A warning about registered Gas Installers

No problem yoshytoshy, the regs are very important and they need to be clear and precise, which i feel we have been let down on, i would love to see the good working practices mentioned put in to IS813 so there can be no misunderstanding, a higher standard of regs protect decent installers and crucify the inept ones, but it would also need strong enforcement.

I have seen a massive improvement in domestic installation since i started inspecting them, flushing is more common place and most installers i deal with who are making basic mistakes are now motivated to learn, to stay on the right side of RGII, Gary.

yoshytoshy

Thanks gary ,i have picked up a lot of small leaks on jobs were the people had no idea. It's beyond me how anyone would think it's ok not to check the line.

Your even asked to fill out what type of pipework the gas line is done in.

Just to show what i mean about the regs not being precise, Cert3 ask the installer: to declare if the installation work and or the appliance is gastight, when it should read: installation and appliance is gastight, so they have no requirement to test the pipework if your servicing a appliance.

Complacency kills, and i find some installers aren't paranoid enough when working on gas or unvented cylinders but that's another story:)

yoshytoshy

gary71 wrote: »

Just to show what i mean about the regs not being precise, Cert3 ask the installer: to declare if the installation work and or the appliance is gastight, when it should read: installation and appliance is gastight, so they have no requirement to test the pipework if your servicing a appliance.

Certs are filled out for repairs to leaking pipework etc. or leaking gas appliances.
So the and or would stand for repairs up to the appliance or the appliance itself.

Now we are friends I'm not going to pick a fight, BUT;) looking at cert 3 for the purpose of a service/repair from my take on it, they first state that: all details must be provided by RGII installers working in accordance with IS813(which looks for the appliance test only) then it has the the declaration mentioned earlier "appliance or pipework" and then it shows the minimum requirement for a service by printing annex C appliance only and annex E for a safety unlock after rectification which would be the full test of appliances and pipework, just my reading of cert 3 and what they are telling us to do but it wouldn't be the first time i misinterpreted regs and now I'm getting all nerdy. Gary.

yoshytoshy

I haven't got a cert to hand ,I must look at one tomorrow. This means anyone can walk into a house and mess around with the boiler for twenthy minutes ,without proper knowledge about gas installations.

People are been had.

http://www.rgii.ie/_fileupload/Consumer%20Documents/Info/13348%20RGII%20Ext%20Cert3_Layout%201Version%201%2023-09-09.pdf

Good installers will always be good and the regs are less of a issue and back up the work their doing already, i like regs that leave no room for interpretation and are simple to follow, the UK regs are very in depth and leave no room for misunderstanding, a much better system and there is no middle ground so they are easy to enforce, i prefer working under UK gas regs as i just have to do what the book says and i am protected if god forbid a accident occurs, Irish regs have a long way to go before i feel that protected working here.

I have had a few heated arguments with the Board Gais mafia who would turn up to site shut the boilers down because of their interpretations of the regs and as the manufactures Representative i was the one to had to explain the error of their ways, not easy when they were mob handed. With clear regs then there can be no arguments and clear regs/instructions is what RGII should be giving us, Gary.

yoshytoshy

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I haven't got a cert to hand ,I must look at one tomorrow. This means anyone can walk into a house and mess around with the boiler for twenthy minutes ,without proper knowledge about gas installations.

People are been had.

You should post a warning:D

FUNKY LOVER

look if you read all my posts in this thread you will see my argument was it is not required in IS813 to carry out a soundeness test on the pipework.i work on industrial commercial and domestic installations,so im not some plumber who done the rgi course and am out servicing without knowing the ins and outs.

all i quoted is in IS813.and yes it is ridiculous but this shows how things are going to get worst before they get better,IMO.

yoshytoshy

I only ever do installing or repairs ,never servicing. Full line tests are done on all work that we do though.
I commission work and fill out log books ,everything has to be done by the book for the seai.

Apologies to funky lover for contradicting him ,it's a shock to see this stuff after working on gas for so long.

yoshytoshy

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

all i quoted is in IS813.and yes it is ridiculous but this shows how things are going to get worst before they get better,IMO.

Yeah ,sorry about that.

I did spot in your earlier post that you test the pipework, so none of my comments about fruitloops or dodgy installers would be aimed at you:), i reckon fellehs how don't read the regs are not going to read a forum.

FUNKY LOVER

is that a serious apology,if so its cool you dont to need mate!!

but seriously i personally think something bad is going to happen that will show just how stupid this whole reci rgi stuff is.i mean lads who have never worked on gas before can just pay for a course and sudddenly they can work on boilers etc.

that just cant be right,as anyone who works in the business knows it takes years to know about it and even at that you will never know it all.

yoshytoshy

I've done loads of gas courses and fas training ,spent thousands between one thing and another.

Now it sounds like tom,dick and harry can do a two week course ,buy an analyzer and stick his name on a jeep.

It's the people who pay for the services is who I feel for.

yoshytoshy

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

is that a serious apology,if so its cool you dont to need mate!!

but seriously i personally think something bad is going to happen that will show just how stupid this whole rrci rgi stuff is.i mean lads who have never worked on gas before can just pay for a course and sudddenly they can work on boilers etc.

that just cant be right,as anyone who works in the business knows it takes years to know about it and even at that you will never know it all.

The boss despises rgi ,wants nothing to do with the whole thing. He spotted what your saying a few months ago ,but I didn't believe him.
I'm hoping they have something up their slieve and they just need money to kickstart the whole thing.

But even the idea that a boiler service doesn't include a line check ,is just shocking.

yoshytoshy

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I've done loads of gas courses and fas training ,spent thousands between one thing and another.

Now it sounds like tom,dick and harry can do a two week course ,buy an analyzer and stick his name on a jeep.

It's the people who pay for the services is who I feel for.

Calm down:eek:, I'm supposed to do the bitching and moaning , don't take that away from me:(.

FUNKY LOVER

believe me its a joke,it was a great idea in theory-start everything from fresh,and implement new guidelines laws etc,but it was brought in so ridiculous.

i have lads ringing me sometimes saying,im standing in front of a bolier and this and that is happening,now i just say im not insured to help over the phone.

the **** is gonna hit the fan soon.

FUNKY LOVER

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

the **** is gonna hit the fan soon.

It don't get any worse than a BG fitted boiler, serviced by them, then getting capped off by a RGII friend of the house holders, who done the right thing when he heard them complaining about headaches and dizziness, he found the boiler sooted and carbon monoxide getting into the house, fair play to him, as for BG they have a habit of making things disappear which i find is part of the problem of enforcement. Gary

FUNKY LOVER

gary71 wrote: »

It don't get any worse than a BG fitted boiler, serviced by them, then getting capped off by a RGII friend of the house holders, who done the right thing when he heard them complaining about headaches and dizziness, he found the boiler sooted and carbon monoxide getting into the house, fair play to him, as for BG they have a habit of making things disappear which i find is part of the problem of enforcement. Gary

yep fair play,obviously not all rgis are cowboys id like tO think its the minority.

as i said it was a great idea,getting away from bord gais and starting something fresh with hew guidelines etc,but its been implemented wrong,only my opinion though what do i know at the end of the day!!

FUNKY LOVER

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

.
as i said it was a great idea,getting away from board gais and starting something fresh with hew guidelines etc,but its been implemented wrong,only my opinion though what do i know at the end of the day!!

Unfortunately for us it's the same person who was in charge at BG who came across to RGII to run RGII who i blame, it the same thing as before but with a different name, how many inspectors are from outside of Board Gais?.

Micky Dolenz

I emailed RGII some questions get a conculsive answer on the soundness test.

Fair play, they responded pretty quickly.


Micky
I am just leaving the office for weeks holidays so hence the rushed answer

1) Is a soundness test required on pipe work when an appliance service is being carried out NO, or does the appliance only need to be checked for soundness as per annex C of IS 813 YES

2) Is the RGI required to do a visual inspection of the other gas appliance's in the property? Only if requested or providing this service i.e Annex E inspection as per IS813 (other than the one being serviced). When a fault is found a notice of hazard is issued YES.



Contact me anytime for clarification
Regards
William Wilson
Inspections Manager
Register of Gas Installers of Ireland

yoshytoshy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I emailed RGII some questions get a conculsive answer on the soundness test.

Fair play, they responded pretty quickly.


Micky
I am just leaving the office for weeks holidays so hence the rushed answer

1) Is a soundness test required on pipe work when an appliance service is being carried out NO, or does the appliance only need to be checked for soundness as per annex C of IS 813 YES

2) Is the RGI required to do a visual inspection of the other gas appliance's in the property? Only if requested or providing this service i.e Annex E inspection as per IS813 (other than the one being serviced). When a fault is found a notice of hazard is issued YES.



Contact me anytime for clarification
Regards
William Wilson
Inspections Manager
Register of Gas Installers of Ireland

The regulations are being watered down so ,line checks were always done when servicing.

People should ask for there line to be checked when getting a service ,for safety purposes.

JohnnieK

This post is getting some amount of views lads, see what you have started Gary:D. I would never do a service with out doing a line test it's a given in my book. When I done my GID we were told to soundness test the line. Why are the people who train us telling us to do this and ~RGII are saying a different thing. I will stick to what I was thought after all the man was an experienced Gas Fitter for 35 years.

If you think board gais are bad now wait till they sign the service section over to Sierra who I belive will be doing the servicing from now on soon enough. They will be offering €40 an appliance and only 4 a day to there "fitters". I can just imagin. The good ones will do a good job and be there the day and the a**e wholes will piss through them so they can go off and do there own work after. I'm open to correction on this because I heard it from a third party.

GopErthike

JohnnieK wrote: »

This post is getting some amount of views lads, see what you have started Gary:D. I would never do a service with out doing a line test it's a given in my book. When I done my GID we were told to soundness test the line. Why are the people who train us telling us to do this and ~RGII are saying a different thing. I will stick to what I was thought after all the man was an experienced Gas Fitter for 35 years.

If you think board gais are bad now wait till they sign the service section over to Sierra who I belive will be doing the servicing from now on soon enough. They will be offering €40 an appliance and only 4 a day to there "fitters". I can just imagin. The good ones will do a good job and be there the day and the a**e wholes will piss through them so they can go off and do there own work after. I'm open to correction on this because I heard it from a third party.

^^^^^^^ agreed...

But I have to disagree with testing the line when doing a boiler service, as far as I know it was never part of the regulations. Ok thats not to say thats an ideal situation, but personally I think it's right. Besides testing the line in every building is opening up a whole new can of worms, which has nothing to do with a boiler service. Whereas a safety check is a different story.






I know, I know, a month later, razor sharp. sorry.

yoshytoshy

GopErthike wrote: »

But I have to disagree with testing the line when doing a boiler service, as far as I know it was never part of the regulations. Ok thats not to say thats an ideal situation, but personally I think it's right. Besides testing the line in every building is opening up a whole new can of worms, which has nothing to do with a boiler service. Whereas a safety check is a different story.

I know, I know, a month later, razor sharp. sorry.

I really don't see the problem with checking the line ,can't see any issues with finding leaks either.
If theres a leak you locate it and fix it ,obviously discuss it with the customer about price etc.
If you can't fix it ,hand the customer a hazard notice to have the line repaired.

GopErthike

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I really don't see the problem with checking the line ,can't see any issues with finding leaks either.
If theres a leak you locate it and fix it ,obviously discuss it with the customer about price etc.
If you can't fix it ,hand the customer a hazard notice to have the line repaired.

I see plenty of problems, typical conversation being: 'well there wasn't a problem beforehand', thats right, but I just did a test that you didn't ask me to do nor was I obliged to do and I've found a small leak which has to be fixed, costing you. thanks, Your welcome.

I don't mean to be smartar*ed but dealing with the public can be difficult. I like your idealism of having no drops but it won't work that way.

Don't get me wrong there shouldn't be any leaks. But you've just been asked to service the boiler.

yoshytoshy

GopErthike wrote: »

I see plenty of problems, typical conversation being: 'well there wasn't a problem beforehand', thats right, but I just did a test that you didn't ask me to do nor was I obliged to do and I've found a small leak which has to be fixed, costing you. thanks, Your welcome.

I don't mean to be smartar*ed but dealing with the public can be difficult. I like your idealism of having no drops but it won't work that way.

Don't get me wrong there shouldn't be any leaks. But you've just been asked to service the boiler.

Haven't had any problems so far doing things this way ,people are more than happy to get things done right.

Nobody gets their old cooker serviced and yet they are the first thing to start leaking.

There is virtually no leaks on lines anyway ,when there is it's miniscule.

GopErthike

Different experiences I suppose.

JohnnieK

GopErthike wrote: »

^^^^^^^ agreed...

But I have to disagree with testing the line when doing a boiler service, as far as I know it was never part of the regulations. Ok thats not to say thats an ideal situation, but personally I think it's right. Besides testing the line in every building is opening up a whole new can of worms, which has nothing to do with a boiler service. Whereas a safety check is a different story.






I know, I know, a month later, razor sharp. sorry.

I have acctually heard since that they have to do 7 a day. God help there customers.