Making ourselves offishul

ayjayirl

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Agree with Orim on keeping it at 15 euro, if we're getting money left over at the rate we were last time, it means that we're going to be able to fund equipment etc. quite fast (should be able to buy recording equipment after the next Inferno if we get around as much as last time).


Mid-May for the first tournament and then last Saturday of the month sounds grand.

Seeding I have no preference on.

Seeding = fine;

Start/Mid/Late - doesn't matter, some will always have issues with any but if it is fixed then it will allow people to make arrangments so just pick one and stick to it!

Entry fee: I think that it should be kept at 15 for the time being. In order to grow this properly we are going to need capital for equipment and possible venue rental (xgc is already looking like it wont be big enough if we keep growing at this rate). By keeping it at 15 we will be able to build it up, get equip and run it like a not for profit business using retained earnings for investment for community needs.

I will say one thing guys, in order to grow this properly and in the good will way that has been done so far, I would suggest formalising a committee for its organisation whereby duties can be assigned. You can then vote yearly/bi-annually for a change to the committee based on nominations. Alternatively you could have a 'pool of willing' (can't help but thing of GWB's coalition of the willing here =p) and work of a rotation bases. Either way is fine by me but I think the voting one would be in the best interests of the community.

I cannot understate the importance of this move for the good of growing this to a sustainable level. I am not suggesting this because I am unhappy with how it has been done to date (In fact I think all those involved in the organisation have been exemplary so far) but if this is something that we want to grow then you need a fair structure like the one suggested. You could then assign a treasurer and open an account to organise the monies and protect the investment.

Just my 2 cents - I hold an MBA from Smurfit Business School and am willing to share my expertise and experience (if its useful) to this and I know there are others in the community who have some good ideas and are willing to help and make a go of it. e.g. Azza, Jim, Sisko ...... the list goes on and I am sure I would forget someone so I will use the .... to cover all, and then there are those who make the travel commitments from the north and west of the country. I also have a company with hosting platforms and web tech that will allow the growth of this from the website that will integrated with this forum..... More to follow on this one - I need to determine if this is desired by people, but again, this could be a decision the committee could make....

Anyway, if this belongs elsewhere and merits a separate discussion then Mods, by all means, move it to a new thread.

Sairus

I was going to suggest this at the next Ranbat. Not quite so coherantly though, gg there AyJay.
Basically anything that's starting to build up to the point that the Inferno's have gotten needs to be run with a commitee - especially if equipment purchasing starts coming into it. As also said, the guys currently running things are doing a fairly spot on job so ggs to you too.

animaX

cue Azza = dictator references :P

I agree with this, it would be nice to have a real structure and to have delegation of responsibilities. That way you'll know who to talk to if you have any issues

I'll nominate myself for the role of Tier Expert :pac:

ayjayirl

animaX wrote: »

cue Azza = dictator references :P

I agree with this, it would be nice to have a real structure and to have delegation of responsibilities. That way you'll know who to talk to if you have any issues

I'll nominate myself for the role of Tier Expert :pac:

seconded.....


Please throw your 2 cents in on this one but I think a committee of 5 sounds about right?

1) Chairperson
2) Treasurer
3) Secretary
4) PRO
5) Event Officer

This will always give a majority for committee vote (a good thing to have for decisions) . There maybe other positions that would be necessary but I think that these 5 would be more than enough for now. The duties of each would be clearly specified in the first manifesto/charter that we can, I am sure, come up with.

You can then have an official liaison for other organisations (i.e Dragon slayer and other conventions that we can represent at), and also a structured team to administer it. This isn't rocket science, credit unions, other club etc etc have all gone this way and has been the proven model to work in those instances. We can then form a committee web portal (I can help with this - or integrate it with streetfighter.ie ?) for all the admin stuff and keep the event organisation as a separate element (good for branding and attention and hype ). A structure like this would also allow for official contact with capcom for support as well as opening opportunities to seek sponsorship for events. We could have an official supplier whereby they might even look at supplying some gear or offering discounts (10%) to group members for buying all their paraphernalia through them (GAMESNASH???? et al) and really make a go of it?

The only thing I will say guys is that whomever is going to be on the committee will need to take on the responsibility for running it and that would mean that the best way of doing that might be to have the best person for the job nominated and not necessarily someone who would be unable to make the commitment.

Speed Boat

Some sort of committee is a good call. Especially with money involved and the plans to purchase some equipment and so on.

Sisko

Interesting stuff.


I have great faith in this community and proud to be apart of it. I'm fully dedicated to it , I look forward to giving it more of my time in the next few months when I've this college project done.

We have a lot of dedicated people in this community who contribute what they can to different areas of the scene.

Its only a matter of time before we have an annual all Ireland fighting game tournament. Our very own evo. And I'll be damned if that's held in XGC! hahaha.

So yes, a thread such as this is a damn good idea, we need to start planning for the future.

I'd be proud to be a member of this committee if this is the route we take.

Azza

Sairus wrote:

I was going to suggest this at the next Ranbat. Not quite so coherantly though, gg there AyJay.
Basically anything that's starting to build up to the point that the Inferno's have gotten needs to be run with a commitee - especially if equipment purchasing starts coming into it.

Before deciding on using left over money from the entry fee of the Inferno competitions best to make sure a majority of community attendees are on board with the idea. Price is an issue for a significant minority of people. There is a line of logic that lowering the entry fee would attract more players. Best do a vote on it.

ayjayirl

Azza wrote: »

Before deciding on using left over money from the entry fee of the Inferno competitions best to make sure a majority of community attendees are on board with the idea. Price is an issue for a significant minority of people. There is a line of logic that lowering the entry fee would attract more players. Best do a vote on it.

agreed. I was thinking more for when the next Ranbat is done (i.e. we will all be there) we can take 5 minutes to a y/n hands up vote on forming a committee (afterall, all those there will be avid community members). The entry fee for the next one though should be a vote on this forum...

ayjayirl

Sisko wrote: »

Interesting stuff.


I have great faith in this community and proud to be apart of it. I'm fully dedicated to it , I look forward to giving it more of my time in the next few months when I've this college project done.

We have a lot of dedicated people in this community who contribute what they can to different areas of the scene.

Its only a matter of time before we have an annual all Ireland fighting game tournament. Our very own evo. And I'll be damned if that's held in XGC! hahaha.

So yes, a thread such as this is a damn good idea, we need to start planning for the future.

I'd be proud to be a member of this committee if this is the route we take.

AH Eircom..... Can't start canvasing until the vote on whether to form a committee has been done =p (just kiddin).... I would second your nomination to it should it be decided by vote to go ahead with it.

Retr0gamer

I second this motion.

Sairus

I used to be of the disposition that the tournaments were too expensive - but that was before I realised some of the run-off was going towards purchasing better equipment. I'd be totally okay with the current price point if recording software and maybe a new venue were eventually in the works.
However, having said that I reckon that's a whole other thread.

1) Chairperson
2) Treasurer
3) Secretary
4) PRO
5) Event Officer

From what I gather that's how most societies and whatnot are run, so I'd be grand with that. I wouldn't know any of yee well enough to even know who generally runs what at the tournies, so I'd leave that vote to someone else.

Azza

I suggest we establish a Dictatorship where all the decision making is done by people who main M.Bison, after all we don't want the untermenschen from Dublin screwing things up, they even tolerate Guile players up there, they just can't be trusted to make sound decisions.

Bison players on the other hand are not from Dublin and are therefore utter class.

Sagat06

Methinks whether Azza is voted in or not, he'll be ruling running this by the end of the year

**Dictator
1) Chairperson
2) Treasurer
3) Secretary
4) PRO
5) Event Officer

But yeah its a great idea. And would add a bit of clout when looking for sponsorships etc

Monkeyto

Azza wrote: »

I suggest we establish a Dictatorship where all the decision making is done by people who main M.Bison, after all we don't want the untermenschen from Dublin screwing things up, they even tolerate Guile players up there, they just can't be trusted to make sound decisions.

Bison players on the other hand are not from Dublin and are therefore utter class.

This is my favourite post on the internet.

Azza

Monkeyto wrote:

This is my favourite post on the internet.

There shall be room for people like you in the new world order!

K.O.Kiki

All hail Azza!*

*ps: joke post as I'm one of the community's jokers. Or jokes. Please return to real discussion again

ayjayirl

I'm glad to see that there is some support of this idea as I think its a good way to grow it.

I was doin some research on what we can do and came up with (and/or copied) a constitution that covers the committee and other community affairs for running Street Fighter Ireland. These are just headings as such that we can all contribute to all be happy with. I will also say that I thought of this as a StreetFighter Society as such. This could be extended to Fighting Games of course.

I am sorry for the length of the post, I will try to section it out and use Bold where I can..

Constitution of the Streetfighter Ireland
Article 1 - Name of the Society

The name of the Society shall be "StreetFighter Ireland" hereinafter referred to as ‘SFI’.

Article 2 Aims of the Society The aims of the Society shall be to …..


Article 3 Membership
3.1 All members of the boards Street fighting community shall be entitled to membership.

3.2 Any eligible person shall become a member of the Society on signing their name to the official membership list of the Society.

Article 4 The Committee
4.1 A committee shall conduct the business of the Society.

4.2 The committee of the Society shall be elected at the Annual General Meeting, or, if necessary, at an Extraordinary General Meeting.

4.3 The committee shall consist of the following members:- the Chairperson; the Treasurer; the Secretary; the Public Relations Officer; the Events Officer. All members of the committee shall be required to be members of the Society.

4.4 The Chairperson
The Chairperson shall have overall responsibility for the affairs of the Society. He/She shall chair all meetings of the Society, save where decided otherwise by the committee or where otherwise provided for in this constitution.

4.5 Vice-Chairperson
The Vice-Chairperson shall assume the duties of the Chairperson should the Chairperson be absent or unable to fulfill his/her duties.

4.6 Treasurer
The Treasurer will manage the financial affairs of the Society, in consultation with the other committee members. He/She will maintain the financial records of the Society. He/She will prepare and present to the Society the end of year accounts and treasurers report for the Society.

4.8 Secretary
The Secretary shall keep the non-financial records of the Society, including the official membership list, and manage the correspondence of the Society and submitting the end of year report.

4.9 Public Relations Officer
The Public Relations Officer shall be responsible for advertising the meetings and events of the Society.

4.10 Events Officer
The Events Officer shall be responsible for the organisation and running of official events with consultation with the other officers

4.11 Committee Meetings
Meetings of the committee shall be held at least monthly] during the year. All members of the committee shall be entitled to attend and vote at such meetings.

The quorum for a meeting of the committee shall be 4 committee members.

Meetings of the committee shall be convened by the Chairperson or Secretary. At least 1 Week notice of a committee meeting shall be given by the Chairperson or Secretary to the members of the committee.

Term of Office of the Committee
The committee shall hold office from the ENTER DATE subsequent to their election until the ENTER DATE of the following year.

Article 5 General Meetings
The Annual General Meeting of the Society shall take place at least twice a year, at a time to be determined by the committee of the Society.

No less than [seven] days notice of the Annual General Meeting shall be given. The date and time of the A.G.M. shall be notified to the community members and advertised by public notice within community.

Extraordinary General Meetings
An Extraordinary General Meeting of the Society may be convened to:
(i) Hold an election to fill a vacancy on the committee, should one arise;
(ii) Consider a proposal to amend this constitution or any other governing instrument of the Society;
(iii) Address any other circumstance not provided for in this constitution.

An Extraordinary General Meeting shall be convened:
(i) By majority decision of the committee; or
(ii) On foot of a submission to the committee of the Society of a petition signed by not less than NUMBER members of the Society.
No less than NUMBER days notice of an Extraordinary General Meeting shall be given. The date and time of the E.G.M. shall be notified to the community and advertised by public notice within the forum.

Article 6 Election of the Committee
6.1 The committee of the Society shall be elected at the Annual General Meeting.
6.2 The chairperson shall act as returning officer for the elections. Where the chairperson intends to be a candidate in any election, a returning officer, who is not a candidate in any election, shall be appointed by the committee.
6.3 All members of the Society shall be eligible for election to the committee.
6.4 Candidates for each position on the committee of the Society must be proposed and seconded by members of the Society at the A.G.M.
6.5 All members of the Society shall be entitled to vote in the election of the committee.
6.6 The election of members of the committee shall take place by secret ballot at the A.G.M. Where the votes obtained by any candidate exceed the votes obtained by any other candidate for that position, he/she shall be deemed elected to that position.

Article 7 Resignations from the Committee
7.1 The resignation of any member of the committee shall be instituted by a letter of resignation to the Secretary of the Society. In the case of the resignation of the Secretary, resignation may be instituted by a letter of resignation to the Chairperson.

Article 8 Management of Finance
8.1 The finances of the Society shall be managed by the Chairperson and Treasurer of the Society.
8.2 No member of the committee of the Society shall receive remuneration from the Society, or use their office for personal financial gain.

Article 9 Amendments to the Constitution
9.1 Amendments to this constitution may be made at an Annual General Meeting or an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Society.
9.2 Such amendments to this constitution as may be approved by an Annual General Meeting or an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Society shall require the formal approval of the community to take effect in the form of a vote.

Article 10 Dissolution of the Society
10.1 The Society may be dissolved by a [two-thirds] majority vote of its membership at a General Meeting. The Society shall fall into abeyance should it fail to validly elect a committee for [two] successive years.
10.2 On dissolution of the Society, its assets shall become the property of INSERT CHARITY OREGANISATION

Orim

I think it's a good idea to move to a more formal organisation.

However would people accept this? In theory this committee would be in charge of how things are run. Thus far we have had votes on pretty much everything that is changing or things that people aren't happy about. Would the community be willing to give up this "power"?
I am not saying that the committee would become all-powerful and have no more votes but it's something to keep in mind.

As the community grows it may be that the vote on boards will no longer be representative of the community wishes. This is why the committee would need to have absolute power. They will be voted in annually(?) and will represent the wishes of those that vote.

Will the committee need to have face to face meetings or will internetz discussions be acceptable?
The internetz is more convenient and makes it more viable for those that live outside Dublin to become officers.
Face to face meetings on the other hand seem to be more productive. It seems to me that it's easier to get people to decide on things and make their feelings known when in a face to face to situation.

Just wanted to play devils advocate and get some discussion points out there.

Sisko

Yeah I'm very much on the same page as Dan is. I just wanna note I only read Ayjays 2nd post after I made my one.

My position is basically that of little experience so I can't necessarily agree or disagree with anything currently.
There....... there just needs to be a lot of discussion on this before decisions are made basically.

All I know is, I'm all for this community, and I see myself as a full time member of it and I only want the best for it. I like how pretty much all of our decisions have been made by the community itself.

Anyway I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat as me right now, just not 100% sure what their position is while at the same time wanting whats best for the community , otherwise this thread, as important as it is, would be a few pages long by now.

A part of me knows we have to look at things the way ayjay is suggesting, I think its just the other part of me still wants to hold on to the 'innocence' we have/had...

Or something ..

ayjayirl

I hear where ye are coming from. I only suggested it as a mechanism for growing the community. With money involved I have learned that something formal (even loosely) helps with visibility for all and allows for transparency. Obviously most of us know Azza for example, and dont have an issue with him holdin onto the money and trusting him with it. (Just let it be known that I do think he has the communities bet interest at heart and I am merely using hm as an example), but the issue becomes more evident for new people wanting to join and come along and part with their hard earned cash. If they see a committee that is elected in and everyone can join the community and get involved, then it is far more likely that it is something they would get involved in without having to know Azza. This is why all clubs and societies from schools and college level up to GAA and golf clubs all operate a constitution and form a committee to administer it

If most want to not go with this idea, then no probs, I just think that to attract interest and to maybe even grow our own Irish Evo, then it would be something we would have to do....

Sisko

I certainly don't think your wrong and indeed, in terms of innocence, when I 1st heard we were generating money from events beyond what was needed to pay for the rental and prize money , I knew we had..... entered a new stage/ gone to the next level, ... if you will.


We just need to discuss it , everyone needs to chime in with their views on this important topic. So we end up with a plan that everyone's happy with.

Orim

Another discussion point : What does one have to do to be considered eligible for the committee? Would someone have to be nominated? Can you put yourself forward?

ayjayirl

I would say that someone would have to be nominated for a role and then an election takes place. I'd say that you couldn't nominate yourself and that you would need 2 nominations. But this is just one way.

You could also create a poll for those who would be interested to put their name forward and everyone votes on each role?!

Orim

Okay so in IRC today the idea came up to do some kind of big event with tournaments for a couple of games. I was going to throw up a thread as to try and do a big event we would need to get it organised soon. However instead of doing that I went out. I was walking along in the outside and I realized that we don't have the facilities or the organisation to run a big efficient tournament.

Let's face it the XGC, while it has been great so far, has run it's course. At the very least it's no longer suitable for tournaments. There is a number of reasons for this.

1) The TVs. There is lag on pretty much all tvs and we are having times at the tournaments when there is a couple of matches waiting to be played because people are waiting to get on a particular xbox for the telly or they want to play on paystation because the tellys are better.

2) The size. It's too damn small. This causes all sorts of problems. It's tough to see. I reckon it's tough on players in the final rounds when you've got 30 - 40 standing about 2 inches away from you. This is also the reason that there is so little crowd reaction at the tournaments. It's hard to get hype when you're closer to the screen than the players.

We need a better, more spacious venue. In order to do this we will need to provide monitors and consoles. At the very least we will need half a dozen consoles with monitors and maybe a couple of Mad Catz TEs (I do mean two, so we would also be able to provide for players in case of any issues. The TEs because I would class them as a standard quality stick that no one could complain about using). This would need some serious investment and I for one wouldn't feel comfortable with that kind of money going around without us having some decent organisation.

We need to start planning things. Good long term plans. At the moment we're doing things on the cuff, as they come up or as someone takes it upon themselves to do things. If we want to run an Irish Evo then we need planning and organising. This needs something with central with a small number. The way it is even small decisions are taking very longer then they should as we are trying to accomodate everyone and the discussions drag on.

Sorry for the rambling but I wanted to get it out there. As you can see I'm for organising and I have some thoughts on how it should be done but I'll post them later.

Doctor DooM

Right, finally got a minute when I am not totally exhausted.

At the moment we have alot of people doing alot of work for the scene. It's good work, but it's totally haphazard.


For example, I have no idea how to edit video. I am learning on the fly. There's plenty I can do which I would be much better spending my time on (talking to the cons, for example, modding the forum here).

Simply, we need to be working on the stuff that we're skilled at. Some guiding group to divvy up the work might be a very good thing.

Secondly, if we're going to be using money to buy equipment etc, we need some kind of accountability and responsibility. Not because the people involved are not accountable or responsible, but simply because someday someone is going to come along and make accusations. We need to be protected.

Third, we need organisation for decision making. We need points of contact for people who want to discuss stuff. We need to be able to move quickly and decisively. I have had a couple of people sent my way as someone who represents fighting games in Ireland. I've no weight to back that up but a modship on a forum! But this is all we've got right now.

If we have organisation and a proven track record for organising events it might make sponsorship etc much easier to get.

I think AJ's model above would be good for that. We need to make sure the right people are in the right roles. We need to do this to get any further than we are right now, and if we wait too long we might lose momentuum, which none of us want.


Furthermore, I agree with Orim, XGC will soon be simply too small for what we want to do. We need to start looking to alternatives.


Also, I'd like to meet this Guile in Dublin, as I am in Kildare. Just putting that out there.

D4RK ONION

Ok then. so we all agree that we need to get SOME sort of organisation together, even if it's not as thorough as what Ayjay laid out (maybe it would be). We can work on other stuff from there.

So, let's get that out of the way first. Just get it done, sooner or later, rather than, as DooM said taking forever to get things done. What positions should we set up? Personally I agree with what Ayjay has proposed.

4.4 The Chairperson
The Chairperson shall have overall responsibility for the affairs of the Society. He/She shall chair all meetings of the Society, save where decided otherwise by the committee or where otherwise provided for in this constitution.

4.5 Vice-Chairperson
The Vice-Chairperson shall assume the duties of the Chairperson should the Chairperson be absent or unable to fulfill his/her duties.

4.6 Treasurer
The Treasurer will manage the financial affairs of the Society, in consultation with the other committee members. He/She will maintain the financial records of the Society. He/She will prepare and present to the Society the end of year accounts and treasurers report for the Society.

4.8 Secretary
The Secretary shall keep the non-financial records of the Society, including the official membership list, and manage the correspondence of the Society and submitting the end of year report.

4.9 Public Relations Officer
The Public Relations Officer shall be responsible for advertising the meetings and events of the Society.

4.10 Events Officer
The Events Officer shall be responsible for the organisation and running of official events with consultation with the other officers

I think this is a nice concise list, which already has a few of it's positions nailed down. For instance, Azza already does a fantastic job of near single handedly running the infernos, so he might be able to do Events officer. Is there anyone who DISAGREES with such a list? Or are there any positions that should be added or taken away?

Doctor DooM

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Ok then. so we all agree that we need to get SOME sort of organisation together, even if it's not as thorough as what Ayjay laid out (maybe it would be). We can work on other stuff from there.

So, let's get that out of the way first. Just get it done, sooner or later, rather than, as DooM said taking forever to get things done. What positions should we set up? Personally I agree with what Ayjay has proposed.



I think this is a nice concise list, which already has a few of it's positions nailed down. For instance, Azza already does a fantastic job of near single handedly running the infernos, so he might be able to do Events officer. Is there anyone who DISAGREES with such a list? Or are there any positions that should be added or taken away?

I think it covers it nicely.

ayjayirl

I think it would be hugely beneficial to get more people weighing in on the matter as well. I think the more active involvement in its inception, the happier everyone will be and the more transparent the process and structure becomes as it must be explicitly realised.

So come, one come all. Throw your 2 cents in. Its all going to a good cause




P.S.
I am not happy that RYU's dp now trades in more situations :mad:
(thats all I have to say about SSF4 for now)

Ramza

Doctor DooM wrote: »

For example, I have no idea how to edit video. I am learning on the fly. There's plenty I can do which I would be much better spending my time on (talking to the cons, for example, modding the forum here)

What kind of editing would you be talking about? I'm alright at editing video, would be glad to help if ye have other stuff to do

Also why in the **** are you guys talking bout an organisation and posting organisational structures/business terms?

You're thinking way too much

D4RK ONION

Because if we want to truly expand the scene, that is the best avenue to go down. It'll help us get stuff done faster.

Doctor DooM

Ramza wrote: »

What kind of editing would you be talking about? I'm alright at editing video, would be glad to help if ye have other stuff to do

Also why in the **** are you guys talking bout an organisation and posting organisational structures/business terms?

You're thinking way too much

It's just simple stuff, trying to get the best out of the footage from the tournaments we go to.

I get loads of offers to help but usually I end up wandering off on my own and realise I have no way of getting 3 gb of video footage to someone else.

As to the organisation- I am starting to get a bit nervous with the likes of money floating around around and overtures from journalists WITHOUT having some form of organisation, personally. I think some form of organisation is the next step forward. It doesn't need to be super srs bzns. It DOES need to be a united front when someone comes along and says "hi guys, who do I talk to about organising a tournament/ advertising my venue" (for example, both of these have happened to me more than once). We're saving money to buy equipment. Who will own that? No one person really should.

Jim

I've been thinking about this quite a lot since it was first brought up. Initially I thought it was a good idea, but had some concerns. My concerns are still there now, but additionally, I think the idea might be a little...unnecessary.

We are a community, whom at the moment does everything ourselves with no real organisation. We meet up for casuals just for fun and everyone chips in. Then further on if someone wants to organise a tourney? Awesome, organise it. If they need help then a lot of people are willing to pitch in. We need someone to mod the forums? We got that. I'll do the videos and put them up on youtube. Awesome stuff. etc etc. That's how things have been done.

Now, so far, there is nothing negative about this, it all works very well imo. So, what would be the need in having an organisation or society who would essentially oversee the goings on of the community. I mean, the chairperson, in reality what would he do? Decide what exactly? Events officer? Ok, we will have X amount of tournaments per month. Can he then tell someone else who wants to run a tourny that they can't (obviously they wouldn't). So if that officer doesn't have the "power" to stop people running stuff, then what is their function? To make sure tournys in general are organised? Atm Azza does Inferno, mr_kyle runs DS etc, so why change that? Works well as it is. Sure we could do with one more tournament in Dub (a 2v2 for instance), but we just need someone to take up the responsibility and do it.

If the purpose of the committee is to give people responsibilities so that more will get done, I don't really see that happening. The way things have worked so far is someone takes it upon themselves to do something, I don't see how giving people titles will get more done. The website for example. PPC asked a bunch of people if they'd be interested in doing something with the site, I said sure. Then did nothing for months until I got off my ass one day and started it. If PPC had said originally "Who wants to be the official society website guy?" I would have said no way. Although I am more than happy to do the site now. Having that "title" would make people expect something of me, I don't really want that heh.

Now, money is a big part in this. But I think Dreddy(?) has the money at the moment, and we're all pretty happy with that, and we're all in agreement on what we're getting from the money. I don't see why one person should have the final say in this.

Why do we need "members" if they're only function is to elect people to the above positions.

The reason this kind of structure is necessary in clubs and socs etc is because they are usually a small core group of people organising a society to serve its members. We are a large diverse community who serve ourselves. Things get done and we don't need a core official group to make decisions for us. I really don't see any issues we currently have that will be solves by having a committee.

Now, mentioned a few times has been XGC and how its basically ****. I agree totally. There is no real alternative either. The next step? Get somewhere ourselves. Hire out a building or a room somewhere and get the gear ourselves etc etc. Now, this is something which DOES require very strict organisation and a committee similar to the ones described above. But that is an individual case. If this were to happen then it would happen by (for example) 5 of us getting together and saying "Lets do this" and those 5 taking it upon themselves to get it organised, so they would obviously need organisation amongst themselves. And although they would essentially be running this venue, they wouldn't be running the community. They would be totally separate things.

I'm not trying to shoot this idea down, just voicing my concerns. Fair play to those who are taking it upon themselves to try and sort it out in the first place (that's what the community is all about!)

Jim

Also, I will totally edit and upload any tourney vids if you don't have the time Doom.

K.O.Kiki

I can't really see any need for more than Treasurer (holds money) and a committee to decide what to do with said money.

Orim

Great points Jim and you have articulated my own concerns about the venture. This why we need dicussion on this issue rather then jumping forward into.

I was going to multi-quote but I think that end too huge so I'l just make my own points.

I agree with you about the officers. I think the community taking it upon themselves to do everything is fantastic and removes the pressure from anyone that wants to do anything. However my problem would be things getting done with no planning. We don't need to have officers. We could simply have a meeting once a month to try discuss and organise what we are going to do in the future.

This also runs in Dooms point of not having authority to deal with cons or others from outside the community. I would think that any up-standing member of our community would have the authority to deal with anyone. For example, I got in touch with the Respawn Lan guys about the price. I don't see why this would be an issue. However at the same time it would nice if we had a definite person that we could direct people to and he could be our point of contact with the outside world.

With the planning meetings you could throw up a thread saying we would like to do x, y and z. Then people could take tasks on themselves as they wish to and feel they are able to complete them.

The money is not just an issue in accountability. It's an issue with getting it. It's been mentioned for weeks and has received "mumbling" support but it's still not standard practise and has not received any real debate from those that seem to have issues with it. This for me is the reason we need some kind of organisation behind us is to simple get a proper discussion of matters and get things decided and set in stone. If the "pot" system had been fully implemented when it was first brought up then we would probably have a hauppage or similar by now.

Tournaments are fine at the moment. But what if we want to try and run something bigger in the future? Multi games, proper advertising etc
This is something that would also need proper organisation. Maybe another committee for this? Maybe the same committee as runs our venue (which I would assume we would have by then). I don't know where I'm going with this point but I'm going to leave it up as I think it's valid towards something.

I think my main point is that we need some organisation but it doesn't have to be the five officers laid out by ayjay and they don't need to be in charge of and doing everything.

Doctor DooM

Orim wrote: »

1) I agree with you about the officers. I think the community taking it upon themselves to do everything is fantastic and removes the pressure from anyone that wants to do anything. However my problem would be things getting done with no planning. We don't need to have officers. We could simply have a meeting once a month to try discuss and organise what we are going to do in the future.

2) This also runs in Dooms point of not having authority to deal with cons or others from outside the community. I would think that any up-standing member of our community would have the authority to deal with anyone. For example, I got in touch with the Respawn Lan guys about the price. I don't see why this would be an issue. However at the same time it would nice if we had a definite person that we could direct people to and he could be our point of contact with the outside world.

On point 1:

We want to avoid replication of work, we don't want people wasting their time. I don't think think a commitee is going to sit there handing out orders but as you said they'd be good to facilitate meetings or whatever where we can try and get **** done.

Last year on boards, there was an attempt to write a christmas single. Despite a huge number of volunteers, nothing happened.

This was because despite there being loads of willing musicians offering to help.

There was no clear voice and no one making decisions so it all fell apart before it got anywhere.

It took about 6 months for someone to man up and look after SF.ie despite me repeatedly saying I couldn't do it and asking for help here.


How many times have I read someone asking for a second camera to be brought to the tournaments to record player reactions.

Stuff is getting done but it's getting done really slowly.

On point 2), of course I'd trust plenty of people here to do right by us in contacting the outside world. But it still doesn't change the fact of how much better it'd appear to the outside world if someone were able to go, "Hi, I am the man to come to about this."

It just needs to be a kernel of people that tries to get stuff done, is all.

Jim

Orim wrote: »

Tournaments are fine at the moment. But what if we want to try and run something bigger in the future? Multi games, proper advertising etc
This is something that would also need proper organisation. Maybe another committee for this? Maybe the same committee as runs our venue (which I would assume we would have by then). I don't know where I'm going with this point but I'm going to leave it up as I think it's valid towards something.

Yea, this is kinda what I was trying to say. If we wanted to run something big, as you were saying, its a matter of "I was thinking of doing this" and 4 other lads saying "I'll help" etc, then ye all get together and sort out the event and run it how ye want.

Orim

Jim wrote: »

Yea, this is kinda what I was trying to say. If we wanted to run something big, as you were saying, its a matter of "I was thinking of doing this" and 4 other lads saying "I'll help" etc, then ye all get together and sort out the event and run it how ye want.

I think the point I was trying to make, is that this is how things are running at the moment but everything goes that little bit slower because it's all about waiting for people to do things. Also I was trying to point out that having committees for various things is just a slower road to having an overall committee.

I'd also like to point that up until now we've had the mighty juggarnaut that is SFIV behind us. Super is going to reinvigorate that to a degree but after this we will lose momentum. Up until now we have grown based on that momentum but after this we will have to fight to continue to grow. Everything we've done lately is all geared towards growth I know but it's a point I want people to consider.

Jim

For sure I understand things are done slowly, but I still don't see how this would make things faster. If say we did have a committee, and they said "We need a website...ok, let's get someone who will do it, Jim seemed kinda interested....Hey Jim, we would like you to do the website" As I said, I would have declined (due to my own personal nature of being generally **** at getting things done). Any more volunteers? I don't see how having a committee will get more people to volunteer to do stuff. This is just an example.

In terms of making ourselves more "official" to the outside world...meh. This is just a personal thing, but I really don't like coming across as an "official" organisation....if you know what I mean. How would this benefit us with regard to the outside world? This isn't a company we're running, its just a community. If we were looking for sponsorship etc all it takes is someone taking it upon themselves to email places and show them how many people we have and how big we are. Thats all we need to be taken seriously.

If people are interested they will do the jobs, I don't see how a title will encourage them.

All we need for things to get done quicker is for people to be more enthusiastic about doing and voice their opinions and ideas a bit louder (in a positive way). People shouldn't need a committee or society (whatever you want to call it) to do this.

D4RK ONION

Doctor DooM wrote: »

On point 2), of course I'd trust plenty of people here to do right by us in contacting the outside world. But it still doesn't change the fact of how much better it'd appear to the outside world if someone were able to go, "Hi, I am the man to come to about this."

It just needs to be a kernel of people that tries to get stuff done, is all.

To back this point up, I present exhibit A




Rather than being able to say, oh yeah A, B or C deals with that, let me get you his Email address, we are instead directing a journalist to boards.ie, something which is already very much frowned upon.

Those arguing against the many positions must at least see the benefit of having a PR guy. As it stands, I think Chunkis or DooM would be our men for this

Jim

The issue at that I didn't have a contact email on the site. If I did, and he emailed me with whatever the proposal is, I would deal with it and let you guys know about it etc.

Also, don't see why directing a journalist to our forum on boards.ie is frowned upon? This is where our community is for the most part.

D4RK ONION

I mean journeys on boards.ie are generally frowned upon. Of course the exception is made in this forum. I'm simply saying that I think one guy for PR would help.

Owwmykneecap

I Agree with pretty much everything jim said

If someone wants to do an event, they dont need our permission. Say Azza decided to put on an event in a pub in june. It's up to him and anyone he asks to help to sort it out.
Then the community, as individuals, to decide whether it's for them or not.

I suppose i dont like the idea of people running the community and then people not wanting to take inititive.
You can run events and websites but i dont think anyone should "run" the community.

Also if people are getting contacts, then your probably qualified enough to answer them, as you've already done something to get them.

Doctor DooM

People don't need anyone's permission to do anything.


That doesn't help, however, when something isn't getting done.

Sagat06

Good post Jim I agree with most of what you said, this community has built up from peoples own enthusiasm and abilities. From day one people have been free and available with their own time and effort to get things done. And the fear from the outset is that the community side could be lost or diluted somehow.

But I think the concept of this committee is a good one. I would see it as a means to support and compliment the community. The way I'd see it is the committee would not be restrictive to anything anyone wants to do, but would consist of several members with ever increasing experience in particular areas like creating exposure, setting up tournaments etc. Who would then obviously lend this experience as they could whens its needed.

Like Doom has spoken about I think having someone you can direct things to helps aswell. Pointing people to a forum who have specific requests, like that journo, might be offputting.

As Jim mentioned also, money is an important factor in this. One point I would add to that is, we know and trust Dreddy but can we expect new people to?? probably, but I just think it needs to be asked. Also ownership, what if there is a falling out - who owns what??

Dreddybajs

I agree with sagat, as the person handling the money atm I'd quite like there to be some sort of recorded consensus that everyone is alright with that.

Jim

Just in case people thought otherwise, I'm wholly against the idea, and I hope I don't come across as being negative just for the sake of it, I'm just voicing my opinions and concerns. If you guys decide to go ahead with this (or something like this, whatever form it takes) I'll totally back it.

Sisko

This is all very interesting and important stuff.

The community really is one that is made up of people with different talents and ability's and experience in different areas. From the start I've always stepped back and looked on it as a whole entity and seeing the different elements individuals bring to it that alter and enhance this entity.

Or in other words, as the Emperor said 'I have foreseen it'.

From the 1st post I made in the thread request forum I had envisioned what could come from it if it got approved and things have pretty much panned out exactly as I had predicted. I had a lot of faith that things would go this way and this (plus me being a stubborn moany bastard) is why I kept up the fight to get this for so long.

But I didn't just pull this 'predication' from my arse! T'was cause I had already been chatting away to irish fighting game fans and had spotted certain people that would indeed bring the needed elements to the fold, we just needed a forum to allow it all to blossom. If the people I had met were all just incompetent wasters I wouldnt have fought nearly as much. Theres no point planting a seed with out water earth or sunlight.

So it was all so obvious to me things would succeed, thats why i was so livid at the nay sayers.

Its the same now with 20x the amount of important 'elements/community members' then back at the begining. Some people probably don't even know that they bring any elements to the scene.

Theres so much I want to do but this year in college has been a hard one for me and I've already spend too much time with all this, so I've had to hold off as much as it pains me.

When PPC got in contact with me about sf.ie I knew I just wouldnt be able to do it justice with college and everything, but I also knew who would. I wrote a long reply recommending Barry and Dan and then instantly got on steam and got talking to barry about it. Who accepted the role right away. I knew Barry would do a good job once he got the ball rolling on it, and in the end I was right... again



I know my place in this community, I know what I can do and what I don't have the experience of doing. When I saw the word committee , I really just thought it was going to be a list of those willing to dedicate their free time to improving the community and not just playing the game , in other words a larger list then we see there with us given kinda title rolls.

Sure I can help guide people along or manipulate some aspects of things from the shadows or bitch in a forum still people get sick of me and start to listen But I'm no tourney organiser. I'm no businessman or financial manager.

I've a passion and a lot of experience in video editing and effects and thus I really wanna make a push for high quality professional tournament footage this summer. I've not been able to get that due to college and lack of money over the past few months but things will change soon enough in terms of free time anyway I also really wanna push the community out there and get it as big as possible and as well known as possible and get as many new irish players in here as we can.

This was where I was coming from when I 'volunteered' for being in this 'committee'. When I saw the later posts that elborated on the idea I'm was certianly in the same mindset as jim and dan as I've already stated.

But thats not to say I disagree with Doom either, some very valid points all around.

Also the prospect of us setting up our own venue is something I've had in the back of my mind, but its just a dream obviously, an interesting one none the less (going into buisness with gamenash or something to set up a fighting game centre in Dublin?:eek: )


Its good that we're talking.

Sisko

Jim wrote: »

Just in case people thought otherwise, I'm wholly against the idea, and I hope I don't come across as being negative just for the sake of it, I'm just voicing my opinions and concerns. If you guys decide to go ahead with this (or something like this, whatever form it takes) I'll totally back it.

I think something needs to be done but I think the current layout or plan needs altering before I'm happy/comfortable with it myself.


However I personally don't have the experience or knowledge to come up with better/different one off the top of my head. Thus I'm hoping for more of a collection of ideas from the community that ultimately forms a gameplan we're all comfortable and happy with.

Kirby

In my opinion we don't need a plan or layout. We don't need to be formal.

I agree with Jim. Essentially, we are just a bunch of lads who enjoy fighting games and we should act as such. The community will grow because other people who like fighting games will find us if they want to bad enough. Google and word of mouth. We have a website too, thats good.

The most complex thing we have to deal with is who does the draw for the tourney and if we should use the surplus for a camera. A Comittee for something as relaxed as this seems overkill. As long as most of us agree we will be fine. And most of us don't have an issue forwarding an opinion.

Discussion is good though. I'm glad this thread is here.

Doctor DooM

Kirby wrote: »

The community will grow because other people who like fighting games will find us if they want to bad enough.

Surely it's only logical to make it as easy as possible for people to find us and work with us.


Once again, some form of committee not to run everything, but to look after the stuff that no one wants to do, some form of unified voice to people who want to "talk to the community", etc.

It shouldn't even effect people who just want to play the games, but it should be there in the background, type of thing.