How detrimental are insulin spikes to fat loss?

StormWarrior

The more I read about diet, the more confused I become. I still have no idea if you must eat low-carb to lose fat to your full potential, and now I'm confused about insulin spikes. So many people say don't even eat fruit as it'll cause an insulin spike that will make you store fat, and eat low-carb for that reason. Others say it's just clories in, calories out. I don't know what to believe. Anorexics seem to have no trouble losing weight whilst eating fruit & potatoes. What do you think?

And how about when people say if you eat protein with a carb it's better because it lowers the GI of the carb, but then other people say don't eat protein with carbs?

And what about when people say you must not eat fat at the same time as carbs as it will make you store more fat?

Khannie

I think you're right to be confused. I'm gonna move this to nutrition and diet though. It's a straightforward nutrition / diet question.

My 2c: I think insulin spikes are to be avoided generally. I would say that total calories play the most significant part in weight control. I wouldn't be concerned in the slightest about eating reasonable amounts of fruit. I think if you monitor what goes in you're likely to lose weight. I think if you're gonna cut back on something it should mostly be carbs though and especially simple carbs.

edit: if you want this moved back to fitness for a fitness specific viewpoint then fire ahead and ask and I'll leave it in fitness after it gets back there.

El_Dangeroso

StormWarrior wrote: »

The more I read about diet, the more confused I become. I still have no idea if you must eat low-carb to lose fat to your full potential, and now I'm confused about insulin spikes. So many people say don't even eat fruit as it'll cause an insulin spike that will make you store fat, and eat low-carb for that reason. Others say it's just clories in, calories out. I don't know what to believe. Anorexics seem to have no trouble losing weight whilst eating fruit & potatoes. What do you think?

And how about when people say if you eat protein with a carb it's better because it lowers the GI of the carb, but then other people say don't eat protein with carbs?

And what about when people say you must not eat fat at the same time as carbs as it will make you store more fat?

Yikes! You have yourself tied in knots about this! It is really easy to get confused, there is so much contradictory info out there.

Weight loss does come down to energy deficit ultimately. How this is achieved is probably the biggest area of debate. Personally, I feel when you start feeding your body a nutrient dense, wholefoods diet (with an eye on overall carb intake) calories regulate themselves as your appetite signalling starts working properly. You can skip that step and just manually lower calories but most people (not all) tend to 'defend' a certain weight and bounce back.

Regarding an insulin spike, everything you eat triggers insulin in various quantities, in fact, if you even look at food your body starts making it in anticipation. Food advertisements could indeed be contributing to the obesity epidemic!

Re: Fruit and potato, yes these are on the no-no list for a low-carb diet in the initial stages, but berries are fine and they are the first thing that's added back in once you feel comfortable with your rate of weightloss.

Personally, I'd buy a book, stick to the rules while ignoring what everyone else says, once you feel like you're happy with it, start experimenting with different things. There's no one-size-fits all approach when it comes to maintaining your loss. Just stick to unprocessed (read: one ingredient) food and you won't go too far wrong.

corkcomp

whooooo confusion reigns alright.

dont have much time here, but IMO it comes down to calorie content mainly.. most non tropical fruit is low enough in calories that you dont need to worry .. Personally I rarely eat potatoes, I find whole grain rice / pasta more filling, probably down to the G.I rating.

if you are very over weight or already insulin resistant then you should be trying to avoid big insulin spikes. eating lean protein with carbs is fine .. if you are normal weight you can get away with combining fats and carbs but if you are over weight and / or insulin resistant or heading that way then you should be careful of simple carbs + fats together ..

Macha

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Regarding an insulin spike, everything you eat triggers insulin in various quantities, in fact, if you even look at food your body starts making it in anticipation. Food advertisements could indeed be contributing to the obesity epidemic!

What about post-work out carb intake?

J-Fit

taconnol wrote: »

What about post-work out carb intake?

In that case an insulin spike can be beneficial. In my experience insulin spikes themselves, though more likely to induce fat storage, will be completely over-rided by an overall energy deficit. I myself would avoid insulin spikes from a general health point of view, not because I think that they will dramatically affect fat loss. Not eating simple carbs and fats together is generally a good idea but it shouldn't ever really come to fruition because protein should be consumed at every meal anyway. As for fruit and insulin spikes? I've never seen anybody get fat from eating fruit. It comes from the earth and I would rarely rule out any food group that we as humans were always designed to consume. It's the processed man made stuff (including dried fruit) that should be avoided.

Transform

J-Fit wrote: »

In that case an insulin spike can be beneficial. In my experience insulin spikes themselves, though more likely to induce fat storage, will be completely over-rided by an overall energy deficit. I myself would avoid insulin spikes from a general health point of view, not because I think that they will dramatically affect fat loss. Not eating simple carbs and fats together is generally a good idea but it shouldn't ever really come to fruition because protein should be consumed at every meal anyway. As for fruit and insulin spikes? I've never seen anybody get fat from eating fruit. It comes from the earth and I would rarely rule out any food group that we as humans were always designed to consume. It's the processed man made stuff (including dried fruit) that should be avoided.

High GI carbs are ok pre and post workout (going for a walk does not count as a workout that warants high gi carbs).

All other times low gi and yes it does make a massive difference to fat loss

J-Fit

Transform wrote: »

High GI carbs are ok pre and post workout (going for a walk does not count as a workout that warants high gi carbs).

That's an odd post you've made there. Where did I or anybody else mention anything about going for a walk?

Transform wrote: »

All other times low gi and yes it does make a massive difference to fat loss

As to why it makes a difference (which I did acknowledge) is a chicken and egg scenario that we could go on all day about. Is it because insulin signals the body to store fat or is it because the subsequent drop in insulin levels causes us to crave more sugary foods? A bit of both in my opinion but nevertheless, one can still lose fat on a high(er) GI/low calorie combination. That was my point though I would never advise the approach.

Transform

J-Fit wrote: »

That's an odd post you've made there. Where did I or anybody else mention anything about going for a walk?



As to why it makes a difference (which I did acknowledge) is a chicken and egg scenario that we could go on all day about. Is it because insulin signals the body to store fat or is it because the subsequent drop in insulin levels causes us to crave more sugary foods? A bit of both in my opinion but nevertheless, one can still lose fat on a high(er) GI/low calorie combination. That was my point though I would never advise the approach.

to be honest i did not read the other posts i just posted my thoughts and if someone is really busting their ass to get in better shape i guarantee they will never get there on a calorie controlled diet only - the total carb intake and GI of said carbs is critical.

For someone coming from a junk filled diet any change at all will work

Magic Eight Ball

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

if you even look at food your body starts making it in anticipation. Food advertisements could indeed be contributing to the obesity epidemic!

Sounds very interesting, can you post any links?

El_Dangeroso

Trevor Coulahan wrote: »

Sounds very interesting, can you post any links?

Here you go:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/42/5/991 (if you want the full text drop me a pm)

In fairness, it is a tiny insulin response and seems to only apply to overweight people. Smell on the other hand seems to elicit a much more powerful response as the body gears up to eat. That damn gorgeous baking bread smell they pump out of subway shops is no mistake

But insulin spikes are very individual. A normal weight, insulin sensitive person won't really experience severe spikes no matter what they eat.

Chronically high insulin is more of a concern than the odd spike in my book. So constant grazing on carbs all day long would be best avoided.

StormWarrior

I'm still confused about fruit though. Alot of people say it's best avoided if you want to lose a noticeable amount of weight. Can you get all of the necessary vitamins and minerals just from veg?

El_Dangeroso

Yep you can, some people have a bad glucose reaction to fruit especially tropical fruit.

Best fruits generally in terms of blood glucose are berries.

Worst are pineapple and grapes. Having said that, you could tolerate them just fine depending on what shape your glucose tolerance is in.

Eat some pineapple first thing in the morning, are you STARVING (as in MUST. EAT. NOW.) an hour later? That's a sign that it creates a massive spike and then dip in blood sugar in you personally. Then try it with some berries and see what that does.

Fruit doesn't cause problems in and of itself, but it can exacerbate existing problems.

StormWarrior

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Eat some pineapple first thing in the morning, are you STARVING (as in MUST. EAT. NOW.) an hour later? That's a sign that it creates a massive spike and then dip in blood sugar in you personally.

Whenever I eat a fruit salad for breakfast, no matter what kinds of fruit, this is always exactly what happens to me, I'm absolutely ravenous and can't help bingeing within the next hour.

El_Dangeroso

Attaching full text for Trevor.

El_Dangeroso

Oops, this time..

Magic Eight Ball

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Oops, this time..

Thanking you again. :pac:

EileenG

StormWarrior wrote: »

I'm still confused about fruit though. Alot of people say it's best avoided if you want to lose a noticeable amount of weight. Can you get all of the necessary vitamins and minerals just from veg?

Absolutely. Veg has higher concentrations of vitamins and minerals that fruit, and usually with lower calories. For instance, red peppers have far more vitamin C than oranges. Even brussel sprouts and broccoli have lots of Vit C.

StormWarrior

But things like brocoli, doesn't the cooking destroy the vitamins?

EileenG

Depends. In some veg, cooking makes the vitamins more accessible. But the comparision chart I looked at was comparing cooked veg with things like oranges.