I wanna race!

coolbeans

Hey all. I've been reading the racing threads with interest and I've decided that I wanna race. It'll likely be torture but I just wanna get out there and do it. Problems are; 1 I'm not a member of any clubs and 2. I don't have a licence. Can I race at all or will I have to wait till next September and join a club?

uberwolf

you can get a CI licence at any point, and race. Indeed, afaik you can still get 1 day licences and race with those in neutral clothing - make sure not to wear any pro gear to a race!

licence: With or without a club
full licence or club comp licence (as a beginner the club comp are v.user friendly IMO)

but depending on where you are based it is difficult to get into a club comp without being a member of a club.

Nietzschean

you can indeed just go along to any open race i've been to and get a 1 day licence, though a club league is probably a better place to start...

coolbeans

Thanks Uberwolf, I'm in Dublin and in Clonmel, Tipperary. I don't have any team gear so I'm assuming a solid blue Nalini shirt will do the job without offending any sensibilities. Are there any races you'd recommend for a newbie. I'll be aiming to finish...anything else will be a bonus.

bcmf

coolbeans wrote: »

Hey all. I've been reading the racing threads with interest and I've decided that I wanna race. It'll likely be torture but I just wanna get out there and do it. Problems are; 1 I'm not a member of any clubs and 2. I don't have a licence. Can I race at all or will I have to wait till next September and join a club?

Have you raced before? Have you been on club spins before? Sportives? Reading about them, watching them on tele and doing them are 2 VERY different things.how about the nxt sportive try and hang on to the fast group and see how you feel!!!
Telling your legs to 'shut up' maybe a great idea but seldom works unless you are Jens

coolbeans

Yes bcmf I've been on group rides before and completed a few triathlons (not comparable I know). I'm aware of the discipline needed in group rides so I'd be aiming to take it relatively easy, finish and not crash or cause a crash. Challenging Jens and Lance can wait till next year

blorg

Starting racing, depending on your fitness, you may find the bike handling in a fast moving bunch to be the biggest challenge. It is quite different from a club spin or sportive group. I would recommend joining a club and doing a club league; it is a much more gentle introduction than open racing and you learn the ropes with regard to the handling. In particular the bunches are smaller and it is also well handicapped. There may still be clubs taking members, it doesn't hurt to ask.

jdt101

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055890101

Good place to start. Separate A4 Race 54k, reasonably flat course.

mockler007

coolbeans wrote: »

Thanks Uberwolf, I'm in Dublin and in Clonmel, Tipperary. I don't have any team gear so I'm assuming a solid blue Nalini shirt will do the job without offending any sensibilities. Are there any races you'd recommend for a newbie. I'll be aiming to finish...anything else will be a bonus.

you can race me if you want coolbeans ?:rolleyes:

Lumen

I don't think at this stage in the season that open races need be avoided, as they seem to have calmed down a lot since March.

Just sit out at the back of the bunch and try and hang on. You'll suffer coming out of corners due to the concertina effect, but you get massive benefits from drafting and a lot more space.

There's a guide to group riding etiquette around somewhere. The main things are:

- Brake as little as possible, but when you do brake do so progressively. Try and manage your speed with your legs.

- Keep to the left hand side of the road unless you can see the road ahead is well clear and you're moving up to do something useful at the front.

- Hold your line through corners if you're in a group, or else you'll take out the person to your left. Again, try not to brake, and if you do need to slow down do so before the corner.

- If you're passing to someone's left, let them know "on your left".

- Before moving position, do a shoulder check (look behind you). There might be someone coming through.

- Try and manage your own space. If things are getting crazy in front of you, or you sense that the bunch is about to compress, ease off in anticipation and create some space.

- If you're bored by the pace, help drive it on a bit. If you get dropped just complete the rest of the course as fast as you can - you'll be stronger the next time.

- If you get a mechanical (e.g. puncture) raise your hand and carefully make your way to the left hand side of the road, waiting for the bunch to pass before stopping.

- Do what the old guys do, and do some of what they say.

- If you're suffering, other people are too. Just one more minute...

dario28

jdt101 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055890101

Good place to start. Separate A4 Race 54k, reasonably flat course.

What would the finish time / avg speed be for that 54k ???

kennyb3

Defo make sure you are ready to race before you do. have your interval and hill work done, make a sportive or two and plenty of group rides. I took up cycling this time last year did okay mileage wise, went on few swords group spins again did okay but only about 4 before i decided i was ready to race.

was grand doing 30 - 34 kmph in group spins etc, but 36 - 40kmph in a race is much different. basically i bit off more than i could chew and got dropped after 10k - anyway really put me off going back down and regrettably i just faded out of cycling and back to running. you want your first race to be a reasonable experience so my advice is wait till your ready.

just started back cycling this week and now hoping to combine it with running and maybe try a race again, much later in the season when im properly ready.

blorg

dario28 wrote: »

What would the finish time / avg speed be for that 54k ???

My two flat A4 races went at 39km/h (to be exact 38.8 and 39 respectively.) Note this bears no relation to what speed you can sustain on your own over that distance.

Ryaner

blorg wrote: »

My two flat A4 races went at 39km/h (to be exact 38.8 and 39 respectively.) Note this bears no relation to what speed you can sustain on your own over that distance.

How would that relate to a sportive? A lot of the sportives seem to average around the 30km mark for 100km.

kennyb3

i thought it would of been 34-35 kmph and this is what totally caught me out first time around. altho i was use to doing 30kmph on my own or 32kmph with a group - @ 38-39 i just felt flat out all the way and my legs and back were in bits after 10k or so.

dario28

Ryaner wrote: »

How would that relate to a sportive? A lot of the sportives seem to average around the 30km mark for 100km.

2nd half of that 100km tour de foothills 3 of us working together were doing high 30's to max of 51 on the flat

Lumen

If you want to know whether you're fast enough just go and do Cruagh.

We have stats from that for a bunch of A4s of different shapes and sizes.

Chips Lovell

You can buy a licence year-round as others have said.

While clubs generally prefer people to join over the winter, it may still be possible to join your local club and participate in their league. I joined my own club in the middle of the year and did my first league race in July. They were fine about it once they realised I wasn't a total beginner.

Raam

kennyb3 wrote: »

Defo make sure you are ready to race before you do. have your interval and hill work done, make a sportive or two and plenty of group rides. I took up cycling this time last year did okay mileage wise, went on few swords group spins again did okay but only about 4 before i decided i was ready to race.

was grand doing 30 - 34 kmph in group spins etc, but 36 - 40kmph in a race is much different. basically i bit off more than i could chew and got dropped after 10k - anyway really put me off going back down and regrettably i just faded out of cycling and back to running. you want your first race to be a reasonable experience so my advice is wait till your ready.

just started back cycling this week and now hoping to combine it with running and maybe try a race again, much later in the season when im properly ready.

Kenny, I got unceremoniously dumped out the back of my first four races. It can sometimes take a few races to get to grips with the pace and the fluctuation of speed. Eventually you learn how to suffer that bit longer and hang in there. Then it becomes your turn to cause the pain. For my money, the only way to get race fit is to race. Doing your own training will definitely help bring you there, but the races will fine tune it and bring you up a level. Give it another go

Chips Lovell

+1 I got shelled in my first few league races. It does take a while to adjust. Coming back week after week and trying to hang in that little bit longer is one of the best ways of finding your racing legs.

kennyb3

Thanks for the encouragement Raam and el tonto, in a way its kind of encouraging to hear it happens to others. To be honest i felt really stupid that night and didnt really wanna show my face again but i guess if lads behind have seen it happen to others then i guess its not total humiliation. i just thought i wasnt cut out for cycling. i ll prob give it another go later on in the year and see what happens. might try group 1 this time though as i was in group 2 that night because id been doing okay on the half 8 sat spins.

shaungil

Agree with Raam, best way to learn to race is to race. Learn to suffer and keep whees. Swords will take members at any stage and League only 1 race in.
My bro started this year and was keen to race but told him to wait for Club League as it's a great way to learn and think it will stand to him

Lumen

...

El Tonto, quoting Samuel Beckett wrote:

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

blorg

For what it's worth the limit (beginner) group in our club league would go a fair bit slower than A4, around 35-36km/h- and the races are shorter (35-45km.)

There is no shame in being dropped on your first race(s) and as the others say you will only get better by doing them. A lot is learning how to position yourself and hold a wheel, it is by no means all about your strength.

A key difference to a sportive or group spin is getting used to the sudden changes in pace, you need to be able to react immediately and not let the wheel in front of you go no matter what. As a clubmate said to me it is a choice of suffering for 30 seconds to hang on or 30 minutes to chase because you didn't suffer for those 30 seconds.

Ideally in a handicap the groups should be doing up and overs in an organised fashion to avoid being caught but this often doesn't happen in the lower groups. Key is to try to stay near the front but not at the front (for long anyway.) But if there is anyone willing to do an organised rotation get in, participate and do some work.

If you are further back the leaders will go around the corners at full speed, followers progressively slower, and you will have to sprint to get back on. It is actually very very difficult to hang on at the back if there are any corners.

Although not so obvious it is far easier to stay near the front and participate in a rotation. You do a small bit of work, and then recover. You know when your turn is coming up and can prepare for it. The pace is far more smooth. Even if the hangers on are doing no work they are actually having a harder time of it. It is a lot safer up there too as crashes happen behind you.

RobFowl

blorg wrote: »

Even if the hangers on are doing no work they are actually having a harder time of it.

Not always true, there are a good few Swords riders who have it down to a fine art ....

coolbeans

mockler007 wrote: »

you can race me if you want coolbeans ?:rolleyes:

Ahhh...no! I don't race baggies.

shaungil

Not always true, there are a good few Swords riders who have it down to a fine art ....

I thought we were going to keep the abuse of Delboy and Staro within the Swords race thread but if you insist.......

RobFowl

shaungil wrote: »

Not always true, there are a good few Swords riders who have it down to a fine art ....

I thought we were going to keep the abuse of Delboy and Staro within the Swords race thread but if you insist.......

Was thinking of someone else but.......

Toblerone1978

coolbeans wrote: »

Thanks Uberwolf, I'm in Dublin and in Clonmel, Tipperary.

Try the Comeragh CC league, which is pretty near Clonmel, see their website. Starting on Tuesday 11 May. I don't know if they allowed unattached, but you could always join them.

hynesie

I think this article is worth a read: http://www.gamjams.net/2008/09/so-you-think-yo.html

gimmeaminute

That's a pretty depressing article. I can't do any of that stuff, particularly the bunny hoping, and my bike is currently squeaking like a violated mouse.

I guess I'll stick to being the World Champion my house to my work Time Trialist.

Chips Lovell

gimmeaminute wrote: »

That's a pretty depressing article. I can't do any of that stuff, particularly the bunny hoping, and my bike is currently squeaking like a violated mouse.

I guess I'll stick to being the World Champion my house to my work Time Trialist.

There's some decent advice there but some of it is OTT. I guarantee you, most of the people lining out for an A4 race wouldn't be able to ride with no hands or bunny hop a crisp packet.

dario28

When is the next open A4 in the pale ?

dont fancy travelling to Cork boy , just for an hour or so racing

Lumen

dario28 wrote: »

When is the next open A4 in the pale ?

dont fancy travelling to Cork boy , just for an hour or so racing

Here

Ryaner

dario28 wrote: »

2nd half of that 100km tour de foothills 3 of us working together were doing high 30's to max of 51 on the flat

There were some VERY fast sections a the end of that sportive. I was on my own for the last 20km and was exiting some of the roundabouts at 45km+ when I looked. The windy section did drop my average way off.

Lumen wrote: »

If you want to know whether you're fast enough just go and do Cruagh.

We have stats from that for a bunch of A4s of different shapes and sizes.

Cruagh times all depend on the wind on the day. Times can differ by a couple of minutes depending on the direction of the wind. Trust me, when a strong northerly wind comes, I'm there to set a blistering time up.

For the racing, how long does the season last? Would clubs be open to someone starting in July?

Lumen

Ryaner wrote: »

Cruagh times all depend on the wind on the day. Times can differ by a couple of minutes depending on the direction of the wind. Trust me, when a strong northerly wind comes, I'm there to set a blistering time up.

Well yes, but you can feel the wind and adjust your time to get a rough idea. My point was that regardless of weather, if it takes you 25 mins @ 70kg you need to train a lot more, whereas if it takes you 18 minutes @80kg you'll be up the front bringing the pain.

kennyb3

Ryaner wrote: »

For the racing, how long does the season last? Would clubs be open to someone starting in July?

Should be no problem, i think my only race was the 2nd last one of the swords races. I ll prob try an earlier one this year tho - wish id done some spins over the winter now tho.

the encouragement received above has defo made me consider trying again

RobFowl

Hi Kenny
Def give it another go. Next wed we're using a flattish circuit and if you get joined up we'll get you sorted for group 1 ....

Raam

kennyb3 wrote: »

Should be no problem, i think my only race was the 2nd last one of the swords races. I ll prob try an earlier one this year tho - wish id done some spins over the winter now tho.

the encouragement received above has defo made me consider trying again

No harm about falling out the back on one of those. Everyone was probably flying at that stage. And I recall the last few were quite hilly (Three Sisters) so the pain was being brought left right and center

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

There's some decent advice there but some of it is OTT. I guarantee you, most of the people lining out for an A4 race wouldn't be able to ride with no hands

Doesn't stop some of them trying. If you see someone doing this in front of you I would give him plenty of room and make sure you have mentally committed your quickest line around him and his bike skidding across the tarmac

kennyb3

RobFowl wrote: »

Hi Kenny
Def give it another go. Next wed we're using a flattish circuit and if you get joined up we'll get you sorted for group 1 ....

thanks been off the bike a while so might come a bit soon but i might try get back down for the half 8 spins to help get back up to fitness.

@raam - never even considered the races might be faster later in the season. if i try get in now might be better chance.

shaungil

@ Kenny there's a lot of new faces this year in Swords league including a lot of Boards so best to get back as soon as you can. The Beasty Express will pull you round.

coolbeans

OP here. I'm very encouraged and thankful for the range of responses. I've reached a few conclusions;
1 - The first is that I'll struggle to finish the first few races so it's important not to be discouraged when I feel the pain.
2 - I must train harder. Much harder. Intervals will do a lot I suspect. That's easier said than done though.
3 - The etiquette of racing is vital. I'll try to go out in more group spins so I don't cut people up and run the risk of causing a crash. Not cool. I've heard A4 can be a bit hairy with so many newbies so my aims will be to finish (eventually) and to gain confidence in a group. I don't want me or my bike ending up like this

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

Hi Kenny
Def give it another go. Next wed we're using a flattish circuit and if you get joined up we'll get you sorted for group 1 ....

Not only flat - it's short also - 30km - 3 x 10km laps. It was the race I had planned to debut in, before Eyjafjallajoekull scuppered this week's travel plans, leaving me free for last night's event

RobFowl

Beasty wrote: »

Not only flat - it's short also - 30km - 3 x 10km laps. It was the race I had planned to debut in, before Eyjafjallajoekull scuppered this week's travel plans, leaving me free for last night's event

Watch out for the chubby sprinters

blorg

coolbeans wrote: »

1 - The first is that I'll struggle to finish the first few races so it's important not to be discouraged when I feel the pain.

The best training is racing. I don't train at all myself; keep meaning to start some time.

Just throw yourself in to a club league and you should come along very fast.

Ryaner

Could you get away with a 50x11 in the club races or will you end up spinning out on some of the flat sections?

For the Swords CC members, how many group rides would you need to head out on before they'd let you race? And do you need to have gotten the licence back from CI before you can?

Raam

Ryaner wrote: »

Could you get away with a 50x11 in the club races or will you end up spinning out on some of the flat sections?

For the Swords CC members, how many group rides would you need to head out on before they'd let you race? And do you need to have gotten the licence back from CI before you can?

You will be fine with 50x11. Dunno the answers to the other questions.
I never did any group spins with Swords before racing. Although I had done plenty elsewhere.

Beasty

Ryaner wrote: »

Could you get away with a 50x11 in the club races or will you end up spinning out on some of the flat sections?

For the Swords CC members, how many group rides would you need to head out on before they'd let you race? And do you need to have gotten the licence back from CI before you can?

I did last Wednesday on 50x11 no problem
I have been on 1 club spin, but it's not a requirement - all you need is club membership and to pay for the league licence (€30 for the season, or (I think) €5 per race - you can pay this on the day)

Raam

Beasty wrote: »

I did last Wednesday on 50x11 no problem
I have been on 1 club spin, but it's not a requirement - all you need is club membership and to pay for the league licence (€30 for the season, or (I think) €5 per race)

3e per race if you are a club member and want to pay per race. At least, it was last year.

RobFowl

Ryaner wrote: »

For the Swords CC members, how many group rides would you need to head out on before they'd let you race? And do you need to have gotten the licence back from CI before you can?

What Beasty (Edit and RAAM) said !

You need a licence with a minimum of Club Competition and need to physically have it before you can race. No obligation to head out on a group spin before but it is advisable if you haven't ridden in large groups before.