Child Mauled by Dog

lisar201

OK so my sisters neighbour's son got mauled by a dog the other day,The dog tore half of the poor childs face off,Absolutely awful thing to happen to anybody, Now most of you will expect me to say it was done by one of the types of dogs on the restricted breeds list (such as a staff, Rottweiler, mastiff, pitbull, etc) the dog was actually a springer spaniel, the owners of the dog have had him for 5 yrs never had any problems before and have 4 children themselves. the dog is going to be put down. But here is my problem if it had of been any one of the dogs on the restricted breeds list it would have been front page news "another dangerous dog attacks inncocent child" but because it is not and the dog is just a normal springer family dog people are saying it must of been provoked by the child.This is the second time i've heard of a spaniel attacking a child.I am a rottie owner myself and it really makes my blood boil that my dog is sterotyped and has to be muzzled because of a handful of bad owners that have made the press,Yet we have heard stories about dogs not on the list and they are still free to roam around muzzle free.I have spent hundreds on buying my dog from a reputal breeder,hours socializing her to ensure she is not dangerous and i can honestly say she would lick someone to death before she'd even growl at anybody!! It really annoys me that all the work and money I have put into my dog and she still has to be muzzled. Any dog type of dog capable of attacking someone no matter what type of breed and that is why I feel that it should be the law to have all dogs muzzled not just a select few.It's like one rule for one and another for others.For instance I was walking my dog the other day and she was muzzled. All of a sudden along came to labs and they went for her, their owners had no control over them at all. because my dog was muzzled she had no way to defend herself or to protect me.Yet anybody walking by would have probly assumed my rottie attacked them!

EGAR

I do Bull Breed Rescue for well over a decade and have been saying the same thing over and over: deed not breed. However, I do not agree with having all dogs muzzled.

I got mauled by a Yellow Lab a few years back and was in hospital. Journalists rang me in the hope of getting an interview with the Pit Bull Lady and were very disappointed to hear that the dog wasn't a Bull Breed.

Needless to say, it never made the papers. Had it been a Bull Breed then the story would have been different .

fatmammycat

I nearly lost an ear to the family collie when I was a toddler. he absolutely savaged me. I've been attacked by JRTs more times than I can count on one hand while out running, seconded only by westies. And two of the sweetest-and most tolerant- dogs I know are staffies. Unique experience, I don't think so.
I won't even get another doberman as I feel I won't be able to socialise it properly ( short leash and a muzzle and never running free? people avoiding me and him because of the hardware) and I remember from my own guy how much interaction was needed to keep him dog and people safe. It's an absolute and utter joke how that list was drawn up with NO regard for individual owners and dogs, a poorly thought out blanket exercise in stupidity.:mad:

ha-ya-said-what

Gun dogs are kinda known for attacking kids, even if they were reared with kids. I got my face mauled the same as that poor boy as a toddler & it was a Pointer that did it to me & he had been reared in a house with 3 kids, it was only when he went to attack my brother that the dog was put down, muzzled or not they still sneak from behind, pounce on the kids & claw them, and can do equal amount of harm then as they would do with their mouth.

But again I put that blame upon the owners for not socialising & training the dog properly.

Shazanne

I think that the responsibility should lie entirely with the owners. We all know our dogs and we are not going to intentionally put a child or anyone else in danger. If you know your dog you know what it is capable of and, if your dog is a danger, then you take the necessary precautions. I have a small terrier cross rescue dog - she's adorable and you'd think butter would not melt in her mouth. But put her in the vicinity of another dog, especially a female, and she would most likely eat it! Therefore, she is never out without a lead. Same thing applies with a muzzle (which I hate). If you know your dog needs to be have one then you use it.
I know I'll be slated for saying this by people who will say there has to be a law to protect the public from irresponsible dog owners and I accept this is the case. But the majority of dog owners are responsible and it seems unfair to muzzle perfectly well behaved and socialised dogs.

ha-ya-said-what

EGAR wrote: »

I got mauled by a Yellow Lab a few years back and was in hospital. Journalists rang me in the hope of getting an interview with the Pit Bull Lady and were very disappointed to hear that the dog wasn't a Bull Breed.

I used to have to run from two Yellow labs years ago! Woman over the road from me owned them .... she was a ditz, they'd stray & if that wasn't bad enough she used to walk the dogs down to the bus stop in the morning with her kids, dogs on the leads with her busy trying to bite the rest of us & she just didn't care "ohh don't be silly they never harmed my kids so they won't harm you"

Other neighbour had a beagle who's attack was wait for someone to cycle past, dart out, bite their legs & try take them down off the bike! .. Again owner didn't have a secure garden or care that the dog was straying

EGAR

Fatmammycat has made a very good point, one I have been banging on about for years to anyone who would listen. How on earth is one supposed to properly socialise a restricted breed with a muzzle and a short leash? It's a catch22 and one designed to raise anti-social or insecure dogs.

Socialisation for ANY dog/breed is vital.

Also, as the mother of a 5 yro I echo what another poster said: it's the parents responsibility to make sure the child is safe, however, we all know that 24/7 guarding of a child is not possible and *freak* (for the lack of a better word) accidents do happen.

lisar201

Shazanne wrote: »

I think that the responsibility should lie entirely with the owners. We all know our dogs and we are not going to intentionally put a child or anyone else in danger. If you know your dog you know what it is capable of and, if your dog is a danger, then you take the necessary precautions. I have a small terrier cross rescue dog - she's adorable and you'd think butter would not melt in her mouth. But put her in the vicinity of another dog, especially a female, and she would most likely eat it! Therefore, she is never out without a lead. Same thing applies with a muzzle (which I hate). If you know your dog needs to be have one then you use it.
I know I'll be slated for saying this by people who will say there has to be a law to protect the public from irresponsible dog owners and I accept this is the case. But the majority of dog owners are responsible and it seems unfair to muzzle perfectly well behaved and socialised dogs.

thats exactly my point i fell that all dogs should have to be muzzled(i hate muzzling mine) instead of just the restricted breeds as other dogs are just as likely to attack

wolfpawnat

I had to give my Yorkie and Cocker Spaniel to my mother when I found out I was pregnant. My yorkie is an absolute princess and she is very jealous, add that to lightning swift and snappy little teeth = bad injury to my son. As for the Cocker, he doesnt seem harmful but I cannot risk it! He is bulky and may see my son (who crawls) as prey!

Also, my father had a dog to train for the IGDB (half lab/half golden retriever) and seriously he would visciously snap at everone but my dad. he was very bad when I was pregnant. I had to forcible shove him away from me when I was 8 months pregnant!!!!! he lunged at me!

Never the dog breed only the owner is my theory. I treated my dog like a princess and as such made her incapible of being around children, she is well cared for but I miss her every day

EGAR

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

I used to have to run from two Yellow labs years ago! Woman over the road from me owned them .... she was a ditz, they'd stray & if that wasn't bad enough she used to walk the dogs down to the bus stop in the morning with her kids, dogs on the leads with her busy trying to bite the rest of us & she just didn't care "ohh don't be silly they never harmed my kids so they won't harm you"

Other neighbour had a beagle who's attack was wait for someone to cycle past, dart out, bite their legs & try take them down off the bike! .. Again owner didn't have a secure garden or care that the dog was straying

The Lab was an owner surrender, they made out they found him as a stray. I found out later that he was indeed their dog and had attacked several people. Instead of doing the decent thing they surrendered him to me and lied about him. It was a very expensive lie as they had to pay for my treatment and the PTS of the dog. They were lucky I didn't pursue it any further than that.

ha-ya-said-what

:mad: I hope they feckin learned their lesson!!!!

EGAR

lisar201 wrote: »

thats exactly my point i fell that all dogs should have to be muzzled(i hate muzzling mine) instead of just the restricted breeds as other dogs are just as likely to attack

Sorry but that's like saying: lock up all men as they are potential rapists.

EGAR

OP, as most attacks happen in the dogs own home that would mean you want them muzzled 24/7?

ha-ya-said-what

Some dogs won't take well to muzzling, years ago a Pom developed the habit of constantly licking his leg to the point where it was raw, he was muzzled for that to allow the leg time to heal & hair to re-grow as anything applied to the leg he just licked off anyway... to him he'd been muzzled for no reason so persisted to get aggitated & aggressive in clawing the muzzle & when the muzzle was removed became snappy & snarly towards humans, it seems he now saw people as a threat that they were going to muzzle him.

EGAR

This will make interesting reading for anyone concerned about dog bite statistics:

http://www.ucd.ie/news/0710_october/081007_dog_bite.html

ha-ya-said-what

The only time I have ever known anyone to get biten by a dog outside of the dogs home was when the dog was in public, tied to a something while the owner was in the shop paying for something less than 5 ft away & keeping an eye on the dog, until someone came along & thought "ohhh lovely doggie" and went to pet him!

lisar201

EGAR wrote: »

Sorry but that's like saying: lock up all men as they are potential rapists.

that is taking it to the extreme! I just feel that all dogs are just as likely to attack not just the restricted breeds and that it is not fair on the restricted breed to have to be muzzled when non-restricted are attacking people as well if not more! the law should apply to all dogs or none, It's just like beening racist only is involes dogs instead of people, We could not go around saying " hey people with big muscles must be put in a straight jacket to stop them from potenially going around punching people"

EGAR

I understand 100% where you are coming from, OP, however, I feel that muzzling all dogs is not a solution for several reasons, some of which I already mentioned. i.e. socialisation, attacks at home etc.

My example may be a bit extreme but the train of thought is the same.

mymo

Ha-ya-said-what That is one thing really annoys me, I have two dogs who are very well socialized and very friendly, especially to kids. But the amount of times people have come up to me and pounced on the dogs going "oh what a cute doggie" while the dog tries to back away(I have taught them to wait until told to "say hello" which usually means a sniff and a wag, then they get rubbed) is amazing, and this often happens with kids too, even parents telling the kids to pet the dogs:rolleyes:.
I even had a young boy try to pick up one dog when she was a pup, while his mother watched.
None of these people know the dogs, or have any idea of the reaction they'll get, just because a dog looks cute doesn't mean its safe. I have only ever been bitten by a lab and a jack russell, and I grew up with friends with staffies, rotties and dobies.
I have known dogs all my life but still won't pet a dog I don't know and taught my daughter the same. I also wouldn't leave my dogs with other kids, even daughters friends(12yrs old or so). I do believe any dog could bite given the right circumstances, be it sick, hurt, afraid or something else.
I do think there should be the option to get your restricted breed dog assessed and registered, and then allowed to go unmuzzled.

lisar201

EGAR wrote: »

I understand 100% where you are coming from, OP, however, I feel that muzzling all dogs is not a solution for several reasons, some of which I already mentioned. i.e. socialisation, attacks at home etc.

My example may be a bit extreme but the train of thought is the same.

I totally disagree with muzzling dogs I hate muzzling mine but unfortunitly it is the law because my dog is a rottweiler, My point is i think it is unfair to only have to muzzle dogs on the list it should either be the law to have to muzzle all dogs or none at all.I would defo prefer not at all because muzzling a dog is so cruel and i feel terrible doing it to my dog but what other choice do i have??If i wanted to challenge the laws on muzzling dogs who should i contact or write to?I really do think there should be the option of getting the restricted breeds assessed

ha-ya-said-what

mymo wrote: »

Ha-ya-said-what That is one thing really annoys me, I have two dogs who are very well socialized and very friendly, especially to kids. But the amount of times people have come up to me and pounced on the dogs going "oh what a cute doggie" while the dog tries to back away(I have taught them to wait until told to "say hello" which usually means a sniff and a wag, then they get rubbed) is amazing, and this often happens with kids too, even parents telling the kids to pet the dogs:rolleyes:.
I even had a young boy try to pick up one dog when she was a pup, while his mother watched.
None of these people know the dogs, or have any idea of the reaction they'll get, just because a dog looks cute doesn't mean its safe. I have only ever been bitten by a lab and a jack russell, and I grew up with friends with staffies, rotties and dobies.
I have known dogs all my life but still won't pet a dog I don't know and taught my daughter the same. I also wouldn't leave my dogs with other kids, even daughters friends(12yrs old or so). I do believe any dog could bite given the right circumstances, be it sick, hurt, afraid or something else.
I do think there should be the option to get your restricted breed dog assessed and registered, and then allowed to go unmuzzled.

That's it people don't stop to think it's "ohhh the doggie" & off with them, the kids still run up to one of mine when we're out & leap to a stop with the hands out & on the dog before they've even finished asking "can I pet her"

EGAR

Lobbying to scrap the Restricted Breeds list has led to ... nothing. No politician would want to touch it as the broader public still perceives these breeds as more dangerous than others.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pit-bulls-bite-less-than-family-dogs-121405.html

That was good start in 2007 but it led to... nothing.

The statistics are there backed up by independant research but no one will listen.

I have banged my head against a wall for over decade now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSAxS67pKfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fddUquDXIjo

http://www.egar.org/bsl.htm

The list is endless.

lisar201

EGAR wrote: »

Lobbying to scrap the Restricted Breeds list has led to ... nothing. No politician would want to touch it as the broader public still perceives these breeds as more dangerous than others.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pit-bulls-bite-less-than-family-dogs-121405.html

That was good start in 2007 but it led to... nothing.

The statistics are there backed up by independant research but no one will listen.

I have banged my head against a wall for over decade now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSAxS67pKfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fddUquDXIjo

http://www.egar.org/bsl.htm

The list is endless.

But there must be something we can do because I am coming across more and more people agreeing with me and if there was enough people something would have to be done

EGAR

The problem IMHO is the perception of the dogs by the broader public, the politicians worrying that it will cost them votes if they support us, and since lobbying is a lengthy process, people will lose interest after a while and then you stand there with a handful of people. And of course education of the public about theses breeds.

The biggest problem and the downfall of alot of those breeds are the scumbags they often attract as owners.

I have not given up by a long shot but there is only so much a single person can do. I simply haven't got the time to go lobbying, write letters, organise a campaign AND look after the rescue. The day only has 24 hours .

crotalus667

EGAR wrote: »

The problem IMHO is the perception of the dogs by the broader public, the politicians worrying that it will cost them votes if they support us, and since lobbying is a lengthy process, people will lose interest after a while and then you stand there with a handful of people. And of course education of the public about theses breeds.

What is needed is the backing of a newspaper that is willing to try and sensaionalize the whole thing like they did with the head shops + plus you need some thing to replace the dd act with ( i am in favour of a mandatory test for owners or mandatory scoialiaztion classes for any dog that is to be brought into a public place)

EGAR wrote: »

The biggest problem and the downfall of alot of those breeds are the scumbags they often attract as owners. .

In the uk they have proven the banned dog list to be fundemently flawed , since they have banned the dogs they have increased in number + their popularaty as an ego/scumbag dog has risen

EGAR

Crotalus, we do not have a DDA (Dangerous Dogs Act) in Ireland, it's only in the UK, it's called Restricted Breeds Act in Ireland. And why replace it with something? It's deed not breed and with no legislation in place to deal with rogue owners (in all the cases of dogs biting it was the dogs who paid the price, i.e. were pts'd, the owners went scot-free to get another dog, feck it up and the whole cycle starts again) we are fighting a losing battle.

Mandatory capability tests will be very hard to enforce as the Restricted Breeds Act isnt enforced in many parts of the country. In a country that doesn't even have a modern Animal Welfare Act it will be very hard to put a system in place that suits all dog owners. I can't see Paddy next door with his 2 collies and a farm full of cows doing a suitability test, can you?


Yes, banning/restricting only heightens the attraction.


I'm off now to another round of kennel cleaning, I am very interested to see opinions on this matter, so I am looking forward to this thread in the evening.

crotalus667

EGAR wrote: »

Crotalus, we do not have a DDA (Dangerous Dogs Act) in Ireland, it's only in the UK, it's called Restricted Breeds Act in Ireland..

I know putting dd was just a reflex

EGAR wrote: »

And why replace it with something?..

Stupid owners need to be delt with

EGAR wrote: »

we are fighting a losing battle.

One man and his rifel can hold up an army , it's not over untill the last man falls

EGAR wrote: »

Mandatory capability tests will be very hard to enforce as the Restricted Breeds Act isnt enforced in many parts of the country. .

A garda unit in each county needs to be put in charge of enforcement (with a lot more than the threat of 6 months to back them up)

EGAR wrote: »

In a country that doesn't even have a modern Animal Welfare Act it will be very hard to put a system in place that suits all dog owners. I can't see Paddy next door with his 2 collies and a farm full of cows doing a suitability test, can you?.

Well we need to get a modern Animal Welfare Act , as for paddy's collies they would be working dogs and excempt

EGAR wrote: »

Yes, banning/restricting only heightens the attraction.

and now we have the data to back up what every one has been saying all along

EGAR wrote: »

I'm off now to another round of kennel cleaning,g.

Have fun

morganafay

That's so sad and horrible. Springers are usually lovely dogs but I heard that some of them carry the "cocker spaniel rage" gene, since they were originally the same dog. It's much more rare in Springers. Or maybe the owners didn't socialise it properly. Either way a young child shouldn't be let alone with a dog. I don't know what age this child was, but I don't think a young child should ever be unsupervised with any dog . . .

The only dog I've ever been bitten by was a Staffie, and in fairness it was attacking my dogs and I just got in the way, so it was more dog aggressive than people aggressive. And I blame the owners, since it wasn't fenced into its garden, and its ears were cropped so I can only assume that they don't care if it's vicious. And the owner heard the fight/attack and came out and called the dog into the yard (after the fight was over) and didn't even say sorry to me or anything.

But I've had lots of other dogs try when I've been grooming them, mostly male Westies, and unneutered. But they were usually pretty matted and getting the mats out hurts them. And also nervous dogs like unsocialised collies, GSD's, and crosses, that live on farms and are lovely to people they know but scared of strangers. So if those dogs were neutered/socialised, then there probably wouldn't have been a problem.

Son Of A Vidic

As the OP said, most of the media bias is totally centered on certain breeds, which of course is ridiculous. I personally have found spaniels to be ill-tempered and not predictable around kids. No matter what, it boils down to the owner at the end of the day. A 'pack' can only have one Alpha Male and female and a properly trained dog that knows its position within the home, will be a well balanced, safe and dependable dog.

fatmammycat

The last time we had elections here I asked the 'candidate' who called around what they might do about the RB act and I've never seen a man run off a doorway as fast. Newspapers are not even SLIGHTLY interested in being fair and balanced about dogs. The largest settlement in this country for a dog bite was made against a collie in wicklow, are THEY classed as 'devil' dogs? Of course not.
I wonder what ever happened to that dog who was seized in N Ireland, Bruce I think his name was, poor animal.

lrushe

I can totally relate to the 'banging your head of a brick wall' feeling. I feel like a parrot repeating the same thing over and over and getting now where. I am so sorry to hear about the poor child getting mauled, even if it does prove that any breed can be a culprit it pains me to hear of a child paying the price of an adults negligence, negligence caused because people have been given this 'good' dog 'bad' dog list ie. if your dog is on the restricted list its a 'bad' dog but if its not its a 'good' dog and therefore ok to leave with children.
I am in the lucky position in that I've never been bitten despite having dogs for 30 years. As a child my dad bred and trained GSDs and dobermen for security and I was always taught to have respect for dogs, not to pull out of them, not to touch their food etc., skills alot of children aren't taught.
I've had restricted breeds of my own for the past 16 years who I train and socialise with avengance, my dogs will literally shadow me whenever I go out for the first year and then as much as possible after that. The interesting thing I've noticed in the last week since I've started putting a dogmatic collar on my Rottie is not no one stops to complìment her anymore as they precieve it to be a muzzle and therefore that she is vicious which make me sad because she doens't understand why people don't stop to rub her anymore, how can this beneift socialising a dog???