Fianna Fail's new leader, who do you choose

moonpurple

I suggest Michael Martin and if he does not want the job: (LOL) Mary Hanafin
:cool:

Dannyboy83

I would like to see someone dismantle the current organisation and build it back up into a credible, non-corrupt party.

I'm not certain who could do that, but I believe Michael Martin would be the best chance they've got.

(There would have to be a serious cull; not sure if Martin has the guts for doing that)

moonpurple

I think Michael Martin could grow into the Job, he seems to be growing less afraid of mr Cowen and his buddies, for example when he summoned the papal nuncio to stephans green

he just needs to tell the the upper shannon kitchen cabinet*, to shut up and sit down for a while

(that would be Mr. Cowen, Mr. Dempsey and the lady from Donegal and the new elmo figure Darrach all over the radio from the north west as well)

the smoking ban/fix the northern nutters side of fianna fail needs to reassert itself:cool:

seligehgit

There are not too many stand out candidates but without a doubt if Brian Lenihan is well enough he is the obvious candidate.He has taken the tough decisions that Cowan has baulked at taking in terms of bringing some modicum of control on the government finances.He is quite a good media communicator unlike the aforementioned leader.The other candidate who springs to mind is Mary Hanafin,my mind boggles as to why such a capable performer was demoted in the recent reshuffle.She handled taking some tough decisions in social welfare extremely well and is a very effective communicator.I can not see Michael Martin entering the equation,the sum of his achievements is the Smoking Ban which to be fair to him has been a resounding success.However in Health and Education he had plenty of money to improve these services through real structural and policy change but he did not deliver.At present he is doing an effective job in foreign affairs but this nonetheless does'nt convince he has the economic credentials or leadership qualities necessary to become leader.Perhaps the dark horse shall be a certain Dermot Ahern?:D

moonpurple

Mary Hanafin was demoted as she is clearly leader replacement material, - Mr. Lenihen needs to just deal with his personal illness and stop allowing himself be a shield for Mr. Cowen in the Dail, which only makes his recovery harder, if mr Cowen picks a successor I bet he sets up Dermot Ahern, :cool:

mike65

Mary Hanafin must have a chance, she is called Mary which deffo seems quite popular with voters and being a woman would have the upper hand in any media led arguement. She also seems untainted and reasonably competent.

Won't get the job then....

moonpurple

mary hanafin seems to have a sense of right and wrong which makes her tougher than anyone around the cabinet table, she is also at a remove from the cute brown envelope hoor era, she is also returned by the voters of south Dublin where difference is not very threatening

ah heck..it is time that south dublin provided a taoiseach..after all it was the one location that yes to the first lisbon trial referendum:cool:

the tradition in FF is not waiting for the leader job, one siezes it

aidan24326

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I would like to see someone dismantle the current organisation and build it back up into a credible, non-corrupt party.

I'm not certain who could do that, but I believe Michael Martin would be the best chance they've got.

(There would have to be a serious cull; not sure if Martin has the guts for doing that)

Highly unlikely that he has. Martin is too much part of the current establishment to do anything like a major cull. You'd find it would probably be just business as usual. Fianna Fail won't change their ways anytime soon, not while the current crowd are in situ anyway.

patmar wrote: »

News for you lot, we in FF look after our own and dont need ABFF telling us what to do.

And you know damn well that it's this Fianna Fail policy of 'looking after our own' that is a big part of the reason why we're in a mess now, and it's that kind of arrogant attitude that makes people sick to death of FF and all their cronies. Party first, country second seems to be the FF way.

Cowen will be leader of FF as long as he likes, kindly remember when the going gets tough the tough get going

That's kinda hilarious, though also slightly scary that you actually seem to believe this stuff. You sound like a graduate of some Fianna Fail propaganda course taught by Bertie Ahern.

The_Minister

Brian Lenihan if he's well enough.

trapsagenius

daithicarr wrote: »

with modern science we could clone Dev and make him our glorious leader as he did so much for the country......

Please tell me this isn't an attempt at being sarcastic...

The_Minister wrote: »

Brian Lenihan if he's well enough.

Yeah I'd back Lenihan or Martin to be a good leader.

sceptre

Hey folks. Kindly note the little /mod at the end of this post as it'll remind you that this is a moderator information and instruction post. Cheers.

I've deleted about ten posts from this thread. If you don't have an opinion, don't decide this thread is a chance to insert either anti-FF or pro-FF rhetoric. The point of the thread is who you would choose as FF leader if they were choosing a new one. Not your own hilarity about bombers, cloning or whatever else washes down a few beers for you. Some of you are inserting that pro- or con- rhetoric in every thread imaginable as much as you can and it won't be tolerated. Posting about how FF are finished or how they'll rise again is nothing to do with the topic. If you don't have an opinion on the actual question, don't spend a hundred words not offering one and instead going off on one. It'll be deleted and you will be issued a warning at the very least. Some of you are taking the proverbial at this point and this is neither the soapboxing forum nor the idiotic comedy forum. There are other political forums on the Internet for that kind of thing, keep it there instead. This one is a generally serious forum for discussing politics within the reasonable lines of a thread topic and like lots of the forum members, we'd like to keep it that way. I don't see any point in being fluffy about it.

/mod

If you have a view on the thread question, you can add it and you're very welcome to do so. Otherwise, save your typing energy.

pjmn

Brian Lenihan - but he will need to concentrate on his illness first...

Mary Hanafin - second...

thereafter, not much to choose from I'm afraid...

maynooth_rules

Mary Hanafin would be the only one in the current shower in Fianna Fail that I would have respect for, and I could see her being a fine leader.
I think Martin would be a disaster. His media appearances do my head in. He rarely answers the question, instead constanly saying 'Can I just say' and going off to talk about what he wants, rather than sticking to the question. Must have learned a bit off the 'great' Bertie

Kiwi_knock

Who would I like it to be: Mary Hanafin or Micheal Martin
Who do I think it will be: Batt O'Keefe or Dermot Ahern

The latter two are being groomed to lead the party while the former two are being sidelined.

serfboard

1. Brian Lenihan
2. Mary Hanafin
3. Pat Carey

seligehgit wrote: »

I can not see Michael Martin entering the equation ... At present he is doing an effective job in foreign affairs but this nonetheless does'nt convince he has the economic credentials or leadership qualities necessary to become leader.

He's doing an effective job in Foreign Affairs because he's a waffler, and it's the perfect portfolio for him!

I'd say he fancies his chances though.

The_Minister

serfboard wrote: »

3. Pat Carey

The more I hear from that man the more I like, and I was delighted when he was promoted in the last shuffle, but I don't think he has the profile.

deadhead13

I was under the impression, maybe wrongly, that Mary Hanafin was demoted from being the Minister for Education because she preformed badly while head of that department. I particularly remember a savaging she got from Rory Quinn in the Dail at the time. Yet she is invariable refer to these days as "competent".

Dave!

Brian Lenihan would be the natural choice, hopefully he manages to get over his illness just after the next general election!

yoshytoshy

I like Brian Lenihan ,he's direct and honest.

Seth Brundle

Any member of FF who was in cabinet with Bertie and did not question his pathetic excuses is not 'clean' enough to transform the party.

jmayo

sceptre wrote: »

Hey folks. Kindly note the little /mod at the end of this post as it'll remind you that this is a moderator information and instruction post. Cheers.

I've deleted about ten posts from this thread. If you don't have an opinion, don't decide this thread is a chance to insert either anti-FF or pro-FF rhetoric. The point of the thread is who you would choose as FF leader if they were choosing a new one. Not your own hilarity about bombers, cloning or whatever else washes down a few beers for you. Some of you are inserting that pro- or con- rhetoric in every thread imaginable as much as you can and it won't be tolerated. Posting about how FF are finished or how they'll rise again is nothing to do with the topic. If you don't have an opinion on the actual question, don't spend a hundred words not offering one and instead going off on one. It'll be deleted and you will be issued a warning at the very least. Some of you are taking the proverbial at this point and this is neither the soapboxing forum nor the idiotic comedy forum. There are other political forums on the Internet for that kind of thing, keep it there instead. This one is a generally serious forum for discussing politics within the reasonable lines of a thread topic and like lots of the forum members, we'd like to keep it that way. I don't see any point in being fluffy about it.

/mod

If you have a view on the thread question, you can add it and you're very welcome to do so. Otherwise, save your typing energy.

I humbly suggest sceptre as the future leader of ff.
Afterall he is filtering the general public's opinion of their current possibles.

Not sure if he is member, but that can be taken care much like the catholic church used to do with popes.

As for lenihan and honesty. :rolleyes:
Perhaps he will furnish the taxpayer with information as to what happened the night of thebank guarantee. :mad:

zootroid

After facing down the unions in the last budget, Lenihan went up in my estimation. However, the recent recapitalisations of the banks have made me think that we're not being told everything, so he's gone back down. I think he will be next in line, but had more respect for him when the budget came out.

moonpurple wrote: »

mary hanafin seems to have a sense of right and wrong which makes her tougher than anyone around the cabinet table, she is also at a remove from the cute brown envelope hoor era, she is also returned by the voters of south Dublin where difference is not very threatening

ah heck..it is time that south dublin provided a taoiseach..after all it was the one location that yes to the first lisbon trial referendum:cool:

the tradition in FF is not waiting for the leader job, one siezes it

I'm pretty sure Carlow Kilkenny voted yes too, albeit marginally. Actually I think there were a couple more too

ninty9er

I've sent a mod report on one post in the hope that we can get back to the point made by Sceptre earlier that this thread is about who you want to see as FF leader.

I pick Hanafin. As a member I've long been an admirer of her ability to communicate and her ability to energise a crowd.

Hanafin is to Ireland what Angie is to Germany and I think Ireland wants a mother now.

The people don't want to see a specialist leader, they don't want an economist at the helm, they don't want someone who's been great in finance, they want someone who's a good all rounder who can lead a team.

As popular as Hanafin is with sections of the grassroots and the public:
A) The older elements of the party don't see a woman at the head;
A lot of younger members don't like the schoolmistress image she conveys (though personally I think the public would find it re-assuring to be spoken to with particular emphasis on making the message understandable to all);
C) Although she'd win a popular vote, she won't win a parliamentary party vote, and on this, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

If the public wants Hanafin, then the public will have to get on to its local Fianna Fáil units, even join those local units and put pressure on their TDs and Senators to vote for the Taoiseach they want.

I have no doubt that she could do it, and the reason behind that is that she can adapt to any brief, but more importantly, she knows to leave baggage behind.

The only reason she was demoted, btw, is that there is a deep personal rift between herself and Brian Cowen. The only reason she's still in cabinet at all is because he knows that she's a solid performer.

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote: »

The only reason she was demoted, btw, is that there is a deep personal rift between herself and Brian Cowen. The only reason she's still in cabinet at all is because he knows that she's a solid performer.

So despite a fairly common consensus about Hanafin's abilities, you are effectively suggesting that Cowen has picked a cabinet based on political allegiances and leadership security rather than for the good of the nation.

Personally I have disliked Hanafin since her stance towards children with autism. Couple this with her stubborn refusal to give up her permanent place as a teacher (so she presumably earns money over what she pays her substitute, she keeps her pension (which will be a nice compliment to her TDs and ministers pension) and also keeps someone who wants to teach out of a permnent position at a time when we are trying to increase employment).
However, I've no doubt that she would be a far better leader than the man currently taking up the Taoiseach's space (I know, I know, its misleading to call Cowen a leader).

paddyland

Appointing someone leader because they are 'better than Cowen' is no recommendation whatsoever. I remember Hanafin's track record over the past few years, and I find her arrogant and divisive. She might be the kind of leader to appeal to a certain sector of society, but she in no way is a leader to unite the country behind her. Personally speaking, I find her smug and dismissive.

As far as leader of Fianna Fáil, the few supporters left can have whoever they please. But as leader of the country, there is nobody in that party at present who I could stomach. They are all part of the Bertie system, and there needs to be a sweeping change, to completely break and disassociate that party from the corruption that has dogged them for years. There is nobody in the front ranks of FF that I would find credible to instigate that sweeping change either.

Roll on an election.

Seth Brundle

paddyland wrote: »

there needs to be a sweeping change, to completely break and disassociate that party from the corruption that has dogged them for years. There is nobody in the front ranks of FF that I would find credible to instigate that sweeping change either.

If FF were to effectively set up a renewed party by dissociating from its perceived history of corruption, then there would be nobody left.

Actually, it may be a good idea.

sceptre

I've deleted the offtopic stuff as well as the bulk of the recent amateur bad comedians. Catholic church hidey hidey collusion, Ardnacrusha and Robert Mugabe aren't particularly ontopic and there was an earlier request (/mod bit). I don't want to be FF leader or pope, despite the single suggestion, I don't have the right background nor do I propose to fake it.

I could take Martin or Lenihan, health depending. Or preferably a new young turk with abilities to swap old lamps for new, though that's a rank and file operation comparable to what Ataturk did in Turkey mind you. I don't particularly rate Hanafin, despite having high regard for her late husband Eamon Leahy. It still wouldn't convert me to a supporter but that wasn't part of the question.

ocokev

With Mary Harney thinking of rejoining FF then she would have to get my vote for the leadership.
Her political CV is second to none and has also been a leader in her own party.
No better person for the job.

jpfahy

ocokev wrote: »

With Mary Harney thinking of rejoining FF then she would have to get my vote for the leadership.
Her political CV is second to none and has also been a leader in her own party.
No better person for the job.

Her CV is second to none right enough, perhaps the most useless Minister in the current government.

paddyland

ocokev wrote: »

With Mary Harney thinking of rejoining FF then she would have to get my vote for the leadership.
Her political CV is second to none and has also been a leader in her own party.
No better person for the job.

You would suggest one of the most politically damaged people in the history of the state as next leader of FF?

Maybe there is method in your madness...

patmar

As a member of Fianna Fail I see this thread as pointless idle speculation. Brian Cowen is the leader of our party and will be for the forseeable future. I believe Brian Cowen is showing bravery and determination in dealing with complex economic problems

Dannyboy83

patmar wrote: »

As a member of Fianna Fail I see this thread as pointless idle speculation.
Brian Cowen is the leader of our party and will be for the forseeable future.

There will have to be a new leader by 2012 at the latest.
It may be sooner.
So it may be speculation, but it's not idle.

All the FF insiders have accepted that FF will be massacred.
Who would you like to see take over the party?

I believe Brian Cowen is showing bravery and determination in dealing with complex economic problems

I am interested to know why you believe this and please give some examples.

(I am not being sarcastic, the FF bashing is boring already, I want to try
and understand why a person would still believe this when all other indicators say otherwise)

Sleepy

I can't see any leadership potential in the front bench and I'm not familiar enough with the back benchers to pick one of them. My understanding is that most are of the Willie O' Dea "good local politician" mould which, imho, rules most of them out of the running...

McDowell makes a good poster boy but I don't think he's got the chops to be leader, Hanafin would destroy the parties chances of getting votes from the under 30's, Lenihan is too heavily tied into Cowen to be seen as clean enough to scrub the decks, Ahern seems to be more focused on curtailing personal liberties than anything of import for a leader, O' Dea is disgraced (and useless anyway)... there honestly doesn't seem to be anyone up to the job within the parliamentary party. Which explains Cowen, I guess.

maynooth_rules

patmar wrote: »

As a member of Fianna Fail I see this thread as pointless idle speculation. Brian Cowen is the leader of our party and will be for the forseeable future. I believe Brian Cowen is showing bravery and determination in dealing with complex economic problems

All hail the great Biffo. We really should be so so thankful for this fantastic 'bravery' he has shown:rolleyes:.

bladespin

patmar wrote: »

As a member of Fianna Fail I see this thread as pointless idle speculation. Brian Cowen is the leader of our party and will be for the forseeable future. I believe Brian Cowen is showing bravery and determination in dealing with complex economic problems

Brian Lenihan would get my vote.

Don't see Mr.Cowen showing anything much at all, hence the speculation of who might do a better job.

IrishTonyO

patmar wrote: »

As a member of Fianna Fail I see this thread as pointless idle speculation. Brian Cowen is the leader of our party and will be for the forseeable future. I believe Brian Cowen is showing bravery and determination in dealing with complex economic problems

Well if you see the thread as pointless why post? why not just ignore it

But I really don't know who would make a good new leader for Fianna Fail, they all seem to be from the same outdated mould

McNulty32

Gerry Adams, as there is no difference between him and anyone in Fianna Fail presently.

The_Minister

patmar wrote: »

As a member of Fianna Fail I see this thread as pointless idle speculation. Brian Cowen is the leader of our party and will be for the forseeable future. I believe Brian Cowen is showing bravery and determination in dealing with complex economic problems

Stop trolling, it's obvious you aren't actually in FF.

Sleepy wrote: »

McDowell makes a good poster boy but I don't think he's got the chops to be leader,

McDowell?
As in Michael McDowell?

He'd be in FG if anywhere.

Seth Brundle

jpfahy wrote: »

Her CV is second to none right enough, perhaps the most useless Minister in the current government.

Although he is now gone, you are forgetting about Cullen. And Roche! And Ó Cuív!
And lets not forget Coughlan.
And...

Sleepy

The_Minister wrote: »

McDowell?
As in Michael McDowell?

He'd be in FG if anywhere.

Sorry, meant Martin...

RayM

Presuming that they're going to lose the next general election, I think it would be in the national interest to have Mary Coughlan take over as leader. I feel that she'd take the party in (what I would regard as) the right direction, going forward.

Facetiousness aside, Brian Lenihan seems to be the only prominent FF member who could realistically lead the party after Cowen. If he's not well enough, I can see them going the same way as the UK Conservatives in 1997. Several mediocre and interim leaders for at least a decade.

The_Minister

Sleepy wrote: »

Sorry, meant Martin...

I was wondering:)

View

Noel Dempsey. He, at least, seems prepared to consider reforms as he makes new suggestions from time to time. Most of the others don't seem interested in the idea at all.

Seth Brundle

Dempsey? I'd rather have Harney!

MysNthR0p3

Personally I'd like to see FF go the way of the PDs. Actually I'd like to see all the current political parties go the way of the PDs (nutty as that sounds).

I've known Pat Carey for 20 years, since he was in CDVEC. So I think he should lead FF. That way I know I'll get one of the above wishes.

blinding

Who is the biggest fraudster presently in Prison.

He could step in seamlessly !

Essexboy

Ned O'Keefe would appeal to traditional FF voters.

We do not want foreigners in here”, the bould Corkman said in the Dail on Tuesday. “Michael Collins, Liam Lynch, Patrick Pearse, James Connolly, would not have those foreigners running our business. It is about time we looked after our Irish people who are well educated."
http://www.businessandfinance.ie/blog_post.jsp?blogID=15&a=3298

(Note: Pearse's father was English and Connolly was born in Scotland!)

cremeegg

frank fahy from galway west is a td i have always admired... honest hardworking and could be a dark horse...

Seth Brundle

cremeegg wrote: »

frank fahy from galway west is a td i have always admired... honest hardworking and could be a dark horse...

:eek:

blinding

This guy would be well qualified.

cremeegg

kbannon wrote: »

:eek: