People believe FG answer to all our problems????

average_runner

Its nearly for granted that FG will get into Goverment but also in my opinion its nearly granted they are going to be doomed from day 1 and their party will get ruined.


Reason I say this is because people have built FG up to be the answer to all our problems, expecially in this forum.

So a few questions I have:

- Do you really think FG are differ to FF in that they care about the average Joe Soap. If so why and what evidence to show it???

To me all the parties are the same, look after number 1 and then their rich buddies, joe soap never got anything off FG or off any of the other parties!


Will the same people that moan about FF be on here moaning about FG in two years???

My answer is yes, as people have build them up to be God in solving our problems!


In my opinion I believe we will have FG goverment, they be out in 5 years or less if they go with labour(as labour cant get along with no one) and FF will walk back in. FG could well do good work in those 5 years but will take 10 years for that to come through but the Irish people wont wait that long, FF will then get in and take the credit.

Head The Wall

I don't know who gave you the impression that FG will solve everything here. Couldn't be further from the truth, they may be an alternative to FF but they are not a credible alternative that will get much done or changed.

Most people here in my opinion think we are still fecked regardless of who gets in. Obviously Labour would be the worst

The_Honeybadger

IMO Fianna Gael are running with the hare and hunting with the hounds at the moment, they have not laid down a strong position on key issues such as public sector pay & reform, they are also against NAMA but have no credible alternative for fixing the banks. Also consider Labour will get in with them which will hamper them even further, I consider Labour to be full of hot air, great at shouting about what is wrong, but very little clue about what should be done to put it right. I think if anything they are a little scared of power, as they know what an impossible job it would be in Government now, there isn't a leader anywhere in the world that could get us out of this mess we have made and I think Enda knows this. FG's plan to create 100,000 jobs is pure pie in the sky as it would take an investment of billions that we don't have, and their plan for the health system makes some sense, but doesn't address the key issues in our hospitals. In summary i don't believe a change in Government will bring about any major change in our fortunes, I don't think anybody else does either. However they are not Fianna Fail, and this alone should see them get their chance IMO.

smellslikeshoes

When the current shower of FF are the cause of a lot of our problems it's hard to see why getting them out of government wouldn't solve a lot of things.

My personal opinion is that having one party in power for too long can cause things to become stagnant, corrupt, incompetent etc.
That is why we need change, not because the party policies are that different.

dlofnep

I don't believe FG is distinct enough for produce any real changes, in my opinion. They serve the same interests as Fianna Fáil.

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't believe FG is distinct enough for produce any real changes, in my opinion. They serve the same interests as Fianna Fáil.

but Sinn Féin are, of course :rolleyes:

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

but Sinn Féin are, of course :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, am I entitled to my opinion without getting the obligatory rolling eyes?

I don't feel that Fine Gael would change the landscape, and that their interests are similar to that of Fianna Fáil. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

zootroid

average_runner wrote: »

Its nearly for granted that FG will get into Goverment but also in my opinion its nearly granted they are going to be doomed from day 1 and their party will get ruined.


Reason I say this is because people have built FG up to be the answer to all our problems, expecially in this forum.

So a few questions I have:

- Do you really think FG are differ to FF in that they care about the average Joe Soap. If so why and what evidence to show it???

To me all the parties are the same, look after number 1 and then their rich buddies, joe soap never got anything off FG or off any of the other parties!


Will the same people that moan about FF be on here moaning about FG in two years???

My answer is yes, as people have build them up to be God in solving our problems!


In my opinion I believe we will have FG goverment, they be out in 5 years or less if they go with labour(as labour cant get along with no one) and FF will walk back in. FG could well do good work in those 5 years but will take 10 years for that to come through but the Irish people wont wait that long, FF will then get in and take the credit.

If you believe that to be the case, why do you live in Ireland? Why not move to a country that has a healthier democracy?

I don't for one minute think FG will solve all our problems. I don't think any party can. But I do think it's unhealthy for any democracy for the same group of people to be left in charge for so long. Power corrupts. People in power either become solely interested in furthering their own agendas, or they become so removed from the everyday lives of the citizens that they make poor decisions.

I also think that the election should be a way of holding the government to account. Even if FF were to be seen in a light that they stand the best chance of getting the economy on track (and I don't think they are), the election gives the electorate a chance to punish those who made mistakes by removing them from power.

It's a shame that Ireland does have the political system it has, because despite all that, Cowen will still be returned come the next election. Parish pump politics at its worst.

Anyway, as you sound like someone willing to vote FF, what reason do you have for doing so other than the fact you believe FG will not be any good? Surely FF have demonstrated by now their sheer incompetence?

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm sorry, am I entitled to my opinion without getting the obligatory rolling eyes?

I don't feel that Fine Gael would change the landscape, and that their interests are similar to that of Fianna Fáil. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Its hard not to roll eyes when it comes to talking with Sinners Marxists Republicans sorry (dont shoot me!), Its like talking to Mormons when they come knocking on the door

anyways I actually agree with you about FG (and also Lab)

I dread voting in the next election, its going to be a real case of choosing the least worst option

astrofool

The least worst option is to get rid of FF. The only way to do that is ensure that FG get a majority.

problemchimp

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't believe FG is distinct enough for produce any real changes, in my opinion. They serve the same interests as Fianna Fáil.

so what do you suggest? leave it as it is?

Sleepy

Obviously, as far as I'm concerned, only dictatorship rule by myself would answer all our problems

I can imagine better politicians/parties to lead Ireland out of the recession. However, as an Irishman I've never had the opportunity to vote for someone I actually thought was competent, intelligent, honest and without associations to murderers. As such, my ballot has always been filled from lowest preference to highest in order of "hell no", "really don't want him/her/them", "they're slightly less unpalatable", "least worst option".

So, no, they aren't the answer to all our problems. They're the least worst option.

Liam Byrne

I don't for a second believe that FG will solve all our problems.

The scale of the mess that FF have left behind ensures that.

I do, however - for obvious reasons - reckon they will be a huge improvement.

I'd view it as being like the current Financial Regulator......he's a massive improvement but he can't solve everything either.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

dlofnep

problemchimp wrote: »

so what do you suggest? leave it as it is?

No, I'd suggest a left-aligned government that serve the interests of the people first, and not populist politics.

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

No, I'd suggest a left-aligned government that serve the interests of the people first, and not populist politics.

quadrupling welfare, free 3rd level education, larger public service, numerous quanqos

is right wing? :eek:

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

No, I'd suggest a left-aligned government that serve the interests of the people first, and not populist politics.

Which people, though ?

I mean, SF's view of law and order, acceptable behaviour and equality seems to differ from that of most people I know.

And they seem to do accountability for their actions and those of their members similarly to FF.

RichardAnd

I agree that, right now, FG are destined to be the next party in power. Of course, between now and the next election (unless FF fall) alot could happen so it's not set in stone.

The opposition in Ireland have never had it easier. People are angry because they have been hit where it hurts the most; in the pocket. All the opposition parties have to do is say that FF and the bankers are to blame and make the average Joe feel like a victim.

But of course, the reality is far, far different. The fact is that FF were voted into power by doing precisely what people wanted them to do. I heard on the radio last summer, a woman on Joe Duffy complaining that FF should have attempted to curb the boom and prevent a reliance on construction. Well she was correct, they should have but if Ahern had done that he would probably have been voted out of power. And FG would jump on the band wagon by probably doing precisely what FF did to keep the boom alive.

FG or FF, it doesn't really matter. The boom and bust weren't caused simply the the greed of a few high people but the collective 10 year binge on money by 90% of people in this nation. The "Blame FF and the Bankers" argument utterly fails to address the sickening level greed, selfishness and dishonesty that took hold here.

I don't like FF, I don't like FG, I dislike politicians in general simply because they are utterly untrustworthy and, right now, they are telling a nation of angry people what they want to hear. Ireland's problem is her own people, the drink, the immaturity and the general ignorance are things that have to go. But of course they won't so people can go and blame FF all the like but they would do well to ponder one simple fact; the people at the top of are simply the tip of the ice berg.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

P. Breathnach

RichardAnd wrote: »

I agree that, right now, FG are destined to be the next party in power. Of course, between now and the next election (unless FF fall) alot could happen so it's not set in stone.

The opposition in Ireland have never had it easier. People are angry because they have been hit where it hurts the most; in the pocket. All the opposition parties have to do is say that FF and the bankers are to blame and make the average Joe feel like a victim.

But of course, the reality is far, far different. The fact is that FF were voted into power by doing precisely what people wanted them to do. I heard on the radio last summer, a woman on Joe Duffy complaining that FF should have attempted to curb the boom and prevent a reliance on construction. Well she was correct, they should have but if Ahern had done that he would probably have been voted out of power. And FG would jump on the band wagon by probably doing precisely what FF did to keep the boom alive.

FG or FF, it doesn't really matter. The boom and bust weren't caused simply the the greed of a few high people but the collective 10 year binge on money by 90% of people in this nation. The "Blame FF and the Bankers" argument utterly fails to address the sickening level greed, selfishness and dishonesty that took hold here...

I agree with the broad thrust of this, including the bit I have boldfaced. It is an interesting phenomenon that nearly everybody who posts here is one of the other 10%.

Taxipete29

ei.sdraob wrote: »

quadrupling welfare, free 3rd level education, larger public service, numerous quanqos

is right wing? :eek:

Free 3rd level education was brought in by Labour. The other 3 are the legacy of FF. Just so your not confused.

RichardAnd

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I agree with the broad thrust of this, including the bit I have boldfaced. It is an interesting phenomenon that nearly everybody who posts here is one of the other 10%.

Agreed, but bare in mind that this is a political forum. The fact that we're here at all means we have an interest in politics. The other 90% only have an interest, I would imagine, at times like these.

Overature

yeah that fact of the matter is that even thougth FF suck, it does not mean any other party are going to be any better, FG will get in power, do such a bad job and people will be whining for FF to get back in power and then we'll end up back where we started. we need brand new partys

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Laminations

Overature wrote: »

yeah that fact of the matter is that even thougth FF suck, it does not mean any other party are going to be any better, FG will get in power, do such a bad job and people will be whining for FF to get back in power and then we'll end up back where we started. we need brand new partys

So all parties suck. When FF **** up we are all reminded of this. No other party will do better. But you predict after FG inevitably mess up badly that we'll want FF back? So when FG hypothetically mess up we can magically think FF could do better (you said we'd want them back) but when FF have actually messed up, all parties are the same.

ei.sdraob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Free 3rd level education was brought in by Labour. The other 3 are the legacy of FF. Just so your not confused.

You are correct, thanks

Labour are certainly not right wing

dlofnep

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There are a number of interests which I do not believe that FF is looking out for, nor would FG look out for.

First is fair access to education - the current grant system is not fair, as it does not give a fair assessment of financial circumstances. Students are often left out, or forced to work long hours which impacts their education drastically - purely based on their parents income. This needs to change. I don't believe that FG is willing to change it.

Fair access to healthcare - Fine Gael's current Faircare proposals have a few questions, which need to be answered. They have failed to provide a clear and concise paper on their proposals. Fianna Fáil have allowed Mary Harney to continue to run down our healthcare system, in cut-and-slash politics - removing important facilities across various regions.

The interests of the workers - FG will never vest an interest in those of the workers. Only a few months ago, a Fine Gael councillor was caught exploiting a migrant for cheap labour. This does not demonstrate a desire to protect the most vulnerable in society. And rarely have I seen a local FG representative here attend demonstrations for workers, in a city well known for standing up for workers.

Fine Gael are not a welcome change from Fianna Fáil. They will promise much, but deliver nothing. There is a reason they have never succeeded in winning two concurrent elections.

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

quadrupling welfare, free 3rd level education, larger public service, numerous quanqos

is right wing? :eek:

I never stated Fianna Fáil were right wing. I stated that they engage in populist politics, as do Fine Gael.

By the way, Fianna Fáil did not introduce "free" 3rd level education. Infact, they doubled the registration fees, which caused a few of my friends and classmates to quit college because they could not afford the higher fees. Increased access to 3rd level education was a Labour initiative.

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

There are a number of interests which I do not believe that FF is looking out for, nor would FG look out for.

First is fair access to education - the current grant system is not fair, as it does not give a fair assessment of financial circumstances. Students are often left out, or forced to work long hours which impacts their education drastically - purely based on their parents income. This needs to change. I don't believe that FG is willing to change it.

god forbid our students have to work for a while flipping burgers

ive done it in my day, if anything it made me appreciate and concentrate on education more since i didnt want to be a burger boy for life

dlofnep wrote: »

Fair access to healthcare - Fine Gael's current Faircare proposals have a few questions, which need to be answered. They have failed to provide a clear and concise paper on their proposals. Fianna Fáil have allowed Mary Harney to continue to run down our healthcare system, in cut-and-slash politics - removing important facilities across various regions.

The interests of the workers - FG will never vest an interest in those of the workers. Only a few months ago, a Fine Gael councillor was caught exploiting a migrant for cheap labour. This does not demonstrate a desire to protect the most vulnerable in society. And rarely have I seen a local FG representative here attend demonstrations for workers, in a city well known for standing up for workers.

Fine Gael are not a welcome change from Fianna Fáil. They will promise much, but deliver nothing. There is a reason they have never succeeded in winning two concurrent elections.

Once again how does your SF crowd propose to address the above?

im very interested

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

god forbid our students have to work for a while flipping burgers

It's not an issue of "working" flipping burgers. Please don't be obtuse. It's about forcing students to work long hours, on account of having no government support - which directly affects their education. I've worked all through college - and have paid my entire way - but I've seen many who have been forced to quit college on account of lack of support.

The fact that mature students, who are intending to move to another county to study are assessed on their parents income, is ludicrous. So don't come on here, pretending to be naive - thinking that people are not struggling to make it into or through college due to financial concerns.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Once again how does your SF crowd propose to address the above?

We've consistently opposed attacks on facilities in our local hospitals. We've worked alongside workers, to work in their best interests since the inception of this state. And we certainly aren't going to impose mandatory private health insurance on people who cannot afford it.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

We've consistently opposed attacks on facilities in our local hospitals.

How about attacks on Gardai and their resources ?