25%

daithicarr

this isnt the only poll i have read , there are quite a few which seem to indicate FF support is hovering around 25%.

http://www.sbpost.ie/newsfeatures/fine-gael-extends-poll-lead-48232.html

How in on earth can 1 quarter of the population still be supporting these clowns?

ei.sdraob

daithicarr wrote: »

How in on earth can 1 quarter of the population still be supporting these clowns?

bribes?
mass brainwashing??
stupidity???

Iwasfrozen

daithicarr wrote: »

How in on earth can 1 quarter of the population still be supporting these clowns?

Markets do not like political instability. Many people favour keeping FF in power for this reason alone.

Denerick

unfortunately most people do not see beyond the facile demagoguery of the opposition parties, and their insistence on opposing everything the government does. FG would have followed exactly the same policies as FF, they only opposed NAMA because as Lucinda Creighton said (And she is one vacuous, amoral bitch) 'we wouldn't be doing our job as opposition if we didn't oppose it'. Whatever. Sheer populism.

Its irrelevant as to whether FF or FG are in power; what we need is a strong government prepared to take the tough choices, and it also needs to be aware that the majority of people in this world are idiots, prepared to slate everything the government does without providing any alternatives.

Iwasfrozen

ei.sdraob wrote: »

bribes?
mass brainwashing??
stupidity???

Yes because this is the only reason people would vote for them. :rolleyes:

TheInquisitor

Because the competition is no better

LostinBlanch

That looks like being their core vote i.e. the ones that would normally go out and vote for their local FF candidate even if he was a crossdressing, convicted, neo nazi paedophile.

patmar

Voting FF is stupid ?
FF are clowns ?

What do you call people who have lost 6 elections in a row ?

What do you call people who have not won an election for 30 years ?

What do you call a bunch of extremists from left and right who think they can sit down at a cabinet table and agree on policies to run the country ?

What do you call people who should have 70% of the opinion polls but are no way near it ?

The 25% FF have now will hit a minimun of 35% by the time the election comes round. The campaign will then move FF up even further when the people realise the alternative is a sham before they get near government

yoshytoshy

20% of people are trolls ,the other 5% feed them.

ei.sdraob

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes because this is the only reason people would vote for them. :rolleyes:

why would 25% still vote for them

fontanalis

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why would 25% still vote for them

Because Dev winked at their grandfather or their house is a FF house, you know commen sense things!

maynooth_rules

The tired excuses that will be given are that the opposition are no better:rolleyes:. If a main reason for people voting for FF is because they think the opposition are no better then I feel sorry for them. We are, as a nation, very blinkered and still bounded by Civil War politics. So so many people will not vote for who they believe to be the best candidate, or the best party, instead they will vote the way of the family. Rather than examining the policies of each party and making an informed decision, they vote the way of their mammy and daddy. Until this idiotic mentality is a thing of the the past, FF will be assured of 1/4 of the vote. Very few other countries would accept this shambles of a government.

Kiwi_knock

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why would 25% still vote for them

Maybe because they have not seen any viable alternative. A lot of FF's will never vote FG and vice versa.

ei.sdraob

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Maybe because they have not seen any viable alternative. A lot of FF's will never vote FG and vice versa.

I was about to type a long post but will summarize instead

that's one ****ing lazy excuse

Kiwi_knock

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I was about to type a long post but will summarize instead

that's one ****ing lazy excuse

Just to clarify I am not an FF supporter but I know plenty who are and who in the next election will vote FF regardless of what state the country is in. This is due to a family tradition of voting along a certain line. There is ingrained into a lot of FF's that a vote for FG is betraying the family tradition. I know it is a stupid practice but it is a practice that does exist in a significant parts of the country.

maynooth_rules

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I was about to type a long post but will summarize instead

that's one ****ing lazy excuse

Exactly. And it is the same silly answer that so many FF supporters seem to give. The main reason for supporting FF is based solely on the abilities of the opposition....who remember can do very very little from the the opposition benches

maynooth_rules

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Just to clarify I am not an FF supporter but I know plenty who are and who in the next election will vote FF regardless of what state the country is in. This is due to a family tradition of voting along a certain line. There is ingrained into a lot of FF's that a vote for FG is betraying the family tradition. I know it is a stupid practice but it is a practice that does exist in a significant parts of the country.

Surely as long as this mentality is ingrained into a significant population, we are doomed to dreadful, inept politicians

Kiwi_knock

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Surely as long as this mentality is ingrained into a significant population, we are doomed to dreadful, inept politicians

Exactly, in Ireland we seem to vote for the party rather than the person. It seems you can put anyone on the ballot and if they carry the FF or FG name they are nearly guaranteed to be elected. Policies do not seem to count as much as party politics when it comes to the average voter.

Denerick

Less of the self righteousness, please. I know its fashionable to consider any government minister as inept or corrupt, but the reality is that they have taken hard choices that are internationally respected. (Brian Lenihen deserves a lot of credit for Ireland not being in Greece's position right now) In short, grow up.

RayM

I can think of ten reasons to vote for Fianna Fail...

1. "They're a great bunch of lads, so they are"
2. "My father voted for them"
3. "And my mother"
4. "And my grandparents"
5. "We've always been a Fianna Fail family"
6. "My local FF TD sorted something out for me back in 1998"
7. "Sure, better the devil you know"
8. "They're a great bunch of lads"
9. "Ah Jaysis, sure you know where you stand with them"
10. "Did I mention, they're a great bunch of lads?"

yoshytoshy

Denerick wrote: »

Less of the self righteousness, please. I know its fashionable to consider any government minister as inept or corrupt, but the reality is that they have taken hard choices that are internationally respected. (Brian Lenihen deserves a lot of credit for Ireland not being in Greece's position right now) In short, grow up.

It's hard for people to have fianna fail take credit for something ,that shouldn't really be needed to begin with.

Bertie ahern flyin around the globe telling people how he was responsible for our fortune ,recession comes and it's the worlds fault that we're doing so bad.
What a crock of cockery.

maynooth_rules

Denerick wrote: »

Less of the self righteousness, please. I know its fashionable to consider any government minister as inept or corrupt, but the reality is that they have taken hard choices that are internationally respected. (Brian Lenihen deserves a lot of credit for Ireland not being in Greece's position right now) In short, grow up.

Perhaps you should grow up and stop buying into everything that Brian Lenihan says. Rest assured, we are in only a slightly better position than Greece. If you want to believe that Lenihan is the great messiah, then go ahead and be misguided.
So I am self righteous for saying that many of our government ministers are inept? Id just like to point out that I never mentioned the word corrupt, nor did anyone else in this thread. You are the only the person to mention it which says a hell of a lot. At the moment I can think of more than a handful of government ministers who are not just inept, but beyond inept. Who are you to tell me and others on this thread to drop the self righeousness. I rate each and every government minister on the quality of the job that they have executed since coming into power, and frankly some have been an embarrassment

deadhead13

According to last weeks Sindo, a series of private ff polls indicate total "decimation". Three constituency polls in Dun Laoghaire, Dublin South West and Mayo reveal even Government Ministers such as Hanafin, Andrews and Conor Lenihan are under threat.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/polls-leave-fianna-fail-fearing-total-decimation-2124732.html

Manach

Perhaps people are actually basing their voting preferences on the competence of their local TDs. The State is the prime source of largesse in the country (the representive of the "common good" as per the constitution) so they rate how well the local TD milks the system for them.

Denerick

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Perhaps you should grow up and stop buying into everything that Brian Lenihan says. Rest assured, we are in only a slightly better position than Greece. If you want to believe that Lenihan is the great messiah, then go ahead and be misguided.

Lenihen led this country on a path of austerity and budgetry realism at the very beginning, when we needed the reality check most. Populist ministers in Greece tried to pretend things were OK, and even used some creative accountancy to maintain the illusion of budgetary competence.

You need to look at Ireland from a comparitive perspective. The FF government has won international acclaim for its handling of the economic crisis.

Liam Byrne

Denerick wrote: »

Less of the self righteousness, please. I know its fashionable to consider any government minister as inept or corrupt, but the reality is that they have taken hard choices that are internationally respected. (Brian Lenihen deserves a lot of credit for Ireland not being in Greece's position right now) In short, grow up.

And remind us again - these "hard choices" were required because........?

Other countries are ALREADY on their way out of recession because........?

And then you add in "grow up" ??? Give me a break!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

Denerick wrote: »

Lenihen led this country on a path of austerity and budgetry realism at the very beginning, when we needed the reality check most. Populist ministers in Greece tried to pretend things were OK, and even used some creating accounting to maintain the illusion of budgetary competence.

Ahern wasn't in Greece at the time, was he ?

Denerick wrote: »

You need to look at Ireland from a comparitive perspective. The FF government has won international acclaim for its handling of the economic crisis.

"international acclaim" ???? Its actions have been sanctioned and given the green light....no more, no less. They got a "go ahead", not a "wow, ye're marvellous".

A cop telling someone "OK, drive on" doesn't mean that he's comparing them to Reuben Barrichello! "international acclaim" :rolleyes:

And did they win "international acclaim" for creating the mess ?

Interesting too how it's "The FF government".......there was me thinking it was a coalition.......

Pocaide

and the end of the day people are entilted to vote for whom they want too no matter what we think, Its called democrascy one person one vote and calling them stupid or whatever only galvalises them

Iwasfrozen

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why would 25% still vote for them

Markets do not like political instability. Many people favour keeping FF in power for this reason alone.

Steodonn

Pocaide wrote: »

and the end of the day people are entilted to vote for whom they want too no matter what we think, Its called democrascy one person one vote and calling them stupid or whatever only galvalises them

Thus proving democracy dosent work

Also people vote FF because they don't want FG to win.

PomBear

they are 25% because the alternatives are FG/Labour/SF/Greens

FG is much of a muchness
Labour as we've seen with the Greens will just be yes men and make up the numbers for a majority
Greens-See above
SF- Sinn Féin said at their last Ard Fheis they wouldn't go into coalition with any government unless they took on socialist republican principles which is effectively saying not a chance. Many people don't vote for them and have no reason why because if you think about it they are a real alternative. They have bee tagged as 'economic illiterates' yet how many read their last pre budget submission? If you read it, it actualy makes sense.

Liam Byrne

PomBear wrote: »

FG is much of a muchness

I'm sick of seeing this line being touted. As I've said before, the "same but minus the extreme corruption" is enough of a difference.

PomBear wrote: »

Labour as we've seen with the Greens will just be yes men and make up the numbers for a majority

Any chance of backing this claim up ?

Denerick

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And remind us again - these "hard choices" were required because........?

Read the wikipedia article on economics and then, perhaps, you might be entitled to such a pedestrian opinion.

Other countries are ALREADY on their way out of recession because........?


And then you add in "grow up" ??? Give me a break!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah. Whatever.

Denerick

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Ahern wasn't in Greece at the time, was he ?

Do you speak in riddles or something?

"international acclaim" ???? Its actions have been sanctioned and given the green light....no more, no less. They got a "go ahead", not a "wow, ye're marvellous".

Just as an example, the Economist regularly hails the actions of the Irish government. As do most international publications of any merit. Just because opinions like yours for some reason have some weight in this country does not make it so. I do wonder why people like you should be given the right to vote. Scary stuff.

A cop telling someone "OK, drive on" doesn't mean that he's comparing them to Reuben Barrichello! "international acclaim" :rolleyes:

And did they win "international acclaim" for creating the mess ?

Game. Set. Match. Read a newspaper every so often mate. Embaressing stuff.

Citizen_Cutback

Fianna Fail candidates have to be cute hoors because they normally have at least one constituency rival; Remember Jackie Healy-Rae used to be a Fianna Fail director of Elections in Kerry.
Each Fianna Fail candidate has dedicated personal supporters.
Fianna Gael and Labour candidates rarely have strong constituency rivals and are therefore inclined to be lazy and depend on the Party vote.
The Fianna Fail Party machine know who their core voters are.
Older Fianna Fail supporters would rise from their death bed to vote for the Party.
Several Fianna Fail TD's will resign the Party whip before the next Election to get a sympathy vote.

Liam Byrne

Denerick wrote: »

Just because opinions like yours for some reason have some weight in this country does not make it so. I do wonder why people like you should be given the right to vote. Scary stuff.

Oh, OK......just because my opinion doesn't agree with those of FF apologists like yourself means we shouldn't operate as a democracy......point taken.

Denerick wrote: »

Game. Set. Match. Read a newspaper every so often mate. Embaressing stuff.

Haven't a notion what you're on about. "Game. Set. Match" ????

I read newspapers most days (no tabloids, mind), and develop an informed opinion based on facts and track records. You want me to read less ?

And what's with the "Embarressing" [sic] ?

FF policies made the effects of the "international downturn" a million times worse. Fact.

PomBear

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm sick of seeing this line being touted. As I've said before, the "same but minus the extreme corruption" is enough of a difference.



Any chance of backing this claim up ?

Far Right politics doesn't work in this country, we need job stimulus, FG don't have a job stimulus proposal AFAIK, FG, like FF, will seek to leave the millionaires and property developers who have scarred the ordinary Irish people unscathed. The Irish people deserve accountability and FG, from previous governmets, look very much like they won't do much.


What have the Greens had a say on in this Government? Labour are Left Wing, FG are Right wing, so straight away a large proportion of their views conflict and who has the final say? FG will and Labour have proven before they don't have the balls pressure the leading party

Liam Byrne

PomBear wrote: »

The Irish people deserve accountability and FG, from previous governmets, look very much like they won't do much.

I would be worried on this aspect, what with Labour being the ones to emphasise that O'Donoghue's excesses were unacceptable.

So I'd agree that we deserve better than FG; unfortunately, given that that's not on the table, we'll have to settle for the lack of corruption angle, at least until someone creates a new party that stands for ethics, competence, accountability, and a willingness to work for the good of the country.

As soon as I see one, that's my vote sorted 100%.

PomBear

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I would be worried on this aspect, what with Labour being the ones to emphasise that O'Donoghue's excesses were unacceptable.

So I'd agree that we deserve better than FG; unfortunately, given that that's not on the table, we'll have to settle for the lack of corruption angle, at least until someone creates a new party that stands for ethics, competence, accountability, and a willingness to work for the good of the country.

As soon as I see one, that's my vote sorted 100%.

The sad thing is most Irish people will see it that way, I don't blame them.

There are 4, maybe 5 choices:
FF/Greens
FG/Labour
SF
Independent- if you vote independent make sure you know where their allegiances are going to lie because they can effectively turn into party TDs
Smaller Party(Socialist Party, SWP etc.)

TBH, it's worse in the UK in terms of choice but i'd hope that people think outsde the regular 2 choices

Eutow

Denerick wrote: »

Read the wikipedia article on economics and then, perhaps, you might be entitled to such a pedestrian opinion.



Yeah. Whatever.

Your defence of Fianna Fail economic policies is as strong as your knowledge of finding a reputable source of articles on economics. The fact is we are in a mess, and it is largely thanks to FF ineptitude. They don't deserve any praise for being largely responsible for getting us in this mess.

Eutow

Denerick wrote: »

Do you speak in riddles or something?



Just as an example, the Economist regularly hails the actions of the Irish government. As do most international publications of any merit. Just because opinions like yours for some reason have some weight in this country does not make it so. I do wonder why people like you should be given the right to vote. Scary stuff.



Game. Set. Match. Read a newspaper every so often mate. Embaressing stuff.

No, the thing that scares me is that at least 25% of people will continue to vote Fianna Fail at the next General Election.

goose2005

Denerick wrote: »

The FF government has won international acclaim for its handling of the economic crisis.

Even as the Financial Times named Lenihan as Europe's worst finance minister?

PomBear

Denerick wrote: »

The FF government has won international acclaim for its handling of the economic crisis.

Link Please?

daithicarr

i do agree there are a significant number of people who vote on party loyalty, i know a few of my generation even and youd think it wouldnt be as strong so long after the civil war. when i asked them why are you voting ff or FG for that matter they normaly say things like "Dev was great for Ireland" or "collins was the man". Dev clung to power as the country continued to get on the boat , and are they not all long dead now and hardly relevant to casting your vote.

Personally I dont think anyone pays any heed to the various partys policiys, or perhaps the partys could spend more time trying to express their policys to the electorate and less time attacking the goverment no matter what.

another significant factor could be the local issues thing, "look what he did for castlebar, letterkenny, limerick ...etc. maybe a list system where at least 50% of the canidates are elected on a national level would help reduce this effect.

But given nearly half the electorate will probably vote for their party no matter what (be it FF, FG, Labour) I dont really think there will be any meaningful change

Pride Fighter

Liam Byrne wrote: »

at least until someone creates a new party that stands for ethics, competence, accountability, and a willingness to work for the good of the country.

As soon as I see one, that's my vote sorted 100%.

Sounds like the Labour party to me.

daithicarr

Denerick wrote: »

Just as an example, the Economist regularly hails the actions of the Irish government. As do most international publications of any merit. Just because opinions like yours for some reason have some weight in this country does not make it so. I do wonder why people like you should be given the right to vote. Scary stuff.

The scary thing here is that you seem to think that anyone who questions FF's devine right to rule isint capable of casting a vote or perhaps shouldnt be allowed vote.

Thirdfox

As much as it pains to me to say this - but other parties don't really seem to appeal to me (and I'm a naturalised immigrant so none of the civil war history/family voting for me).

Labour won't represent my interests.

I used to be in favour of the Greens - I've seen how they've performed in government...

FG's leadership and policies (the ones I've seen Enda tout) do not impress me - though they do have the "not FF" argument going for them...which as we've seen from the Bush/Kerry election, isn't a good enough reason to vote for "the other guy". To shift the incumbent from power we need either more than just "they have no solutions" but "here are our solutions" and from my viewpoint the FG, Lab, Greens, SF solution for Ireland in the current economic crisis (not of their making certainly, but neither did they help much to prevent it occurring...I recall FG lobbying for a lowering of stamp duty during the property boom years? Populist measures that do not bode well for our economy if we need to make difficult and painful choices) doesn't quite stack up.

In fact, in seeing how the opposition parties opposed NAMA, I'm quite inclined not to vote for any of them...which leaves... FF

A sad state of affairs really. And the juvenile insulting of voters seen on this thread is really befitting of the politics forum right? Save it for after hours guys.

Who knows - maybe as we reach election 2012 parties will have more appealing policies (to me). Otherwise it will unfortunately be a case of "the devil you know". I remain to be convinced.

gamblor1975

If FG were able to grow a pair, and actually say what it is they propose to do, I might consider voting for them. All we have heard from them for years is moaning about whatever FF do without actually proposing solutions themselves.

If FG came out and said they were going to face down the Public service unions , I would vote for them today if I could. With the same thinking in mind, Labour are part of the problem and not the solution.

daithicarr

Yes FG are populist much like FF, but at least they are not thoroughly corrupt and harbour a belief that they have a right to stay in power. They have a proven track record of corruption, cronyism and ineptitude.
On those grounds alone they deserve to be removed from office.

The fact that they got us in to this mess and wont take any of the blame or cant even see how they are to blame does note bode well for this country.

The fact that they cant even admit to their own fault removes any remaining credibility they could justifiably claim. How can people vote for a partys whos former leader claims he recieved cash donations from his mates and felt safer keeping his cash at home, even though he was minister for finance at the time?

Liam Byrne

daithicarr wrote: »

How can people vote for a partys whos former leader claims he recieved cash donations from his mates and felt safer keeping his cash at home, even though he was minister for finance at the time?

Maybe he knew more about our bankers than he let on ?

ednwireland

deadhead13 wrote: »

According to last weeks Sindo, a series of private ff polls indicate total "decimation". Three constituency polls in Dun Laoghaire, Dublin South West and Mayo reveal even Government Ministers such as Hanafin, Andrews and Conor Lenihan are under threat.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/polls-leave-fianna-fail-fearing-total-decimation-2124732.html

"no cabinet minister, not even the Tanaiste up in Donegal, is safe.

boy would i love to see that, even up here she's seen as ineffective, theres a lot of people who voted for her who thought (wrongly and you should never vote on this basis) that being a cabinet minister she would bring stuff up here.
which made me laugh,
i never agreed with ff policies in 97 and its not got any better since then.
if theres one person that shhould be looking for a job after the next ge its her.

que pat the cope coming back to the dail to sure up the vote