cycle lanes phoenix park

iercepa

was out this evening doing a few laps of the park, enjoying the sunshine. was on the cycle lane along the north road between ashtown gate and chesterfield avenue. i run and cycle a lot in the park so im used to people walking dogs, buggies, running 3 abreast etc on the cycle lane so i dont (generally) get angry or shout at people, most dont even realise its a cycle lane so whats the point, i normally just ease off and try to be ready for anything as i pass, call "bike on your right/left" if im approaching from behind.
anyhow, was going at a nice speed (for me) on the cycle lane and i see a guy jogging alongside a little girl on a bike (good for her) with a bike coming up behind them. im in as far to the left of the lane as i can be and he can see me coming. the kid is in right of the lane as i approach. ive stopped pedalling but still have a bit of speed and the guy just keeps coming straight at me, hit the brakes, come to a stop a couple of feet in front him. he starts swearing at me, what the f*ck are you doing etc. im a bit stunned so just point out thats it a cycle lane. he tells me (with more swearing) thats hes running with his little girl and i should have pulled out of his way. this would have involved either pulling in front of a child on a bike or taking my chances in the pretty rough ground off the lane. i compliment him on his use of language in front of his kid and i thought for a second he was going to have a swing at me. tell him im not going to stand here and argue with him and go to cycle around. he tells me to have some f*cking manners and we part ways....
im not hugely annoyed by this, more perplexed at his attitude. i wasnt going at a speed where if his kid had lost control of the bike and swerved that i couldnt have avoided her. all he had to do was step in behind or in front or to his right and all 3 of us could have carried on enjoying our evening but he had to make some kind of point that all cyclists are ignorant evildoers or something.
apologies for the rambling nature of this rant and if this has been done to death on this forum, just wanted to get it off my chest. anyone have similar experiences? any advice on a prepared argument to deal with this kind of selfrighteous muppet?
violence is never the answer, unless the question is "what is the expression of physical or verbal force against self or other"

Nietzschean

issues on the cycles lanes in the park have come up quite a bit, that still sounded a bit bizzare though. Maybe someone buzzed past a few minutes previously on a bike and had him all riled up?

Normal advice is of course never use the lanes in the park, perfectly good road [other than the huge potholes and craters]

tomasrojo

Sounds like a total over-reaction on his part, but as @Nietzschean said, use the road. I don't believe SI 273/1998 (or whatever it is) compels you to use the lanes in the park, as they're not Cycle Tracks. Even if it did, I wouldn't bother really.

Also, as a general rule, I think that when cycle facilities put you in close proximity to pedestrians, you have to go rather slowly, regardless of whether the cycle lane is clearly for cyclists. It's just the nature of poorly enforced segregation.

chakattack

On the + side, the talent in the park tonight was amazing. Some sort of running club training/fun run with lots of very cute fit girls in figure hugging attire

Made my training more enjoyable

Lumen

chakattack wrote: »

On the + side, the talent in the park tonight was amazing. Some sort of running club training/fun run with lots of very cute fit girls in figure hugging attire

Indeed, I almost crashed into an oncoming bike salmon whilst being distracted.

OP: if you don't want to use the road, just use the grass. It's not even wet at the moment.

iercepa

cheers, guess illl be sticking to the roads from now on
saw those girls too, lycra can be a beautiful thing:)

Bluefoam

Lumen wrote: »

OP: if you don't want to use the road, just use the grass. It's not even wet at the moment.

Why should cyclists be relegated to cycle in the undergrowth at the side of the road. They are not second class citizens...

Lumen

Bluefoam wrote: »

Why should cyclists be relegated to cycle in the undergrowth at the side of the road. They are not second class citizens...

Undergrowth? How tall are you? It's mown grass.

Bluefoam

Why should cyclists be relegated to cycle in mown grass.

ffs. There's a perfectly good paved road and a cyclepath

72hundred

iercepa wrote: »

was out this evening doing a few laps of the park, enjoying the sunshine. was on the cycle lane along the north road between ashtown gate and chesterfield avenue. i run and cycle a lot in the park so im used to people walking dogs, buggies, running 3 abreast etc on the cycle lane so i dont (generally) get angry or shout at people, most dont even realise its a cycle lane so whats the point, i normally just ease off and try to be ready for anything as i pass, call "bike on your right/left" if im approaching from behind.
anyhow, was going at a nice speed (for me) on the cycle lane and i see a guy jogging alongside a little girl on a bike (good for her) with a bike coming up behind them. im in as far to the left of the lane as i can be and he can see me coming. the kid is in right of the lane as i approach. ive stopped pedalling but still have a bit of speed and the guy just keeps coming straight at me, hit the brakes, come to a stop a couple of feet in front him. he starts swearing at me, what the f*ck are you doing etc. im a bit stunned so just point out thats it a cycle lane. he tells me (with more swearing) thats hes running with his little girl and i should have pulled out of his way. this would have involved either pulling in front of a child on a bike or taking my chances in the pretty rough ground off the lane. i compliment him on his use of language in front of his kid and i thought for a second he was going to have a swing at me. tell him im not going to stand here and argue with him and go to cycle around. he tells me to have some f*cking manners and we part ways....
im not hugely annoyed by this, more perplexed at his attitude. i wasnt going at a speed where if his kid had lost control of the bike and swerved that i couldnt have avoided her. all he had to do was step in behind or in front or to his right and all 3 of us could have carried on enjoying our evening but he had to make some kind of point that all cyclists are ignorant evildoers or something.
apologies for the rambling nature of this rant and if this has been done to death on this forum, just wanted to get it off my chest. anyone have similar experiences? any advice on a prepared argument to deal with this kind of selfrighteous muppet?
violence is never the answer, unless the question is "what is the expression of physical or verbal force against self or other"

If you feel you want to get in touch with those who put the cycle lane markings down; info@opw.ie

Lumen

Bluefoam wrote: »

Why should cyclists be relegated to cycle in mown grass.

ffs. There's a perfectly good paved road and a cyclepath

I'm not proposing that cyclists are relegated. I'm proposing that if you are cycling at speed towards one or a number of pedestrians/small children cycling/whatever, it is convenient, considerate and reasonable to give them a wide berth, and going on the grass is easy, safe and (god forbid) possibly even fun for any competent cyclist.

Your other choice is the road.

That's two good choices. Or you can shout at/argue with people. Good luck with that.

Bluefoam

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not proposing that cyclists are relegated. I'm proposing that if you are cycling at speed towards one or a number of pedestrians/small children cycling/whatever, it is convenient, considerate and reasonable to give them a wide berth, and going on the grass is easy, safe and (god forbid) possibly even fun for any competent cyclist.

Your other choice is the road.

That's two good choices. Or you can shout at/argue with people. Good luck with that.

Sorry Lumen, I cant agree with you here. The grass is not safe for many bikes, unless you have a mountain-bike or rotund hybrid. You could easily buckle a wheel in what looks like even mowed grass... Also, braking on grass is less effective without knobbly tyres/disk brakes.

Cyclists are expected to make too many allowances for other road users. I'm not saying they shouldn't be considerate, but they should not be expected to make allowances that can have negative consequences for them. All road users have equal rights & should act in a considerate way to each other.

Lumen

Bluefoam wrote: »

Sorry Lumen, I cant agree with you here. The grass is not safe for many bikes, unless you have a mountain-bike or rotund hybrid. You could easily buckle a wheel in what looks like even mowed grass...

Fair enough, we differ.

I do it every time I used the park, wet or dry, with 23mm slick race tyres @ 100psi. I also have the bike handling skills of a drunk chimp, as anyone who has witnessed me attempt cyclocross can testify.

DirkVoodoo

That is a bizarre encounter indeed and you are right in thinking he should have had a bit more control in front of his little girl. Some people are just jerks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoAiyUduyrY

(Best I could do, excuse the quality).

On my few encounters to the park I have used the road and got on fine.

Bambaata

I never use the cycle lanes up the main road of the phoenix park. Its far too dangerous and if i was to go at a pace at which i could react to every dog/runner/rollerblader i might as well not be training.

RacoonQueen

It's the same when running in the park/on the roads. People will come up two/three abreast taking up the whole path(even walking down the street actually) and not go into single file to allow you to pass even though they're the ones taking up the entire path. Just ignorance.

S. Goodspeed

The nice weather brings every clown in Dublin out to the park. The amount of learner drivers trying 3 point turns was unreal this evening.

Cycling on the road is really the only option if you are doing any sort of training. Unfortunately the new chesterfield roundabout is terrible for cycling around especially when you are trying to take a left down towards the OS as it is so narrow. Still is great for a quick auld spin though!

Micilin Muc

iercepa wrote: »

he starts swearing at me, what the f*ck are you doing etc. im a bit stunned so just point out thats it a cycle lane. he tells me (with more swearing) thats hes running with his little girl and i should have pulled out of his way. this would have involved either pulling in front of a child on a bike or taking my chances in the pretty rough ground off the lane. i compliment him on his use of language in front of his kid and i thought for a second he was going to have a swing at me. tell him im not going to stand here and argue with him and go to cycle around. he tells me to have some f*cking manners and we part ways ...

... anyone have similar experiences?

I experience people like this nearly every day on my commute in Dublin city centre.

I saw a pedestrian walk halfway across Aston Quay at the Halpenny Bridge with the traffic moving fairly quickly. A taxi driver slowed down and told him to wait for the pedestrian lights as he'll get himself killed. The pedestrian proceeded to call the taxi driver a fat f*ck.

Today I saw a cyclist on his mobile going up Dame Street from Trinity. He was in the left-turning lane but continued straight up towards City Hall. Taxi driver nearly hit him but cyclist went back and started provoking the taxi driver to get out of the car and "face him like a man".

I think these people are usually a bit mental anyway and will have a go at anybody who gets in their way.

By the way, I'm a cyclist, not a taxi driver!

cdaly_

chakattack wrote: »

On the + side, the talent in the park tonight was amazing. Some sort of running club training/fun run with lots of very cute fit girls in figure hugging attire

Made my training more enjoyable

That would be the upcoming Dublin Mini-Marathon in a few weeks time. Dunno if it's ladies only or not...

BostonB

Pedestrians on the cycle lanes in the park is always a problem. Especially in good weather. Some people just don't care and will go where ever they want. Thats just the way of the world. The runner here was just a ignorant bully, he obviously wasn't looking where the girl was or that combined they blocked the path.

Of course it doesn't help that the lanes are poorly sign posted, and I always thought it made no sense to have the cycle lanes beside where people park their cars. Because generally people on bikes aren't in a car. People who walk/run are, and they stop on the first path they find. This first path also ends up being the unloading point for the car. if the cycle lanes were the path further in most runners and walkers, wouldn't wander on to it.

On the north road to ashtown where this story takes place, the walking pavement is on one side of the road, and the cycling lane on the other. Why they did that I have no idea. Most people wouldn't expect that. They'd expect that both paths are for walking. I dunno how well its sign posted as I don't cycle there.

However further up where at the civil defence HQ theres only a onroad cycle lane but only on one side, and a pavement on the other. I've noticed what I assume are tourists using the cycle lane going in the wrong direction, towards oncoming traffic, as they must think they have to use the cycle lane. Not that theres one missing on the other side.

Is there an argument for banning all parking on the road, and only allowing it in car parks like the one at the zoo? Then moving the cycle lanes on road?

Lumen

BostonB wrote: »

Is there an argument for banning all parking on the road, and only allowing it in car parks like the one at the zoo? Then moving the cycle lanes on road?

There's a car park at the zoo?

monument

Lumen wrote: »

There's a car park at the zoo?

It's here:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=30+Botanic+Rd,+Dublin+9,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&t=h&ll=53.353977,-6.306474&spn=0.00342,0.010568&z=17

JMJR

Re: Phoenix Park.
Agreed that the great sean citizen and family don't appreciate the nuances of the cycle paths. What about an early warning of your impending intersection with their perambulation. While this is a light hearted suggestion overkill I would say that some form of gentle noise maker can be useful to make it clear that you are 'coming through'-even a bell is good for a warning but not aggressive enough to provoke.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/LargeImage.aspx?ModelID=20105&FileName=20105.jpg

Here's what some satisfied users had to say
Clive from United Kingdom Owner 30 January 2009 08:01

This is actually so loud that it is unpleasant to use. Excellent! The packaging claims under 100g, but my scales show 148g. Oh well. The packaging claims 115dB, not 120dB as CRC claims. The connecting hose is longer than pictured. Curiously, there is a volume control dial. Who would buy the loudest bell they can find then turn the volume down? If only spinal tap were here now... The bottle cap thread looks standard enough, so the bottle can be replaced with larger (empty) fizzy drinks bottles for larger volume charges. The red handlebar clamp bolts to your handlebars and the remainder of the assembly quick-releases from that. Enough Velcro is supplied such that you can stick the bottle anywhere to your frame, not necessarily in the drinks holders.

Anonymous from United Kingdom Owner 21 March 2009 15:28

This product sure gets people out of the way, great safety device specially when commutin through traffic. At first thought expensive but the amount of times its saved me from say a car door opening or pedestraian strolling out has made it well worth the money. It's effective against cars, trucks and everything else that gets in your way and really makes cars know your presence!! Get one

Vinny from United Kingdom Owner 03 June 2009 08:48

If you cycle to work, I would totally recommend buying this air horn. It's very loud (115db) and lasts quite a few long blasts between charge-ups. Max. charge = Max. loudness so keep it topped-up! Charging up is dead easy, lift the red push button up and attach a hand/foot pump. Doesn't take long to get it back to full 80psi charge. Main uses: Half-asleep drivers not giving enough room, suicidal pedestrians who just like crossing in front of you without looking and the worst one - cars overtaking you on a blind bend (I also have a side mirror so that I can see the clowns trying to do this). £15 - BARGAIN when you consider that a non-rechargeable one would cost the same.

Lumen

JMJR wrote: »

Re: Phoenix Park.
Agreed that the great sean citizen and family don't appreciate the nuances of the cycle paths. What about an early warning of your impending intersection with their perambulation. While this is a light hearted suggestion overkill I would say that some form of gentle noise maker can be useful to make it clear that you are 'coming through'-even a bell is good for a warning but not aggressive enough to provoke.

A loud bell works fine in the Park, and generally gets a smile.

Scaring the crap out of people is more likely to get you pushed off your bike.

robinph

cdaly_ wrote: »

That would be the upcoming Dublin Mini-Marathon wimins 10k in a few weeks time. Dunno if it's ladies only or not...

Yep, that is for the ladies only, but it certainly increased the number of them out running for a few miles over the next month or so so can't be to bad a thing.

BostonB

For some odd reason I put the bell I have had lying around for months on my bike at the weekend. Used it this morning to good effect, was like moses parting the sea. Its curious the number of walker/joggers who think I have to move out of their way on the cycle path in the park, and just come at you head on.

Its a little more interesting at night with the ninja joggers.

Lumen

BostonB wrote: »

For some odd reason I put the bell I have had lying around for months on my bike at the weekend. Used it this morning to good effect, was like moses parting the sea

...except for the iPodders. Grrrrr.

BostonB

That air horn looks fantastic. Does it come in Carbon?

Velo Bro

Lumen wrote: »

Fair enough, we differ.

I do it every time I used the park, wet or dry, with 23mm slick race tyres @ 100psi. I also have the bike handling skills of a drunk chimp, as anyone who has witnessed me attempt cyclocross can testify.

Lumen! You don't have enough pressure in your tyres!!! 110psi - 120psi presuming they're clinchers?

You should know better!! Tisk, Tisk:(

DualFrontDiscs

BostonB wrote: »

That air horn looks fantastic. Does it come in Carbon?

No, but you can fill it with Helium! Another option is a tire bell.

I'm tempted to get one.

DFD*

*DeafeningFromDistance.

Lumen

Velo Bro wrote: »

Lumen! You don't have enough pressure in your tyres!!! 110 - 120 presuming they're clinchers?

I don't think so. Link (pdf).

My wheel loads are probably about 31kg/46kg (race bike) and 32kg/49kg (commuter).

According to the chart I should be using about 70psi front and 110psi rear, but that seems a bit extreme to I generally use 90/100.