Drunk Cycling

Bluefoam

Something that has come up on a UK forum: if you are caught by the Gardaí's intoxicated while in control of a pedal vehicle, are you liable to lose your drivers license?

blorg

Not in this jurisdiction AFAIK although it is an offence. I know it is the case in some European countries although how often it actually happens is another question.

Beasty

Definitely not in the UK either, although you can be charged over there with being "drunk in charge of a bicycle"

murrayp4

I think it has to be a mechanically propelled ve-hicle...

Piercemeear

Does the same breathalyzer level apply? i.e. is the alcohol limit the same as for a motorised vehicle?

Just curious as I'd never drive with even a pint, but I'd happily cycle with two. Cycling seems to have a sobering effect, generally, while driving makes one sleepy.

Has anyone been breathalysed cycling? You hear stories but I've never heard directly from anyone who was.

heebusjeebus

Happened to a friend of mine in college. The Gardai must have had nothing better to do as all they did was make him walk home with the bike as they followed behind him.

mcgratheoin

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Happened to a friend of mine in college. The Gardai must have had nothing better to do as all they did was make him walk home with the bike as they followed behind him.

Happened a mate of mine too. Made him walk and then circled around the block to make sure he hadn't hopped back on the bike as soon as they pulled away.

Lumen

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Happened to a friend of mine in college. The Gardai must have had nothing better to do as all they did was make him walk home with the bike as they followed behind him.

They were probably trying to save themselves the paperwork from a fatal RTA.

Saxobank

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Happened to a friend of mine in college. The Gardai must have had nothing better to do as all they did was make him walk home with the bike as they followed behind him.

You can be arrested and brought before the courts for it. As for that comment, have you seen what someone is like on a bike drunk? ....extremely dangerous to themselves and to traffic

Saxobank

Piercemeear wrote: »

Does the same breathalyzer level apply? i.e. is the alcohol limit the same as for a motorised vehicle?

Just curious as I'd never drive with even a pint, but I'd happily cycle with two. Cycling seems to have a sobering effect, generally, while driving makes one sleepy.

Has anyone been breathalysed cycling? You hear stories but I've never heard directly from anyone who was.

you dont get breathalised if your on a pedal cycle

MysticFred

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Gardai must have had nothing better to do as all they did was make him walk home with the bike as they followed behind him.

I'm not one to stand up for the cops but fair play to them for using common sense and giving him a warning.

If they didn't check afterwards to see that he walked then it would have been a waste of time to stop him in the first place.

Making him go to court (in the first instance) is a waste of court's time IMO. If he hoped back on the bike then that's a different matter.

brayblue24

Lumen wrote: »

They were probably trying to save themselves the paperwork from a fatal RTA.

That'd be about it alright

jwshooter

i was on the phone sunday going through a village ,i got the evil eye form a garda in a parked patrol car.

donal_mcg

Here in France they breathalyse you, if you're over you have a 90euro fine, a night in the cells and 2/3 points on your license. I know of 2 people in the last month who have been caught. The velib being introduced here 2 months ago prompted the police to step up targeting people.

p

In copenhagen, you'd be hard push to find a sober person on a bicycle past midnight

Though, quite a few of my friends have has accidents when drunk, thankfully nothing too serious as there's not many cars on the roads at that time.

blorg

Piercemeear wrote: »

Does the same breathalyzer level apply? i.e. is the alcohol limit the same as for a motorised vehicle?

No, the specific limits apply only to drivers of motorised vehicles. There is no specific limit specified for cycling other than you must not be drunk "to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle." In most cases this will be more drunk than would disqualify you from driving. I don't think there have been significant amendments to this in regard of cyclists:

Road Traffic Act 1961 wrote:

51.—(1) A person shall not, in a public place—

( a ) drive or attempt to drive, or be in charge of, animal-drawn vehicle, or

( b ) drive or attempt to drive a pedal cycle,

while he is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle.

Piercemeear

blorg wrote: »

No, the specific limits apply only to drivers of motorised vehicles. There is no specific limit specified for cycling other than you must not be drunk "to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle." In most cases this will be more drunk than would disqualify you from driving.

This is a revelation. I mean, I've always been vaguely apprehensive about cycling home after a pint or two, knowing that I felt perfectly sober but aware that I'd fail a breath test if it was administered.

morninwood

when i was young and stupid i used to cycle home from parties pretty drunk and got caught twice. after breathalyzing me the gardai put me and the bike in their car, drove me to the police station, called a doc in who took some blood as i was so much over the limit that it was already classed as a criminal offense and had to go to court.
i never held a drivers license in my life but have 14 penalty points in good old germany

loyatemu

that french law seems fairly unjust - penalising your driving license for a cycling offense. what about cyclists who don't drive - there's no equivalent punishment for them. You might as well give penalty points to drunk pedestrians too...

common sense approach here seems about right - if you're obviously drunk and unsteady on the bike, the guards should make you walk. If you're too drunk to walk, then a fine for being drunk and disorderly (or whatever the actual offence is...).

blorg

loyatemu wrote: »

that french law seems fairly unjust - penalising your driving license for a cycling offense. what about cyclists who don't drive - there's no equivalent punishment for them.

The points wait until you get a license and are then applied to it.

cdaly_

Road Traffic Act 1961 wrote:

51.—(1) A person shall not, in a public place—

while he is under the influence of...

Ah! So the ladies can do what they like then?...

munchkin_utd

in germany they are completely anal about drinking and cycling.

The fine can be a months wages if you are over i think 1.6 (milli jobbies?), plus points, or higher fine if you have no licence or a foreign one, but to be fair up to that you can drink cycle and are ok so long as there's no accident, where the normal 0.5 limit is used and THEN they throw the book at you!
The limit is quite high and a couple of litres in the beergarden and you'll still be grand to cycle home.
Then again, with the cycle lanes you only have lampposts and pedestrians to hit, whereas in ireland you are out on the road mixing it with cars trucks and jeeps.

Even drink-walking is prohibited if way way over the limit, as even though you are on foot, you are considered a "participant in traffic" (Verkehrsteilnehmer).
They have a certain limit that they consider as pure ossified, and you shouldnt be let out in public with that amount of drink in you basically! Taxi from door to door is ok though.

If you even speed in a speedboat the fekers will give you points on your driving licence.
Its more of a penalty to a rich hoor than a small fine so maybe not a bad thing.

mcgratheoin

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Even drink-walking is prohibited if way way over the limit, as even though you are on foot, you are considered a "participant in traffic" (Verkehrsteilnehmer).
They have a certain limit that they consider as pure ossified, and you shouldnt be let out in public with that amount of drink in you basically! Taxi from door to door is ok though.

I may have come up with a way to eliminate our national debt! One night handing out tickets in Temple bar and we're back in the black!

concussion

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Happened to a friend of mine in college. The Gardai must have had nothing better to do as all they did was make him walk home with the bike as they followed behind him.

If they took his pedals he'd have to walk and it would have saved them following him the whole way home

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

No, the specific limits apply only to drivers of motorised vehicles. There is no specific limit specified for cycling other than you must not be drunk "to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle." In most cases this will be more drunk than would disqualify you from driving. I don't think there have been significant amendments to this in regard of cyclists:

That's very interesting. I'd always assumed that the limits were the same for drivers and cyclists. So, no updates to drink-driving law as applied to cyclists since 1961?

tulachmhor

Ended up concussed in hospital with a split eyebrow one night while at this craic.
I said never again,but thats just crazy talk.
Haven't gotten as pissed when I know there's a wee bit of pedalling to be done thereafter.
As for the legal side of things.
I dont drive,so any repurcussions are utterly futile.
From an objective standpoint,drunken cycling is seriously stoopid,but its all about me,me,me,so I continue to be an idiot,but not as much of an eejit as I once was.
On the other hand,cycling under the influence of narcotics is where its at.
Just ask Floyd Landis and co.

tulachmhor

tulachmhor wrote: »

On the other hand,cycling under the influence of narcotics is where its at.
Just ask Floyd Landis and co.

Or Albert Hofmann.

tomasrojo

There is statistically a very strong link between serious injury and impairment and cycling while drunk. Not surprising really, but not every thing you'd expect to be true has strong statistical evidence. This does.

(Slightly off-topic maybe; I just happened to be reading about it recently.)

blorg

tomasrojo wrote: »

That's very interesting. I'd always assumed that the limits were the same for drivers and cyclists. So, no updates to drink-driving law as applied to cyclists since 1961?

I haven't trawled through the legislation looking for updates relating to cyclists but I do know that the specific limits, rules on use of breathalysers, etc. only apply to drivers of motorised vehicles. When these things were first introduced they were applied only to drivers of motors. Same deal with speed limits incidentally.

mgmt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkulQvz-efw

We live in a Nanny State.

G1S8

In Poland you gonna lose your driving licence for walking with bicycle while intoxicated and I know it may sound incredible but that's the thruth, that's the law. Few friend of mine lost their licence after like 3 beers when they were fine just worng place wrong time.

enas

mgmt wrote: »

We live in a Nanny State.

OMG :eek:, and those cyclists who cycle by the wet tram tracks (and they wear no helmet), that must be so dangerous! Hope they will outlaw that quickly!

jethrothe2nd

My brother spent the night in a cell after being arrested for cycling whilst under the influence. To be fair, if he hadn't got back on his bike after being told to walk, he would have been let go with warning. Don't think he has a driving license but I am pretty sure that didn't come into the equation at any point

72hundred

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

My brother spent the night in a cell after being arrested for cycling whilst under the influence. To be fair, if he hadn't got back on his bike after being told to walk, he would have been let go with warning. Don't think he has a driving license but I am pretty sure that didn't come into the equation at any point

He got a night in the cells for disobeying a Garda direction, is say the fact a bike was involved with it has zero importance.

superrdave

72hundred wrote: »

He got a night in the cells for disobeying a Garda direction, is say the fact a bike was involved with it has zero importance.

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

My brother spent the night in a cell after being arrested for cycling whilst under the influence. To be fair, if he hadn't got back on his bike after being told to walk, he would have been let go with warning. Don't think he has a driving license but I am pretty sure that didn't come into the equation at any point

Disobeying a garda direction is only an offence in quite specific circumstances. They have to say do as we say, or else it is an offence and we will arrest you. If they don't do that, even if they tell you to do something, they can't arrest you if you don't (unless of course what you are doing is in itself an offence.... like cycling while drunk).

Cycling under the influence is an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing to do.... especially as chances are it will be done at night, without lights, without a helmet, on footpaths, the wrong way down one way streets and without reflective clothing. Idiotic. Anyone who does it is a candidate for a Darwin award.

Doctor Bob

munchkin_utd wrote: »

in germany they are completely anal about drinking and cycling.

They have a certain limit that they consider as pure ossified, and you shouldnt be let out in public with that amount of drink in you basically!

Aah yes, the famed Irenküssengrenze.

***

Wasn't there talk earlier this year about a new blood alcohol limit for cycling? Or am I imagining it? If not, anyone got any further news?

tomasrojo

Two attempts to turn this into a helmet thread (one tongue in cheek, I think). Nobody taking the bait? Good.

Paul Kiernan

Slightly off-topic but brings back memories of an old friend of mine whose bike was stolen. He bitched about it for a week and then as he was going up Dawson Street on the upper deck of a bus, he spots what looks like his bike locked to a lamp-post. Jumps off, legs it back, and sure enough it's his bike, securely locked, with his lock. Slowly, slowly, it starts coming back, the lunchtime pints in the Stags Head, the holy hour lockdown, the numerous falls in rush hour Dawson Street, the kindly gent who insisted on paying for a taxi to take him home .............

Moflojo

superrdave wrote: »

Disobeying a garda direction is only an offence in quite specific circumstances. They have to say do as we say, or else it is an offence and we will arrest you. If they don't do that, even if they tell you to do something, they can't arrest you if you don't (unless of course what you are doing is in itself an offence.... like cycling while drunk).

For real? Like a Garda version of Simon Says?
With great power comes great responsibility...

ED E

Out of interest, is there a law against passengers? A gard got upset at me carrying a friend home on rear pegs one night.

tomasrojo

I have a faint recollection that a bicycle has to be of a design specific to carrying passengers if you wish to carry an adult passenger. If I had time I'd look it up. I think it was in one of the Road Traffic Acts.

tomasrojo

http://www.bikeforall.net/cyclingfaq.php?show=62#62

This is for the UK:

"What are the legal rules for carrying a passenger on a bike? My wife has a Ducth city bike (strong and heavy bike) which complies with all UK regulations and often carries our 10 year old daughter (with helmet) on the back as is (and has been for past 100yrs) the custom in The Netherlands and was stopped by a police officer claiming it is illegal to carry a passenger in UK? Is that correct and which law was she referring to? "

The rule is that any bicycle which carries a passenger must have been built with this in mind, or modified. So, for instance, a childseat is a 'modification'.

A Dutch bike with a standard rear rack is perfectly suitable for carrying a passenger but, strictly speaking, has not been modified for this purpose.

However, because of the long-standing common practice of carrying children (and adults) on the rear bicycle rack in the Netherlands, there is a strong case for arguing that a Dutch-style bike has been designed to carry passengers.

Stand your ground.

superrdave

Moflojo wrote: »

superrdave wrote: »

Disobeying a garda direction is only an offence in quite specific circumstances. They have to say do as we say, or else it is an offence and we will arrest you. If they don't do that, even if they tell you to do something, they can't arrest you if you don't (unless of course what you are doing is in itself an offence.... like cycling while drunk).

For real? Like a Garda version of Simon Says?
With great power comes great responsibility...

Yes. The power to move you on is (generally) a public order one and can only be exercised in specific circumstances:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0008.html#zza2y1994s8

Plus, they have to inform you it is an offence. See this case for example.

O Caoimh J. wrote:

It is clear that unless it can be shown that the accused was given the warning or knew that the failure to comply with the requirement would result in him committing a criminal offence, that the offence itself is not committed.

So, if they arrest you, they must first inform you, when asking you to move on, that they have a power to do so and that failure to comply with such a direction is an offence. It is only if you fail to comply with that direction that they can arrest you.

Of course, given that cycling drunk is an offence in and of itself, they can arrest you for that straight up.

mockler007

i ride with drink on me all the time,
locked drunk, weaving out of traffic,
doing stoppies down steps. giving the garda and taxi drivers the finger under my lycra
shuving peds out of me way, uppercutting them at the least expected
well im drunk, i have a right, or dont we, ehhhhhh yeh we do
i pay taxes,,, like hello

just ride her ,,, just once you dont get sick on her,

poochiem

mockler007 wrote: »

i ride with drink on me all the time,
locked drunk, weaving out of traffic,
doing stoppies down steps. giving the garda and taxi drivers the finger under my lycra
shuving peds out of me way, uppercutting them at the least expected
well im drunk, i have a right, or dont we, ehhhhhh yeh we do
i pay taxes,,, like hello

just ride her ,,, just once you dont get sick on her,

errr....

Beasty

poochiem wrote: »

errr....

You can rest assured that when Mockler refers to wearing lycra you can't believe anything else he is saying...

CramCycle

Don't worry, when I drink and cycle I ride on the pavement for my own safety and never turn on my lights so the Gardai won't be bothered by me, only fair.

dermo88

Got stopped in Malaysia once for it. Contacted the police officers superintendent, who happens to be a friend, while promising him (roughly translated from Malay)

"You push your luck, and you will so overtime in the backarse of Kelantan by payday"

All smiling, and while it was all in Malay.....no fear whatsoever. Meanwhile, the Super answers the phone.

"I have some rookie here barely out of training school stopping me for being drunk on the pushbike. Is it possible to sort it out please. I mean its hardly a Proton Saga here, in which case I'd expect the book thrown at me"

"Whats his badge number"

"C186A"

"Petaling Jaya"

"Yep"

"Oh they are just out collecting coffee money for the New Year, put me on to that bloody clown, will you"

"Now" (I said)....."Would you like to speak to Superintendent Rizwan"

Smiling.....the very same smile a shark gives to a fish....

"Ok...."

And all hell breaks loose.....the officer turns white, or at least....as white as a Malay can possibly get.

"I am sorry Mr Dermo"

"Thats good, now we have a tradition where I am from. Would you like to meet for a drink and a game of pool tomorrow, with the Super"

"Of course"

Perfect.....

I just love the third world......screw political correctness.

Cabaal

dermo88 wrote: »

Got stopped in Malaysia once for it. Contacted the police officers superintendent, who happens to be a friend, while promising him (roughly translated from Malay)

<SNIP>

I just love the third world......screw political correctness.

aww, nothing like a corrupt police force and double standards.
:rolleyes:

Course if this happened in Ireland people would complain about the Gardai being corrupt

Lumen

Cabaal wrote: »

Course if this happened in Ireland people would complain about the Gardai being corrupt

That's because we're "politically correct". :rolleyes:

Victor

The red bits refer to cyclists. These sections appear not to have come into effect yet.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0006.html#sec6

Road Traffic Act 2010, Section 6 wrote:

Prohibition on driving animal-drawn vehicle or pedal cycle while under influence of intoxicant.

6.— (1) A person shall not, in a public place—
(a) drive or attempt to drive, or be in charge of, an animal-drawn vehicle, or
(b) drive or attempt to drive a pedal cycle,

while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) commits an offence and—
(a) if the offence relates to an animal-drawn vehicle, he or she is liable on summary conviction—
(i) in the case of a first offence, to a fine not exceeding €3,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 1 month or to both, and
(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent offence, to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to both,

or

(b) if the offence relates to a pedal cycle, he or she is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €2,000.

(3) A person liable to be charged with an offence under this section shall not, by reference to the same occurrence, be liable to be charged under section 12 of the Licensing Act 1872 with the offence of being drunk while in charge, on a highway or other public place, of a carriage.

(4) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that a person is committing or has committed an offence under this section, he or she may arrest the person without warrant.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0080.html#sec80

Road Traffic Act 2010, Section 80 wrote:

Right to demand name and address, etc., of pedal cyclist.

80.— The following section is substituted for section 108 of the Principal Act:

“108.— A member of the Garda Síochána may demand of a person in charge of a pedal cycle whom the member suspects of having committed any crime or offence or of having been concerned or involved in a collision or other event in a public place causing injury to person or property, the name and address and date of birth of such person, and if such a person refuses or fails to give his or her name and address or date of birth or gives a name or address or date of birth which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, the member may take the cycle, by reasonable force if necessary, and retain it until such time as he or she is satisfied as to the identity of such person.”.