10% of it...then we would be paying €343 million for 56% of part of the companies assets...making the irish business worth the guts of €700 million...

Do the board of this co op think it's members are stark raving mad or what?

And lol... aren't mostly the same members on both the board of the co op and the plc? I know they hired 2 separate firms to look into both sides of the issue mar dhea independently but lol what a cod of a carry on..they had to agree it amongst themselves.

I will be voting NO on may 10th.

milkprofit

Consider the shares you will be left will probably be worthless 30 k not a good deal
deal is 150k over valued
new co-op will have too much debt to developed
we will have only 10% off a potentially profitable plc whose debt will be reduced by us we are getting 10 mil(rising by 5% /year a year from plc in dividends this would drop to 1.8 mil
why walk away from a plc with a margin of 12% to buy one with.3%
:mad:
co-op profit has been circa 50 mil take deprecation of 20 mil 20 mil for capital investment there is a commitment to pay 18 mil in 2010 and 2011 revolving share capital commitment to pay 12 mil per year for 17 years to pension fund not much to spare to get new entity up and running
co-op would be easier picking for supermarkets (who are already robbing us ) and unions who would see co -op as easy target:p

Tipp Man

MILK PROFIT wrote: »

Consider the shares you will be left will probably be worthless 30 k not a good deal
deal is 150k over valued
new co-op will have too much debt to developed
we will have only 10% off a potentially profitable plc whose debt will be reduced by us we are getting 10 mil(rising by 5% /year a year from plc in dividends this would drop to 1.8 mil
why walk away from a plc with a margin of 12% to buy one with.3%
:mad:
co-op profit has been circa 50 mil take deprecation of 20 mil 20 mil for capital investment there is a commitment to pay 18 mil in 2010 and 2011 revolving share capital commitment to pay 12 mil per year for 17 years to pension fund not much to spare to get new entity up and running
co-op would be easier picking for supermarkets (who are already robbing us ) and unions who would see co -op as easy target:p

Not sure I agree with a lot of what you say but an open to persuasion:D, we are receiving 30k of shares in the PLC for free which will if anything only go up in value. We will still have the Coop shareholdings for potential future developments so they are certainly not worthless, just not currently tradeable.

I assume you mean 150m overvalued, not 150k, but anyway can you show me how you have reached a value of circa 200m for the coop??

Can you clarify exactly how much debt the new coop will have that makes you think it will have too much??

On the dividends the Coop will get from the PLC, yes it will fall from 10m to 2m based on 09, but if the PLC use the COOP funds to pay off their debt then they will make considerable more profits going forward so our 10% share will bring in a lot more than 2m (just on reduction of interest alone). Using a simple example if the 30m paid in 09 for interest is eliminated thats 30m extra profit availabe to shareholders, or an extra 3m available to the Coop (obvisouly thats just a simple explain but the logic holds), thats disregarding the future profitable investments that the PLC could make

You say why walk away form a good margin PLC, well I ask you exactly what have you received from this good margin PLC?? Have they paid you a better milk price then other Coops?? Have they given you cheap inputs to reduce your costs?? Where exactly have the benfits of being a PLC transferred to the farmer?? all the benifits of the PLC went to shareholders as far as i can see and there is nothing stopping any of us from increasing our shareholding in the PLC

So Tipp man your attitude is sell the family silver and let maloney ride practically debt free off into the sunset while you enjoy your 30k?

The average plc roll out in shares under this deal is only worth 8k at the moment so someone with 30k worth of them at current prices would have a lot of co op shares... probably 15,000 or more.
Most people with that amount or more would have bought them...
My view is a lot of people in the know/hearing talk about this potential deal took advantage of the board promoted recent share dealings..

Any farmer not "vested as much" in the deal as someone with €30k to gain will tell you that the two rather expensive accountantcy firms used a multiple of average plc profits to come to the €343 million circa value.
Handy but useless as the stuff the co op is buying is mainly the irish milk business which they say is loss making.
What would be the multiple on the losses I wonder? how much does the plc owe us to take it off their hands?

You don't have to tell us that if this deal went through,the new co op couldn't suddenly unilaterally up the milk price when they are already making a loss on it.
Change for that has to be more fundamental and involves the large multiples especially the likes of Tesco.

As I said many times before,they sell fair deal fair price coffee but they forget that principle when it comes to irish/european farmers.
They prefer to sell unfair deal milk and unfair deal food keeping all the margin for themselves.

They can do this because they have the power being a giant almost monopoly in the industry.
Easy to bully Glanbia and the other coop's and plc's.

Tipp Man

Deleted User wrote: »

So Tipp man your attitude is sell the family silver and let maloney ride practically debt free off into the sunset while you enjoy your 30k?

The average plc roll out in shares under this deal is only worth 8k at the moment so someone with 30k worth of them at current prices would have a lot of co op shares... probably 15,000 or more.
Most people with that amount or more would have bought them...
My view is a lot of people in the know/hearing talk about this potential deal took advantage of the board promoted recent share dealings..

Any farmer not "vested as much" in the deal as someone with €30k to gain will tell you that the two rather expensive accountantcy firms used a multiple of average plc profits to come to the €343 million circa value.
Handy but useless as the stuff the co op is buying is mainly the irish milk business which they say is loss making.
What would be the multiple on the losses I wonder? how much does the plc owe us to take it off their hands?

You don't have to tell us that if this deal went through,the new co op couldn't suddenly unilaterally up the milk price when they are already making a loss on it.
Change for that has to be more fundamental and involves the large multiples especially the likes of Tesco.

As I said many times before,they sell fair deal fair price coffee but they forget that principle when it comes to irish/european farmers.
They prefer to sell unfair deal milk and unfair deal food keeping all the margin for themselves.

They can do this because they have the power being a giant almost monopoly in the industry.
Easy to bully Glanbia and the other coop's and plc's.

We have absolutely no vested interest in this, no more than any other Glanbia supplier, just in case you think we do. We've had these Coop shares since before i was born I'd say (so a long time ago)

What do you mean let Maloney ride of into the sunset, its mearly a parting of the ways, and if Maloney is as good as everybody says he is then the Coop will do ok from the dividends on its 10% and each farmer will also do ok from their free PLC shares. So as a milk supplier we will get at least the same price for our milk, our inputs will not increase, but we are getting shares in a profitable PLC along with a consistent dividends so we will have increased our assets for no extra costs. This applies to all farmers involved. Assuming the milk price can be held then its a no brainer

Anyway nobody is telling me the benifits that Glanbia farmers are getting from being part of a profitable PLC?? Can somebody tell me this?? However as i have mentioned previously it is pretty obvious of the conflict of interest that a PLC has with a milk (or grain for that matter) supplier

Not sure about your Tesco bullying arguement either because we have seen nothing from the PLC's to suggest they are any more likely to stand up to Tesco than the Coop will

Tipp Man

Also can somebody please outline to me how any of us will be better off if the deal does not go through??

Tipp Man

Tipp Man wrote: »

We have absolutely no vested interest in this, no more than any other Glanbia supplier, just in case you think we do. We've had these Coop shares since before i was born I'd say (so a long time ago)

Ach fair enough and shur it doesn't matter,I do know people who've told me they bought some and I'm guessing about the board/councils/friends etc.
I'd say it's a good guess.

What do you mean let Maloney ride of into the sunset, its mearly a parting of the ways, and if Maloney is as good as everybody says he is then the Coop will do ok from the dividends on its 10% and each farmer will also do ok from their free PLC shares. So as a milk supplier we will get at least the same price for our milk, our inputs will not increase, but we are getting shares in a profitable PLC along with a consistent dividends so we will have increased our assets for no extra costs. This applies to all farmers involved. Assuming the milk price can be held then its a no brainer

Turn that on it's head-whats wrong then with the current set up?
If maloney is so good why can't he trade his way out of his borrowings without codding the farmers into doing it for him?

Anyway nobody is telling me the benifits that Glanbia farmers are getting from being part of a profitable PLC?? Can somebody tell me this?? However as i have mentioned previously it is pretty obvious of the conflict of interest that a PLC has with a milk (or grain for that matter) supplier

We 54% own it.
It's an asset,we built up that we shouldn't strip for peanuts effectively.

Not sure about your Tesco bullying arguement either because we have seen nothing from the PLC's to suggest they are any more likely to stand up to Tesco than the Coop will

I was making the point that going co-op only is not a panacea for low milk prices and it's not a panacea for couteracting the over strong position of the Tesco's in this world who think it's fine to have a high margin themselves for stacking a commodity but won't allow a fair proportion to the primary producer.
They do it for coffee but it's all hush hush when it comes to irish food products.
It's a totally separate issue to what we may or may not agree with on may 10th.

For the record ,the two meetings I've attended so far have been strongly No.
I've yet to meet a yes voter that hasn't either a large holding or has bought shares.
That doesn't auger well for getting 75% yes on this with any luck.

Also can somebody please outline to me how any of us will be better off if the deal does not go through??

Ah thats simple.
Status Quo.

Maloney gets on with his job and we get to keep 54% of the assets in our name rather than this get rich quick scheme for the few.
Meantime we should be concentrating our efforts on making food prices fairer and we should have the huge organisation that is an untouched Glanbia behind us.
Thats what we should be working on.

whelan1

i too have yet to meet anyone - apart from my local glanbia board member - who is voting yes....

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

i too have yet to meet anyone - apart from my local glanbia board member - who is voting yes....

but why aren't people voting yes?? What is their reasoning behind it. This is my question (I'm not trying to influence anybody's vote at all, I'm just genuinely interested in peoples thinking behind voting yes or no)

I would say that the vast vast majority in our area will be voting yes

@tippman

Anybody that really really needs the money will vote yes.
Some secretly.

I voted in the avonmore waterford merger.
That had a far easier ride to the 75% plus one that it needed.

I wouldn't like to be counting on getting anywhere near 75% on this one unless a lot of people secretly need the money and a lot do but are people who put that need ahead of principles enough to carry it over the 75% threshold-thats where I'd have my doubts.

@tippman -most people I've spoken to [and indeed one of the meetings was a packed to the rafters hall] were saying the same things I was in this thread.

The co-op won't be able to change the direction of it's market or the farmer price with or without the plc so theres no imperative to sever it.
The talk of the two not gelling is just impervious waffle designed by the fly off into the sunset maloney crowd who want rid of the farmer by raping us of a plc business that was born from the shoulders of the co op members.

The plc is security,a rock that was built rooted in and by the co op that is there to ensure the future of the business when one end of it,it's mother end,the bit that means so much to farmers survives the bad times.

We've all seen how badly we are treated by foreign purchasers of our products [eg Tesco].We need to be secure as a larger company & Co op so we don't end up also with the milk processing business here having gone bust and we end up with a double whammy...a foreign owned processer aswell as what we already have a foreign owned multiple that cares about them self and not us.
Thats why Glanbia diversified and it's why the co op members wanted it to.
To make us stronger as a whole.
If they abandon this and take the silver [which will soon run out if it's to pay their merchant bills] then short term gain is going to lead to long term pain and ongoing pain.

milkprofit

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by MILK PROFIT)---
Consider the shares you will be left will probably be worthless 30 k not a good deal
deal is 150k over valued
new co-op will have too much debt to developed
we will have only 10% off a potentially profitable plc whose debt will be reduced by us we are getting 10 mil(rising by 5% /year a year from plc in dividends this would drop to 1.8 mil
why walk away from a plc with a margin of 12% to buy one with.3%
:mad:
co-op profit has been circa 50 mil take deprecation of 20 mil 20 mil for capital investment there is a commitment to pay 18 mil in 2010 and 2011 revolving share capital commitment to pay 12 mil per year for 17 years to pension fund not much to spare to get new entity up and running
co-op would be easier picking for supermarkets (who are already robbing us ) and unions who would see co -op as easy target:p
----tipp man-

Not sure I agree with a lot of what you say but an open to persuasion:D, we are receiving 30k of shares in the PLC for free which will if anything only go up in value. We will still have the Coop shareholdings for potential future developments so they are certainly not worthless, just not currently tradeable.

I assume you mean 150m overvalued, not 150k, but anyway can you show me how you have reached a value of circa 200m for the coop??

Can you clarify exactly how much debt the new coop will have that makes you think it will have too much??

On the dividends the Coop will get from the PLC, yes it will fall from 10m to 2m based on 09, but if the PLC use the COOP funds to pay off their debt then they will make considerable more profits going forward so our 10% share will bring in a lot more than 2m (just on reduction of interest alone). Using a simple example if the 30m paid in 09 for interest is eliminated thats 30m extra profit availabe to shareholders, or an extra 3m available to the Coop (obvisouly thats just a simple explain but the logic holds), thats disregarding the future profitable investments that the PLC could make

You say why walk away form a good margin PLC, well I ask you exactly what have you received from this good margin PLC?? Have they paid you a better milk price then other Coops?? Have they given you cheap inputs to reduce your costs?? Where exactly have the benfits of being a PLC transferred to the farmer?? all the benifits of the PLC went to shareholders as far as i can see and there is nothing stopping any of us from increasing our shareholding in the PLC
- Show quoted text -
***************


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milk profit

Consider if you are getting 30 k worth of shares you must own1600 coop shares how many shares will you be left with and what will they be worth nothing for free dont sell for quick buck dont forget 25% cg tax
coop will ows 50 m revolving share capital they are paying 50 m aprox cash to plc they will have to have faccitality for working capital of a 150 -200 mil that is to much debt in my book

benefits from plc we own 54% worth 550 m aprox plc has written off aprox 700m exceptionals in last 10 years why sell new plc will use money to reduce debt and to fund aqusitions and under j malooney will increase profits and share value- Show quoted text -

I spoke to a large dairy farmer yesterday who is voting NO.
His shareholding would mean about €30k worth of plc shares in the spin out.

His attitude was,thats just a couple of lorry loads of cattle.
What use is that he said..

Meanwhile if the coop loses money if this goes through,then Kerry or someone foreign will end up buying it as scrap for a pittance and bang goes milk price down to the floor again.

The man has a point.

whelan1

on one hand we are being told the milk processing part is a loss making business and on the other it is going to make 70 million this year or next year ... just doesnt make sense to me ... had my glanbia man on to me today to see if i was voting and what way i am voting

whelan1

glanbia shares have gone down 20 c since yesterday morning :eek: also on reading the farming indo yesterday glanbia claim that there is 8 to 1 in favour of the deal - i dont know where they get their figures from:D

Tipp Man

Deleted User wrote: »

I spoke to a large dairy farmer yesterday who is voting NO.
His shareholding would mean about €30k worth of plc shares in the spin out.

His attitude was,thats just a couple of lorry loads of cattle.
What use is that he said..

Meanwhile if the coop loses money if this goes through,then Kerry or someone foreign will end up buying it as scrap for a pittance and bang goes milk price down to the floor again.

The man has a point.

When all else fails threaten the foreigners taking us over!! Hmm a couple of loads of cattle just being handed to you the day they go to the factory or as new born calves with 2 and half years cost ahead of them

Seriously I am asking this for the 5th time now and i want somebody to answer me, what have Glanbia milk suppliers gained from being part of a PLC that other dairy farmers missed out on by being part of Coops?? Has Glanbia used the foreign profits to pay more to Glanbia dairy farmers?? Has is used its considerable buying power to reduce the costs of inputs relative to Coops??

Black Briar what exactly have you gained from being part of a PLC for the last 10 years?? What are the common goals between non farming PLC shareholders and milk (and grain) suppliers??

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

glanbia shares have gone down 20 c since yesterday morning :eek: also on reading the farming indo yesterday glanbia claim that there is 8 to 1 in favour of the deal - i dont know where they get their figures from:D

There is huge support for the de-merger in the Tipp - west waterford area. The only people I have heard not in favour are on here!! Depends on where you are from i suppose. It would be interesting to see the spread of votes by region when the vote actually does take place

Before i saw the reaction on here i was confident it would go through but if the lack of support is as strong as you guys say i doubt it will go through

Tipp Man

Tipp Man wrote: »

Seriously I am asking this for the 5th time now and i want somebody to answer me, what have Glanbia milk suppliers gained from being part of a PLC that other dairy farmers missed out on by being part of Coops?? Has Glanbia used the foreign profits to pay more to Glanbia dairy farmers?? Has is used its considerable buying power to reduce the costs of inputs relative to Coops??

Black Briar what exactly have you gained from being part of a PLC for the last 10 years?? What are the common goals between non farming PLC shareholders and milk (and grain) suppliers??

I've gained stability and a strong company.
I suggest you take off the blinkers with all due respect.
I was at a meeting of angry farmers last year where Maloney admitted it was difficult for the plc to raise the money to pay milk cheques without the plc.
Laughably now look at what he's trying to cook up.

If the milk business is finding it hard to survive with income from the plc,how's it going to survive without it?

30% no vote and 37% undecided in a poll in yesterdays papers by the way.
Glanbia are dissing the poll as being too small at just 254 members.

Political opinion polls,I'd remind Glanbia, tend to be accurate and the science of polling agree's that 1000 random voters out of 1.5 million is adequate.
So if anything,the Glanbia poll is comparatively much more acurate.

bogman_bass

how big will the turn-out be? how many farmers from meath/louth for example travel down to kilkenny to vote?

whelan1

bogman_bass wrote: »

how big will the turn-out be? how many farmers from meath/louth for example travel down to kilkenny to vote?

buses being orgainised as we speak - i am driving down , spoke to many who are going ,

Yes it's very important to vote.
Especially if you are a no voter as money talks and I've no doubt that the money is the main reason behind a yes vote and is what will carry it if it's to be carried.
From what I hear this proposal has been mooted for a couple of years now and cynically but cleverly they decided to float it when they thought that farmers needed the money badly.
There are an awfull lot of big merchant bills out there and from what I hear Glanbia are seizing most if not all of some peoples milk cheques and pushing this as a way to pay them off.
Thats outrageous!

Of 6 of my neighbours-4 are no voters and 2 are yes voters.
I happen to know that one of them has had a very bad year and needs the money and the other guy gave me wishy washy reasons for his yes vote and then admitted that he wanted the money to buy a tractor :rolleyes:

Tipp Man

Deleted User wrote: »

I've gained stability and a strong company.
I suggest you take off the blinkers with all due respect.
I was at a meeting of angry farmers last year where Maloney admitted it was difficult for the plc to raise the money to pay milk cheques without the plc.
Laughably now look at what he's trying to cook up.

If the milk business is finding it hard to survive with income from the plc,how's it going to survive without it?

30% no vote and 37% undecided in a poll in yesterdays papers by the way.
Glanbia are dissing the poll as being too small at just 254 members.

Political opinion polls,I'd remind Glanbia, tend to be accurate and the science of polling agree's that 1000 random voters out of 1.5 million is adequate.
So if anything,the Glanbia poll is comparatively much more acurate.

With all due respect you are the one who has the blinkers on, with your vote no agenda, I have no agenda only to have a discussion about the issues, the merits and the pros and cons. I have asked questions and nobody has answered them, your 1 line of "I have gained stability and a stronger company" is bull of the highest order.

So tell me exactly how you have gained stability? Are Glanbia paying you more than other Coops are paying for milk? Are you getting your inputs cheaper due to the size of Glanbia? Are you more profitable (therefore more stable) by being part of Glanbia PLC??

Tell me also how you have gained a stronger company?? Glanbia PLC may be stronger but that is completly irrelevant, anybody can buy into Glanbia PLC, farmer or not, and the fact that it is a PLC means that it will want to buy its milk/grain at the very cheapest price possible, sell its fertiliser etc at the dearest price possible to maximise shareholer returns

You say that "the milk business is finding it hard to survive without income from the PLC" but that is simply not true at all.You seem to forget than when the milk price was rock bottom it was the Coop who was supporting farmers, what was the PLC doing with all its foreign profits?? It was investing in other foreign companies and it certainly wasn't supporting Irish milk prices

So please give a lot more detail on why this is such a bad idea

whelan1

new glanbia board member john murphy summed the deal up very well in the farmers journal , he has access to all the relevant information and we should heed his advice

Tipp Man

Tipp Man wrote: »

With all due respect you are the one who has the blinkers on, with your vote no agenda, I have no agenda only to have a discussion about the issues, the merits and the pros and cons. I have asked questions and nobody has answered them, your 1 line of "I have gained stability and a stronger company" is bull of the highest order.

How is it Bull? Do you think the coop minus the non irish plc business would have been able to persuade the banks to keep paying the milk cheques last year? I doubt it.

So tell me exactly how you have gained stability? Are Glanbia paying you more than other Coops are paying for milk? Are you getting your inputs cheaper due to the size of Glanbia? Are you more profitable (therefore more stable) by being part of Glanbia PLC??

It's not me thats more profitable,it's the group as a whole thanks to diversification.
But then I've already said that and you've ignored it.
Asking the group to remain profitable in tough times with not even half it's current business is madness.
Basic maths.
Thats without even taking into account the fact that you would be throwing hundreds of millions of good money away to do this down size.

Lol - who ever heard of a company throwing away it's most profitable business and paying 100's of millions to have it done.
Totally laughable if it wasn't so serious.
It's actually business/Economic Heracy.

Tell me also how you have gained a stronger company?? Glanbia PLC may be stronger but that is completly irrelevant,

Thats like saying it's raining and the grounds wet but the fact that it's raining is completely irrelevant.

anybody can buy into Glanbia PLC, farmer or not, and the fact that it is a PLC means that it will want to buy its milk/grain at the very cheapest price possible, sell its fertiliser etc at the dearest price possible to maximise shareholer returns

So are you saying the coop won't want to make money on these things? They have to be competitive whether as a coop or a plc and they can't run the business into the ground.They'd have to run it similar to the plc.

So you've a red herring there.

You say that "the milk business is finding it hard to survive without income from the PLC" but that is simply not true at all.You seem to forget than when the milk price was rock bottom it was the Coop who was supporting farmers, what was the PLC doing with all its foreign profits?? It was investing in other foreign companies and it certainly wasn't supporting Irish milk prices

And where was the coop getting this money? Yes from the plc!

So please give a lot more detail on why this is such a bad idea

I've set out my case,you with respect just ignore it.
Worse than that you are suggesting that the coop can on it's ownio do better for milk price than can the now intact plc complete with it's international business's.

The low milk price isn't the plc's fault,it's a generic farmer versus the Tesco's of this world problem.
That problem has nothing to do with the coop being a coop or a plc hybrid as it is now.
I've said it already,it's a market problem and it's an attitude problem and a different issue entirely.
If you think the coop will tackle it on it's ownio severed from the resources built up and building via the plc international business's then it's the first time I've ever heard any business saying it will be stronger if it is weaker.

whelan1

glanbia shares are at 285 this evening ... are we all going down to vote?

whelan1

glanbia share price is down 55 c (17%) is the market realising that the proposed deal is going to be rejected , no 100 million euro bonanza for the plc

IT is very important to vote.

I wouldn't read too much into the price fall being to do with this proposed deal to be honest.
Markets are very volatile in general at the moment with the Greek crisis,the British hung parliament and some eejit over in New York pressing the wrong button and showing a deal in the millions as one in the hundreds of billions lol.The last bit alone on friday caused the NYSE to fall 9%
The markets in theory like this deal as it gives the plc money and more

I'm travelling with 4 NO voters.
My area to the best of my knowledge is a strong No.

I've had 2 visits in the last 48hrs from managers in glanbia urging me to vote yes.They are frantically doing the area at the moment.
I've also had stuff in the door from both Glanbia itself,FMP and the ICMSA all urging a yes vote.
They must be getting worried especially as the financial carrot dangled doesn't look so good at the time of voting and may be looking worse.
Not everyone will tie that in with the volatile market.

whelan1

tbh i found the fmp letter to be a very vague one to vote yes, have had no glanbia members out to me yet , but i am not for turning

The gist of the last call to the No voters to get them to change their mind, seems to be,it will be easier to get things done from a farmer perspective if you are a coop alone.
The plc is it seems pulling the opposite way wanting to put all profits in to make more and thats because thats it's core objective.
The farmer suppliers are irrelevant to that.

Thats all true.

But aren't a majority of the boards of both the plc and the co op the same people?
Aren't the majority of them farmers them selves?
Aren't the majority of the plc shareholders farmers?

Leaving aside all the debate so far -the one thing that I am most concerned with is the direction of the co op after this goes through if it does.It's a small fish.
You'd have to feel angry when you compare it's direction and management and share price compared to Kerry for example.
I don't see the confidence in the current team to take decisions that will grow the business and grow it must or we're all sunk.
Our co-op will be worth just a fraction of what it could be or is supposed to be today [or should be if the world market hadn't gone south] as are our Co-op shares.
The plc spin out shares...well most of them will be sold by farmers in financial trouble to pay off bills to be honest.


Yet we are being asked to sever the existing probably 60%+ farmer owned entity as it is now from the plc's most profitable wings and move on to try make a go of whats left minus the brains that drove it aswell.
I'm worried about that idea given the mostly farmer board to date have shown themselves to be in the tail wagging the dog territory ie 30% of the company Ran the company..

Sigh! [Is my angst at deciding this showing?]

Min

I have an inspection so will not be attending.

On one piece of literature received it put a value on the co-op shares of €8.40 a share, no intention of selling shares whether PLC or co-op but would the co-op shares really have that value?

whelan1

Min wrote: »

I have an inspection so will not be attending.

On one piece of literature received it put a value on the co-op shares of €8.40 a share, no intention of selling shares whether PLC or co-op but would the co-op shares really have that value?

dunno where the 8.40 is coming from but out of interest what way would you vote if you where going

Min

whelan1 wrote: »

dunno where the 8.40 is coming from but out of interest what way would you vote if you where going

I am not sure, 60% yes, 40% no so I guess I would vote yes.

milkprofit

don't be silly if deal goes through your co op shares will be worthy 1 euro at most
be brave put inspection off and vote NO
FMP independent advisers came to conclusion plc was over valued by 80- 90 m (that is million euros) which is approximately 20,000 e per milk producer:(:eek:
Today Sunday I had Glanbia plc phoning for a yes vote from one of those lazy people who never phone to sell fert or meal even on weak day
I am on the no bus please hop on:cool:

whelan1

look i am going over a 3 hour journey down to vote no , surely if you live that close it wouldnt be too hard to get there if you really wanted to

Tipp Man

Well judging by on here it will be a hands down for the no vote, but in real life the yes vote is much stronger, however is it strong enough to get the huge majority need to pass the motion, it is probably doubtful which is a shame - opportunity lost for a generation of Irish diary farmers?? Probably

enda1

If there is a no vote however, it will bomb the company.
They have opened themselves up in operations to the market who are counting on a carry through of the split.

If there is a no, the company will be not just back to square one, but will be at square zero, having spent a large sum on this split, plus revealed a lot about its operations.

The value of eleryones asset in the company will plummet and milk prices will stay at the levels set by the PLC.

Hard to see a good arguement for the no vote to be honest.

(even with a yes vote from the COOP, it still has to go for an EGM vote in which the COOP doesn't have a vote, I presume you all know, but this should be a certainty).

Only real loser in the yes vote is the consumer