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Big Ben going to get banned?

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24

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    #32
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    The Sparrow wrote: »
    No but at the same time we should not dismiss her as "some girl" making rape allegations. Or "some bitch accusing Ben of assaulting her" as the police officer did without knowing any facts. It is difficult enough for girls to come forward because when they have been raped and dismissing them as "some girl" perpetuates that imo. .
    So, when nothing has been proven, and the allegations were deemed untrue/unsubtatiated by a court of law, we should have pity for the alleged victim, and ban the formerly accused. Seems like no due process to me.
    The Sparrow wrote: »
    BTW I assume that when you said some girl you probably did not mean to dismiss her but it was just a poor choice of words so I am not attacking you per se but the attitude that seems to prevail where rape allegations are dismissed.

    On another note, that piece you quoted from Peter King is an interesting read - seems to make out there will be suspensions.
    Possibly a wrong choice of words, but I would hold false claims of rape in a very low regard, due to the stigma automatically attached to the accused (as is plainly happening in this case) regardless of whether the crime actually occurred or not
    Leslie91 wrote: »
    Whatever happened, Ben is an idiot for getting into this situation again. A suspension is warranted, maybe he might learn from that. None of us were there ofcourse but No means No.
    +1 to the highlighted part, a definite contrast to the unhighlighted section to which I am most definitly not agreed to.


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    #33
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    As for Ben being innocent until proven gulity and he shouldnt be punished...Roger Goodell was on the Dan Patrick show yesterday and he said Ben was gulity of violating the NFL's personal conduct policy and will be punished, we'll know the details of how and why in the coming days when the punishment is handed out.

    So Ben maybe not guilty in a court of law but according to the NFL his is guilty of breaking the NFL's personal conduct policy and will be punished.


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    #34
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Hazys wrote: »
    As for Ben being innocent until proven gulity and he shouldnt be punished...Roger Goodell was on the Dan Patrick show yesterday and he said Ben was gulity of violating the NFL's personal conduct policy and will be punished, we'll know the details of how and why in the coming days when the punishment is handed out.

    So Ben maybe not guilty in a court of law but according to the NFL his is guilty of breaking the NFL's personal conduct policy and will be punished.
    Has he specified why? IE what ben has done thats against the policy?

    If the only thing he's done is be falsly accused of rape (as in he was not found guilty) then its harsh IMO


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    #35
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    Has he specified why? IE what ben has done thats against the policy?

    If the only thing he's done is be falsly accused of rape (as in he was not found guilty) then its harsh IMO

    Like i said not yet, we'll find out in the next couple of days when the suspension is handed out.


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    #36
    jdivision
    Registered Users Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Max Power1 wrote: »

    I think the less said of jdivision's comments above, the better. If it werent for reading his other posts I would consider that one above as trolling in the highest order

    I'm entitled to express an opinion on the case. See I've read a lot of the facts about it, I've read why the DA couldn't pursue it and I know why it's almost impossible to get a sexual assault conviction in Georgia when alcohol comes into it.
    I know the cop who first got involved in the investigation resigned because he made derogatory remarks towards the girl who made the allegations - ie it was skewed from the very beginning - and I know the nightclub (accidentally:rolleyes:) deleted the video coverage of the club after it was requested by cops.
    But apparently the superstar QB's got nothing to answer for and I can't express my opinion on him anymore because some people who barely posted here decided that we needed more mods and more rules even though nothing that bad had ever really been posted in here. So apparently I can't say what I think anymore here, because I got a mod warning. Thanks for that. as for those who think it's okay to get a girl drunk before she's legally allowed to drink and then follow her - without being invited to do so - into a jacks and mess around with her, well I'm sorry but I'd be banned under the new regime for telling you what i think of you.

    *** edit*** actually, i'll say it, anybody who thinks that it's okay to do that to somebody is a scumbag


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    #37
    Frisbee
    Registered Users Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Frisbee


    jdivision wrote: »
    But apparently the superstar QB's got nothing to answer for and I can't express my opinion on him anymore because some people who barely posted here decided that we needed more mods and more rules even though nothing that bad had ever really been posted in here. So apparently I can't say what I think anymore here, because I got a mod warning. Thanks for that. as for those who think it's okay to get a girl drunk before she's legally allowed to drink and then follow her - without being invited to do so - into a jacks and mess around with her, well I'm sorry but I'd be banned under the new regime for telling you what i think of you.

    *** edit*** actually, i'll say it, anybody who thinks that it's okay to do that to somebody is a scumbag

    Mate, I gave you a yellow on thread when I could have given you a red.

    I then explained to you through PM that if that it's your opinion then more power to you. I merely asked you not to call him a scumbag on thread gain.

    I felt I did so politely and concisely.

    Your getting a warning now. If you continue to act like this on the thread you'll be taking a few days off the forum.


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    #38
    jdivision
    Registered Users Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Frisbee, I don't have a problem with the way you dealt with it but it's something that I think needed to be said. i know you've a job to do but I think a lot of the people posting here in support of him are just reading a few pieces here and there and assuming certain things.


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    #39
    Frisbee
    Registered Users Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Frisbee


    jdivision wrote: »
    Frisbee, I don't have a problem with the way you dealt with it but it's something that I think needed to be said. i know you've a job to do but I think a lot of the people posting here in support of him are just reading a few pieces here and there and assuming certain things.

    I'm not going to debate this on thread.

    Drop me a PM if you want to discuss it further.

    Just don't refer to him as a scumbag again


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    #40
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    jdivision wrote: »
    Frisbee, I don't have a problem with the way you dealt with it but it's something that I think needed to be said. i know you've a job to do but I think a lot of the people posting here in support of him are just reading a few pieces here and there and assuming certain things.

    Bullsh1t to be honest you like the rest of us are reading all the crap in the media. So unless you have a direct link to what actually happened that night we are entitled to our opinion on the situation. There is so much sh1te about what happened that night there is no way to tell what actually went on. There are fair few pieces written that squashed half the crap you just rabbled on about so it leaves us all to take what we want from it and form our own opinions. It seems you have already made up your mind on his guilt. If you read many of our posts on here you will see a lot of us have said innocent until proven guilty.

    We all know Big Ben has an attitude and makes poor decisions but with reasonable doubt it is hard to accept one side of the story and throw him under the bus and say he is guilty. I guess none of us will ever know exactly what went on but Im sorry you shooting down our opinions and calling us scumbags is just ridiculous.

    On and to be clear reading through it there was maybe only one person who said what he done was ok.


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    #41
    The Sparrow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭The Sparrow


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    So unless you have a direct link to what actually happened that night we are entitled to our opinion on the situation.

    Well there is a 500 odd page police report that has been released that does not portray Roethlisberger or the local police in a very good light. So it is not just hearsay that ppl are going on.


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    #42
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,716 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    American law is just so ridic.

    NFL examples,

    Donte Stallworth drives when legally drunk, kills somebody and gets 30 days in Jail.
    Plaxico Burress shoots himself accidentally while in possession of an illegal firearm and gets 2 years in jail.

    I mean something is not right here.

    In another state Roethlisberger would have been charged and very likely found guilty. A lot of crazy stuff has went on including the cop Sgt. Jerry Blash retiring over his comments to the accuser. He had a photo taken with Roethlisberger the night before. Then there is cops from that town that worked as bodyguards while off duty for Big Ben.


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    #43
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    The Sparrow wrote: »
    Well there is a 500 odd page police report that has been released that does not portray Roethlisberger or the local police in a very good light. So it is not just hearsay that ppl are going on.

    In fairness I have read the articles with part of that police report and to be honest it still doesn't prove his guilt. In fairness the only 2 people who knew what actually happened in that bathroom are Ben and the alleged Victim. Ben's friends went off his word and the girls friends gave statements of what happened on what their friend told them.

    Sure the events a slimey leading up to it and there is no doubt he was getting them drunk but if you read it she was 1 of 21 girls in the VIP area. As I said already there is no solid proof he raped that girl not even that police report proves it because none of them saw what went on in the bathroom. They merely saw the events before and after.

    For me I dont know what happened in that bathroom. Again I stick to my point He is a tool no doubt and should be banned under the NFL rules for public behaviour but I can't say with conviction he is a rapist. Simple as. Some common sense would tell maybe he did do something wrong but again who knows.

    For those interested make your own minds up:

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html


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    #44
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    hmmm. hadnt seen the written transcripts of that police report. in fairness, it doesnt make for pleasant reading. I suppose most of the media stuff I had read had played it off as a simple boy and girl fooling around report. whereas walking around with his lad out doesnt sound like someone fooling around. wouldnt want to be making judgements before trial, but I think my opinion is certainly changing on the matter. a lot more to it than it first seems. and ben is a bigger idiot than I gave him credit for.


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    #45
    The Sparrow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭The Sparrow


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    He is a tool no doubt and should be banned under the NFL rules for public behaviour but I can't say with conviction he is a rapist. Simple as. Some common sense would tell maybe he did do something wrong but again who knows.

    Oh I completely agree. I'm not saying he is a rapist either as nothing has been proven and he therefore gets the benefit of doubt. I'm just defending the NFL's or the Steelers right to punish him under the personal conduct policy.

    And like many Steelers fans, I want rid of him. Too much hassle. I know that probably means a period in the wilderness but I admire the moral standards of the club. I'll never cheer for Roethlisberger again.


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    #46
    TheHeadhunter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭TheHeadhunter


    Frisbee wrote: »


    I then explained to you through PM that if that it's your opinion then more power to you. I merely asked you not to call him a scumbag on thread gain.
    .


    What are we censoring free speech around here now?


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    #47
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    TheHeadhunter wrote: »
    What are we censoring free speech around here now?

    Have to agree although he called big ben and anyone who defends him a scumbag I have to agree there is no malice in that. I don't agree with his opinion meself hence why I replied but it wasn't ban worthy in my opinion sure heck we have all crossed that line on here before and gotten away with it.


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    #48
    The Sparrow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭The Sparrow


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    Have to agree although he called big ben and anyone who defends him a scumbag I have to agree there is no malice in that. I don't agree with his opinion meself hence why I replied but it wasn't ban worthy in my opinion sure heck we have all crossed that line on here before and gotten away with it.

    Yeah I agree too. Plus he didn't technically call anyone that defends him a scumbag. Just anyone that thinks its ok to get a girl drunk and "follow her - without being invited to do so - into a jacks and mess around with her". I would assume that is everybody's definition of a scumbag and I assumed jdivision wasn't talking about people here who are defending Roesthlisberger's right to innocence as he was never found guilty and not defending rape.

    Plus jdivision only said that he tconsidered Roethlisberger a scumbag. Surely he is entitled to his opinion? Is scumbag that bad a word?


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    #49
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    The Sparrow wrote: »
    I assumed jdivision wasn't talking about people here who are defending Roesthlisberger's right to innocence as he was never found guilty and not defending rape.

    Considering no one was defending rape or the alleged actions I also assumed this.
    The Sparrow wrote: »
    Plus jdivision only said that he tconsidered Roethlisberger a scumbag. Surely he is entitled to his opinion? Is scumbag that bad a word?

    I didn't think scumbag was a bad word either and to be honest if someone called me one I would laugh meself but I suppose to each their own.


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    #50
    Frisbee
    Registered Users Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Frisbee


    tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »
    it wasn't ban worthy in my opinion

    Hence why he wasn't banned.

    If people think players are scumbags that's fair enough.

    But can they not express their opinion on him without calling him a scumbag?

    Surely a well structured argument will stand you in better stead than calling him a scumbag?


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    #51
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Frisbee wrote: »
    Hence why he wasn't banned.

    If people think players are scumbags that's fair enough.

    But can they not express their opinion on him without calling him a scumbag?

    Surely a well structured argument will stand you in better stead than calling him a scumbag?

    To me a Ban or an Infraction are the same thing especially when it wasn't called for.

    To be honest Frisbee I think Big Ben is a waste of space and I would agree his action whether guilty or not are nothing short of Scum baggery. He is a big boy and supposed to be a model professional. There have been a lot worse things said about players on this forum in the past and I have to say the infraction was unnecessary.

    I like most don't see scumbag as a word that is worthy of a infraction or slap on the wrist especially when indirectly said about someone who puts themselves in the situation to deserve the tag. It would be different if none of us knew who big ben was and we based our opinions off one article but in fairness this isnt the first time he has been in the news for his rubber head actions. You put yourself in the publics eye and do something stupid you deserve any tag put on you.


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    #52
    The Sparrow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭The Sparrow


    So Frisbee what words are allowed to express an opinion of a person? I'm not trying to be smart, I just want to get it clear so I know the lie of the land. Is anything mildly offensive against the rules? Where do we draw the line?

    Also, why the bold? Is that really necessary? Surely a well structured argument will stand you in better stead than using bold to add emphasis to your posts?;):)


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    #53
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    scumbag is not exactly that high of an insult. It might be uncalled for\bannable in a forum like soccer but not here IMO

    Im not too high on Big Ben's actions either FWIW.


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    #54
    frostie500
    Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭frostie500


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    scumbag is not exactly that high of an insult. It might be uncalled for\bannable in a forum like soccer but not here IMO.

    I'd have to agree with the rest of the posters on this, we're all a fairly tight knit group here on this forum and we've all built up a rapport with one another, and would all view each other with respect, and I dont think anyone would take offence at what JDivision said.

    Maybe it's a case of us being 'self-regulated-, for want of a better plhrase, for so long but I think that giving warnings etc. for an action that it seems no other user of this forum finds offensive to be a step too far.


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    #55
    Frisbee
    Registered Users Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Frisbee


    The Sparrow wrote: »
    I'm not trying to be smart

    Fair enough.
    The Sparrow wrote: »
    Also, why the bold? Is that really necessary? Surely a well structured argument will stand you in better stead than using bold to add emphasis to your posts?;):)

    Oh wait you are trying to be smart.

    I use bold when talking as a Mod.

    And regular font when just giving my poster opinions.

    It's fairly common practice for Mods on Boards.


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    #56
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Frisbee wrote: »
    Fair enough.



    Oh wait you are trying to be smart.

    I use bold when talking as a Mod.

    And regular font when just giving my poster opinions.

    It's fairly common practice for Mods on Boards.

    Ah now is fairness I think he was having a laugh. I know I chuckled in a non sinister way :D


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    #57
    The Sparrow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭The Sparrow


    Frisbee wrote: »
    Oh wait you are trying to be smart.

    No I was just asking a friendly question. Combined with your punishment of jdivision for using a fairly innocuous word, the bold seemed a bit heavy handed to me.


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    #58
    Frisbee
    Registered Users Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Frisbee


    The Sparrow wrote: »
    No I was just asking a friendly question. Combined with your punishment of jdivision for using a fairly innocuous word, the bold seemed a bit heavy handed to me.

    Bold when I'm talking as a Mod so if someone is skimming through a thread and see bold font they know to read as it's something being said as a Mod. As I said, it's fairly common practice on boards.ie

    Normal font when I'm just talking as a poster.

    I'm not going to delete all the previous posts but can we stop discussing Mod decisions on thread and de-railing it please.

    Drop me a PM or if you feel strongly enough post up a Feedback thread.


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    #59
    The Sparrow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭The Sparrow


    Frisbee wrote: »
    Bold when I'm talking as a Mod so if someone is skimming through a thread and see bold font they know to read as it's something being said as a Mod. As I said, it's fairly common practice on boards.ie

    Normal font when I'm just talking as a poster.
    [/B]

    Yeah I got that the first time.


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    #60
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Ben to be banned for 6 weeks, he could get out in 4 with good behaviour (as in try not to sexually assault somebody in the next 4 weeks, Ben):

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121614


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    #61
    frostie500
    Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭frostie500


    Hazys wrote: »
    Ben to be banned for 6 weeks, he could get out in 4 with good behaviour (as in try not to sexually assault somebody in the next 4 weeks, Ben):

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121614
    So he'll definitly miss the first four:
    Falcons
    at Titans
    at Bucs
    Ravens
    Does a bye count in this suspension? If not he would also miss the game against the Dolphins.
    bye
    Browns


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