Fingal CoCo buys 400.000K Home in The Naul for Traveller Family

sNarah

Firstly, this post is not meant to be offensive in any way, I'm just looking to share some opinions on the location for this specific property + the (what I believe) excessive purchasing price of the property for this purpose.

In today's Fingal Indepedent:

Council buy €400k home for one family

Purchase for Travellers defended by Cllr Devitt

By Fergal MADDOCK

Wednesday April 21 2010

FINGAL County Council is set to fork out close to 400,000 for a four-bed detached bungalow in Naul to accommodate a single family from the Travelling community. At a time of severe council cutbacks, the purchase will be funded through the local authority's Traveller Accommodation Programme, which is financed by the Department of Environment.

Firstly I believe 400.000k is way too much to spend on rehousing this family, especially considering that there are plenty of new build premises at much lower prices in the greater Fingal area (ranging anywhere between 180.000 to 250.000). It seems to me it is a hell of a lot of money to be forking out by the council. Fair enough, they will receive some form of funding by the appropriate government funds but these days you can find a perfectly suited family home for half the price.

Secondly, I find this area a particular strange choice for housing a travelling family. The house is located in a very rural "isolated" area in a small, settled community. I'm not sure if this will be work in regards to integrating the family into society for that specific reason. Also, The Naul has very few facilities as it is only a wee village and the house is a good 5 miles out of the Naul.

Any thought or opinions on both comments, other feedback or remarks?

Ps: Mods, if you feel this thread is inappropiate, my aplologies and please lock if neccessary. Thanks.

sdanseo

A €400k council house? Get real, FCC. That's just plain wasteful.

Without being judgmental on these particular travellers - any I've ever come across (including a family who wee put into a house on my road after the IDIOT who lived there willed it to FCC) have been thieves, vandals and scroungers who generate nothing but a nuisance to locals.

All well if these guys are different; they may well be the salt of the earth. But it's too much to spend on social housing. A 3-bed apartment in Belmayne atm is €199,000 - three times closer to the city.

Elliee

Ridiculous amount of money.
We are currently a family getting by on my partners dole claim and we couldnt even get bin tags out of the Coco.
Shocked is an understatement.
They could of bought 2 if not close on 3 NEW homes for this price. Currently number 1300 and something on the council housing list. Hopefully ill get bought such a house when my time comes. :rolleyes:

Martron

tough comment to topic on.

i dont agree with it. but i know the not in my backyard brigade will complain too.

very tough.

fingal seem to be making some bad decisions lately. but i think we are finally scrutnising our goverment like we always should have been.

bcmf

between that and the lead story with North County Leader I have to say that I am utterly disgusted. As said above they pulled the bin tags from those on the dole then go on a jolly to Brazil and buy a house for over 400k.
Astounding.

Bluetonic

Regardless of the fact the content is now premium, if you want to provoke debate lets have the full story from the Fingal Independent, not some preview which gives little or no facts into the matter.

Why did Devitt defend the purchase?

What other alternatives were looked at? Why were these not implemented?

The house is five miles out of Naul in what direction? Clonalvy?

Lets see the full story.

bcmf

from what I saw on the website it is based at Kitchenstown which is in an area called the Bog of the Ring and based on 3.4acres of land.

Frank Spencer

The house in question is here and here

Martron

Well frank if that is the houses. its an absolute outrage.

many people in their lifetime would hope to get a house like that.

i just dont think politicians are living in the real world at all. i have often seen houses given to traveller families then wrecked. An issue in ringsend spring to mind. a few other settlements do to.

anyway its too much. We cant even get our street lights working ( ) and they get a mansion on land.

I personally would hope that this property is looked after, and if not they should be forced to leave. ( this is my view on any social housing) as there are people out there who treat the house like their own and then there are others who wreck it.

sNarah

Bluetonic wrote: »

Regardless of the fact the content is now premium, if you want to provoke debate lets have the full story from the Fingal Independent, not some preview which gives little or no facts into the matter.

Why did Devitt defend the purchase?

What other alternatives were looked at? Why were these not implemented?

The house is five miles out of Naul in what direction? Clonalvy?

Lets see the full story.

Sorry for only quoting the headline as I can't access the main story.

Devitt defended the purchase saying it is not an excessive amount of money to spend on a family home and that the price is normal.

No other alternatives were metionned in the article and the council does not have to discuss these purchases with the sitting TD's.

Ah no, not 5 miles towards Clonalvy Though I can see why you would presume I am trying to stirr up the heat because I don't want travellers in my area. Which I'm not. I'm trying to see if other people agree with -what I find - this being an excessive amount of money to be spend by the council. And on how the location is somewhat odd.

Martron

case and point of of politicians not living in the real world.

400k for a family home is not normal.

For example there is great house on palmer avenue , 4 bed. going for 289950. and i would imagine you get some off that again, not that i am suggesting that they move in there but i think you know what i mean.

T-Maxx

Martron wrote: »

case and point of of politicians not living in the real world.

400k for a family home is not normal.

For example there is great house on palmer avenue , 4 bed. going for 289950. and i would imagine you get some off that again, not that i am suggesting that they move in there but i think you know what i mean.

Do you seriously think a traveler family could live in one of them Palmer Ave semi-dee's?

Eoineo

NB - I will comment on a separate post.

Headline: Purchase for Travellers defended by Cllr Devitt

Fingal County Council is set to fork out close to €400,000 for a four-bed detached bungalow in Naul to accommodate a single family from the Travelling Community.

At a time of severe council cutbacks, the purchase will be funded through the local authority's Traveller Accommodation Programme, which is financed by the Department of Environment.

It is understood that the property at Kitchenstown, Naul which is situated on 3.4 acres, had previously been on the market for a significantly higher price.

Fine Gael councellor Anne Devitt, who is a member of the Local Traveller Accommodation Consultative Committee defended the price paid for the property.
"€400,000 seems a pretty good price. I don't think it is an excessive price." she told the Fingal Independent.
"There is nothing unusual about it. Any money paid out will be reimbursed by the Department of the Environment."

A number of councillors when contacted by the Fingal Independent were unaware of the decision by the local authority to buy the property.

It follows onto page 2 - with a rehash of the front page & then says (quoting Anne Devitt again):

She said she was aware the council had been looking for a house in a rural setting for a particular family for some particular time.

"We do have a budget for this. We pay the price and we are reimbursed. Different families have different needs," she said.

She said it had always been the way the council didn't have to seek approval from councillors before making a purchase. "It doesn't tie their hands because if people become aware the council is interested, the price could be bumped up."

Rehashes the fact that councillors weren't aware of the purchase & the fact that permission from councillors isn't sought for purchases but is sought for disposals.

A council spokesperson said it had an obligation to provide homes for members of the Travelling community in line with the Travellor Accommodation Programme.

"Our Traveller Accommodation Programme allows us to provide upt ot three one-off homes per year over the lifetime of the plan.

"In this and every case any single house is purchased with a particular family in mind and each family is fully vetted before moving into that house," the spokes person explained.

"The Traveller Accommodation Programme is agreed by Fingal County councillors and directly funded by the Department of the Environment Heritage and Local Government and not from the council's revenue budget."

One local resident has written to Fingal County Council and a number of councillors, condemning the decision.

"To place a family from the community into such a small, settled community with no amenities (nearest shop two miles, nearest bus/train station five miles away) seems to display a complete lack of understanding of exactly what rural living is."

Eoineo

My Response & please bear in mind I am very familiar with the area and I have family in Kitchenstown.

I have a few issues:

1. The fact that there is a 3.4 acre site as part of the sale.
What do the council propose to do with the site? It is a very real concern that they will apply for or there will be either an official or unofficial halting site at that location.

Kitchenstown is a small rural community of just over 20 houses spread over quite a wide area. Imagine what would happen if the population practically doubled overnight?

2. The lack of services in the area

The roads are in extremely bad condition. Kitchenstown was nearly impassable during the freeze in January & when the weather is bad. We slid down the hill sideways more than once when attempting to visit and check on family members.

All residents are dependant on septic tank type arrangements. There are no mains sewerage. How many people do they propose to put into the house AND the land and is the current foul water facility up to that.

There are no footpaths. No way of walking safely to the nearest village (Naul), or nearest bus/rail route (Balbriggan).

3. The amount of money spent
The property was originally marketed 2.5 years ago for excess €1.2 million IIRC. The council think that getting it for €400K is a bargain considering the original price.

Okay so they will get the purchase price back from the Dept of Environment.

How much will they spend kitting out the house though - which will come under the remit of Council funds? I believe that the council have a "clean slate" policy for new properties which involves them gutting all the fittings and starting from scratch!

I have loads more to say but I'm going to take a deep breath & a break from typing.

Martron

T-Maxx wrote: »

Do you seriously think a traveler family could live in one of them Palmer Ave semi-dee's?

i was talking about more value for money. but why is it becasue they are travellers they get the royal treatment

The Hill Billy

To prevent this thread flying off in the wrong direction & getting locked - please keep this thread to a discussion about FCC not spending our tax euro wisely.

Thanks,

HB

Sizzler

I think the real story is here is the house price, €400k for a house in The Naul, seriously? WTF?

LeoB

This is a scandal. WTF is happening to our country?

1) Its to much money to spend imo
2) If they want to settle a family settle them in a council house on an estate.
3) I know a few traveller families who are settled and they are decent enough. I know another who are filthy and disruptive and should be caged but back to the op

So how many people here are going to write to the council to complain? I will do my letter tonight and also send email on the grounds they are wasting money

It would be interesting to see the terms and conditions of the sale and what criteria is laid down for the people who are walking into it. I had to threathen the council with papers to get them to give me a go ahead for a granny flat going back 15yrs ago.

This just stinks. Lets hope people remember this when we get the next "Council Tax" and when Ms Devitt goes for election next time.

Alan Farrell

LeoB wrote: »

This is a scandal. WTF is happening to our country?

1) Its to much money to spend imo
2) If they want to settle a family settle them in a council house on an estate.
3) I know a few traveller families who are settled and they are decent enough. I know another who are filthy and disruptive and should be caged but back to the op

So how many people here are going to write to the council to complain? I will do my letter tonight and also send email on the grounds they are wasting money

It would be interesting to see the terms and conditions of the sale and what criteria is laid down for the people who are walking into it. I had to threathen the council with papers to get them to give me a go ahead for a granny flat going back 15yrs ago.

This just stinks. Lets hope people remember this when we get the next "Council Tax" and when Ms Devitt goes for election next time.

I will have to tentatively agree with you on this Leo, I don't recall being briefed on it but it would appear a very high price to pay for a single traveller accommodation unit.

The committee has made or will make a decision based on the best available information and the recommendation of the manager, Cllr Devitt cannot be solely blamed for this as the committee has other Councillors on it, including Clare Daly.

LeoB

You have to see Alan why people are so frustrated with what is happening. We hear on the news today that "Fingers" got €55,000 a month for the first 4 months last year, then a top up of €1,000,000. Mr Boucher gets his massive bonus for his role and Fingal splash out €400,000 on a house for 1 family. Everything about this purchase stinks from where the house is, lack of facilities and amenities.

However its not suprising as Fingal seem to have a covert plan of sorts to house people (travellers). Like a house in Rush which was rented from a man with a guarenteed income for 3 or 5 years and he agreed untill his phone started hopping as the new tennents had caused a lot of annoyance around the corner in the previous house. The man who agreed to join the scheme is furious as each side of the terrraced house are elderly people.

I would always encourage the lads at work and my friends to vote but how can we expect people to have faith in our elected representatives when we see this happen

As for Anne Devitt, did she not have an issue a few years ago with some sort of half way house or sheltered accomadation being put beside her? You cant excuse her because Clare Daly is also on the committee. Think you know my views on socialist Daly!! Who else is on the committee?

sNarah

Sizzler wrote: »

I think the real story is here is the house price, €400k for a house in The Naul, seriously? WTF?

Strangly enough this is WELL below the going rate for The Naul. For some reason prices there are nearly double in comparison to neighouring areas. Suppose you pay extra for a "lovely rural setting"?

LeoB wrote: »

This is a scandal. WTF is happening to our country?

1) Its to much money to spend imo Agreed
2) If they want to settle a family settle them in a council house on an estate. Agreed
3) I know a few traveller families who are settled and they are decent enough. I know another who are filthy and disruptive and should be caged but back to the op

So how many people here are going to write to the council to complain? I will do my letter tonight and also send email on the grounds they are wasting money
For once I actually feel compelled to do so. Will look into it.

It would be interesting to see the terms and conditions of the sale and what criteria is laid down for the people who are walking into it. I had to threathen the council with papers to get them to give me a go ahead for a granny flat going back 15yrs ago.

This just stinks. Lets hope people remember this when we get the next "Council Tax" and when Ms Devitt goes for election next time.

Alan Farrell wrote: »

I will have to tentatively agree with you on this Leo, I don't recall being briefed on it but it would appear a very high price to pay for a single traveller accommodation unit.
To quote the article "The house is choosen for specific reasons for this specific traveller family as it meet their needs". Which I find scary reading. TBH, anyone would like a house like that! The truth is, few of us can afford it. Let it alone have it given to us for free.

The committee has made or will make a decision based on the best available information and the recommendation of the manager, Cllr Devitt cannot be solely blamed for this as the committee has other Councillors on it, including Clare Daly.

Apparently the council can decide on these purchases without having to discuss them with the sitting TD's.

T-Maxx

Sizzler wrote: »

I think the real story is here is the house price, €400k for a house in The Naul, seriously? WTF?

If you think €400k for a 4 bed house on 3.4 acre in the Naul is too much, I suggest you do some browsing on Daft.ie and Myhome.ie - you're in for a shock.

The real issue here IMO is whether this kind of expense on a single traveller family can be justified, and the answer is NO.

cathy01

Any advice on how to show our disaproval?
Write to them all, it would be just a waste of paper.
cathy

sNarah

cathy01 wrote: »

Any advice on how to show our disaproval?
Write to them all, it would be just a waste of paper.
cathy

I'm afraid writing will not change anything, I'm under the impression the transaction is completed so... But this doens't mean you can't put to them in writing any concerns you might have. Wether they will answer or take note of these considerations is a different story.

bcmf

cathy01 wrote: »

Any advice on how to show our disaproval?

Some sort of petion-either online or not- and drag it into the media....

Frank Spencer

sNarah wrote: »

I'm afraid writing will not change anything, I'm under the impression the transaction is completed so... But this doens't mean you can't put to them in writing any concerns you might have. Wether they will answer or take note of these considerations is a different story.

Correct, the SOLD sign is up.

Martron

T-Maxx wrote: »

If you think €400k for a 4 bed house on 3.4 acre in the Naul is too much, I suggest you do some browsing on Daft.ie and Myhome.ie - you're in for a shock.

The real issue here IMO is whether this kind of expense on a single traveller family can be justified, and the answer is NO.

i think you are missing the point.

why does it have to be a house on 3.4 acres.

its great value for money in the naul but not for the houses that also could have housed them .

hitman79

For 400k they could have bought one of the many ghost estates lying empty all over the country. Its a joke and this is the same council that want €30k off me in fees before i can build my house. :mad:

T-Maxx

Well, to be honest I think FCC bought a bargain. The rest of the 3.4 acre can be developed and more housing units could be built.

Remember that the property doesn't actually gets transferred to the occupants, it always stays the property of the council.

Frank Spencer

T-Maxx wrote: »

Well, to be honest I think FCC bought a bargain. The rest of the 3.4 acre can be developed and more housing units could be built.

Remember that the property doesn't actually gets transferred to the occupants, it always stays the property of the council.

What would be the point in building council houses in the middle of nowhere?

Martron

well they should have had a plan ready as a press release. to save all this.

i doubt there is any development plan, and they would want to release it if there was to save a lot of trouble.