Catholics are the majority in four counties of Northern Ireland

paky

In Counties Derry, Tyrone, Armagh and Fermanagh Catholics make up the majority of the population. I'm assuming Nationalists are also the majority in these counties. This is news to me. How does Britain continue to hold onto Northern Ireland if Unionists only make up the majority in two counties?

trapsagenius

paky wrote: »

In Counties Derry, Tyrone, Armagh and Fermanagh Catholics make up the majority of the population. I'm assuming Nationalists are also the majority in these counties. This is news to me. How does Britain continue to hold onto Northern Ireland if Unionists only make up the majority in two counties?

What's your source?

paky

Check the demographics on this wiki link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Tyrone

silverharp

And you think they would all vote to join the South?

paky

No I just think its an interesting fact.

trapsagenius

paky wrote: »

Check the demographics on this wiki link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Tyrone

Hmmm..If that's true it is very interesting..Maybe unionists outnumber nationalists in the entire population across the 6 counties, but I won't know for sure until someone puts up a link..I'm open to correction here obviously.

getz

just what makes you think that most northern irish catholics wish to join the republic ?if it was so why dont they all take out irish republican passports ?

fontanalis

That's because those protestants use condoms.
Seriously, didn't Tyrone and fermanagh always have a majority.

paky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_and_politics_of_Northern_Ireland

See voting patterns 2005.

Maybe this is why Sinn Fein want a referendum on NI

baalthor

I read somewhere that the majority of Northern Catholics live in the Belfast area.

getz

i can see this thread going to ,if your catholic you should live in the irish republic and if your jewish you should live in israel

paky

Maybe they should redraw the borders of Northern Ireland and include Counties Derry, Armagh, Fermanagh and Tyrone in the Republic.

mike65

Maybe they shouldn't.

catbear

With NAMA to pay for, I can't see a big rush. Swop your NHS for irish healthcare, nah.
A political culture where MPs resign without protest over expenses irregularities versus the John O'Donahue style hissy fits; he's still a TD.
A legal system that brings Brendan Smith to trial versus the southern style of capping the liabilities of the Church with taxpayer cash.

What are the benefits for counties to join the south;
rear and front license plates the same colour perhaps?

Actually, faced with years of deflation ahead, we may be better off defaulting and rejoining sterling.

paky

Your right. If Northern Ireland was administered by Dublin it would go down the toilet like the rest of the country. Northern Ireland is better off in the UK, the standard of living here is far better than the south and it doesnt have a major immigration problem like the south.

getz

they say the biggest employer in the north is the NHS,a lot of jobs would be lost

mike65

Excellent, thats that sort then.

PomBear

paky wrote: »

Your right. If Northern Ireland was administered by Dublin it would go down the toilet like the rest of the country. Northern Ireland is better off in the UK, the standard of living here is far better than the south and it doesnt have a major immigration problem like the south.

Have you ever visited the UK?

Hagar

paky wrote: »

How does Britain continue to hold onto Northern Ireland if Unionists only make up the majority in two counties?

Gerrymandering, another long time traditional route.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Protestants makeup the majority in the two most populist counties:Antrim/Down.(they have Belfast in them)

Balymena,Ballymoney, Coleraine etc are all largely Protestant. Actually Coleraine is in Derry but very close to Antrim border

Denerick

If anyone is serious about re-unification, they need to get on top of timing. Re-unification right now would be a complete disaster, we wouldn't be able to cope economically.

murpho999

paky wrote: »

Your right. If Northern Ireland was administered by Dublin it would go down the toilet like the rest of the country. Northern Ireland is better off in the UK, the standard of living here is far better than the south and it doesnt have a major immigration problem like the south.

PomBear wrote: »

Have you ever visited the UK?

Seeing as the profile's location is given as Belfast maybe we should ask has Paky visited The Republic?

Think he could be trolling, can't take 'intelligent' comments from people serious if they can't tell the diifference between "'you're" and "your".

nordisk celt83

People are right to point out that religion and political ideology shouldnt be so naively lumped together.
The four counties listed have a combined population that is similar in size to County Down and smaller than County Antrim by itself.

paky wrote: »

UK, the standard of living here is far better than the south and it doesnt have a major immigration problem like the south.

Unfortunately, that just simply is not the case. The most recent United Nations Human Development Index (the only reputable source on this subject) ranks Ireland as having the 5th highest standard of living in the world (down from 4th) while the UK has around the 21st.
NI's GDP is also considerably lower than even the poorest regions of the Republic...

nordisk celt83

Denerick wrote: »

If anyone is serious about re-unification, they need to get on top of timing. Re-unification right now would be a complete disaster, we wouldn't be able to cope economically.

+1 to this. It'd be a complete disaster!

dsmythy

Not sure public worker Catholics would fancy being taken in either.

baalthor

baalthor wrote: »

I read somewhere that the majority of Northern Catholics live in the Belfast area.

Not true however, based on the data on this page

About 1 in 3 NI Catholics live in the Greater Belfast area or about 40% live East of the Bann.

What I probably read was that Belfast has the single largest concentration of Catholics.


Talking about re-partition:

Scenario 1:
Using the 11 proposed new council districts, if all the "green" districts plus districts 6 and 10 were transferred to the South then the South would gain an area that is 39% Protestant (338,915) and 58% Catholic (512,174).

The remaining "new NI" would be 66% Protestant (571,671) and 30% Catholic (257,409).

Scenario 2:
Re-partitioning closer to the OP's proposal of 4 counties I transferred all of district 10 except the current Limavady district to the North and transferred the current Banbridge district from district 6 to the North.

This would result in the area transferred to the South being "more Catholic": 64% Catholic(462,569) and 33% Protestant (242,785).

The percentages in the new NI area would be the same as in the first scenario: 66% Protestant(667,801) and 30% Catholic(307,014).


Under Scenario 1, 33% of the current NI Catholic populace would remain in NI while in Scenario 2 40% of NI Catholics would remain in the North.

Currently there are around 200,000 members of the main Protestant churches in the South so the transferred Catholic majority area of NI under either scenario would have a bigger Protestant population than the entire ROI.

Another consideration is that the Catholics transferred to the South in Scenario 1 currently have 30% political representation in NI while they would have 10% of the representation in the new ROI.


So, to summarise .....

"Can't we all just get along ?"

paky

murpho999 wrote: »

Seeing as the profile's location is given as Belfast maybe we should ask has Paky visited The Republic?

Think he could be trolling, can't take 'intelligent' comments from people serious if they can't tell the diifference between "'you're" and "your".

Do you honestly believe that correct spelling and placement of commas and quotation marks really mirror an individual's intelligence?

murpho999

paky wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that correct spelling and placement of commas and quotation marks really mirror an individual's intelligence?

Straying off topic, but don't have an issue with commas and quotation marks but can't take people seriously if they use 'your' instead of 'you're'.

Anyhow, I did find your point about standard of living differences between NI & ROI to be ridiculous and not based on any fact.

McNulty32

A sectarian headcount in the 6 counties should not be the basis for a United Ireland, who cares how many Protestants and Catholics live in the North, its about sovereignty and Irelands right to it being denied.

paky

murpho999 wrote: »

Straying off topic, but don't have an issue with commas and quotation marks but can't take people seriously if they use 'your' instead of 'you're'.

Anyhow, I did find your point about standard of living differences between NI & ROI to be ridiculous and not based on any fact.

Ridiculous? Why?

nordisk celt83

paky wrote: »

Ridiculous? Why?

Because there are a plethora of reliable statistics that can quantify that the Republic has substanially higher standards of living than the United Kingdom as a whole, let alone one of its poorest peripheral regions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-Life_Index

djpbarry

paky wrote: »

In Counties Derry, Tyrone, Armagh and Fermanagh Catholics make up the majority of the population. I'm assuming Nationalists are also the majority in these counties.

Why are you equating Catholic with Nationalist/Republican?

TOMASJ

djpbarry wrote: »

Why are you equating Catholic with Nationalist/Republican?

Or Protestants with Loyalist/Unionist,

paky

The index gathered for the second link was gathered in 2005. Are you aware that Ireland is experiencing its worst recession in history?

Unemployment in Ireland is around 12 percent.
Unemployment in NI is around 4.5 percent.

How is Irelands standard of living better than that of NI if twice the number of people are unemployed?

paky

djpbarry wrote: »

Why are you equating Catholic with Nationalist/Republican?

im assuming this is the case with the majority of Catholic voters

nordisk celt83

paky wrote: »

The index gathered for the second link was gathered in 2005. Are you aware that Ireland is experiencing its worst recession in history?

Unemployment in Ireland is around 12 percent.
Unemployment in NI is around 4.5 percent.

How is Irelands standard of living better than that of NI if twice the number of people are unemployed?

The first link is from late 2009. Ask the UN; I'm sure they know far more than you or me...

paky

nordisk celt83 wrote: »

The first link is from late 2009. Ask the UN; I'm sure they know far more than you or me...

The table shows the UKs economy as a whole. NIs economy is one of the best in the UK. It rates far better than mainland Britain. The table doesnt take this into account.

DoireNod

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Protestants makeup the majority in the two most populist counties:Antrim/Down.(they have Belfast in them)

This sums it up OP, it's simple really. Although I've heard comments about Belfast's growing nationalist population. A friend of mine studying in Belfast told me how a unionist official, rather snidely, branded Queen's University and Jordanstown as 'Republican dens'.

McNulty32 wrote: »

A sectarian headcount in the 6 counties should not be the basis for a United Ireland, who cares how many Protestants and Catholics live in the North, its about sovereignty and Irelands right to it being denied.

I agree, but the Good Friday Agreement basically insists on a 'sectarian headcount' deciding Irish independence.

bernardo mac

I wonder if this is a fact,does is mean that the majority of residents in Derry,Tyrone,Armagh and Fermanagh are personally happy?

paky

bernardo mac wrote: »

I wonder if this is a fact,does is mean that the majority of residents in Derry,Tyrone,Armagh and Fermanagh are personally happy?

The 2001 UK census says so.

TOMASJ

bernardo mac wrote: »

I wonder if this is a fact,does is mean that the majority of residents in Derry,Tyrone,Armagh and Fermanagh are personally happy?

They most likely are , and they will be even happier when Antrim and Down are in the same position.

DoireNod

bernardo mac wrote: »

I wonder if this is a fact,does is mean that the majority of residents in Derry,Tyrone,Armagh and Fermanagh are personally happy?

I think it is true, although I'm open to correction. I don't get what your point is though? It would help if you could elaborate upon it.

McNulty32

DoireNod wrote: »

This sums it up OP, it's simple really. Although I've heard comments about Belfast's growing nationalist population. A friend of mine studying in Belfast told me how a unionist official, rather snidely, branded Queen's University and Jordanstown as 'Republican dens'.



I agree, but the Good Friday Agreement basically insists on a 'sectarian headcount' deciding Irish independence.

To hell with the Good Friday Agreement, it has failed and miserably

paky

how has it failed?

dsmythy

People seem to completely ignore the fact that there are both non-Christians and atheists in Northern Ireland. How will they vote?

McNulty32 wrote: »

A sectarian headcount in the 6 counties should not be the basis for a United Ireland, who cares how many Protestants and Catholics live in the North, its about sovereignty and Irelands right to it being denied.

What right?

DoireNod

dsmythy wrote: »

People seem to completely ignore the fact that there are both non-Christians and atheists in Northern Ireland. How will they vote?

Eamonn McCann

bernardo mac

DoireNod wrote: »

I think it is true, although I'm open to correction. I don't get what your point is though? It would help if you could elaborate upon it.

I meant:"does it mean....are personally happy?" because I believe,from experience ,that belonging to a particular religion does not guarantee personal happiness or inner contentment especially if one is reared to believe one's religion from birth is the true path to a better spiritual self,a good community and society.North or South of the border we have witnessed in recent decades and beyond the tragic miseries of belonging to a righteous religion

paky

bernardo mac wrote: »

I meant:"does it mean....are personally happy?" because I believe,from experience ,that belonging to a particular religion does not guarantee personal happiness or inner contentment especially if one is reared to believe one's religion from birth is the true path to a better spiritual self,a good community and society.North or South of the border we have witnessed in recent decades and beyond the tragic miseries of belonging to a righteous religion

This is not a religious discussion.

bernardo mac

True,it is not a "religious discussion" but for many North and South religion and politics are connected and to some inseparable

Exile 1798

It has always been so.

When the Unionists wanted partition, they had the problem that they couldn't secure with a Unionist majority a single Irish Province – Ulster.

In fact there only existed strong Unionist majorities in two Irish Counties – Antrim and Down.

At this point in time it would have been advisable for them to accept reality, and reconcile themselves with the fact of Irish nationhood. They chose not to, with tragic consequences for them and all of the people on this Island.

This simple truth for some reason has never been a cause for introspection amongst any Unionist leader, journalist or prominent figure.

toomevara

Frankly in contemporary terms I don't see why this is politically relevant. How many of these people are nominally, culturqlly or indeed 'secular' (if you'll pardon the obvious contradiction) catholics? Is one's political affiliation dictated by one's faith in contemporary Ireland? I think not. I was born a southern catholic (though I left the church), but as a constitutional democrat I support the unionist position until the freely expressed democratic will of the people of the north changes.