Edwin Valero found dead?

Spazdarn

Reports from some Spanish forums are saying that he was found hung in his cell by his clothing...

Dunno the validity of the reports to be honest but...

Big Ears

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=23534&more=1

nacho libre

From Wikipedia :
Edwin Valero (December 3, 1981 - April 19, 2010) was born in Bolero Alto, and raised in El Vigía, [both locations in Mérida, Venezuela]) was an undefeated southpaw boxer who fought in the super featherweight (130 lb) division until he moved up to lightweight. His professional boxing record was 27-0 (27 KOs, 19 of which occurred in the first round). Valero is a former WBA Super Featherweight champion and former WBC Lightweight champion who was known by boxing fans for his style and punching power.

Spazdarn

http://www.eluniversal.com/2010/04/19/suc_ava_aparece-muerto-el-bo_19A37
63411.shtml

Caracas Caracas .- .- At 1:30 am today found dead boxer Edwin "Inca"
Valero in the cells of the Carabobo Police, who was arrested yesterday for killing his Carolina Valero wife Jennifer, as reported by the director of the Cicpc, Wilmer Flores Trossel.

"A prisoner was in an adjacent area, heard noises inside the cell and participates in the police, who immediately approached and observed the body of the boxer" Inca "Valero hung using their own clothing to hang himself and a fixed point grille of his cell, "he said in an interview with VTV Trossel.

He explained that according to official versions of the "Inca" Valero still had vital signs but later lost his life by mechanical asphyxia by hanging. "

He said the Forensic Science Unit, Criminal Investigation and prosecution are in the dungeons of Policarabobo to perform the autopsy of law "and establish the true result or the cause of death of the boxer Edwin Valero is happening today at 1:30 hours in the morning. "

He recalled that yesterday, "then listen to the expert performing the versions of witnesses and" Inca "Valero said responsibility for the death of his young wife of 24 years, the practice of detention and puts the Ministry of Public Order. "

"We made some tests of recognition of law, the boxer and is held in the custody of the police regional de Carabobo" he said.

He said that has not yet been located the gun that killed the young 24 years old. "We are tracking all the rooms in search of the murder weapon."

"Inca" Valero being held at the headquarters of Policarabobo and today at nine in the morning would be filing its hearing in the Supreme Court for his involvement in the murder of his wife.

Google translated but it doesn't look good...

joker77

It's on a few news sites so must be confirmed at this stage

Bob the Seducer

From USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2010-04-18-valero-arrest_N.htm

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Police say former boxing champ Edwin Valero has killed himself in his jail cell just hours after he was arrested in his wife's killing.
The former lightweight champion used his own clothes to hang himself in his cell early Monday, Venezuelan Federal Police Chief Wilmer Flores told reporters.

He said Valero tied his clothes to a cell bar to hang himself. He said Valero was found by another inmate, who alerted authorities in the police lockup in north-central Carabobo state.

Valero still showed signs of life, but they were unable to save him, Flores said.

The 28-year-old fighter was detained Sunday on suspicion of killing his wife, the latest in a string of problems that had threatened his career.

Prosecutors said Sunday night that they had planned to charge Valero in the killing.

Flores said Valero was arrested after police found the body of his 20-year-old wife in a hotel in Valencia. Valero left the hotel room around dawn on Sunday and allegedly told security that he had killed Jennifer Viera, Flores said.

MrStuffins

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/19/edwin-valero-kills-himself-wife

Edwin Valero, the suspended WBC lightweight champion, has killed himself in jail just hours after being arrested on suspicion of his wife's murder, according to police.

Venezuela's Federal Police Chief Wilmer Flores said Valero used his own clothes to hang himself in his cell early today. The boxer had been arrested after police found the body of his wife in a hotel in the Venezuelan city of Valencia.

Flores said Valero left the hotel room around dawn yesterday and allegedly told the hotel's security personnel that he had killed her. Valero's lawyer, Milda Mora, did not immediately answer telephone calls seeking comment.

Valero, with a record of 27-0, was suspended by the WBC lightweight in February. He was arrested last month on charges of harassing his wife and threatening hospital staff treating her for a punctured lung and broken ribs. He then went into drug and alcohol rehabilitation.

walshb

Good riddance to the filthy animal.

wireless101

sick waste of talent

cowzerp

RIP both him and his wife..
very sad story

walshb

Talent? Well, to me he still had to prove himslef against world beaters.

I found him quite ordinary, crude, wild and predictable. He never
impressed me. Most of his wins were against cans.

nacho libre

i wonder given the fact Valero was a national hero and close to the president did the authorities there treat him differently than they would another citizen who had brushes with the law. that's the suggestion from some sources, of course some of these may well be anything but objective given some of his domestic critics liken Chavez to Hitler.

Spazdarn

He had potential, he was raw enough but his last fight was against a boxer of worth so he might have amounted to something... I guess we'll never know

Tragic story

richierichballs

I find this whole thing shocking,
People who are forgetting who are the real victims here,
His two children in the space of 24hours have lost both there parents under circumstances that shouldn't have happened.
Them Kids will have to live with this for the rest of there lifes,
Who is gonna explain this **** to them?
I find it hard to have sympathy for Edwin, he was obviously sick,
but he refused help.
It should of never got to this, He should of been taken in after he assaulted her first,
His family wanted him to go to rehab for treatment on drug and alcohol abuse, he wouldn't do it,
I never suspected him of being able to commit a murder though,
But hell I didn't know the guy, Anyway it is a tragic story,
I hope his children will be okay......

Spazdarn

The beating her around wasn't the worst of it, he reportedly shot her a few years ago too...

JP Liz V1

Venezuelan champion boxer Edwin Valero has hanged himself with his own clothes from the bars of a prison cell where he had been detained for killing his wife.

Valero - who held the World Boxing Council lightweight title until recently going for alcohol rehabilitation - was found in his cell with some signs of life but did not survive, said police chief Wilmer Flores Trosel.
"A prisoner nearby heard noises inside the cell and told officials, who immediately went and found the boxer Valero hanging with his own clothes," Flores told state TV.
The 28-year-old father of two, nicknamed "The Inca", was charged on Sunday with stabbing his wife to death in a room at the InterContinental Hotel in the city of Valencia.
Police said he had confessed to the murder of Jennifer Carolina Viera de Valero, 24.
Valero had a troubled start to 2010, detained in March for mistreating his wife and then receiving treatment for alcohol problems. He was listed by the WBC as its "champion in recess" in the lightweight category.
His representative, Hilmar Rojas, told Reuters he had come out of a five-day rehab stint earlier in April and was due to fly to Cuba for more treatment.
But that trip was delayed after he had a car crash.
"This is a terrible loss for Venezuela, and especially for his family," she said. Valero had two children, a seven-year-old boy and a five-year-old girl.
A high-profile supporter of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, Valero had a national flag with an image of Chavez tattooed on his chest, and once shadow-boxed in jest with the president.
Valero's manager, Jose Castillo, said the boxer should never have been allowed out of the rehabilitation centre.
"This is a huge tragedy for the world of boxing, we are so sad," he said.
The president of Venezuela's Boxing Federation, Fran Lopez, said Valero's unfulfilled potential would forever be lamented, but he had only himself to blame.
"We thought he could give a lot of joy to the nation and to boxing, but now that will never be the case, it's a situation out of all our hands," he said.
"The 'Inca' Valero is the only one responsible for what happened, for his behaviour."

RIP him and his wife

Boooourns

Sad story, that motorbike fall must have really messed him up. I was really looking forward to following his career as he was never boring but then he just went crazy.
He really should have been locked away in rehab or jail as the attacks were getting more common and his poor Wife must have had a terrible last few weeks of her life. I remember they showed a few closeups of her in the DeMarco fight and thinking she looked terrified and i put it down to her being very shy but there was probably more to it.

joepenguin

RIP to both of them. Tragic!

digme

Crazy bastard,feel sorry for his poor old wife and kids and everyone involved.Police should have had him under watch the stupid pricks.

walshb

It seems that Edwin isn't without his supporters

Andre Berto just tweeted the following:

@AndreBerto -- 9:51am 4/19/10
R.I.P to Edwin Valero after killing his wife yesturday he just killed himself in jail today. WOW women are a Mother****er boy RIP E.V.


Lowlife ****er!

Bob the Seducer

walshb wrote: »

It seems that Edwin isn't without his supporters

Andre Berto just tweeted the following:

@AndreBerto -- 9:51am 4/19/10
R.I.P to Edwin Valero after killing his wife yesturday he just killed himself in jail today. WOW women are a Mother****er boy RIP E.V.


Lowlife ****er!

Unsurprisingly, he's rowed back on that now...

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of Edwin Valero and Jennifer Viera!!
less than 20 seconds ago via UberTwitter


Everyone who knows me knows that I love and respect all women and to those who were offended earlier, I apologize.
1 minute ago via UberTwitter

magma69

This is a tragedy for all parties involved. It's easy to get high and mighty and call EV a piece of **** scumbag but it is obviousl the guy was seriously mentally ill. He should have been put away from his family by the authorities after the beating incident. He should have been on suicide watch while in the can (the thought of him topping himself crossed my mind yesterday. Complete incompetence by the authorites.

I am certain the brain damage from the crash has had a serious affect on his personality. I wonder if he had issues before that crash. I'm not excusing what he did but rather explaining it. Two people are dead and there are children without a mother or father, it's sickening.

That comment by Berto is one of most classless things I have heard come out of a boxer's mouth (which is saying a lot). Imagine someone said something of the same nature about his family killed by the earthquake. Gob****e :mad:

RIP to both.:(

jolter

tragic, this guy must of had serious issues

walshb

kenmonu wrote: »

tragic, this guy must of had serious issues

He had one issue, he was a ****ing scumbag!

I have no problem with folks trying to find out the whys and the hows to crime; but sometimes,
it's a simple case of a bad and evil person committing a heinous act.

Valero had a history of being a nasty piece of work.

It reminds me of Chris Rock when he was doing a stand up and he
started to talk about gun killing and in particular, school shootings.
He was wondering why so many were trying to find out why, and how, and what tv
programme or video game or cartoon character could have caused these teens to
do such terrible things. He then said, "whatever happened to ****ing crazy?"

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

He had one issue, he was a ****ing scumbag!

I have no problem with folks trying to find out the whys and the hows to crime; but sometimes,
it's a simple case of a bad and evil person committing a heinous act.

Valero has a history of being a nasty piece of work.

perhaps. that's why i'd like know was he in trouble with the law before his motorbike accident. it could be as you say that he was just a nasty brat, but there have been cases where mild- mannered, civilised men have become violent and disruptive people due to severe head trauma.
whatever the cause, i feel he was nothing but a lousy coward to avoid the consequences of what he did.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

He had one issue, he was a ****ing scumbag!

I have no problem with folks trying to find out the whys and the hows to crime; but sometimes,
it's a simple case of a bad and evil person committing a heinous act.

Valero had a history of being a nasty piece of work.

It reminds me of Chris Rock when he was doing a stand up and he
started to talk about gun killing and in particular, school shootings.
He was wondering why so many were trying to find out why, and how, and what tv
programme or video game or cartoon character could have caused these teens to
do such terrible things. He then said, "whatever happened to ****ing crazy?"

You have little understanding of mental illness/dysfunction. Gary Busey's suffered in a similar way and his personality completely changed. Luckily he managed to pull himself out of his drug use. I heard nothing of Valero's personal issues before the crash. These were exacerbated by his drug use and alcoholism. Get off your high horse. My respect for you has really dwindled lately, you have to be one of the most self righteous posters on this site.

walshb

Self Righteous?

So, was he mentally insane? Do you know, and if so, does that mean
I must sympathise with him?

You have your view and I have mine. I couldn't give a flying **** what his
excuses are, the facts are that he butchered a young woman, and for that, **** him; brain injury, melancholy, paranoia or whatever other label you wanna' pin on the scumbag!

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

He had one issue, he was a ****ing scumbag!

I have no problem with folks trying to find out the whys and the hows to crime; but sometimes,
it's a simple case of a bad and evil person committing a heinous act.

Valero had a history of being a nasty piece of work.

It reminds me of Chris Rock when he was doing a stand up and he
started to talk about gun killing and in particular, school shootings.
He was wondering why so many were trying to find out why, and how, and what tv
programme or video game or cartoon character could have caused these teens to
do such terrible things. He then said, "whatever happened to ****ing crazy?"

what you're saying more or less chimes with the thinking of an expert on psychopathology. there have been neurological scans done on notorious serial killers which concluded that people like these are just born with a greater propensity to be violent regardless of their upbringing. their brains' had frontal lobe defects, this is the area in the brain that deals with what might be called our conscience. the scans determined that these people lacked a conscience/the ability to display empathy compared to most people. also the lack of fear and anxiety these people displayed, in tests designed to elicit such responses, compared to ordinary people was striking.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

Self Righteous?

So, was he mentally insane? Do you know, and if so, does that mean
I must sympathise with him?

You have your view and I have mine. I couldn't give a flying **** what his
excuses are, the facts are that he butchered a young woman, and for that, **** him; brain injury, melancholy, paranoia or whatever other label you wanna' pin on the scumbag!

Yes self righteous. Giving Andy Lee and Matthew Macklin your seal of approval of their nationality. That is very kind of you, I'm sure they couldn't sleep at night until you gave them the all clear. :rolleyes: Who the **** do you think you are?

I don't expect you to sympathise, I expect you to maybe have a bit of understanding that he was mentally unstable and maybe try fathom the notion that peoples brains can dysfunction which can cause drastic changes in personality/behaviour, so calling them a scum bag is completely ignorant and self righteous. He was clearly insane. Refrain from passing judgement on something you nothing of.

rovert

Boooourns wrote: »

Sad story, that motorbike fall must have really messed him up.

My thoughts too, there is emerging research linking brain damage with an inability to deal with the breakdown of relationships.

bamboozler

you jus struggle to even contemplate havin sympathy for the man, supposedly used to be able to fool those around him to thinkin he was a good guy in the way he came across and got away with stuff before cos he was chavez' buddy

i was goin to comment further but after readin previous comments id have to say i understand where both sides are comin from id say its prob a bit of both

deisedelight

magma69 wrote: »

This is a tragedy for all parties involved. It's easy to get high and mighty and call EV a piece of **** scumbag but it is obviousl the guy was seriously mentally ill. He should have been put away from his family by the authorities after the beating incident. He should have been on suicide watch while in the can (the thought of him topping himself crossed my mind yesterday. Complete incompetence by the authorites.

I am certain the brain damage from the crash has had a serious affect on his personality. I wonder if he had issues before that crash. I'm not excusing what he did but rather explaining it. Two people are dead and there are children without a mother or father, it's sickening.

That comment by Berto is one of most classless things I have heard come out of a boxer's mouth (which is saying a lot). Imagine someone said something of the same nature about his family killed by the earthquake. Gob****e :mad:

RIP to both.:(

magma you have echoed my sentiments exactly.

i would like to say i disagree strongly with those who felt valero was ordinary. cans (which i disagreee with too) or not 18 consecutive 1st round KOs is ridiculous punching power. personally i thought he was the real deal and had huge potential . someone should have stepped in. guy was clearly very ill. where was bob arum in this whole mess ?
one thing i read that i found interesting was that chris benoit (wwe wrestler) who did something similar, medical experts felt it was nt the drink or drugs that he did but the repeated concussions he experienced to the brain . note valero suffered severe trauma to the brain after motocycle accident.
in no way am i trying to excuse his disgusting behaviour but i just found that interesting.

rovert

deisedelight wrote: »

one thing i read that i found interesting was that chris benoit (wwe wrestler) who did something similar, medical experts felt it was nt the drink or drugs that he did but the repeated concussions he experienced to the brain . note valero suffered severe trauma to the brain after motocycle accident.
in no way am i trying to excuse his disgusting behaviour but i just found that interesting.

I was dancing around Benoit with my previous post. One Pro Wrestling/MMA website made reference to boxing having its own Benoit tragedy:
http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/13068/

Little you said more of a possible explanation than any kind of excuse.

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

Yes self righteous. Giving Andy Lee and Matthew Macklin your seal of approval of their nationality. That is very kind of you, I'm sure they couldn't sleep at night until you gave them the all clear. :rolleyes: Who the **** do you think you are?

I don't expect you to sympathise, I expect you to maybe have a bit of understanding that he was mentally unstable and maybe try fathom the notion that peoples brains can dysfunction which can cause drastic changes in personality/behaviour, so calling them a scum bag is completely ignorant and self righteous. He was clearly insane. Refrain from passing judgement on something you nothing of.

Clearly insane? So, now you are a psychiatrist, and you had full access to diagnose Edwin, is that what you are saying?

Get off will you. You know as little about this man as the rest of us, so don't try to tell me how I should react to what he did. Self righteous? Maybe you should look a bit closer to home...

As for Lee and Mackilin? Lame is all I can say. I never approved either for their nationality. I stated a fact, that is all. Both born in England, whuppeee!

Get over it.

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

Clearly insane? So, now you are a psychiatrist, and you had full access to diagnose Edwin, is that what you are saying?

Get off will you. You know as little about this man as the rest of us, so don't try to tell me how I should react to what he did. Self righteous? Maybe you should look a bit closer to home...

As for Lee and Mackilin? Lame is all I can say. I never approved either for their nationality. I stated a fact, that is all. Both born in England, whuppeee!

Get over it.

Oh come on man, you batter your wife around, kill her, claim that the mob were out to get you, then kill yourself hours later... reeks of a little bit insane to me...

And in the same respect you claim that he didn't have "full access to diagnose Edwin", well either do you, so you can't really argue that, he can't prove that he's nuts in the same fashion you can't really prove that he wasn't...

keane2097

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Oh come on man, you batter your wife around, kill her, claim that the mob were out to get you, then kill yourself hours later... reeks of a little bit insane to me...

And in the same respect you claim that he didn't have "full access to diagnose Edwin", well either do you, so you can't really argue that, he can't prove that he's nuts in the same fashion you can't really prove that he wasn't...

I thought you were being sarcastic with your first paragraph, then I read your second and realised you were serious.

I don't know what is wrong with people on here, but "embarrassing" is the nicest word I can use to describe the clamour to exonorate this animal who battered and eventually murdered his wife and then took the coward's road of killing himself to escape the consequences.

For shame all of you.

walshb

Well, for arguments sake let us say that Edwin was absolute bonkers insane. Still, don't ****ing expect me to shed a single tear for the animal. Label him with any label you can think of. In no way does it condone, excuse, or justify what he did. It may well explain why he did it.

Now, if my attitude reeks of "self righteousness," so be it. I am happy with my stance concerning Edwin Valero.

nacho libre

keane2097 wrote: »

I thought you were being sarcastic with your first paragraph, then I read your second and realised you were serious.

I don't know what is wrong with people on here, but "embarrassing" is the nicest word I can use to describe the clamour to exonorate this animal who battered and eventually murdered his wife and then took the coward's road of killing himself to escape the consequences.

For shame all of you.

i don't think i have anything to be ashamed about.
i mentioned head trauma in the other thread, which other people have now repeated in this thread,
not seeking to exonerate Valero, but merely trying to figure out if there is a link between severe head trauma and tragic violence like this. if a link can be established we might in future be able to prevent such things happening. that is why i'd be interested to hear expert opinion on the likelihood of his motorbike accident being a factor especially given what we now know about the state of Benoit's brain prior to his death and the profound effect it had on his personality.

then again as i mentioned previously in this thread it has been more or less proven some people are born bad apples, which no amount of nuturing will negate. this may well have been the case with Valero. whichever scenario is true i'm not trying to excuse what he did. My sympathies are with the children who are left wondering what happened to mammy and daddy.

keane2097

nacho libre wrote: »

i don't think i have anything to be ashamed about.

You don't considering you say you're not trying to absolve him of blame for his actions.

Spazdarn

My view on it is pretty simple, head trauma, rough upbringing or drink/drug addiction... They all seem like excuses, can't a man just kill his wife solely because he's an evil, disgusting piece of ****? We're too quick to find a reasoning for it, to comprehend why he did it... It wasn't a crime of passion, he'd been battering her around for a good while, and reportedly had shot her before... he killed her because he's a nasty little c**t, he made up some fake story out of guilt to give the family, he came down off his drugs, and killed himself because of the shame/humiliation or a fear of a life in prison.

I don't really think there's very much else to it...

I know well that serious head trauma can lead to a change in personality, but so can all those roids Benoit was eating like smarties. He brought those horrible circumstances upon himself...

walshb

ToiletFusion wrote: »

My view on it is pretty simple, head trauma, rough upbringing or drink/drug addiction... They all seem like excuses, can't a man just kill his wife solely because he's an evil, disgusting piece of ****? We're too quick to find a reasoning for it, to comprehend why he did it... It wasn't a crime of passion, he'd been battering her around for a good while, and reportedly had shot her before... he killed her because he's a nasty little c**t, he made up some fake story out of guilt to give the family, he came down off his drugs, and killed himself because of the shame/humiliation or a fear of a life in prison.

I don't really think there's very much else to it...

I know well that serious head trauma can lead to a change in personality, but so can all those roids Benoit was eating like smarties. He brought those horrible circumstances upon himself...

I agree; but why did you query my post on this issue? Sometimes folks are just scumbags who do scummy things without much reason or causes etc. Valero is just a nasty piece of work.

Or were you querying whether or not that I thought he was mentally insane?

I don't know if he was, and don't care. My view is that the guys was a scumbag
and he did what he did because he was a scumbag.

makl

walshb wrote: »

I agree; but why did you query my post on this issue? Sometimes folks are just scumbags who do scummy things without much reason or causes etc. Valero is just a nasty piece of work.

Or were you querying whether or not that I thought he was mentally insane?

I don't know if he was, and don't care. My view is that the guys was a scumbag
and he did what he did because he was a scumbag.

maybe a scumbag, sane or insane, but for me, he'd real potential and persona too - in the ring. while antonio de marco mightn't be the best boxer around, he's no more a can than magee, lee or john duddy, or even ghevor - unfortunately i can only base this on the crudest of ranking systems i.e. boxrec, but i think its enough to at least argue the point. so sure, most of his wins were against cans, but all boxers have to take that route. the de marco fight however, really showed his potential.

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

I agree; but why did you query my post on this issue? Sometimes folks are just scumbags who do scummy things without much reason or causes etc. Valero is just a nasty piece of work.

Or were you querying whether or not that I thought he was mentally insane?

I don't know if he was, and don't care. My view is that the guys was a scumbag
and he did what he did because he was a scumbag.

I just didn't agree with your statement that deisedelight has no clue of his mental health when well no one else here really knows either...

The gist of what you think on the situation falls in line what I think... he was scum, and the blame rests on him...

Bodhisopha

It's hardly exonerating a man to speculate that a severe head injury might have altered his personality to the point that he was capable of commiting such heinous acts...

rovert

Bodhisopha wrote: »

It's hardly exonerating a man to speculate that a severe head injury might have altered his personality to the point that he was capable of commiting such heinous acts...

is an emerging stream of research which has lead to great reform in NFL, NHL and to a lesser extent Pro Wrestling.

Wild_Dogger

Secondsout got a 2-part documentrey on Valero

As I suspected , he was always an evil little bollix .
#Was a street gangster kid , who went around robbing people and battering them , cutting chains from peoples necks etc ....

Cant post a link , i gotta run - in work .
will look for a link later and post it

keane=cock

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Secondsout got a 2-part documentrey on Valero

As I suspected , he was always an evil little bollix .
#Was a street gangster kid , who went around robbing people and battering them , cutting chains from peoples necks etc ....

Cant post a link , i gotta run - in work .
will look for a link later and post it

both links available from here

http://www.secondsout.com/usa-boxing-news/usa-boxing-news/exclusive-edwin-valero-documentary-now-showing

keane2097

I would think that maybe people would come back now and maybe have another think about their "RIP" posts.

Animal.

walshb

keane2097 wrote: »

I would think that maybe people would come back now and maybe have another think about their "RIP" posts.

Animal.

No no no, that would mean you are self righteous!

Anyway, you took the words right out of my mouth

deisedelight

keane2097 wrote: »

I would think that maybe people would come back now and maybe have another think about their "RIP" posts.

Animal.

what the F**k you on about man . you think hes the first boxer to live in utter poverty and join a street gang.

go over your boxing history and you ll see their were far more violent criminals as kids than valero who went on to become champions.

deisedelight

walshb wrote: »

No no no, that would mean you are self righteous!

Anyway, you took the words right out of my mouth

fella as a mod your reducing this boxing forum to utter bitchiness with that comment.

if we re goin to talk about sensitive subjects lets at least be adult bout it . your entitled to have an opinion that valero was an evil scumbag but to reduce the forum to make little of a previous post made by another member is childish .

and walshb you of all people know a hell of alot our boxing champions were involved in street gangs before they took the gym. been part of a street gang means shi* in the context of this incredibly tragic valero saga. to think it substantiates your point is retarded.