Drafting Etiquette

Coronal

Hi all,

While out on a spin this evening, I had my first encounter with another cyclist beyond a nod and fingers-off-the-bars salute (I'm a bit of a n00b). I only noticed that he was drafting me when I heard his free-wheel spin as we slowed down coming towards a junction. He was stuck on my wheel for a good bit afterwards, and then took the front (thankfully :P).

I was just wondering what the etiquette was for this kind of thing: should you let somebody know you're drafting (I'm glad I didn't have to slam on!); how often should you switch positions; what do you do when leaving off? I shouted 'Bye', but I don't know what the norm is...

Thanks!

Lumen

Coronal wrote: »

should you let somebody know you're drafting (I'm glad I didn't have to slam on!);

Self-preservation would suggest yes.

I was stealth drafted on a commute last year. Had to brake hard to avoid turning car, and the guy came down after touching wheels. The first I knew of him was his desperate yell of fear followed by a clattering into the gutter. My bike and I were unscathed, but he had a suspected broken thumb and drivetrain damage.

Captain Havoc

Most cyclists won't mind you drafting as long as you let them know. I know if you started drafting behind me without a hello I will shake you off.

Coronal

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Most cyclists won't mind you drafting as long as you let them know. I know if you started drafting behind me without a hello I will shake you off.

That's what I was thinking alright.

I had planned to shake him off (no hello, no work sharing for several kms), but I was already going pretty flat out (for me :rolleyes:), so trying to pull away probably wouldn't have worked out so well...

blorg

Sounds like someone needs to brush up on commuter race tactics and strategies.

Coronal

blorg wrote: »

Sounds like someone needs to brush up on commuter race tactics and strategies.

I did commit he cardinal sin of looking behind me every so often until I remembered them. I haven't had a decent commuter race in a while, so I am a little rusty.

Any tips?

fletch

How exactly do you let someone know you're drafting them? Is drafting buses down the quays frowned upon?

Raam

Slap their arse.

Coronal

Raam wrote: »

Slap their arse.

Direct and noticeable, I guess :P

Lumen

fletch wrote: »

Is drafting buses down the quays frowned upon?

Only by your next of kin.

Nietzschean

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Most cyclists won't mind you drafting as long as you let them know. I know if you started drafting behind me without a hello I will shake you off.

I've yet to have anyone tell me they are drafting me, not sure i'd hear them behind in the wind anyway. I did have someone thank me at the lights this evening having been drafting me for a few km prior to it. And i've yet to tell anyone if i'm drafting them for a bit... just doesn't seem to occur to me, they are welcome to try shake me off though, that would just spell a bit of a commuter race.

frankly if your drafting you should always be in a position to account for the person in front emergency breaking...and if you can't you shouldn't be doing it.(i.e. don't draft in tight traffic/no space)

blorg

In fairness a rider accustomed to group riding will handle themselves completely differently if they think they have someone on their wheel vs thinking that they are on their own. E.g. no sudden braking, predictable, etc. It is a good idea to make sure the lead rider is aware of the situation. Any time I've done it at the end of a sportive, etc. (e.g. wrecked) I make sure to ask first "OK to sit on your wheel?", the response has always been that I am welcome.

Coronal

Thanks for all the replies, guys, much appreciated I think I have a lot to learn about drafting and group riding, though, and a lot of brushing up to do on my commuter racing :P

iregk

Right there are a couple of things here.

Last week after covering 130km I was shattered sitting at the hollywood turn off. So after the Gorgey went by another group and a lad (dura ace on here, who i got talking to) were all heading towards Blessington. I asked if they could drag me back to Blessington so I drafted all the way home. That's cool as it was agreed and discussed prior to it happening.

During the week after catching someone on the N81 I pulled up along side and said hello and we worked it back between us all the way home. Thats the way I do it. I don't just draft I go up along side and get dialogue going. That's cool.

Now whats not cool is the two a$$ holes that caught me while I was suffereing badly and on my last legs (again on the n81) about a month back and drafted me all the way from Hollywood to Blessington. It was only when we got to Blessington that one of them said hello.

Ryder

Was coming back from a club spin last sat along the enniskerry rd, was hammering it back ahead as i had baby sitting to look forward to. Cyclist in full racing kit joins me from a sideroad......and passes. i drafted him for a bit (1min) then went up and over......5mins later he passes with a pissed look on his face. I drafted then went over again....same thing 5mins later guy just passes and looks pissed off. In stepaside i just hammered home. moral is....maybe just draft and keep your mouth shut?

racso1975

iregk wrote: »

Right there are a couple of things here.

Last week after covering 130km I was shattered sitting at the hollywood turn off. So after the Gorgey went by another group and a lad (dura ace on here, who i got talking to) were all heading towards Blessington. I asked if they could drag me back to Blessington so I drafted all the way home. That's cool as it was agreed and discussed prior to it happening.

During the week after catching someone on the N81 I pulled up along side and said hello and we worked it back between us all the way home. Thats the way I do it. I don't just draft I go up along side and get dialogue going. That's cool.

Now whats not cool is the two a$$ holes that caught me while I was suffereing badly and on my last legs (again on the n81) about a month back and drafted me all the way from Hollywood to Blessington. It was only when we got to Blessington that one of them said hello.

Think thats the moral of the story draft and be drafted. Amen

thirtythirty

Is that what people are doing!? I always thought that it was because I was cycling at X speed, and they cycle at X +0.5 speed, so while they go faster than me, it doesn't warrant an overtake. The amount of times i've been cycling along with someone right on my tail (either i overtook them while i was powering along, or they just slid up behind me) and in my head im screaming "FECK OFF - I cant keep going this speed"!

Coronal

spottyelephant wrote: »

in my head im screaming "FECK OFF - I cant keep going this speed"!

That's pretty much what was going through my head as well. Which was good; I had wanted to hammer it home, so this kept some nice pressure on me. I was very glad when he took the front, though, I never knew that it could make as much difference as it does! :rolleyes:

cdaly_

iregk wrote: »

Now whats not cool is the two a$$ holes that caught me while I was suffereing badly and on my last legs (again on the n81) about a month back and drafted me all the way from Hollywood to Blessington. It was only when we got to Blessington that one of them said hello.

Could be they were suffering too and couldn't overtake. I've come up behind a few riders and just sat behind them to recover for a bit before saying hi or taking my turn up front. Sometimes my turn up front doesn't happen 'cos I haven't the legs left...

OTOH, it's always nice when you get a shared drafting session going.

el tel

I've never been drafted by a stranger nor drafted one. For me it's just like tasting someone else's home made sandwiches: I simply wouldn't feel right about it.

CheGuedara

For me it's pretty clear cut - if you're strong enough to hold a draft then you're strong enough to come to the front for a stint too even if it's just a short one.

I always try to do my share, even if I'm wrecked and only able to do a token pull at the front for a minute or two so it drives me nuts when someone sits on a wheel and won't do any bit of a turn

mcgratheoin

Personally, I've caught/been caught quite a few times and unless it's a straight overtake and blow past, I'll usually start a conversation and give it a minute abreast before settling into drafting. First time I went up the Sally Gap I

On the point of someone not doing any work - what's the position if you're in a small group and can't get to the front? I ended up towards the end of the SK in a group of about 4 or 5 and anytime someone dropped off the front they slotted in about 2 or 3 riders back instead of going to the back of the group. Eventually I went up and over as I was feeling bad about not having done a turn at the front but as we were going I was never going to end up there.

mike12

Hi,
So its ok to Draft if someone passes u out and you stay on his wheel or u pull up along side and ask, its not ok to sneak up on someone and draft u should pull along side and ask? what do u do if they say no? Its not ok to slap anyone except close family on the ass. If someone is drafting you without asking pull aside and let them come thru to do a bit of work. Is that it just in case it happens to me.
Mike

briano

mike12 wrote: »

Hi,
Its not ok to slap anyone except close family on the ass.

Mike

That is just creepy.

Captain Havoc

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Personally, I've caught/been caught quite a few times and unless it's a straight overtake and blow past, I'll usually start a conversation and give it a minute abreast before settling into drafting. First time I went up the Sally Gap I

On the point of someone not doing any work - what's the position if you're in a small group and can't get to the front? I ended up towards the end of the SK in a group of about 4 or 5 and anytime someone dropped off the front they slotted in about 2 or 3 riders back instead of going to the back of the group. Eventually I went up and over as I was feeling bad about not having done a turn at the front but as we were going I was never going to end up there.

Just take advantage of it. I remember on the Tour de Burren last year been carried home by a great bunch of lads from Cork who were super nice about helping me. On the ROK last zear though, I got really cheesed off when a group from the one club caught mz wheel and when I slowed to let them past, they also slowed, I knew there was only one thing to do, slow down and then sprint off with grace.

Esroh

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Just take advantage of it. I remember on the Tour de Burren last year been carried home by a great bunch of lads from Cork who were super nice about helping me. On the ROK last zear though, I got really cheesed off when a group from the one club caught mz wheel and when I slowed to let them past, they also slowed, I knew there was only one thing to do, slow down and then sprint off with grace.

Were you talking to yourself at the time:D

Captain Havoc

Esroh wrote: »

Were you talking to yourself at the time:D

whisht let you!!!!!

shaungil

Thanks god for Boards.

When I was on hols last year in France I went off a few mornings for a few hours. One of the days was on the return route and espied a bloke in full race gear on a decent bike ahead of me. I was doing intervals so I thought grand time for the hammer to come out , took a 5 sec breather as I got closer and blasted by him head down for 2 km and then eased up. bloke was behind me so we started the mutual drafting thing for 30 km, him going thru towns like a loon me taking the longer breezier sections. Old Continental lad not a word spoke between unless until he turns off and yells "Cioa".

Spun home happy with myself had got a good session in and the time flew by.

Went in to the missus who was washing up after brekafast and told her the story and explained the universal etiquette of cyclists working/ racing together and how great it is.

Without looking up she just said " That's so nice I'm really happy you found a new little friend" just like she was talking to my four year old. Worst put down I've ever got easily.

Thanks Boardsies for understanding.

tunney

el tel wrote: »

I've never been drafted by a stranger nor drafted one. For me it's just like tasting someone else's home made sandwiches: I simply wouldn't feel right about it.

Scooters are the best for drafts

el tel

I don't know if counts as proper drafting, but further to my post below, I do remember one occassion when I followed in the slipstream of Jeannie Rankin (celebrity chef Paul Rakin's missus) as she rode her mountain bike up through Belfast, me two yards behind, mesmerised by her big gyrating butt and thunderous thighs as she pushed it up past Queen's University.

Captain Havoc

tunney wrote: »

Scooters are the best for drafts

I have to disagree, tractors are better.

GlennaMaddy

I shamelessly drafted a fast commuter for about 5km one day before blasting past for the final km before turning into the office carpark where I locked my bike to the bike rack.
When I was leaving the office that evening there was his bike locked to mine, he said it was a mistake, but if it wasn't I suppose I deserved it!

cdaly_

He was just making sure you'd be there for his tow home...

seamus

Gonna drag this one up for a very specific question which happened a number of times yesterday.

On the PM yesterday, particularly on the way home, I'd catch up with two or three riders just barely going slower than me (say by 2-3km/h) and not being immediately able to overtake (because of traffic or because they were blocking the road), I'd slot in behind them, happy to spin along and take a short breather (4/5mins) in the draft.

I had no problem "taking my turn" as it were, but I knew that if I was to let them draft me, I'd have to drop my pace. So instead I just overtook them and spun off; if they wanted to draft me they could up their pace.

Cheeky, rude or OK? Should I be aiming to just overtake them as early as possible and draft someone going at my pace?

Captain Havoc

Just bull on.

doozerie

Had a guy stick to my wheel a few weeks back on my commute. As I aimed for a gap between an (illegally) parked van in the bus lane and a line of queuing traffic, I realised that a taxi in the line of cars was looking at the same gap. Just as I was about to pass on the left of the taxi, he pulled left into the bus lane, floored the car and filled the gap. I was prepared for it so hit the brakes and stopped the bike with a couple of feet to spare. But the idiot on the bike behind me was obviously oblivious to all of this until it was too late to stop and he opted to use me as an extra brake by sticking his arm out and shoving me into the parked van. I got a hand against the van which stopped me from face-planting it and also managed to unclip a foot and get it on the ground, so I came through unscathed but annoyed. Other guy hit the deck, which took the edge off my anger towards him. Think he was okay, though he didn't merit any sympathy whatsoever.

It's just one incident, but it demonstrates the danger to the rider in front of being drafted by someone that doesn't have a clue of how to ride with others. Even if you are used to riding with a group and know to look ahead rather than at the rear wheel in front of you, sticking to the wheel of someone you don't know is taking liberties. If you are not used to group riding you are posing a danger both to yourself and the rider in front. And in any case, drafting in traffic is just stupid regardless - the dangers are heightened and the benefit of drafting is usually minimal.

souter

seamus wrote: »

Gonna drag this one up for a very specific question which happened a number of times yesterday.

On the PM yesterday, particularly on the way home, I'd catch up with two or three riders just barely going slower than me (say by 2-3km/h) and not being immediately able to overtake (because of traffic or because they were blocking the road), I'd slot in behind them, happy to spin along and take a short breather (4/5mins) in the draft.

I had no problem "taking my turn" as it were, but I knew that if I was to let them draft me, I'd have to drop my pace. So instead I just overtook them and spun off; if they wanted to draft me they could up their pace.

Cheeky, rude or OK? Should I be aiming to just overtake them as early as possible and draft someone going at my pace?

Similar situation myself, first big spin of the year I was sufferring a bit, so I thought about teaming up with a some riders I caught up to. But also wanted to get home and couldn't figure out the etiquette for "err, in a bit of a hurry, so either we speed up or go our seperate ways". So on both occasions overtook them without offering to team up.
Did get me home quicker as well I think - if you overtake someone who's not much slower it turns into something akin to secret commuter race.

Cabaal

Coronal wrote: »

That's what I was thinking alright.

I had planned to shake him off (no hello, no work sharing for several kms), but I was already going pretty flat out (for me :rolleyes:), so trying to pull away probably wouldn't have worked out so well...

If you don't have the energy to speed off and leave him then just slow down and wait for him to get annoyed and overtake you

Staro

GlennaMaddy wrote: »

I shamelessly drafted a fast commuter for about 5km one day before blasting past for the final km before turning into the office carpark where I locked my bike to the bike rack.
When I was leaving the office that evening there was his bike locked to mine, he said it was a mistake, but if it wasn't I suppose I deserved it!

The shame, the shame, we know who you are :-)

Coronal

Cabaal wrote: »

If you don't have the energy to speed off and leave him then just slow down and wait for him to get annoyed and overtake you

I know, but that feels like cheating :P One must fight for one's honour and whatnot, right?

michael196

blorg wrote: »

In fairness a rider accustomed to group riding will handle themselves completely differently if they think they have someone on their wheel vs thinking that they are on their own. E.g. no sudden braking, predictable, etc. It is a good idea to make sure the lead rider is aware of the situation. Any time I've done it at the end of a sportive, etc. (e.g. wrecked) I make sure to ask first "OK to sit on your wheel?", the response has always been that I am welcome.

being wrecked at the end of a sportive, any stronger lads have no problem letting people draft , if its just to get the soldiers home .......

FatSh!te

michael196 wrote: »

being wrecked at the end of a sportive, any stronger lads have no problem letting people draft , if its just to get the soldiers home .......

Second that...did the Sean Kelly 100km 2 years ago with no training, and was in bits towards the end...nearly every group of club/experienced riders that went by encouraged us to jump onto the back of the group for as long as possible....

michael196

FatSh!te wrote: »

Second that...did the Sean Kelly 100km 2 years ago with no training, and was in bits towards the end...nearly every group of club/experienced riders that went by encouraged us to jump onto the back of the group for as long as possible....

absolutly: its no fun out there, no energy, feeling miserable: trying to get home, every cyclist has gone through that at some stage and its no fun at all. , and to be dragged home by a group is a luxury. try it sometime on ur own, thats real misery.

the day will come Fatsh!te when u get to return the favour. its costs nothing to the stronger lads to bring you in.

when I am out with my buddies who are new to cycling; I never leave them: they tell me to go, but I dont !! its just misery on ur own when ur just not up to it, on the day . its important that they realise that help is available : get them home so that they will feel like going out the next day; Leave then there and they might get pissed off, no energy, and have a horrible time getting home, maybe even embarassed out of cycling.

lads are usually very gratefuil for getting dragged home. establishes a good buddy base, when u know the person and are likely to meet up again.

for me, its important for the new lads to know, that if they are in trouble, hungry, just not fit enough or enough miles in the legs or just a bad day, that if there is a group nearby just try to jump on,

especially in sportives where it is not competitive. Funny how a push on ur back for 10 seconds can get u over that crest and u start to recover , and u might come back on board, energy wise in a few minutes .


funniest thing , 2010, bunch of new cycling budies, trying to get them to do up and over : while on the road..... think they thought I was complelty mad. I just gave up !!

:D