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Non-believers

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  • 08-04-2010 6:40pm
    #1
    TheColl
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭


    If you had to quote one Bible passage, one anecdote, or simply just make one statement to attempt to turn a "non-believer" into a "believer" or at least set them on that road.... what would it be?


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    #2
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    I can't imagine that one quote would ever change the mind of an unbeliever.


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    #3
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    I can't imagine that one quote would ever change the mind of an unbeliever.


    Apparently Martin Luther was converted by a line in Romans 3
    Though I lived as a monk without reproach, I felt that I was a sinner before God with an extremely disturbed conscience. I could not believe that he was placated by my satisfaction. I did not love, yes, I hated the righteous God who punishes sinners, and secretly, if not blasphemously, certainly murmuring greatly, I was angry with God, and said, "As if, indeed, it is not enough, that miserable sinners, eternally lost through original sin, are crushed by every kind of calamity by the law of the decalogue, without having God add pain to pain by the gospel and also by the gospel threatening us with his righteousness and wrath!" Thus I raged with a fierce and troubled conscience. Nevertheless, I beat importunately upon Paul at that place, most ardently desiring to know what St. Paul wanted.

    At last, by the mercy of God, meditating day and night, I gave heed to the context of the words, namely, "In it the righteousness of God is revealed, as it is written, 'He who through faith is righteous shall live.'" There I began to understand that the righteousness of God is that by which the righteous lives by a gift of God, namely by faith. And this is the meaning: the righteousness of God is revealed by the gospel, namely, the passive righteousness with which merciful God justifies us by faith, as it is written, "He who through faith is righteous shall live." Here I felt that I was altogether born again and had entered paradise itself through open gates. There a totally other face of the entire Scripture showed itself to me...




    http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/mlconversion.htm
    [SIZE=+1][/SIZE]


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    #4
    TheColl
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭TheColl


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    I can't imagine that one quote would ever change the mind of an unbeliever.

    Fair enough. How about to get them thinking?


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    #5
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    TheColl wrote: »
    If you had to quote one Bible passage, one anecdote, or simply just make one statement to attempt to turn a "non-believer" into a "believer" or at least set them on that road.... what would it be?

    The "gospel" is good news for bad people who know they're bad and bad news for people who think they're good.


    Trite but true.


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    #6
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    TheColl wrote: »
    If you had to quote one Bible passage, one anecdote, or simply just make one statement to attempt to turn a "non-believer" into a "believer" or at least set them on that road.... what would it be?

    "Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart." Psalm 37:4


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    #7
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    TheColl wrote: »
    Fair enough. How about to get them thinking?

    I quite like the following quote that is attributed to St. Francis of Assisi.
    Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary

    In a largely post-Christian culture, I think that many people have moved towards a nebulous belief in some spiritual afterlife. Often there is a negative preconception associated with Christianity (in Ireland this is usually something to do with a nasty experience they had with Catholicism) and I would think that works and actions are often the best way to preach to these people.


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    #8
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    "Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart." Psalm 37:4
    Nah. Didn't work.

    MrP


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    #9
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    TheColl wrote: »
    If you had to quote one Bible passage, one anecdote, or simply just make one statement to attempt to turn a "non-believer" into a "believer" or at least set them on that road.... what would it be?

    I'm an atheist, but it seems the easiest way to convert a non-believer into a believer is to simply appeal to some principle of innate common sense and then tie that to something your religion teaches that is along the same lines.

    That seems more often that not to work pretty well, given that when most believers say why the believe the explanation goes along the line that they knew "X" deep down (eg the were rotten), and then when religion Y (say Islam) showed them why X happens (you have turned from God) they knew they had found the "truth".

    If I was a more cynical man I would pull a Hubbard and make a million :D


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    #10
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Statements, words, and anything else don't bring people to Christ. In all actuality, people don't bring people to Christ. It is only by God are people drawn to God. He just sometimes works through individuals. There is no token line or phrase.

    In fact, genuinely living out the Gospel is perhaps, the best testimony of Christian faith. It's something I aim, and struggle at doing.


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    #11
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Wait until the non believer has a personal tragedy or crisis then see if they're more susceptible?


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    #12
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Wait until the non believer has a personal tradegy or crisis then see if they're more susceptible?

    Isn't that always the answer when it comes to any religion recruiting new members?


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    #13
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Wait until the non believer has a personal tradegy or crisis then see if they're more susceptible?

    You are making a habit of making snide comments. I suggest you stop or take it where it will be appreciated.


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    #14
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Nah. Didn't work.

    MrP

    Ah well, nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose. Maybe we all need to consider the following verse before assuming that any words we can say will have any effect on the unbeliever.

    "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:" John 6:44

    If the Father is not drawing you then that can only mean He's not too bothered whether you come to Jesus or not. What else can it mean?


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    #15
    Stephentlig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭Stephentlig


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Statements, words, and anything else don't bring people to Christ. In all actuality, people don't bring people to Christ. It is only by God are people drawn to God. He just sometimes works through individuals. There is no token line or phrase.

    In fact, genuinely living out the Gospel is perhaps, the best testimony of Christian faith. It's something I aim, and struggle at doing.

    Good post I'm reminded also of what Franz Jaggerstatter Catholic Martyr said in a letter to his wife, which was ''A Christian is not recognised in what he says, but in what he does.'' ( his life story can be found on my blog http://thebloodofthemartyrs.blogspot.com/search/label/Franz%20J%C3%A4gerst%C3%A4tter )

    I would stress though that although Jesus is whom brings us to himself statements and words are that seed in which we plant and then God does the watering, as St.Paul mentions in the Bible.

    Pax Christi
    Stephen <3


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    #16
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    I agree that a single quote or anecdote isn't going to undo a lifetime of other stuff. Nevertheless, a good point to get people thinking:

    "The Son of God became the Son of Man so that the sons of men could become the sons of God." (John Calvin)


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    #17
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Some evidence would do the trick. If someone is a true athiest, there is likely no changing that person's mind. It's like trying to persuade an adult Santa exists.


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    #18
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Maximilian wrote: »
    Some evidence would do the trick. If someone is a true athiest, there is likely no changing that person's mind. It's like trying to persuade an adult Santa exists.

    Sorry to disillusion you - but lots of us used to be 'true' atheists.


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    #19
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    PDN wrote: »
    Sorry to disillusion you - but lots of us used to be 'true' atheists.

    I have a feeling that's not entirely correct, rather you were a bit on the fence. Regardless, if you say so, I'm not going to call you a liar.

    I only felt compelled to post here because the very idea of being converted to belief in god by anything in the bible is beyond laughable to me.


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    #20
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Maximilian wrote: »
    I only felt compelled to post here because the very idea of being converted to belief in god by anything in the bible is beyond laughable to me.

    You are entitled to your viewpoint, even if you have to support it be redefining the thousands of atheists who convert to Christ as not being 'true' atheists (I think over on the A&A forum they mockingly refer to your position as being 'the one true scotsman' argument).

    However, before you feel compelled to post here again, I suggest you try reading the Forum Charter.


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    #21
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Maximilian wrote: »
    I have a feeling that's not entirely correct, rather you were a bit on the fence. Regardless, if you say so, I'm not going to call you a liar.

    You just did.


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    #22
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    You just did.

    No I didn't. I merely think there's a possibility he didn't realise he was on the fence or wasn't really an athiest. I find it difficult to understand how someone could change their mind like that.


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    #23
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Maximilian wrote: »
    No I didn't. I merely think there's a possibility he didn't realise he was on the fence or wasn't really an athiest. I find it difficult to understand how someone could change their mind like that.

    Actually I was a pretty aggressive hard-line atheist. People change their minds on things all the time. I think the world would be a much sorrier place if everyone just dogmatically clung onto all their presuppositions.

    We should encourage people to think for themselves, to listen to one another, to weigh up the arguments and the evidence, and then to reach their own conclusions.

    And, in my opinion, that means some people will become Christians, some people will become atheists, and some people will make different choices altogether.

    Many of us used to be so arrogant as to think that our opinions were so right that anyone who disagreed with us must necessarily be deluded, uneducated, or wilfully blind. Thankfully, as we get older, we often grow up a bit and stop being intolerant asshats. :)


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    #24
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    PDN wrote: »
    Actually I was a pretty aggressive hard-line atheist. People change their minds on things all the time. I think the world would be a much sorrier place if everyone just dogmatically clung onto all their presuppositions.

    We should encourage people to think for themselves, to listen to one another, to weigh up the arguments and the evidence, and then to reach their own conclusions.

    And, in my opinion, that means some people will become Christians, some people will become atheists, and some people will make different choices altogether.

    Many of us used to be so arrogant as to think that our opinions were so right that anyone who disagreed with us must necessarily be deluded, uneducated, or wilfully blind. Thankfully, as we get older, we often grow up a bit and stop being intolerant asshats. :)

    Fair enough. I wasn't trying to be an asshat thank you very much.


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    #25
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Maximilian wrote: »
    Fair enough. I wasn't trying to be an asshat thank you very much.

    Actually I was saying that I used to be an asshat (not just because I was an atheist, as I meet many Christian asshats, but because of my arrogance).


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    #26
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    PDN wrote: »
    Sorry to disillusion you - but lots of us used to be 'true' atheists.

    I agree that you were a "true" atheist in that you didn't believe in God, but what I think he means is atheist like the regular posters on the A&A forum, and judging from your posts about being an atheist and the comments you have made about how you became a theist, you weren't anything like them, or me.

    It is the problem I guess when atheist is such a broad catch all term.


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    #27
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I agree that you were a "true" atheist in that you didn't believe in God, but what I think he means is atheist like the regular posters on the A&A forum, and judging from your posts about being an atheist and the comments you have made about how you became a theist, you weren't anything like them, or me.

    It is the problem I guess when atheist is such a broad catch all term.

    It's kind of what I mean. Look, I really don't to get into the business of antagonizing people or belittling what they sincerely choose to believe but going from athiest to theist is to me - in my humble opinion - a little like knowing the truth about "a thing" and nevertheless choosing to believe the opposite. The only rational explanation for that I can think of is that such a person never actually knew/understood the 'truth' to begin with or for some other psychological reason, couldn't bring themselves to accept it.

    Anyway, I think this is the wrong forum and the wrong topic for such a discussion. I only posted here because I found the OP's question ridiculous. It's like asking what quote from the Origin of Species would convert a muslim.


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    #28
    crotalus667
    Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭crotalus667


    TheColl wrote: »
    If you had to quote one Bible passage, one anecdote, or simply just make one statement to attempt to turn a "non-believer" into a "believer" or at least set them on that road.... what would it be?
    On more than one occasion I have read the entire book cover to cover and I can firmly say that there was not one passage that could “convert me” (maybe if I read a few of them and ignored the rest I may have been convinced to be more tolerant of the religion but that is just conjecture) there was one passage that lead me to read other passages which lead me to read the whole book cover to cover with out wanting to go into it lets just say it is one of the lesser preached passages


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    #29
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Maximilian wrote: »
    It's kind of what I mean. Look, I really don't to get into the business of antagonizing people or belittling what they sincerely choose to believe but going from athiest to theist is to me - in my humble opinion - a little like knowing the truth about "a thing" and nevertheless choosing to believe the opposite. The only rational explanation for that I can think of is that such a person never actually knew/understood the 'truth' to begin with or for some other psychological reason, couldn't bring themselves to accept it.

    Anyway, I think this is the wrong forum and the wrong topic for such a discussion. I only posted here because I found the OP's question ridiculous. It's like asking what quote from the Origin of Species would convert a muslim.

    Are you claiming that this is a special case for atheism?

    Were ex-Christians who had lost their faith not really Christian at all?
    Include any other religion in the place of Christian and you'll see what I mean.


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    #30
    wolfsbane
    Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    TheColl wrote: »
    If you had to quote one Bible passage, one anecdote, or simply just make one statement to attempt to turn a "non-believer" into a "believer" or at least set them on that road.... what would it be?
    The power to convert does not come from the argument itself. The argument (the words used) is necessary, but it is the Spirit who prepares the heart to receive it. The Parable of the Soils is a good illustration. All the types of soil received the seed, but only that which was good bore fruit. That is, men in all moral conditions hear the word, but only those whose heart has been prepared by God will benefit from it.

    Any truth can be used by God to convict the sinner. But it is the gospel message that informs one of how to be saved, and it is the Spirit who uses that to bring repentance unto life.

    The gospel message comes in many forms, but all with the same truth: God has provided a Saviour for all who turn to Him in repentance and faith.

    One of my favourites is:
    Matthew 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.


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    #31
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Wicknight wrote: »

    It is the problem I guess when atheist is such a broad catch all term.

    What? An atheist is simply somebody who rejects the existence of the divine. Nothing more.


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