NCT & Window Tinting failure

amurray32

Hi,
just failed the NCT on a Grand Scenic 04 because of window tinting on the front driver and passanger window and small triangular window mirror. I bought the car second hand and I believe this was a Renault feature at original purchase. Looks like it is a type of film but how does one remove this without scratching the glass and given the tint seems to go below the window rubbers and suggestions on what to do?
Thanks for any advise!

pa990

i'd say your timt was added by previous user.
Original tinted glass, are Tinted Glass, not a tinted film.

The film will peal straight off, but will leave a messy sticky residue.

search youtube for detailed guides on how to remove it, its best to see the process in action

blond45

me thinks the tinted windows law came into affect on 1st day of april, as to get it of i dont know but im sure when the men get up from the scratcher will let you know:D;).

Darsad

Not up to date on this new rule is this an automatic fail or do they test the opacity of the tint surely there has to be a legal limit

TheColl

Darsad wrote: »

Not up to date on this new rule is this an automatic fail or do they test the opacity of the tint surely there has to be a legal limit

A certain percentage of light must be able to pass through, cant remember the figure.

EDIT: It's 65%

Darsad

Thats in the Uk where the cops carry opaque meters is that the case with the NCT do they actually measure the transparency or just fail if you have tinting fitted!

TheColl

Darsad wrote: »

Thats in the Uk where the cops carry opaque meters is that the case with the NCT do they actually measure the transparency or just fail if you have tinting fitted!

They measure it!

Darsad

OK

A friend of mine was only last week not allowed to do his driving test due to having tinting fitted but they did not measure it , just told he had failed as the tester refused to get into the car and this tint is well within the leagal limit as it is very light !

TheColl

Darsad wrote: »

OK

A friend of mine was only last week not allowed to do his driving test due to having tinting fitted but they did not measure it , just told he had failed as the tester refused to get into the car and this tint is well within the leagal limit as it is very light !

That sounds very harsh alright, never heard of a tester doing something like this. I wouldn't have thought a tester for the driving test would be too bothered about this, as long as it wasn't really dark!

Gumbo

Darsad wrote: »

OK

A friend of mine was only last week not allowed to do his driving test due to having tinting fitted but they did not measure it , just told he had failed as the tester refused to get into the car and this tint is well within the leagal limit as it is very light !

just to let people know, any tint, and i mean any form of tint now fails the NCT if on the drivers or front passenger window.

even the lightist tine available to the tinting companies fails the NCT. the most up to date one is clear to the nakid eye and clear when put on and is only put on to avail of the UV protection as such.

Lex Luthor

kceire wrote: »

just to let people know, any tint, and i mean any form of tint now fails the NCT if on the drivers or front passenger window.

even the lightist tine available to the tinting companies fails the NCT. the most up to date one is clear to the nakid eye and clear when put on and is only put on to avail of the UV protection as such.

thats not true. my windows are tinted to 85% VLT so that will pass.

if you go to aftermarket tinters you need to bear in mind whats on the window already

OP, did they put a meter across the glass to check its light transmission %?

Tefral

kceire wrote: »

just to let people know, any tint, and i mean any form of tint now fails the NCT if on the drivers or front passenger window.

even the lightist tine available to the tinting companies fails the NCT. the most up to date one is clear to the nakid eye and clear when put on and is only put on to avail of the UV protection as such.

Completely False. It must allow 65% light through. I know of 2 cars that have passed the NCT in recent days with tinted front windows.

Incidently, the Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles act 1963 states that you cannot have anythin on your windows that "obscures" your view of the road, so technically you should not have any tint on your front three windows.

Also under the EU regulations brought in by the Car Entry into Service (Amendment) Regulations 2008 it states that your tint must allow 70% light through the front three windows.

Its funny because the NCT has also put a 99dB limit on car exhaust noise and the above act limits it to 74dB.

So the law and the NCT are at odds with each other.

Dangerdunf

If it's a film on the glass it will just peal off. As stated above it will leave glue on your window. Petrol or nail varnish remover on a rag will remove this glue.

giant_midget

heat the window up with a black an decker paint stripper or a good hair dryer then it will peel straight off, Usually it will come off very easily.

Then just use washing up liquid and a blade to clear off the remaining glue.

Gumbo

Lex Luthor wrote: »

thats not true. my windows are tinted to 85% VLT so that will pass.

if you go to aftermarket tinters you need to bear in mind whats on the window already

OP, did they put a meter across the glass to check its light transmission %?

ehh did you not read my post properly? i said that the lightist tint will pass it but it is clear to the eye. can you provide pictures of your car to prove its tinted beyond clear? of course 85% VLT will pass as the NCT rule is 65%, but i bet you its a clear film, and not tinted.

cronin_j wrote: »

Completely False. It must allow 65% light through. I know of 2 cars that have passed the NCT in recent days with tinted front windows.

Incidently, the Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles act 1963 states that you cannot have anythin on your windows that "obscures" your view of the road, so technically you should not have any tint on your front three windows.

Also under the EU regulations brought in by the Car Entry into Service (Amendment) Regulations 2008 it states that your tint must allow 70% light through the front three windows.

Its funny because the NCT has also put a 99dB limit on car exhaust noise and the above act limits it to 74dB.

So the law and the NCT are at odds with each other.

the 2 cars that passed, i find hard to believe that they are tinted tbh. the tinting companies such as Vision FX and Revolution Ireland even say that their lightist tinting does not pass the new NCT rule, only their clear film passes, which is a UV protection as stated in my original post.

people are so quick to jump in with "ha ha, your wrong" but take the tine to read the posts please

peasant

I'm not entirely sure on the exact figures, but even clear glass without any tint has a light transmission of only 92 - 95% or thereabouts.

Clear glass without any factory tint is pretty much extinct on modern cars and most of them have a tint already, reducing light transmission to around 75 % for the lightest tint.

So once you put extra tinting film on top of that you're automatically below the limit even if your tint film label says it's only a 15% tint ...simply because you never start from 100% in the first place.

slimjimmc

kceire wrote: »

ehh did you not read my post properly? i said that the lightist tint will pass it but it is clear to the eye. can you provide pictures of your car to prove its tinted beyond clear? of course 85% VLT will pass as the NCT rule is 85%, but i bet you its a clear film, and not tinted.

kceire wrote: »

people are so quick to jump in with "ha ha, your wrong" but take the tine to read the posts please

Perhaps you should read what you wrote yourself then:

kceire wrote: »

just to let people know, any tint, and i mean any form of tint now fails the NCT if on the drivers or front passenger window.

which is totally incorrect. Tints are allowed on all glass front side windows and even on the windscreen, so long as the VLT is not below 65% ( 65% is the NCT rule not 85% as you also incorrectly stated).
I get what you're saying about some after-market tints not meeting that standard but it doesn't mean that having any tint results in an NCT failure.

S.I. No. 567/2009 — Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2009

Item 10: glass
Reasons for refusal:
: :
(11) glass in windscreen and front side windows has a light transmission level of less than 65%.

Gumbo

slimjimmc wrote: »

Perhaps you should read what you wrote yourself then:
which is totally incorrect. Tints are allowed on all glass front side windows and even on the windscreen, so long as the VLT is not below 65% ( 65% is the NCT rule not 85% as you also incorrectly stated).
I get what you're saying about some after-market tints not meeting that standard but it doesn't mean that having any tint results in an NCT failure.

S.I. No. 567/2009 — Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2009

Which is exactly what I said in my original post. All tint other than the clear tint will fail it. please read my full post and don't quote sections of it.

kceire wrote: »

just to let people know, any tint, and i mean any form of tint now fails the NCT if on the drivers or front passenger window.

even the lightist tine available to the tinting companies fails the NCT. the most up to date one is clear to the nakid eye and clear when put on and is only put on to avail of the UV protection as such.

Gitb1

My windows only let 30% light through and when my car went through the nct last tuesday there was no mention of window tinting on the list of fails, only emissions and lights

slimjimmc

kceire wrote: »

Which is exactly what I said in my original post. All tint other than the clear tint will fail it. please read my full post and don't quote sections of it.

Your first post #10 claims that any tint will fail the NCT (incorrect) and that the available after-market tints fail (correct). Nowhere does it mention that clear tints will pass. It was not until 2 other posters corrected you did you mention clear tint (which is still a tint btw therefore contradicting the 'any tint will fail' claim). You also claimed the NCT spec was 85% but I'll assume this was typo and I commend you on editing your post after you were corrected on this too.

I have read all your posts in their entirety, many times, so I'm very clear on what you have written. It's only in your subsequent posts that you say what you perhaps intended to say originally i.e. that light tints >=65% VLT are ok but dark aftermarket tints <65% VLT are not. On that we are in agreement.

Gitb1 wrote: »

My windows only let 30% light through and when my car went through the nct last tuesday there was no mention of window tinting on the list of fails, only emissions and lights

You were lucky. The new regs came into effect on the 1st April. Did you happen to notice if they measured the tint or not, perhaps they didn't have the equipment yet?

Gitb1

slimjimmc wrote: »

You were lucky. The new regs came into effect on the 1st April. Did you happen to notice if they measured the tint or not, perhaps they didn't have the equipment yet?

I watched the whole test and they never put anything on the window similar to the light tester things that ive seen in pictures and stuff. Rolled the windows down but that was it.

I'm not putting my through again because Im scrapping it but I wonder what would happen if I brought it for a retest now?

david

Gitb1 wrote: »

I watched the whole test and they never put anything on the window similar to the light tester things that ive seen in pictures and stuff. Rolled the windows down but that was it.

I'm not putting my through again because Im scrapping it but I wonder what would happen if I brought it for a retest now?

Well those amendments were made on 1st April so at a guess you'd fail

Gitb1

david wrote: »

Well those amendments were made on 1st April so at a guess you'd fail

Yeah but since it passed the first time (well didnt fail) wouldnt they just check the failed items?

Tefral

kceire wrote: »

the 2 cars that passed, i find hard to believe that they are tinted tbh. the tinting companies such as Vision FX and Revolution Ireland even say that their lightist tinting does not pass the new NCT rule, only their clear film passes, which is a UV protection as stated in my original post.

people are so quick to jump in with "ha ha, your wrong" but take the tine to read the posts please

Believe what you will, but your providing false information. Tinted glass will pass the nct if it allows 65% light transmission, just because a few tint companies you know dont stock the tint doesnt mean they all dont.

Theres a couple of NCT testers on the site i run midnightclub and they will also confirm my previous statement.


OP, in the removal process, in all the cars ive had, its best to just rip the tint off in one quick motion, i find this leaves behind less adhesive. Tar and glue remover on a cloth will then remove the remainder.

Mr Benevolent

That anti-UV tint thing is a bit suspect. No harmful UV light can pass through glass anyway.

Tefral

Confab wrote: »

That anti-UV tint thing is a bit suspect. No harmful UV light can pass through glass anyway.

Do any glass companies make glass that reacts to UV light, like glasses, where they react in the sunlight to darken and then go clear at night time?

E39MSport

I'm a bit worried about this.

My car has tint from the factory but contrary to a previous post, the tint is a film type and not in the glass itself.

It's mentioned on the build sheet as a spec and there's a note in the dash about caring for it.

I want to keep my car as factory spec and don't want to remove the tint. I'm not sure how much light it lets through but it looks quite dark.

I can't imagine that they'd make you modify a factory spec if it was legally allowed on the road in the first instance ?

When this test (tint) was hinted at a few years ago I asked a tester about it and he said it was aimed at boy racers.

Fingers crossed it won't fail....

amurray32

Thanks for all the replies, got drivers window de-tinted last night with a steam cleaner but still left with a lot of glue residue to remove...passanger window tonight!

This was an original feature of this Grand Scenic which is annoying that it can suddenly become an issue 6 years on. The tester was not having any of my plea that it was a car feature.

With regards to the test itself, I don't know what was used to measure the tint but the testers were like flies around the car at one point which I'm guessing was related to the windows.

Makes you wonder what people who spent their days tinting windows will do for a job from now on!

Anyway thanks again for all the advise...not looking forward to the small mirror windows but I guess I should be grateful that it wasn't failed on anything else.

I see a gap in the market for de-tinters!

antodeco

Im going to chance my arm with the car going through the NCT. All four side windows and rear window are tinted. If thats all I fail on, then so be it, but there could be a few other "minor" things. If it fails, Ill try remove it all in one go. Could I get the corner of a blade and scrape it off?

peasant

amurray32 wrote: »

This was an original feature of this Grand Scenic which is annoying that it can suddenly become an issue 6 years on. The tester was not having any of my plea that it was a car feature.

It couldn't have been ...international standards only allow for a light transmission > 70% on front side windows

Standard Requirements in terms of light transmission
ECE R43

WindscreenLT > 75%

Side windows forward of the B-pillar (in the driver's direct field of view)LT > 70%

Behind the B-pillar No value if a 2nd exterior mirror is mounted (otherwise LT must be 70%)

http://www.sekurit.com/en/index.asp?nav1=GC&fn=glass_eng_certi.html

Hagar

/edited/

E39MSport

hmmmm .....

Gumbo

cronin_j wrote: »

Believe what you will, but your providing false information. Tinted glass will pass the nct if it allows 65% light transmission, just because a few tint companies you know dont stock the tint doesnt mean they all dont.

Theres a couple of NCT testers on the site i run midnightclub and they will also confirm my previous statement.

no need to confirm, its the law and common knowledge, but my point was that any tint that passes the NCT is not dark, it will be clear to the eye.

thats why i would like to see pictures of any car that passes the NCT with the fron two windows tinted, my opinion is they will ne be dark, just a clear fim on it. the tint is there as a UV protection and not to darken as such!

Lex Luthor

kceire wrote: »

can you provide pictures of your car to prove its tinted beyond clear?

its easy enough to tell. Just roll your window down half way, look above and below the glass and you will see a difference between the 2

Gumbo

Lex Luthor wrote: »

its easy enough to tell. Just roll your window down half way, look above and below the glass and you will see a difference between the 2

i know, thats not my point. my point is that to pass the 65% VLT test the film used will be clear, and not dark like the traditional "tinted windows" look.

peasant

Lex Luthor wrote: »

its easy enough to tell. Just roll your window down half way, look above and below the glass and you will see a difference between the 2

Even clear glass with no tint at all will show a difference as even clear glass does not have 100% light transmission but only 90% or so.

But most modern cars already have tinted glass on them (as in the tint is in the glass, not in a separate film. Usually the look slightly green-ish) and in that case they would have a light transmission of around 75%.

Lex Luthor

Gitb1 wrote: »

I watched the whole test and they never put anything on the window similar to the light tester things that ive seen in pictures and stuff. Rolled the windows down but that was it.

so how did they say your car was below 65% VLT without taking an actual measurement?

Have the NCT testers been given any extra equipment to test the glass because if they haven't and they are just going on a 'best guess I think its below 65%' then its a load of b0!!0x. I'd want to see a meter on the glass with a reading before I'd accept it failed.

Lex Luthor

peasant wrote: »

Even clear glass with no tint at all will show a difference as even clear glass does not have 100% light transmission but only 90% or so.

But most modern cars already have tinted glass on them (as in the tint is in the glass, not in a separate film. Usually the look slightly green-ish) and in that case they would have a light transmission of around 75%.

I know what you mean but there is a bigger difference between my car window and clear light and my house window and clear light. I was told by Vision that most "factory" tints are about 85%'ish but it really depends on the manufacturer

Tigger

if they test something they should give the tested figure as in brake imbalance 20% only x% allowed
exhaust hcl 22ppm only xppm allowed
so was a light transmittance figure given?

Fol20

jesusinaglanza wrote: »

heat the window up with a black an decker paint stripper or a good hair dryer then it will peel straight off, Usually it will come off very easily.

Then just use washing up liquid and a blade to clear off the remaining glue.

This should work..did it myself

Matt Simis

cronin_j wrote: »

Do any glass companies make glass that reacts to UV light, like glasses, where they react in the sunlight to darken and then go clear at night time?

I wondered that too:

Photo-chromatic
The largest limitation in using PC technology is that the materials cannot be made stable enough to withstand thousands of hours of outdoor exposure so long-term outdoor applications are not appropriate at this time.

This is more promising and has some Auto applications already, but I suspect the cost is extreme:

SmartGlass
The new Boeing 787 Dreamliner features electrochromic windows which replace the pull down window shades on existing aircraft. NASA is looking into using electrochromics to manage the thermal environment experienced by the newly developed Orion and Altair space vehicles.

Smart glass has been used in some small-production cars. The Ferrari 575 M Superamerica had an electrochromic roof as standard, and the Maybach has a PDLC roof as option. Some Polyvision Privacy Glass has been applied in the Maybach 62 car for privacy protection purposes.

Looks more like an LCD than a glass tint though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3CFTh2-ljQ

Lex Luthor

Tigger wrote: »

if they test something they should give the tested
so was a light transmittance figure given?

exactly....some pleb saying "its passed" or "its failed" just because he perseves it to be below or above 65% is not a test IMO.

Thats like a guard saying I clocked you at 88km/h, I don't have my gun with me but I've seen a car doing 88 before and you're nicked...:rolleyes:

Cosmo K

Lex Luthor wrote: »

exactly....some pleb saying "its passed" or "its failed" just because he perseves it to be below or above 65% is not a test IMO.

Thats like a guard saying I clocked you at 88km/h, I don't have my gun with me but I've seen a car doing 88 before and you're nicked...:rolleyes:

One of the plebs here.......All NCT centers got brand new window tint testers 2 weeks ago.......and yes, they are all calibrated, to answer your next question.

E39MSport

Cosmo K wrote: »

One of the plebs here.......All NCT centers got brand new window tint testers 2 weeks ago.......and yes, they are all calibrated, to answer your next question.

Hi. Same apply for factory tints? My 1991 8 has film tints from the factory and I'll be mighty upset if I have to modify it.
Cheers.

Cosmo K

Are your front windows tinted as well? I always thought, factory tint was only available for the rear windows?

E39MSport

Cosmo K wrote: »

Are your front windows tinted as well? I always thought, factory tint was only available for the rear windows?

You might have a point there. Not sure. Previous owner could have matched them up. Build sheet doesn't stipulate which windows. I'll find out from learned owners. Ta.

Edit: in answer, yeah, they're also tinted.

Anan1

cronin_j wrote: »

Do any glass companies make glass that reacts to UV light, like glasses, where they react in the sunlight to darken and then go clear at night time?

That wouldn't be safe if, for example, you drove from bright sunlight into an unlit tunnel.

Gumbo

Cosmo K wrote: »

Are your front windows tinted as well? I always thought, factory tint was only available for the rear windows?

this is my chain of thought, i have never seen a factory fitted tint on the drivers and fron passengers window.

im not saying they dont exist, but i have never seen or heard of it before.

and by tint i mean a darker than clear film.

Lex Luthor

Cosmo K wrote: »

One of the plebs here.......All NCT centers got brand new window tint testers 2 weeks ago.......and yes, they are all calibrated, to answer your next question.

exellent...we at least have someone that can answer a few questions as it wasn't clear from the OP if the car was actually tested using an actual tester

How do the testers work? Do you have to roll down the window and test the light passing across the glass?

kceire wrote: »

this is my chain of thought, i have never seen a factory fitted tint on the drivers and fron passengers window.

im not saying they dont exist, but i have never seen or heard of it before.

and by tint i mean a darker than clear film.

maybe not a film, but some companies car windows come with a slight "tint" that is probably impregnated or sputtered onto the glass

peasant

Lex Luthor wrote: »

maybe not a film, but some companies car windows come with a slight "tint" that is probably impregnated or sputtered onto the glass

Most cars these days come with factory tinted glass. This glass has a slight green tinge usually. The tint is in the glass, not on it.
Basically they throw a few spoonfuls of green goodness into the melting pot when they make the glass ...like your green or brown glass bottles, only slightly more controlled and somewhat less of it.

Cosmo K

The TintMan in action!

The machine, all new and shiny:



This is how it works, a sensor is attached to each side of the window, which measures the opacity of the glass. We used an untinted window here:



Now one simply presses the button (there is only one button!), and......tatatadadaa....the result appears in the display.