Dogs required to have Muzzles

sonichic

Hi all
looking for some advice. One of our neighbours walk their dogs on a regular basis. They have two dogs, one is a boxer and the other I cannot identify. The problem I have is that when you pass them the boxer growls aggressively and will atemp to jump towards you in an aggressive way. The ower has the dogs on a lead but I really think they should be wearing muzzles. I would like to get this sorted amicably as it has happened to us 2 or 3 times recently as we pass. Any advice please
thanks

andreac

Unless its a restricted breed it is not required to wear a muzzle by law.

If your dog or yourself has been attacked by this dog then report it to the dog warden.

But if the dog is only growling and jumping when you pass then that does not warrant anything really. Dogs are dogs and not all are dog friendly but if its on a lead then i dont see the problem really as its under control.

peasant

sonichic wrote: »

boxer growls aggressively ...
....The ower has the dogs on a lead

In the case of a boxer that's all the owner is legally required to do ... keep them on a lead.

How about approaching your neighbour in a nice way (best when not with the dogs) and explain to him that his growling boxer makes you nervous / uncomfortable and could he please try and avoid you when he's with the dog.

CreedonsDogDayc

Boxers arent on the restricted breeds list so dont need to be muzzled.

Best thing to do is just cross the road when they're coming so they dont give you a fright!

sonichic

ok thanks all, he really is agressive and when I say jump I should have been more clear. The dog growls and snaps and tries to bite your sleeve. I'm not convinced you would get away undamaged if he managed to escapr from his owner.

it's a tricky one with this particular neighbour :eek:
but thanks for your help,

ISDW

As everyone has said, by law he's not on the restricted breed list, so doesn't have to be muzzled because of that. However, I would suggest that, if you can't talk to the neighbour, that you call the dog warden and explain your concerns and how the dog makes you feel. A dog can still be made to wear a muzzle if its considerd to be a 'dangerous dog', even if its not a restricted breed.

Best of luck, I am a dog owner and love dogs, but don't think that people should be made fearful in that way.

sonichic

I love dogs too, I have always had dog in my house. i know dogs can appear aggressive when they actually aren't, it's tricky. that's why i came here to see what other people thought.
I thought there was a restriction on the boxer, which are a lovely breed but i know are so loyal and protective to their owners.
i'm comfortable now with the info i got here so thanks all

boodlesdoodles

ISDW wrote: »

As everyone has said, by law he's not on the restricted breed list, so doesn't have to be muzzled because of that. However, I would suggest that, if you can't talk to the neighbour, that you call the dog warden and explain your concerns and how the dog makes you feel. A dog can still be made to wear a muzzle if its considerd to be a 'dangerous dog', even if its not a restricted breed.

Best of luck, I am a dog owner and love dogs, but don't think that people should be made fearful in that way.

I can second this about talking to the dog warden. My little doggie was attacked a few weeks back by a dog breed that's not listed on the restricted breed list and the dog warden told me he could advise the owner to muzzle the dog as he had proved dog aggressive, therefore, would need extra control for their sake and other animals/people's sake. He told the owner his concerns as the dog had attacked other dogs previously in the area. Unfortunately, I haven't seen that dog for ages and I feel terrible that the owner may have had him rehomed or put down but I have to reconcile it with the fact that their dog tried earnestly to kill my dog.

So after that rant, yes contact the warden, they don't even have to tell the owner someone made a complaint.

sonichic

ok, thanks for that. I tyhink i'll give them a call. I'm sure we're not the first the dog has "gone for". A respnsible owner would muzzle the dog.

ppink

did you talk to the owner about it. what are they saying?

we had a GSD who constantly tried to grab your hand or sleeve. If you gav ehim your sleeve he would trot along happily beside you holding it. He was just trying to play trying to grab your hand but it could be scary to anyone who did not know.
Before anyone starts criticising he came to us like that and it took a while to sort it out and divert him to another "toy".
He did not growl though!

Maybe you could just say to the owner that the dog is beginning to scare you?

Graces7

We saw a wee dog in Town muzzled last week; clearly the owners know it can bite?

TaraR

Graces7 wrote: »

We saw a wee dog in Town muzzled last week; clearly the owners know it can bite?

Just Because A Dog Is Wearing A Muzzle Does Not Mean That He/She Will Bite Or Be Agreesive. For Example The Breeds That Listed On The 'Restricted Dogs List' Are Required By Law To Wear A Muzzle & Be Leashed.I Have 3 Staffies & 1 Pitbull They Have To Wear A Muzzle Because Of There Breed.

Peter Banks

Unfortunately, the Breed Specific Legislation does make it a legal requirement to muzzle certain dogs, even though they may never have shown ANY tendencies toward biting or any other aggressive behaviour.

Typically it is the smaller "Terrier types" that demonstrate aggression and yet it is perfectly acceptable for them to be unmuzzled!

Statistically, you are most likely to be bitten by a lovable Lab? And they most certainly aren't on the Restricted List? Mad, eh!

iguana

Graces7 wrote: »

We saw a wee dog in Town muzzled last week; clearly the owners know it can bite?

There can be other reasons for muzzling a dog. I put muzzles on my two for a while after Toby suffered kidney failure due to poisoning. I'm not sure exactly what caused it but somebody was leaving raisin loaves out in the park (for the birds) and raisins cause renal failure in dogs. I didn't want to take a chance on them eating the raisins or anything else poisonous, so I decided to muzzle them for a while.

H123

Wearing a muzzle does not mean the dog is aggressive or dangerous. I get some funny looks when I take off my terriers muzzle and then let him off! But he is only muzzled for the walk through our area as he and a neighbour lab hate each other to the extent my dog actually would bite me to get at him. Its a strange one as he is safe round all dogs and people otherwise. In particular he is very respectful of me always, and I can take away food, and do things he will tolerate form no one else. Its like he looses his mind. When he was a puppy he and this lab had a bad run in and whatever the lab did to him he has not forgotten.

And before you think I am too soft and he could do it to another dog... He is 10 years old, is regularly walked by one of my neighbours as well as myself and she has seen the problem but also the behaviour otherwise and in 8 years has never had any issue with him either with other dogs or with people. She did not even believe me when I inisted he had a pscyhotic episode if he met the lab and could bite her as well as it if unmuzzled until she had seen it for herself.

If your dog is aggressive either on or off the leash, muzzle it. It's safer. Can you muzzle a boxer though? They don't have much nose?

Oranage2

Peter Banks wrote: »

Unfortunately, the Breed Specific Legislation does make it a legal requirement to muzzle certain dogs, even though they may never have shown ANY tendencies toward biting or any other aggressive behaviour.

Typically it is the smaller "Terrier types" that demonstrate aggression and yet it is perfectly acceptable for them to be unmuzzled!

Statistically, you are most likely to be bitten by a lovable Lab? And they most certainly aren't on the Restricted List? Mad, eh!

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a pit bull type dog so thats why they need mussling

andreac

Oranage2 wrote: »

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a pit bull type dog so thats why they need mussling

Have you got proof of these statistics to show us?

seamus

Oranage2 wrote: »

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a pit bull type dog so thats why they need mussling

Link please or that's complete nonsense.

ISDW

Oranage2 wrote: »

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a pit bull type dog so thats why they need mussling

Really? I would love to see these statistics, could you put them up please.

arybvtcw0eolkf

iguana wrote: »

There can be other reasons for muzzling a dog. I put muzzles on my two for a while after Toby suffered kidney failure due to poisoning. I'm not sure exactly what caused it but somebody was leaving raisin loaves out in the park (for the birds) and raisins cause renal failure in dogs. I didn't want to take a chance on them eating the raisins or anything else poisonous, so I decided to muzzle them for a while.

Sorry to go off topic, but thanks for that information.

I eat a lot of raisins (and other fruits) with my brekkie and there's nothing my dogs love more than to get my left overs!.

Sorry agn for going off topic.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Oranage2 wrote: »

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a pit bull type dog so thats why they need mussling

+1...

My Pitbull type dogs are almost into double kill figures, I'm surprised I'm the only one here :rolleyes:

Btw, whats a "Pit Bull type dog"?.

lrushe

Oranage2 wrote: »

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a pit bull type dog so thats why they need mussling

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

morganafay

Tatiana Thoughtless Engineer wrote: »

Sorry to go off topic, but thanks for that information.

I eat a lot of raisins (and other fruits) with my brekkie and there's nothing my dogs love more than to get my left overs!.

Sorry agn for going off topic.

Yeah, my dad was on a forum and someone posted that their dog had died from eating raisins. I think the dog ate about half a bag. Though I've heard that only 20 raisins can kill a collie. I'm sure that a few don't usually hurt, mine have had them before I heard that, but now I don't risk it . . .

morganafay

You can use statistics to prove anything . . . 80% of all people know that.

morganafay

H123 wrote: »

Wearing a muzzle does not mean the dog is aggressive or dangerous. I get some funny looks when I take off my terriers muzzle and then let him off! But he is only muzzled for the walk through our area as he and a neighbour lab hate each other to the extent my dog actually would bite me to get at him. Its a strange one as he is safe round all dogs and people otherwise. In particular he is very respectful of me always, and I can take away food, and do things he will tolerate form no one else. Its like he looses his mind. When he was a puppy he and this lab had a bad run in and whatever the lab did to him he has not forgotten.

One of my neighbours dogs, a boxer, is like that with one of my dogs. They just don't like each other. The boxer always goes for her and my dog is now really scared of her and has fainted twice at the sight of her! But the boxer is lovely to my two other dogs and I think she's a very friendly dog. My old dog really hate this pom and the pom hated her on time at a dog show, but neither of them had any problem with any other dogs. Some dogs just clash!

Oranage2

Tatiana Thoughtless Engineer wrote: »

+1...

My Pitbull type dogs are almost into double kill figures, I'm surprised I'm the only one here :rolleyes:

Btw, whats a "Pit Bull type dog"?.

^^ LOL i dont want to come across as a WUM or anything,
*but pit bull type dogs are the american pitbull terrier, staffordshire bull terrier, staffordshire terrier, bulldog, english bull terrier and a mix of the above.

I cant find the information now but it shows that in the U.S the *pitt bull is responsible for for the most deaths by a dog followed by the rottweillers then german shepard.

although pitts and rotts do score well in temperment tests and less likely to bite, but if they do bite they'll cause more damage then a terrier or a smaller dog. (dogs most likely to bite in ireland are the Collies, Cocker/Springer Spaniels, Terrier breeds, Jack Russell Terriers, German Shepherds, and Golden Retrievers)*http://vega.ucd.ie/news/0710_october/081007_dog_bite.html

It's a shame for responsible pitt and rott owners that these are the choice dog of the chav which dont train their dogs in obedience and socialize the dogs so the general public think these dogs are dangerous.

Restricted breed list that need muzzling in ireland

• American Pit Bull Terrier

• Bull Mastiff

• Doberman Pinscher

• English Bull Terrier

• German Shepherd (Alsatian)

• Japanese Akita

• Japanese Tosa

• Rhodesian Ridgeback

• Rottweiler

• Staffordshire Bull Terrier

I do like pit bulls but still think they should be muzzled along with the current list just because of the potential danger, i also think boxers and labredour/golden retrievers should need muzzling and any dog should not be allowed just wander without supervision.


http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html fun game to play that leaves food for thought

Oranage2

link to dog bite statistics - pretty much every website shows the same details though i'm very sceptible on how reputale they are

http://old.swivel.com/data_sets/show/1007511

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf a list of dog attacks U.S

Europe http://www.scribd.com/doc/24388086/Fatal-Dog-Attacks-Europe-2006-2009 rottweiller is a more popular breed in europe

http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/m0047723/m0047723.asp reputle site on dog attacks in U.S

i could add hundreds of other stats to show american pitt bull terrier, american staffs, rotts and german shepards cause most deaths for un-reputale websites. though common sense shos that big dogs with powerfull jaws and long teath are more of a danger then a small terrier that nips at ankles.

I'm sure you think only mistreated dogs kill people but there's a lot of cases that show family pets savaging kids and the UCD report shows that you are most likely to know the the dog that attacks.

When i was young i remember being chased by vicious mongrel terriers or labradors that where just allowed to roam and it was all fun but in U.S and its a growing trend here is to just let your pit bull un-attended on the street and if it attacks its going to do some damage.

andreac

[QUOTE=Oranage2;65824605

Restricted breed list that need muzzling in ireland

• American Pit Bull Terrier

• Bull Mastiff

• Doberman Pinscher

• English Bull Terrier

• German Shepherd (Alsatian)

• Japanese Akita

• Japanese Tosa

• Rhodesian Ridgeback

• Rottweiler

• Staffordshire Bull Terrier

I do like pit bulls but still think they should be muzzled along with the current list just because of the potential danger, i also think boxers and labredour/golden retrievers should need muzzling and any dog should not be allowed just wander without supervision.


http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html fun game to play that leaves food for thought[/QUOTE]

We all know whats on the list so no need to post it up.

I think its ridiculous to think all dogs need muzzling and any dog can be a potential threat, not just the ones on the stupid list.

Personally the only dogs i think should be muzzled are ones that are known to be people or dog aggressive and not just because of their breed.:mad:

A pit bull is a breed so how can you say that a staffie, bull dog, bull terrier etc are pit bull types as they are far from that??

lrushe

Oranage2 wrote: »

i could add hundreds of other stats to show american pitt bull terrier, american staffs, rotts and german shepards cause most deaths for un-reputale websites. though common sense shos that big dogs with powerfull jaws and long teath are more of a danger then a small terrier that nips at ankles.

"small terrier that nips at ankles"???? I tell that to my friends small daughter who is still suffering the effects of a Westie bite to the face which ended in 56 stitches and a broken tooth.:rolleyes:

Oranage2

lrushe wrote: »

"small terrier that nips at ankles"???? I tell that to my friends small daughter who is still suffering the effects of a Westie bite to the face which ended in 56 stitches and a broken tooth.:rolleyes:

I hope your daughter gets better and i understand your point that any dog can attck.

Haven brought this tread topic way off i'll just summerize:

*the restricted breeds are big, have a powerful bite force and if they do attack the injuries suffered are going to be worse then a non-restricted breed in many cases. They are unforetunetly also the choice dog of the irresponsible chav owner and the typical case is seeing some guy with a cap and tracksuit having a staf thats pulling on the lead and showing agression towards other dogs. This is why i like seing the restricted breeds with muzzles.

I also think that other dogs need to be put more dogs on the list like boxers, huskies and labradors.

* Never leave any dog un-attended with a child.


Maybe if a once off licence that costs €5000 for any dog and if your dog attacks another dog or person and does damage then you lose the €5k. If it doesnt attack then you get back the money when you dog dies. This should cut out chav owners, dogs being left wandering the streets and it will also make getting a dog a serious decision. Also dog training classes and dog sosilizing classes should be law.
If this was the case i'd be happy that no dog should have to wear a muzzle


side note: better listen to the power mad wardens cause they actually have powers.
Dog Wardens

Dog wardens have the power to request the name and address of a person suspected of an offence under the Control of Dogs Act 1986. They also have the power to seize and detain any dog and to enter any premises, other than a residence with 5 or more dogs, to seize and detain a dog. You are guilty of an offence and can be arrested by a Garda if you obstruct a dog warden in the course of his or her work, refuse to give your name and address or give a false name and address

antomagoo

Oranage2 wrote: »

side note: better listen to the power mad wardens cause they actually have powers.
Dog Wardens

Dog wardens have the power to request the name and address of a person suspected of an offence under the Control of Dogs Act 1986. They also have the power to seize and detain any dog and to enter any premises, other than a residence with 5 or more dogs, to seize and detain a dog. You are guilty of an offence and can be arrested by a Garda if you obstruct a dog warden in the course of his or her work, refuse to give your name and address or give a false name and address

On this, if for example someone reports you for walking your listed breed dog off muzzle can the warden just turn up at your home and seize the dog, I mean the only evidence they have to go on is someones hear say. Is it a case of getting a warning and next time its reported they seize the dog?

(I would never walk a listed breed off muzzle in public BTW )

ISDW

Oranage2 wrote: »

I hope your daughter gets better and i understand your point that any dog can attck.

Haven brought this tread topic way off i'll just summerize:

*the restricted breeds are big, have a powerful bite force and if they do attack the injuries suffered are going to be worse then a non-restricted breed in many cases. They are unforetunetly also the choice dog of the irresponsible chav owner and the typical case is seeing some guy with a cap and tracksuit having a staf thats pulling on the lead and showing agression towards other dogs. This is why i like seing the restricted breeds with muzzles.

I also think that other dogs need to be put more dogs on the list like boxers, huskies and labradors.

* Never leave any dog un-attended with a child.


Maybe if a once off licence that costs €5000 for any dog and if your dog attacks another dog or person and does damage then you lose the €5k. If it doesnt attack then you get back the money when you dog dies. This should cut out chav owners, dogs being left wandering the streets and it will also make getting a dog a serious decision. Also dog training classes and dog sosilizing classes should be law.
If this was the case i'd be happy that no dog should have to wear a muzzle


side note: better listen to the power mad wardens cause they actually have powers.
Dog Wardens

Dog wardens have the power to request the name and address of a person suspected of an offence under the Control of Dogs Act 1986. They also have the power to seize and detain any dog and to enter any premises, other than a residence with 5 or more dogs, to seize and detain a dog. You are guilty of an offence and can be arrested by a Garda if you obstruct a dog warden in the course of his or her work, refuse to give your name and address or give a false name and address

Please explain why boxers, huskies and labradors should be on the list? A responsible husky owner will never let them off the lead anyway, so the irresponsible ones that do are the same ones that wouldn't muzzle etc if required to anyway.

But, please do explain your reasoning behind those 3 breeds. It can't be that they are big and powerful, which seems to be your main reason for wanting dogs on the list in the first place.

lrushe

Oranage2 wrote: »

Maybe if a once off licence that costs €5000 for any dog and if your dog attacks another dog or person and does damage then you lose the €5k. If it doesnt attack then you get back the money when you dog dies. This should cut out chav owners, dogs being left wandering the streets and it will also make getting a dog a serious decision. Also dog training classes and dog sosilizing classes should be law.
If this was the case i'd be happy that no dog should have to wear a muzzle

The only people ever to suffer at the hands of laws like this is the responsible ones, those who aren't responsible will never obey the laws and they are too hard to police properly so nothing will change except those with the best interests of their animals will have more and more restrictions put on them, hardly fair is it???

cjf

Its a catch 22 situation . . I have a fab dobie fella and staff x girly and they have no agression issues with any dogs or people (the bichon freise , maltese, cavalier, lurcher and lab that they spend their holidays with can vouch for that!)

I have a muzzel for my guy (as is required) and I never let him off the lead in a public place. We walk on the beach and often all the other dogs are off leads and running up teasing him. Understandably he gets excited and then frustrated as he is all strapped up glued to my side and they are running at him from all angles! He is only 15 months old just a pup really he starts to bounce and whine because he cant play and they wont leave him alone at this point without fail I will get the all of a sudden so concerned owner of the dog thats just let off to do what ever it wants over to shake there head snatch up their dog and sometimes have a little shout.

Socialisation is just not an option with these guys unless you pay for classes just to let them meet other dogs (which I have to do). Its awful that we have this negative experience when out walking responsibly minding our own business. He loves meeting dogs and people and he doesnt know what he is but Im pretty sure in a few years when his puppy phase passes all the negative experiences will have an effect on his personality. . .if people crossed the street everytime they saw me coming, threw filthy looks when I said hello, grabbed anyone I was taking to and yanked them away and tutted at me for just being me It would defo take its toll.

As for my staff x girly she is registered as a boxer cross and im sticking to with that.

TooManyDogs

I have a GSD x that always makes people see how ridiculous the muzzle law is, they take one look at her and say that she doesn't need to be muzzled. I remind them that by law she should be and they can't believe the law includes her too.



I think the law is ridiculous and all that will end up happening is breeds will continue to be added until it's quicker to list the dogs that don't need to be muzzled.

As far as I'm aware the dog warden can't enforce the muzzle law, only the gardai can. Whatever part of legislation it falls under isn't part of the warden's remit, so despite the blustering they go on with they can only advise you of that particular law and threaten to report you to the gardai. So I don't muzzle my dog because I think it's a stupid law, and as I live quite rural I never see the warden or a guard from one end of the year to the next. It's very Irish I know to only obey laws I agree with but there you go..... I always obey the scoop your poo law, that one I do agree with!

DBCyc

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I have a GSD x that always makes people see how ridiculous the muzzle law is, they take one look at her and say that she doesn't need to be muzzled. I remind them that by law she should be and they can't believe the law includes her too.



I think the law is ridiculous and all that will end up happening is breeds will continue to be added until it's quicker to list the dogs that don't need to be muzzled.

Well said, I fully agree.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the dog warden can't enforce the muzzle law, only the gardai can. Whatever part of legislation it falls under isn't part of the warden's remit, so despite the blustering they go on with they can only advise you of that particular law and threaten to report you to the gardai. So I don't muzzle my dog because I think it's a stupid law, and as I live quite rural I never see the warden or a guard from one end of the year to the next. It's very Irish I know to only obey laws I agree with but there you go..... I always obey the scoop your poo law, that one I do agree with!

Where did you get that information from? I thought that the wardens were fully responsible for ensuring people muzzle restricted dog breeds. Around where I live the Gardaí definitely dont care, maybe it would be different if someone complained to them about a certain dog.

Also it seems as some wardens dont agree/care about the law either cos I've met wardens with my staffy and they have said nothing about muzzling her.

TooManyDogs

DBCyc wrote: »

Where did you get that information from?

I was told that the muzzle law is actually a law under the legal system therefore only enforcible by a guard. The dog wardens have powers under the Control of Dogs Act, and isn't part of the legal system as such. Here's a link to the Irish Statute under which the Act falls, there's no mention of muzzle laws

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/index.html

I'm open to correction but I think it was a mistake on the goverments part that the muzzle law was not added to control of dogs act. The wardens act like they can inforce it cos it drives them nuts that they can't and the gardai can't be bothered. I reckon it's why the wardens let so many people off with a warning, cos it's all they can do!

seamus

The way that law works is that you have a Principle Act which sets out the law. If you want to make changes to that Act, you issue a "new" Act, which makes reference to the Principle Act. When citing law, you always refer to the principle Act, no matter how many times it's been changed.

If you're ever cautioned by the Gardai for a road traffic offence, they'll refer to the Road Traffic Act of 1960-something even though 20 or so Road Traffic Acts have been made since then.

In this case, the Control of Dogs Act, 1986 is the Principle Act, however, it's been amended at least twice, and the restricted breeds list is set down in the Control of Dogs (Restriction of Certain Dogs) Regulations, 1991. These regulations are enacted based on the laws of the Principle Act, which give dog wardens the power to enforce muzzling and leashing laws.