Nurse Recruitment - National Joke

Dr Galen

the factors behind why we have more nurses per capita are varied tbh. An over reliance on acute care, and under reliance on primary care being one, and probably the most relevant. We also have a totally inadequate system for delegating tasks and responsibilities to other healthcare workers. This is the same problem for doctors, where we have docs doing jobs that nurse are well able to take on and do. We also need to take into account the types of hospitals we have in this country and the geographical spread of the facilities. We have lots of small, local hospitals compared with say the UK or France, who have less of these and more of the "centre of excellence " type facilities. Scales of economy and all that.

Your point regarding re-training of nurses is only somewhat valid really. The only thing a psych nurse, and ID (or whatever they are called these days ) and a general nurse have in common is the title nurse at the end of their job title. The roles, responsibilities and duties of each strand of nursing have been diverging for years, and thats not just here but across the world. The engineering analogy is a decent one, but doesn't really go far enough tbh. They are very distinct jobs with very distinct ways of working. Making it easier for people to transfer from one to another would be a good idea though, as I know people who woud want to do this. It would not be a solution to the core issue though.

nursextreme

murphaph wrote: »

Sorry, but that's not a reason to hire you.

Lots and lots and lots of grads (who have also been educated at the taxpayers' expense) in all sorts of disciplines will leave college with no job top walk into.

"Those damn greedy students over the last few year have a lot to answer for, ruining our economy and with their massive student loans, which they used to speculate on property portfolios and development land."

We should stop educating altogether, that would save the Taxpayer a fortune!

sceptre

nursextreme wrote: »

"Those damn greedy students over the last few year have a lot to answer for, ruining our economy and with their massive student loans, which they used to speculate on property portfolios and development land."

We should stop educating altogether, that would save the Taxpayer a fortune!

Missing the point I'm afraid. Neither an education nor a qualification entitle anyone to a job. Of any sort. They tend to make it more likely that someone can get a job in a particular field and perhaps at a particular level (and both of those are good things) but that's all. That's unfortunate but that's reality.

nursextreme

sceptre wrote: »

Missing the point I'm afraid. Neither an education nor a qualification entitle anyone to a job. Of any sort. They tend to make it more likely that someone can get a job in a particular field and perhaps at a particular level (and both of those are good things) but that's all. That's unfortunate but that's reality.

If you go back to my OP the point I am making is that: both time and money were wasted with the National Recruitment Drive.
Apparently we are over run with nurses anyway.

I do not believe qualification entitles anyone to a job.

I currently have a job - working in the area that I trained, earning 50% more than I should be getting for that job.

I didn't set out to do Mental Health Nursing for the money, I would rather earn less money and have a job where I can use my training in a more efficient way as opposed to working in a mercenary type role where I am limited to what I can do because I am only an agency nurse.

I cant believe that people think this whole recruitment issue is a Black or White issue.

murphaph

nursextreme wrote: »

If you go back to my OP the point I am making is that: both time and money were wasted with the National Recruitment Drive.
Apparently we are over run with nurses anyway.

I do not believe qualification entitles anyone to a job.

I currently have a job - working in the area that I trained, earning 50% more than I should be getting for that job.

I didn't set out to do Mental Health Nursing for the money, I would rather earn less money and have a job where I can use my training in a more efficient way as opposed to working in a mercenary type role where I am limited to what I can do because I am only an agency nurse.

I cant believe that people think this whole recruitment issue is a Black or White issue.

We don't, but those of us outside the HSE can see it's a mess that needs top down reform. This means pain in the short to medium to term to deliver a quality, integrated sytstem (where the left hand knows what the right hand is doing) in the longer term. We MUST stop the firefighting approach (ie, hiring people without looking at what other people are actually doing). McCarthy said the HSE has app. 6000 staff that could be let go if redeployment was in place. These 6000 staff (presumably mostly in admin and management roles) are sucking money out of the system (as are the generally inflated wages when compared to the UK etc.) and if they could be removed then there would be funds freed up to hire, retrain whatever the right nurse for the right departments.

I fear however that the HSE is unreformable. These 6000 wasters in there hide behind their unions which all HSE staff pay for. The good HSE staff financially defend the wasters and prevent the reform they probably want to see themselves.

L00045934

Its a complete mess. I done my interview and picked a specific area that I would like to work in as my preference. I picked this area as I was currently working in the hospital there and have now been working there for 10 months. I recently found out that this hospital (the panel) has been removed from the area as it is a different type of nursing. It was offered to a completely different set of people even though I was on the panel for this hospital. In the mean time, I got offered permanency in a different hospital and was advised to take it and so I have. Very confusing and disappointed.

nursextreme

I can believe it. I got expression of interest offers for 38 positions in the Dublin area, a region i never applied to work in on the panel. Some where even in the ID sector. Of course not a bean down here where 30 of us are working agency and costing the Service a fortune. I have expressed an interest in the dublin positions because I dont know what the future has in store, no firm offers though.
If the panel was working by its crazy rules, I would gather that Everyone on the panels in Dublin turned down these 38 positions - somehow I don't think so. I just more inefficient pen pushers calling the shot, and making up the rules as they go along - typical of the HSE structure as a whole. :mad:

L00045934

I was offered an expression of interest in March for the place I'm working in. I was out by three positions on the panel. HSE decide that this hospital should be recruited differently because its different nursing and I don't get offered. It was offered to the national panel. I got offered a different place in the recent expressions of interest. I feel totally shafted! I realllllly don't want to leave where I'm working. I love it so much.

tinner777

i don't know if you got a job nurse extreme but things in my place are about to collapse. We haven't been allowed to replace anyone, give temp contracts or use agency for six months. Last week we had three nurses instead of seven. A couple of nights ago we couldn't special a young suicidal man as we did not have the staff. During the summer we had to ask forth year students to cover and paid them with time due. The level of care being given is plummeting as nurses spend their day between different specials as there's no cover. Old fellas being left in bed as we've no time to get them up before breakfast. I've never been so concerned working on a mental health unit, i actually dread going to work these days, i hate being in charge when i dont feel safe. God knows how the patients must feel.

nursextreme

tinner777 wrote: »

i don't know if you got a job nurse extreme but things in my place are about to collapse. We haven't been allowed to replace anyone, give temp contracts or use agency for six months. Last week we had three nurses instead of seven. A couple of nights ago we couldn't special a young suicidal man as we did not have the staff. During the summer we had to ask forth year students to cover and paid them with time due. The level of care being given is plummeting as nurses spend their day between different specials as there's no cover. Old fellas being left in bed as we've no time to get them up before breakfast. I've never been so concerned working on a mental health unit, i actually dread going to work these days, i hate being in charge when i dont feel safe. God knows how the patients must feel.

The standards are dropping all round, people dont see this untill its their relative that is left without care - things are going to get worse. Still hanging on to agency here, 90% of the staff compliment in the Acute unit some days. Still not a single contract in nearly 3 years now.

galway2007

Australia is take them and regards Irish nurses as of a very high standard
They start on €30 k a year and get the following shift premium
10% for working 10am to 1 pm
12.5% for working 1pm to 4pm
15% for working 4 pm to 4am
Time and half for working weekends
Time and three quarters for Sundays
They don’t have to put up with the social issues that are in Ireland and best of all they have a better standard of living and the sun
So all nurses should give the 2 fingers to HARNEY and the Irish people and head to oz

irishh_bob

galway2007 wrote: »

Australia is take them and regards Irish nurses as of a very high standard
They start on €30 k a year and get the following shift premium
10% for working 10am to 1 pm
12.5% for working 1pm to 4pm
15% for working 4 pm to 4am
Time and half for working weekends
Time and three quarters for Sundays
They don’t have to put up with the social issues that are in Ireland and best of all they have a better standard of living and the sun
So all nurses should give the 2 fingers to HARNEY and the Irish people and head to oz

dont let the door hit thier arses on the way out , plenty of people willing to replace those sacred cows , nursing has always been a well paid job in ireland

nursextreme

irishh_bob wrote: »

dont let the door hit thier arses on the way out , plenty of people willing to replace those sacred cows , nursing has always been a well paid job in ireland

The sacred cows wont be the ones on the way out Bob as you know. The whole point is up to recently there was plenty of people willing to replace the older higher paid "dead wood" nurses. Unfortunately when the dust eventually settles in post apocalyptic ireland, there actually wont be anyone to replace the ones who have retired on their lump sums and pensions. We are already gone.

dan_d

I've not gone through this thread, but it seems the most apt place to post this.

http://www.recruitireland.com/job/calling-all-greek-doctors-dublin-city-centre/14392709/

I am absolutely speechless at this ad. On so many levels. SO many levels.Christ, can someone please just pull that whole organisation to bits? It's an absolute shambles.Give me a month to sort the HSE, and I'd go through the whole lot of them so fast they wouldn't know whether they were standing or sitting. It makes me so angry.

Amhran Nua

nursextreme wrote: »

Unfortunately when the dust eventually settles in post apocalyptic ireland, there actually wont be anyone to replace the ones who have retired on their lump sums and pensions. We are already gone.

Didn't something like that already happen, and they brought in a load of Filipino nurses?

nursextreme

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Didn't something like that already happen, and they brought in a load of Filipino nurses?

Spot on! At on stage we had 5000 Filipino and 5000 India Nurses working here, a large amount remain today. Cant really blame them they held the services together for a few years. It just highlight the lack of insight and forward planning in our health and education services.

nursextreme

dan_d wrote: »

I've not gone through this thread, but it seems the most apt place to post this.

http://www.recruitireland.com/job/calling-all-greek-doctors-dublin-city-centre/14392709/

I am absolutely speechless at this ad. On so many levels. SO many levels.Christ, can someone please just pull that whole organisation to bits? It's an absolute shambles.Give me a month to sort the HSE, and I'd go through the whole lot of them so fast they wouldn't know whether they were standing or sitting. It makes me so angry.

At least the greeks will feel at home with our shambolic nation, considering their own mess of an ecomomy

ZYX

dan_d wrote: »

I've not gone through this thread, but it seems the most apt place to post this.

http://www.recruitireland.com/job/calling-all-greek-doctors-dublin-city-centre/14392709/

I am absolutely speechless at this ad. On so many levels. SO many levels.Christ, can someone please just pull that whole organisation to bits? It's an absolute shambles.Give me a month to sort the HSE, and I'd go through the whole lot of them so fast they wouldn't know whether they were standing or sitting. It makes me so angry.

I am not quite sure what your problem is with this ad. This is a private company trying to recruit doctors. Of course they will say they have a wide variety of jobs available. That does not mean they actually do. Look at every recruitment agency, for whatever job. All of them will say they have jobs to fill. You can take it for granted they are all lying. The reason CPL are trying to recruit in Greece is so they can offer them cheap wages.

raymenta

im just thinking about going to the local mechanic,, to fix my broken arm, what you reckom,. or maybe i will bring my car to the local gp for a service,

nursextreme

raymenta wrote: »

im just thinking about going to the local mechanic,, to fix my broken arm, what you reckom,. or maybe i will bring my car to the local gp for a service,

I hear the HSE are going to bring in a scrappage deal to cope with our ageing population, need less nursing staff then I'd imagine.:p

muirean

murphaph wrote: »

A Civil engineer would use all the same mathematics as a chemical engineer, he would need to train in the chemical sepcific elements (sorry, bad pun) of the new job, but would be better than a fresh chemical engineering graduate as his knowledge of civils would likely be quite useful in chemical engineering, design of chemical plant etc.

Similarly...

I would of course expect a RGN to be able to accept whatever specialised training they might need to work in mental health, but I can't accept that the knowledge of medicine an RGN would bring to the new job would be outweighed by a freshly qualified graduate and it would save on the cost of an extra employee and would add to the RGNs capabilities. I see no downside other than requiring fewer nurses.

I love how everybody outside the health service thinks they know why the whole health system is wrong an imply that if they were in charge they would (obviously!) do an better job.
Yes, the budget pours money into the health service every year and it seems like a waste, perhaps it is not efficiently being managed as well as it could be but hey? who gives a s***t?! where would we be with out our health? there would be little reason for investment in infrastructure or foreign investment if we were all sick and dying. This is a very extreme example but nobody realizes why we need a health care system until they or a close relative gets sick.
i have a problem with the claim that Ireland is 'over nursed'! such a comment, you would know well that you have never had the displeasure of being in hospital recently; visiting or as a patient. i would kindly thank you to revoke that statement until such a date in which you can validate it with relevant experience/knowledge! :eek:

ps. MRSA and other Hospital acquired infections are not as a result of uncleanliness or (nurses fault) they are as a result of resistant strains bacteria and viruses from over prescribing of antibiotics! id like to see public opinion if they decided to bring nuns, back there would be uproar!

jonsnow

galway2007 wrote: »

Australia is take them and regards Irish nurses as of a very high standard
They start on €30 k a year and get the following shift premium
10% for working 10am to 1 pm
12.5% for working 1pm to 4pm
15% for working 4 pm to 4am
Time and half for working weekends
Time and three quarters for Sundays
They don’t have to put up with the social issues that are in Ireland and best of all they have a better standard of living and the sun
So all nurses should give the 2 fingers to HARNEY and the Irish people and head to oz

I thought nurses did it as a calling/vocation.I didn't realise they were just another group of hired gun professionals and isn,t Harney gone a while now.Shouldn,t it be 2 fingers to O'Reilly.

nesf

muirean wrote: »

I love how everybody outside the health service thinks they know why the whole health system is wrong an imply that if they were in charge they would (obviously!) do an better job.
Yes, the budget pours money into the health service every year and it seems like a waste, perhaps it is not efficiently being managed as well as it could be but hey? who gives a s***t?! where would we be with out our health? there would be little reason for investment in infrastructure or foreign investment if we were all sick and dying. This is a very extreme example but nobody realizes why we need a health care system until they or a close relative gets sick.
i have a problem with the claim that Ireland is 'over nursed'! such a comment, you would know well that you have never had the displeasure of being in hospital recently; visiting or as a patient. i would kindly thank you to revoke that statement until such a date in which you can validate it with relevant experience/knowledge! :eek:

ps. MRSA and other Hospital acquired infections are not as a result of uncleanliness or (nurses fault) they are as a result of resistant strains bacteria and viruses from over prescribing of antibiotics! id like to see public opinion if they decided to bring nuns, back there would be uproar!

Please don't drag up threads that are a year old to make an argument against a person in the thread. There's no guarantee they even still post on here or care about the issue or even hold the same view anymore.

femur61

jonsnow wrote: »

I thought nurses did it as a calling/vocation.I didn't realise they were just another group of hired gun professionals and isn,t Harney gone a while now.Shouldn,t it be 2 fingers to O'Reilly.

Harney was in charge of HSE when thread started, look at the OP date.