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Union Members betrayed by leaders in the Croke Park Sellout...

  • 12-04-2010 11:15AM
    #1
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭


    Firstly I'm a CPSU member on €400 a week.

    This 'deal' was not about pay. Its about members being asked to agree to possible mandatory decentralisation in the future. To their disgrace the union leaders tried to pull the wool over members eyes by spinning the non commitments on pay and totaly left out the Redeployment and Pensions documents which concede massive Terms and conditions of employment we currently hold and on top of that we were asked to accept a no strike clause for the next four years.

    Now we've come to expect this type of slash and burn tactics from the Dept of Finance but its downright reprehensible for our union leaders to do the Govt's grubby work for them.

    Thankfully members across the Public service have read the small print and will reject it out of hand...


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,044 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Thankfully members across the Public service have read the small print and will reject it out of hand...
    Go ahead so. Your pay will be cut by 8% again in December.

    400 quid a week GUARANTEED is better than a lot of people. I presume that is your net take home pay?

    The dole and all that will be cut again too, have no fear, so 400 a week will start to look very attractive compared to 150.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    Firstly I'm a CPSU member on €400 a week.

    This 'deal' was not about pay. Its about members being asked to agree to possible mandatory decentralisation in the future. To their disgrace the union leaders tried to pull the wool over members eyes by spinning the non commitments on pay and totaly left out the Redeployment and Pensions documents which concede massive Terms and conditions of employment we currently hold and on top of that we were asked to accept a no strike clause for the next four years.

    Now we've come to expect this type of slash and burn tactics from the Dept of Finance but its downright reprehensible for our union leaders to do the Govt's grubby work for them.

    Thankfully members across the Public service have read the small print and will reject it out of hand...
    It has everything to do about pay, if savings aren't made then your pay will be cut again. Have ye not learned that at this stage

    What do you actually expect will happen by rejecting this? Do you think the unions will be back at the negotiating table getting a better deal for ye.

    There isn't a hope in hell that any government in the world would guarantee no paycuts like ye are expecting.

    Your wage is irrelevant to this debate also


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    If you reject this deal you will be hit with more wage cuts and nothing will be done about it because their is no appetite across the PS for an all out strike.

    Will you feel less betrayed if you end up on a picket line collecting a tiny amount of strike pay??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Thankfully members across the Public service have read the small print and will reject it out of hand...
    On the basis that you want your pay cuts back?

    Why can a few people not seem to understand this? The money to pay you, simply isn't there. We can't afford to pay the old PS salaries in the short to medium term. No amount of foot stomping and striking can change that basic fact.

    NAMA and whatever bailouts are irrelevant. Their sources are different, their returns are different, their aims are different.

    Your employer's finances are not in a good way, so the best that you can hope for is an agreement that minimises the impact on its employees; you. You will not get any agreement that makes life sweeter for you because we're all out of sugar.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    murphaph wrote: »
    Go ahead so. Your pay will be cut by 8% again in December.

    400 quid a week GUARANTEED is better than a lot of people. I presume that is your net take home pay?

    The dole and all that will be cut again too, have no fear, so 400 a week will start to look very attractive compared to 150.

    There are no guarantees on pay in this agreement. Each one is under the get out clause of prevailing economic conditions...


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  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    It has everything to do about pay, if savings aren't made then your pay will be cut again. Have ye not learned that at this stage

    What do you actually expect will happen by rejecting this? Do you think the unions will be back at the negotiating table getting a better deal for ye.

    There isn't a hope in hell that any government in the world would guarantee no paycuts like ye are expecting.

    Your wage is irrelevant to this debate also

    I agree with you that we've no guarantee on pay. Why then would we voluntarily sign up to a deal that gives huge concessions, castrates our power to have a strike option for nothing concrete in return..?


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    If you reject this deal you will be hit with more wage cuts and nothing will be done about it because their is no appetite across the PS for an all out strike.

    Let them try and cut our pay in future. I've no doubt they will but at least we'll not have agreed to mandatory decentralisation and changes to our pensions...


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    seamus wrote: »
    On the basis that you want your pay cuts back?

    Why can a few people not seem to understand this? The money to pay you, simply isn't there. We can't afford to pay the old PS salaries in the short to medium term. No amount of foot stomping and striking can change that basic fact.

    NAMA and whatever bailouts are irrelevant. Their sources are different, their returns are different, their aims are different.

    Your employer's finances are not in a good way, so the best that you can hope for is an agreement that minimises the impact on its employees; you. You will not get any agreement that makes life sweeter for you because we're all out of sugar.

    We may never say our paycuts clawed back which is why it would be ludicrous to give such big concessions on redeployment...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Let them try and cut our pay in future. I've no doubt they will but at least we'll not have agreed to mandatory decentralisation and changes to our pensions...

    Don't be ridiculous. They don't have to "try" to cut your wages. They will just cut them. Can't you see. No one cares about you. Go on strike. No one cares. The government hold all the cards. The CPSu have none. Get real.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭steof1984


    murphaph wrote: »
    Go ahead so. Your pay will be cut by 8% again in December.

    400 quid a week GUARANTEED is better than a lot of people. I presume that is your net take home pay?

    The dole and all that will be cut again too, have no fear, so 400 a week will start to look very attractive compared to 150.

    If his pay will be deducted 8% as you say won’t that mean he won’t be on €400 a week? He will be on €368.

    I also think it’s a gross over exaggeration to say they will cut welfare by 25%.

    So I think its wrong of you to compare €400 to €150


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  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    OMD wrote: »
    Don't be ridiculous. They don't have to "try" to cut your wages. They will just cut them. Can't you see. No one cares about you. Go on strike. No one cares. The government hold all the cards. The CPSu have none. Get real.


    We are getting very real. We've told our leaders to stuff this betrayal dressed up as a deal where the sun doesn't shine. What we have we hold and prepare for the new wave of attacks on our pay...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Rejection of this deal is simply cutting off ye're noses to spite ye're face. The coutry is in financial meltdown and all the strikes and protests in the world will not change that. I can see this getting really ugly in the coming months as the Croke Park deal seems to be dead in the water. Blair Horan said this morning that it can be renegotiated but I am not so sure the Government will be willing to give any more ground than they have, as we simply don't know what is around the corner. It would be very risky to make promises that they can't keep, even though they will likely be out of power by the time it would be necessary to renege on any agreements so who knows.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Go ahead, strike. You won't be missed. You do f.uck all anyway.

    Why strike now. We've got to keep that option for extreme circumstances...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    mickeyk wrote: »
    Rejection of this deal is simply cutting off ye're noses to spite ye're face.


    Rejecting this deal is our only option as it asks us to make huge concessions on redeployment and pensions for nothing in return. A no brainer...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    This post has been deleted.

    I've threatened no one here...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Why strike now. We've got to keep that option for extreme circumstances...


    Lets say you go on strike and after a month or so the government give in. What do you hope to get? What do you realistically expect to get?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    This post has been deleted.
    +1 there are hundreds of thousands of people who would love to be lowly paid if that is the definition


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    steof1984 wrote: »
    If his pay will be deducted 8% as you say won’t that mean he won’t be on €400 a week? He will be on €368.


    No it doesn't. That is his after tax and after levy income and before yearly increments. His pay cuts so far have cost him about 50C a day in after tax income. Another 8% will see his pay next year down about €8-10 a week


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  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    This post has been deleted.

    It would certainly be up there for consideration in such a circumstance...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Rejecting this deal is our only option as it asks us to make huge concessions on redeployment and pensions for nothing in return. A no brainer...
    What you're getting in return is stability. A steadfast guarantee that your jobs and your existing salaries are safe.

    The present course we're on means that lots of you are going to lose your jobs and all of you are going to have your pay cut again.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    OMD wrote: »
    Lets say you go on strike and after a month or so the government give in. What do you hope to get? What do you realistically expect to get?

    I'd have to know what we went on strike for first...:p


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    seamus wrote: »
    What you're getting in return is stability. A steadfast guarantee that your jobs and your existing salaries are safe.

    The present course we're on means that lots of you are going to lose your jobs and all of you are going to have your pay cut again.

    All the 'guarantees' have provisos that mean the Govt can renegue on them. Read the agreement if you don't believe me. So its ridiculous to expect us to make such concessions...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    I'd have to know what we went on strike for first...:p

    That is the question. What would you go on strike for?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    I agree with you that we've no guarantee on pay. Why then would we voluntarily sign up to a deal that gives huge concessions, castrates our power to have a strike option for nothing concrete in return..?

    Before answering your question, let me tell you that I am in the public service camp (I am a retired public servant, and many of my family have been, or currently are, public servants).

    Now your answer: I believe you should accept the deal because it is the best you can get. The government is not in a position to offer you anything more. Then the unions should concentrate on trying to have it implemented in the best way possible -- that is, to deliver improvements in service delivery with the least pain to staff.

    I do not believe that the union leaders are selling out on their members. They are taking a more temperate line because they are looking at the big picture, and they see how damaging it would be to the interests of their members (and to society more generally) if they go down the paths that their more disgruntled members, of whom there are many, would favour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Rejecting this deal is our only option as it asks us to make huge concessions on redeployment and pensions for nothing in return. A no brainer...
    That's fair enough but you didn't have much sympathy before this agreement, you will have zero if you reject it. Even some of your leaders seem to have come around to how bad things are in this country, the Celtic Tiger is dead and gone and it ain't coming back any time soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    OMD wrote: »
    That is the question. What would you go on strike for?

    I've no crystal ball mate...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    I've no crystal ball mate...
    So basically reject the deal and then let the unions who did a sell out negotiate again if the government are willing to negotiate. So what are you willing to compromise for your rejection of this deal? What will the unions have to go back to the table?


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