Vigilante - how far away are you?

Caveat

Basically the only thing that stops me is the fear of getting caught.

Other than that I would have no qualms about permanently debilitating a few scumbags. Just being honest.

galwayrush

For me, spur of the moment, probably. Pre-meditated, no.

copacetic

Caveat wrote: »

Basically the only thing that stops me is the fear of getting caught.

Other than that I would have no qualms about permanently debilitating a few scumbags. Just being honest.

I'm right behind you. Boo!

karma_

someone watch Kick-ass did they?

MistyCheese

Well, the very next person to kick my seat at the cinema will walk away unharmed but the one after that... that person shall never be seen nor heard from again.

yosemite_sam

I was accosted by a couple of idiots last Sunday night

MultiUmm

Caveat wrote: »

Basically the only thing that stops me is the fear of getting caught.

Other than that I would have no qualms about permanently debilitating a few scumbags. Just being honest.

Yeaaah, right on man!:cool: Fúck the law right out the window and cause more violence. That'll show dem dere criminalz.

Do you really think turning some drug dealer into a paraplegic and ending up in prison for it while he receives benefits from the state will really help anyone? Really?

CoalBucket

MultiUmm wrote: »

Yeaaah, right on man!:cool: Fúck the law right out the window and cause more violence. That'll show dem dere criminalz.

Do you really think turning some drug dealer into a paraplegic and ending up in prison for it while he receives benefits from the state will really help anyone? Really?

I agree, you are gonna have to kill him !

SV

MultiUmm wrote: »

Yeaaah, right on man!:cool: Fúck the law right out the window and cause more violence. That'll show dem dere criminalz.

I think the law has clearly shown itself to have failed in this country.
Well, rather justice.

Mrmoe

The problem with being a vigilante in this country is that it will probably be the one time that the law is enforced. I don't think people get tired when they see the law being applied but not necessarily justice. It can be quite infuriating.

minidazzler

MultiUmm wrote: »

Yeaaah, right on man!:cool: Fúck the law right out the window and cause more violence. That'll show dem dere criminalz.

Do you really think turning some drug dealer into a paraplegic and ending up in prison for it while he receives benefits from the state will really help anyone? Really?

There are ways to not get caught TBH, it's not like the guards investigate crap that happens to drug dealers very much.

It's not fear of getting caught that stops me, I don't know what does really, lack of a gun? Not sure.

geeky

Caveat wrote: »

Basically the only thing that stops me is the fear of getting caught.

Other than that I would have no qualms about permanently debilitating a few scumbags. Just being honest.

Define scumbag.

marbar

the north worked when the vigilaties were wrecking the shop

they stopped and my car got raped

tony1kenobi

As soon as I end my self imposed exile and take up my position as heir of my late fathers empire I am considering dressing up as a bat and kicking the sh*t out of people at night.............for the craic.

MultiUmm

SV wrote: »

I think the law has clearly shown itself to have failed in this country.
Well, rather justice.

So the correct thing to do is descend into anarchy and disregard the law? When that happens, anyone can try and justify a crime if they argued it was morally right and for the good of the community.

Turning yourself into a criminal by killing or maiming some scummer isn't the way to stop crime.

My name is URL

So I said, "Look buddy, your car was upside-down when I got here. And as for your grandmother, she shouldn't have mouthed off like that."

MultiUmm

minidazzler wrote: »

There are ways to not get caught TBH, it's not like the guards investigate crap that happens to drug dealers very much.

It's not fear of getting caught that stops me, I don't know what does really, lack of a gun? Not sure.

Could you really shoot a guy though? Even if he is a drug dealer. What if he has kids? Could you just shoot him in the face and leave him for dead? I couldn't. And I have no shame in admitting that.

Thinking about doing it and putting it into practice are two different things.

marbar

vigilties rarely kill people though
just batter them

minidazzler

MultiUmm wrote: »

Could you really shoot a guy though? Even if he is a drug dealer. What if he has kids? Could you just shoot him in the face and leave him for dead? I couldn't. And I have no shame in admitting that.

Thinking about doing it and putting it into practice are two different things.

In the right situation anyone will do anything.

I don't know if I could do it premeditated, I guess I could and I wouldn't think about their kids, because they don't think about other people's kids.

I could kill a man no bother if he was a threat to my family or friends. Premeditation is where I become unsure.

The_Minister

Caveat wrote: »

Basically the only thing that stops me is the fear of getting caught.

Other than that I would have no qualms about permanently debilitating a few scumbags. Just being honest.

That's a pretty strong statement.

Are you sure you wouldn't like to add any caveats?

MultiUmm

marbar wrote: »

vigilties rarely kill people though
just batter them

How badly? Turning them into cripples? Like I said, what good does that do?

Guy who batters him ends up in prison for a while, costs the taxpayer money, battered scumbag goes on to be involved in crime but with state benefits. That doesn't solve anything.

MultiUmm

MultiUmm wrote: »

So the correct thing to do is descend into anarchy and disregard the law? When that happens, anyone can try and justify a crime if they argued it was morally right and for the good of the community.

Turning yourself into a criminal by killing or maiming some scummer isn't the way to stop crime.

Our law/justic/etc. system isn't working. This has been shown on many occasions. Doesn't seem to be any talk of reforming it or fixing the problems. What other options are there?

MultiUmm

MultiUmm wrote: »

Guy who batters him ends up in prison for a while, costs the taxpayer money

But he doesn't end up in prison. That's the whole point! Justice is not prevailing.

geeky

Deleted User wrote: »

Our law/justic/etc. system isn't working. This has been shown on many occasions. Doesn't seem to be any talk of reforming it or fixing the problems. What other options are there?

So individuals should take it upon themselves to define who is and isn't a scumbag, and dole out justice accordingly?

geeky

geeky wrote: »

So individuals should take it upon themselves to define who is and isn't a scumbag, and dole out justice accordingly?

Sounds about right.


Why, do you have any alternatives? (Aside from a proper going over of our current system to make it actually mean something).

MultiUmm

minidazzler wrote: »

In the right situation anyone will do anything.

I don't know if I could do it premeditated, I guess I could and I wouldn't think about their kids, because they don't think about other people's kids.

I could kill a man no bother if he was a threat to my family or friends. Premeditation is where I become unsure.

Fair enough if you're life or your families is under immediate threat and you act in defence. But premeditated is a different story.

Say if you do get caught and sent to prison, what good does that do? You ruin your life and your families, the druggie is replaced by another possibly worse guy and the entire community suffers.

The problem lies with the courts and DPP imo. I'm (unfortunately) related to a man who assaulted another man and stole his money. File sent to the DPP took ages to come back. Finally ends up in court about a year and a half later, and what does he get? Community Service. The justice system is completely inept, I do agree with that.

Sentences too short, prisons too cushy. I mean flatscreen TV'S in mountjoy, wtf? :mad: Our prisons are jokes. Criminals should fear them, not feel like they're going on a holiday.

starbelgrade

Caveat wrote: »

Basically the only thing that stops me is the fear of getting caught.

Other than that I would have no qualms about permanently debilitating a few scumbags. Just being honest.

Or in other words, I'm so hard that I'd batter anyone who I consider "scum", and as I consider myself of such high moral standing, then I am both capable and worthy of dishing out this punishment in my roles of judge, jury & exceutioner.

But I wouldn't do it coz I'm afraid of getting caught.


Hmm, the phrase "all mouth & no action" comes to mind.

MultiUmm

Deleted User wrote: »

Our law/justic/etc. system isn't working. This has been shown on many occasions. Doesn't seem to be any talk of reforming it or fixing the problems. What other options are there?

I honestly can't say what other options there are.

The justice system desperately needs reform, but not one party is willing to do it.

However, more violence won't solve anything.

Say vigilantes organise themselves, becoming a gang of their own "for the good of the community". Criminal gangs take notice and attack them and their families, they retaliate, innocent people end up suffering as a result.

What does this solve??

geeky

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds about right.


Why, do you have any alternatives? (Aside from a proper going over of our current system to make it actually mean something).

A democratically-agreed set of rules (otherwise known as the law) that set boundaries for how people should behave in society and punishments for people who act outside them.

Yeah, our legal system needs reform, but where you want to make it 'mean something', other people might feel it's too punitive in certain areas. Making law is a compromise, and nobody has a right to go out with a weapon when they don't get their own way.

minidazzler

MultiUmm wrote: »

Fair enough if you're life or your families is under immediate threat and you act in defence. But premeditated is a different story.

Say if you do get caught and sent to prison, what good does that do? You ruin your life and your families, the druggie is replaced by another possibly worse guy and the entire community suffers.

The problem lies with the courts and DPP imo. I'm (unfortunately) related to a man who assaulted another man and stole his money. File sent to the DPP took ages to come back. Finally ends up in court about a year and a half later, and what does he get? Community Service. The justice system is completely inept, I do agree with that.

Sentences too short, prisons too cushy. I mean flatscreen TV'S in mountjoy, wtf? :mad: Our prisons are jokes. Criminals should fear them, not feel like they're going on a holiday.

Prison wouldn't bother me too much TBH, for a few reasons that there is no point in getting into.

It would not ruin my families life, mine it might fcuk up.

Only something like 13 per cent of murders that happen in this country are actually prosecuted and end up with jail sentences IIRC. So you are better off killing the person than anything else.

I won't even begin with my own relations! Plenty of scumbags in my family.

marbar

4 legs good

rock chic

Caveat wrote: »

Basically the only thing that stops me is the fear of getting caught.

Other than that I would have no qualms about permanently debilitating a few scumbags. Just being honest.

i feel thesame totally agree with ya

starbelgrade

rock chic wrote: »

i feel thesame totally agree with ya

And what are you going to do? Hit them with your laptop? Send them some spam & fill up their inbox - that'd really teach them a lesson.

MultiUmm

minidazzler wrote: »

Prison wouldn't bother me too much TBH, for a few reasons that there is no point in getting into.

It would not ruin my families life, mine it might fcuk up.

Only something like 13 per cent of murders that happen in this country are actually prosecuted and end up with jail sentences IIRC. So you are better off killing the person than anything else.

I won't even begin with my own relations! Plenty of scumbags in my family.

I don't know, gangland crime starts way deeper than most people imagine.

I'm not sure if killing them is the answer, it might be, but only if perhaps done by the state, ie a death penalty.

I'm arguing against people ignoring the laws that exist, becoming criminals themselves to try and solve crime, not necessarily getting rid of a few scroungers on society.

By my first point I meant that a lot of crime starts from the minute a kid is born. I've been to Southill, it's a bleak place.

A kid who's born there might come from a broken home where his dad beats the living hell out of him and his mother is an alco. He sees no future other than crime. Why does the state ignore this, and why can't it at least attempt to try and solve social inequalities which cause crime?

minidazzler

MultiUmm wrote: »

I don't know, gangland crime starts way deeper than most people imagine.

I'm not sure if killing them is the answer, it might be, but only if perhaps done by the state, ie a death penalty.

I'm arguing against people ignoring the laws that exist, becoming criminals themselves to try and solve crime, not necessarily getting rid of a few scroungers on society.

By my first point I meant that a lot of crime starts from the minute a kid is born. I've been to Southill, it's a bleak place.

A kid who's born there might come from a broken home where his dad beats the living hell out of him and his mother is an alco. He sees no future other than crime. Why does the state ignore this, and why can't it at least attempt to try and solve social inequalities which cause crime?

There are varying degree's of evil. If I kill a Heroin importer in the morning, in his bed, even in front of his kids, and I do it not because I am a rival, but because he has brought the drugs that have killed someone I know into the country. I will not be seen as the villian in the court of public opinion.

You mention Southill, bad situation made him do it. Well, when that bad situation means you are going around with a Glock on your belt hoping to kill someone just because of money, then I have no sympathy TBH.,

I agree with the death penalty, what I don't agree with is letting people live 15 years on death row before killing them! I actually felt bad when I read the guy who started the Crips was given the death penalty after being in prison so long that he had really changed. Kill them while the evil still exists, or leave them in prison long enough to get it out. Don't get it out then kill them.

MultiUmm

minidazzler wrote: »

There are varying degree's of evil. If I kill a Heroin importer in the morning, in his bed, even in front of his kids, and I do it not because I am a rival, but because he has brought the drugs that have killed someone I know into the country. I will not be seen as the villian in the court of public opinion.

You mention Southill, bad situation made him do it. Well, when that bad situation means you are going around with a Glock on your belt hoping to kill someone just because of money, then I have no sympathy TBH.,

I agree with the death penalty, what I don't agree with is letting people live 15 years on death row before killing them! I actually felt bad when I read the guy who started the Crips was given the death penalty after being in prison so long that he had really changed. Kill them while the evil still exists, or leave them in prison long enough to get it out. Don't get it out then kill them.

Wouldn't you? Public opinion would be split, at best. You may have known the person who died from heroin, they may have been a friend, a family member, relative, etc., but to the public it won't be a good enough justification. "Just some junkie who died" they'll say. + the killing him in front of his kids is pretty fúcking callous. Lots of people would be very torn over that, so public opinion won't unanimously be for the vigilante.

I'm not defending the guy with a glock looking to shoot an innocent man in the face. He is most likely beyond redemption unfortunately. But if he'd at least had some kind of a chance maybe he wouldn't be going around with the gun in his belt and knife in his runners now. Maybe if the authorities did something, anything, to keep kids away from the scum who recruit them and to give them a chance in life, ie eliminating social inequality. (which is huge in Ireland imo)

Knowing this kip he'll be 50 years waiting, on his death bed anyway and then he'll be told "It's time" :mad: If the death penalty was implemented (which it won't be, too many bleeding hearts would prevent it) it would need to be seriously efficient. No **** ups like there usually is with most state run things.

Shulgin

geeky wrote: »

Define scumbag.

^^ This

What defines a scumbag then?

MultiUmm

Shulgin wrote: »

^^ This

What defines a scumbag then?

A scumbag is someone who contributes in no meaningful way to society, never has and doesn't plan on it.

A scumbag is someone who in some way affects society in a negative way, whether it be through intimidating people, bringing drugs and crime into a community and ruining lives.

A scumbag is someone who makes vulnerable people, like minorities, the elderly and others, feel afraid to sleep at night or go out the door because of harassment.

A scumbag is a useless waste of space, who feels no compassion, or in fact any emotions at all really other than negative ones like hate or anger.

In short, a scumbag is, well, a scumbag.

Donkey Oaty

MultiUmm wrote: »

A scumbag is someone who contributes in no meaningful way to society, never has and doesn't plan on it.

A scumbag is someone who in some way affects society in a negative way, whether it be through intimidating people, bringing drugs and crime into a community and ruining lives.

A scumbag is someone who makes vulnerable people, like minorities, the elderly and others, feel afraid to sleep at night or go out the door because of harassment.

A scumbag is a useless waste of space, who feels no compassion, or in fact any emotions at all really other than negative ones like hate or anger.

In short, a scumbag is, well, a scumbag.

What if that scumbag was your son? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

Dave!

Wow this is a terrible thread

MultiUmm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

What if that scumbag was your son? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

I'd be devastated that my son would turn out like that and I'd ask where did I go wrong. I can't say I'd disown him, although he sure as hell wouldn't be living off me.

MultiUmm

Dave! wrote: »

Wow this is a terrible thread

How so? Yeah it's not great but meh, there were worse threads in AH tonight.

Did you read the frigging 90's thread? :eek: It was faceplam central ....

K-9

marbar wrote: »

the north worked when the vigilaties were wrecking the shop

they stopped and my car got raped

This.

Robert McCartney anybody?

Vigilantes equals people in fear of the enforcers.

Shulgin

MultiUmm wrote: »

A scumbag is someone who in some way affects society in a negative way, whether it be through intimidating people, bringing drugs and crime into a community and ruining lives..

The drug related crime is largely down to prohibition, the government is to blame for not legalising and regulating the softer drugs.

Heroin and the like would be different of course because of the sheer addictiveness and well known misery it causes.

What about the bankers, speculators and anyone else involved in the cause of out fooked economy? These people have caused misery to communities everywhere. These guys are proper scumbags.
The guy down the road selling weed or mdma or the local headshop owner haven't a patch on those guys in ruining lives.

MultiUmm

Shulgin wrote: »

The drug related crime is largely down to prohibition, the government is to blame for not legalising and regulating the softer drugs.

Heroin and the like would be different of course because of the sheer addictiveness and well known misery it causes.

What about the bankers, speculators and anyone else involved in the cause of out fooked economy? These people have caused misery to communities everywhere. These guys are proper scumbags.
The guy down the road selling weed or mdma or the local headshop owner haven't a patch on those guys in ruining lives.

Well the government are hardly known for their progressive ideas, so I doubt softer drugs will ever be legal, especially with all the hysteria about head shops at the mo.

Hard drugs are the ones I'm on about. Heroin, meth, coke, e's for example.

A different kind of scumbag, but they still manage to have the same purpose, contribute feck all to society and take away from it, giving nothing in return.

ScumLord

I'm still trying to get into the mindset of the criminal like at the beginning of the last Batman film. I've robbed eight old ladies this week, next week I'm going to claim the dole while doing a bit of work on the side. This vigilante craic is hard work.

minidazzler

MultiUmm wrote: »

Well the government are hardly known for their progressive ideas, so I doubt softer drugs will ever be legal, especially with all the hysteria about head shops at the mo.

Hard drugs are the ones I'm on about. Heroin, meth, coke, e's for example.

A different kind of scumbag, but they still manage to have the same purpose, contribute feck all to society and take away from it, giving nothing in return.

Extacy is not a hard drug, not by any manner of means.

Dudess

MultiUmm wrote: »

I've been to Southill, it's a bleak place.

A kid who's born there might come from a broken home where his dad beats the living hell out of him and his mother is an alco. He sees no future other than crime. Why does the state ignore this, and why can't it at least attempt to try and solve social inequalities which cause crime?

:eek:

Brace yourself: because of your balanced, logical, well-thought-out post, you are gonna get called a bleedingheartdo-gooderlooneyliberalleftiePCright-onTrotskyitetree-huggertrendyhippiecommienazi!

MultiUmm

minidazzler wrote: »

Extacy is not a hard drug, not by any manner of means.

I'd disagree. I'll admit, I'm no expert but from what I've heard of it it can have some nasty side effects, + the crap that goes into it. Wouldn't be as bad as heroin but it's still pretty lethal imo.

MultiUmm

Dudess wrote: »

:eek:

Brace yourself: because of your balanced, logical, well-thought-out post, you are gonna get called a bleedingheartdo-gooderlooneyliberalleftiePCright-onTrotskyitetree-huggertrendyhippiecommienazi!

Well, I was quietly contemplating that myself when I was writing it .. And I thought "Maybe I should slip in the fact I'm not trying to cheerlead for the Joe Higgins brigade, but I'm sure the users of AH will see it in a reasonable manner ... "



.... Dear God, what have I let myself in for? :eek:

minidazzler

MultiUmm wrote: »

I'd disagree. I'll admit, I'm no expert but from what I've heard of it it can have some nasty side effects, + the crap that goes into it. Wouldn't be as bad as heroin but it's still pretty lethal imo.

You are wrong. Very very wrong.

The stuff you read, absolute horse-sh1t.

It does fcuk all physical harm, You are unlikely to develop a physical dependancy on it.

People usually don't OD on extacy, they are too busy raving that they don't drink water. They dehydrate.

As a drug it's not that harmful at all. There is more harm in prescribed drugs TBH.

http://www.udel.edu/chem/theopold/chem465/copland.udel.edu/~rmarcus/drug%20chart.gif

That isn't conclusive proof of course, but it is a good indication.

The difference between the recreational dose and lethal dose is quite large too.

I'm not a drug person, but I do like drugs to be labeled correctly. Extacy is not a hard drug.

The worst thing about it is people coming down from it, annoying cnuts the lot of them!