Canvassing query

yoshytoshy

Hi ,I'm wondering if it is hard to canvass for a paticular party ,or do they have select numbers?

I've never canvassed for anyone in my life ,but I might start looking into it now and be ready for when the elections come around.
If anything ,just to remind people of who not to vote for.

anymore

You walk up to a door , ring the bell and say your piece.
Joining the party of your choice is of course the more conventional route.

Annasopra

No, not difficult at all, you either join a party and tell them you want to canvass or contact the candidate and tell them you want to canvass (not necessarily joining)
All parties and candidates gladly use anyone offering to canvass
However you would be canvassing FOR someone NOT against

yoshytoshy

Johnnymcg wrote: »

No, not difficult at all, you either join a party and tell them you want to canvass or contact the candidate and tell them you want to canvass (not necessarily joining)
All parties and candidates gladly use anyone offering to canvass
However you would be canvassing FOR someone NOT against

So it should be as simple as an email to whomever I choose ,fair enough.

patmar

I have canvassed for FF since 1977 and its been an endless pleasure. Some canvassers said it was going to be a thankless job in the more recent Local Elections. I thoroughly enjoyed myself and faved the ABFF knowing well nearly half of them would not vote and knowing from 2007 election that 75% of them were anti FF anyway. looking forward more than ever to 2012 when the ABFF will have to come up with a bit more than slagging FF

orourkeda

patmar wrote: »

I have canvassed for FF since 1977 and its been an endless pleasure. Some canvassers said it was going to be a thankless job in the more recent Local Elections. I thoroughly enjoyed myself and faved the ABFF knowing well nearly half of them would not vote and knowing from 2007 election that 75% of them were anti FF anyway. looking forward more than ever to 2012 when the ABFF will have to come up with a bit more than slagging FF

you must be mad

Eliot Rosewater

patmar wrote: »

looking forward more than ever to 2012 when the ABFF will have to come up with a bit more than slagging FF

Don't worry patmar, I'll have a fully-researched typed document describing my many grievances with Fianna Fáil ready for the representative of your party that decides to call to my door.

If I'm feeling devilish I may ask them to account for each and every one of them. I don't intend on making it easy.

Laminations

Patmar you joined right around the time Tommy Bateman left us. Coincidence? I do hope you call round to me at election time. You'll get more abuse than you've had in the past 30yrs of your oh so pleasurable canvasing. Everything i cant say to you here due to charter rules will be said to your smiling face.

Annasopra

yoshytoshy wrote: »

So it should be as simple as an email to whomever I choose ,fair enough.

Well - maybe a phone call as well - also they might want to know that you are definitely committed to that candidate

Eliot Rosewater

Laminations wrote: »

You'll get more abuse than you've had in the past 30yrs of your oh so pleasurable canvasing

Bad tactic. Any canvasser put in such a situation will just walk away and dismiss you as undeserving of any serious attention.

Better to do what I'll do. Draw up a list of things that Fianna Fáil did to mess up the economy and the country, and ask the canvasser why those things were done. Make them account for the last few years of government. Then they'll pay attention. They can't really walk away if you don't raise your voice and they'll be forced to deal with the issues.

Laminations

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Bad tactic. Any canvasser put in such a situation will just walk away and dismiss you as undeserving of any serious attention.

Better to do what I'll do. Draw up a list of things that Fianna Fáil did to mess up the economy and the country, and ask the canvasser why those things were done. Make them account for the last few years of government. Then they'll pay attention. They can't really walk away if you don't raise your voice and they'll be forced to deal with the issues.

If they are anything like the politicians they support they will never deal with the issues. They'll trapes out the old reliables like 'worldwide recession', 'difficult decisions', 'no alternative' - a lot done, more to do. I'd prefer to abuse them hard and abuse them good. Someone needs to get an earful for this mess and i'll be happy once they walk away feeling psychologically damaged and knowing they have no chance in hell of getting my vote. They need to be shown the error of their ways

Liam Byrne

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Bad tactic. Any canvasser put in such a situation will just walk away and dismiss you as undeserving of any serious attention.

Better to do what I'll do. Draw up a list of things that Fianna Fáil did to mess up the economy and the country, and ask the canvasser why those things were done. Make them account for the last few years of government. Then they'll pay attention. They can't really walk away if you don't raise your voice and they'll be forced to deal with the issues.

Having shut the door on two FF canvassers and been given out to here for it, I tried this approach when 2 more arrived.

However when I started to ask about the many, many ways that FF have failed us, the canvasser (the candidate's dad, I think - the candidate himself wasn't there) turned and walked away on me mid-sentence.

They expect us to listen to them, but won't return the favour.

I don't yet know how I'l deal with the next set of deluded idiots that arrive on my doorstep, but I'm contemplating offering my services to Labour, FG and any independents in an effort to ensure that we are rid of the cancer of FF for years to come.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Better to do what I'll do. Draw up a list of things that Fianna Fáil did to mess up the economy and the country, and ask the canvasser why those things were done. Make them account for the last few years of government. Then they'll pay attention. They can't really walk away if you don't raise your voice and they'll be forced to deal with the issues.

Complete waste of everybody's (yours and theirs) time. Canvasers are going to weigh up the time wasted trying to convince you to vote FF (never going to happen, right?) versus knocking on another 10 doors in the same amount of time. Have a guess which one they will go for.

And it's not like the Canvaser can be held accountable in any case, s/he was not in government. Not that you'll fare much better with those who should be accountable - I've had Bertie on the door step a few times and all you'll get is hot air and a good disappearing act.

Sure let them know you're not happy, but the only way to hold these people accountable is with your vote.

oceanclub

orourkeda wrote: »

you must be mad

Having looked at his other posts, either a troll or FF really is reduced to those with bunker mentality.

P.

Dannyboy83

oceanclub wrote: »

Having looked at his other posts, either a or FF really is reduced to those with bunker mentality.

P.

He is actually more ABFF than anyone.
He is just posting like this to stir up more even more anger and hatred against them and it's working well.

We'll be grateful to him come election time, Irish people have short memories.
Having a person like himself performing this service will ensure more people will do the right thing and not vote FF.

patmar

First. I am no troll. Genuine FF

Secondly, a little story from Local Election canvass

On first night had to walk on grass to get to a door. Fabulous Camper Van in the driveway, 08 Reg plate and beautiful white colour, the size of a 20 container. Always wanted one of them myself
Knocked at door and man says, FF ruined my life ! Wanted to have a good laugh and remark on the fab Camper but was too polite. Need I say more

Canvassing for the ABFF will be childs play come the next election. However, I will be saying have heard all the FF slagging before and will have a basic list of questions to ask about how the next government are going to turn the country into a bed of roses. Thats when its fun canvassing because I am 100% certain the ABFF have absolutely nothing on offer

oceanclub

patmar wrote: »

On first night had to walk on grass to get to a door. Fabulous Camper Van in the driveway, 08 Reg plate and beautiful white colour, the size of a 20 container. Always wanted one of them myself
Knocked at door and man says, FF ruined my life ! Wanted to have a good laugh and remark on the fab Camper but was too polite. Need I say more

How can you tell from his car whether or not he's (a) just lost his job and/or (b) hundreds of thousands of pounds in negative equity? It appears you didn't even listen to his concerns. If you were canvassing on behalf of me, I'd be very concerned that your attitude was putting even more voters off.

Having said, by all means continue to canvass for FF! You're doing great work.

P.

ocokev

patmar wrote: »

On first night had to walk on grass to get to a door. Fabulous Camper Van in the driveway, 08 Reg plate and beautiful white colour, the size of a 20 container. Always wanted one of them myself
Knocked at door and man says, FF ruined my life ! Wanted to have a good laugh and remark on the fab Camper but was too polite. Need I say more

Maybe he and his wife lost their jobs and were in the process of loosing their house and this poor man had to move his family into the camper that was borrowed from someone so they could have a roof over their heads. Whould you have a good laugh at him then.

oceanclub

ocokev wrote: »

Maybe he and his wife lost their jobs and were in the process of loosing their house and this poor man had to move his family into the camper so they could have a roof over their heads. Whould you have a good laugh at him then.

There can't be many people with white 08 reg white camper vans in Palmerstown; would be gas if said person read this thread and found out what Fianna Fail think of him.

P.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I don't yet know how I'l deal with the next set of deluded idiots that arrive on my doorstep, but I'm contemplating offering my services to Labour, FG and any independents in an effort to ensure that we are rid of the cancer of FF for years to come.

I truly hope you do. . when we do get to canvass (and I will be canvassing for FF) believe me the public will be far more interested in listening to manifesto's and ideas than ABFF rhetoric (as they always are) . . you take your boards rhetoric onto the doorsteps and you will swing more people back to FF

patmar

oceanclub wrote: »

There can't be many people with white 08 reg white camper vans in Palmerstown; would be gas if said person read this thread and found out what Fianna Fail think of him.

P.

Very interesting, who mentioned Palmerstown ?

oceanclub

patmar wrote: »

Very interesting, who mentioned Palmerstown ?

I presume you're the same patmar on dublin.ie?

P.

Annasopra

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I don't yet know how I'l deal with the next set of deluded idiots that arrive on my doorstep, but I'm contemplating offering my services to Labour, FG and any independents in an effort to ensure that we are rid of the cancer of FF for years to come.

But that's not canvassing FOR someone, thats canvassing AGAINST, I don't think any party would accept that - You would have to be committed to 1 candidate or 1 party

yoshytoshy

I'm going to set out what I want from a new government and then set about seeing who is looking for the same things.
I may end up with the green party:eek: ,but I won't be following someone for the sake of it.

paddyland

I can't wait for the next election.

I hope hallelujajordan and patmar come canvassing to my door.

There'll be a bucket of filthy, stinking dishwater waiting.

Talk to them? Listen to them? Since when do Fianna Fáil ever listen to anybody?

I am reduced to doing that, because I have nothing else. Everything I spent twenty years working for is utterly gone. I cannot physically assault them, as I might go to jail, although if it were Ahern, or Dempsey, or Cowen, or Coughlan, it might be worth it.

Don't DARE tell me FF are the ones to fix the economy. I already HAD a life. I shouldn't need it fixed in the first place.

YOU want ME to bail out your dirty, snivelling friends in high places, the stupid, greedy f*cks who ruined this lovely country we had? YOU want ME to sink every penny in tax I will ever pay for the rest of my life into a zombie FF bank instead of the hospitals and schools and vital state infrastructure? You must be f*cking joking me.

Do you seriously expect me to stand at my door and listen to SH1TE?

patmar

oceanclub wrote: »

I presume you're the same patmar on dublin.ie?

P.

I suspected it was a mistake using the same name but as I do not engage in politics on dublinie I presumed I was safe. Ah well.........

Joey the lips

Canvassing is the easiest thing in the world. The rejection at the doors is the hardest. I am canvassing years. The easiest way is to contact your local TD for the party you wish to canvass for or if they dont have a TD contect a party representative....

The goldden rules of canvassing.

1. The Voters opinion is always right.
2. The voter might not agree with your canvas.
3. Be polite even if they dont agree with you.
4. Ask for there no 2 if they wont give you there no. 1
5. Ask them if they need a hand to get to the polling station( if they are elderly or disabled)
6. Close the gate on the way out of the garden. This actually looses votes if you dont.
7. Never jump across walls or bushes.
8. NEVER ring a door bell after 9. Waking up kids will p1ss parents off to no end.
9. Only start to walk away from the voter when they say good bye no thanks.
10. If you cannot answer there question say so. Tell them you will get the canidate to contact them and do. Ask for there phone number.
11. If they say they are not registered tell them there might be still time for them to apply to the supplamentry register.

Lastly Rejection and the disheartening respomse at doors is what kills convassers... Dont take it to heart..

patmar

When I knock at a door and get an Anti FF rant I ask immediately did they ever vote FF. Of course the answer is always no. If in the mood to listen I will ask what party they vote for and how they will be better than FF. Thats when I know there is nothing on offer from the ABFF. same thing happens on these message boards, they slag FF till they are blue in the face and when asked whats on offer they just repeat the boring slagging

Dannyboy83

patmar wrote: »

First. I am no troll. Genuine FF

Secondly, a little story from Local Election canvass

On first night had to walk on grass to get to a door. Fabulous Camper Van in the driveway, 08 Reg plate and beautiful white colour, the size of a 20 container. Always wanted one of them myself
Knocked at door and man says, FF ruined my life ! Wanted to have a good laugh and remark on the fab Camper but was too polite. Need I say more

Are you not content with your various luxurious villas abroad?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65142672&postcount=13

Why would you want a camper van to add to it?

Canvassing for the ABFF will be childs play come the next election. However, I will be saying have heard all the FF slagging before and will have a basic list of questions to ask about how the next government are going to turn the country into a bed of roses. Thats when its fun canvassing because I am 100% certain the ABFF have absolutely nothing on offer

So certain that you've never bothered to read the material offered to you, on numerous occasions.

http://www.faircare.ie
http://www.finegael.org/upload/NewERA.pdf

Read it and weep.

anymore

patmar wrote: »

First. I am no troll. Genuine FF

Secondly, a little story from Local Election canvass

On first night had to walk on grass to get to a door. Fabulous Camper Van in the driveway, 08 Reg plate and beautiful white colour, the size of a 20 container. Always wanted one of them myself
Knocked at door and man says, FF ruined my life ! Wanted to have a good laugh and remark on the fab Camper but was too polite. Need I say more

Canvassing for the ABFF will be childs play come the next election. However, I will be saying have heard all the FF slagging before and will have a basic list of questions to ask about how the next government are going to turn the country into a bed of roses. Thats when its fun canvassing because I am 100% certain the ABFF have absolutely nothing on offer

Rather a pity FF people werent asking twenty basic questions beofre the 07 GE, instead of promoting the Bertie Ahern propoganda.And no i didnt vote FF.

Laminations

Joey the lips wrote: »

Canvassing is the easiest thing in the world. The rejection at the doors is the hardest. I am canvassing years. The easiest way is to contact your local TD for the party you wish to canvass for or if they dont have a TD contect a party representative....

The goldden rules of canvassing.

1. The Voters opinion is always right.
2. The voter might not agree with your canvas.
3. Be polite even if they dont agree with you.
4. Ask for there no 2 if they wont give you there no. 1
5. Ask them if they need a hand to get to the polling station( if they are elderly or disabled)
6. Close the gate on the way out of the garden. This actually looses votes if you dont.
7. Never jump across walls or bushes.
8. NEVER ring a door bell after 9. Waking up kids will p1ss parents off to no end.
9. Only start to walk away from the voter when they say good bye no thanks.
10. If you cannot answer there question say so. Tell them you will get the canidate to contact them and do. Ask for there phone number.
11. If they say they are not registered tell them there might be still time for them to apply to the supplamentry register.

Lastly Rejection and the disheartening respomse at doors is what kills convassers... Dont take it to heart..

You can rewrite those rules to just one

Don't call at my door if you are canvassing for FF.

And if you are canvassing for FF, I wouldn't ask for a number 2! Thats courting trouble

And you'd better take my rejection to heart because I'll mean it. Once there are no forum charter rules in my way, all my insults will be personal, below the belt, aimed not only at the party and the candidate but at those blinkered enough to support them.

anymore

patmar wrote: »

When I knock at a door and get an Anti FF rant I ask immediately did they ever vote FF. Of course the answer is always no. If in the mood to listen I will ask what party they vote for and how they will be better than FF. Thats when I know there is nothing on offer from the ABFF. same thing happens on these message boards, they slag FF till they are blue in the face and when asked whats on offer they just repeat the boring slagging

Ask yourself how many FF politicians were invloved in the Mahon Tribunal and then ask how many politicians from all other politicians were invloved.
And then ask yourself what party is the natural home or ally of of Lowry, Cooper Flynn etc.

ocokev

paddyland wrote: »

I can't wait for the next election.

I hope hallelujajordan and patmar come canvassing to my door.

There'll be a bucket of filthy, stinking dishwater waiting.

Talk to them? Listen to them? Since when do Fianna Fáil ever listen to anybody?

I am reduced to doing that, because I have nothing else. Everything I spent twenty years working for is utterly gone. I cannot physically assault them, as I might go to jail, although if it were Ahern, or Dempsey, or Cowen, or Coughlan, it might be worth it.

Don't DARE tell me FF are the ones to fix the economy. I already HAD a life. I shouldn't need it fixed in the first place.

YOU want ME to bail out your dirty, snivelling friends in high places, the stupid, greedy f*cks who ruined this lovely country we had? YOU want ME to sink every penny in tax I will ever pay for the rest of my life into a zombie FF bank instead of the hospitals and schools and vital state infrastructure? You must be f*cking joking me.

Do you seriously expect me to stand at my door and listen to SH1TE?

The best and only people to get us out of this mess, which may I remind you is an international problem is in fact FF.
Sure, FF could have done better, but can you imagine the bigger mess if FF wasn't in power.
You give the job of getting this country up and running to anybody but FF and then we might as well forget it.
Remember, we as a small nation nearly owned all the prime real estate all over the world.
Now its your turn to own a part of this real estate and own a majority shareholding in our banks or to be a property tycoon.
This is the dream that everyone wanted during the progressive years and now it is our chance say "Yes I am a big banker", "yes I am a Property tycoon".
FF promised it was going to do something about property values escalating and now property is up to 40% less.
Throw your stinking dish water over the opposition and their non imput of suggestions to get us out of dthe downturn we are in.
They stood by in the Dail for years and didn't shout stop to any policies of FF.
Enda Kenny stood there like the pole in the middle of the Tent at the Galway Races just to brush shoulders and to look good for the cameras and has offered little.
We need stability going forward, we need to be modern in our approach and be proud of our acheivements, and not always looking at the negitives like the opposition do.
And I pray everynight that FF will remain in power, and I know personally, God wont let me down.

God bless this great nation.

This is the typical crap one way vision of the FF camp that they expect us to swallow.

paddyland

ocokev wrote: »

The best and only people to get us out of this mess, which may I remind you is an international problem is in fact FF.
Sure, FF could have done better, but can you imagine the bigger mess if FF wasn't in power.
You give the job of getting this country up and running to anybody but FF and then we might as well forget it.
Remember, we as a small nation nearly owned all the prime real estate all over the world.
Now its your turn to own a part of this real estate and own a majority shareholding in our banks or to be a property tycoon.
This is the dream that everyone wanted during the progressive years and now it is our chance say "Yes I am a big banker", "yes I am a Property tycoon".
FF promised it was going to do something about property values escalating and now property is up to 40% less.
Throw your stinking dish water over the opposition and their non imput of suggestions to get us out of dthe downturn we are in.
They stood by in the Dail for years and didn't shout stop to any policies of FF.
Enda Kenny stood there like the pole in the middle of the Tent at the Galway Races just to brush shoulders and to look good.
We need stability going forward, we need to be modern in our approach and be proud of our acheivements, and not always looking at the negitives like the opposition do.
And I pray everynight that FF will remain in power, and I know personally, God wont let me down.

God bless this great nation.

This country would have been a whole heap better if FF had invested the country's wealth at home in sustainable industry, hospitals, schools, and it's primary asset, the people of Ireland, instead of squandering it on get-rich-quick schemes and unsustainable waste.

It has gone beyond merely 'fixing the economy.' The only thing that can save this country now is the complete annihilation of the Fianna Fáil corruption that began under de Valera, engineering a political system that would ensure they remained in power regardless of their corrupt behaviour and self serving agendas.

When FF are no longer part of the equation, then 'fixing' the country might actually be a sustainable idea, rather than the next flash in the pan to be squandered and burnt like everything FF involve themselves in.

Fools who canvas for this disgusting, corrupt party are fully a part of the rot, and deserve everything coming to them.

Laminations

ocokev wrote: »

Sure, FF could have done better, but can you imagine the bigger mess if FF wasn't in power.

I'm not sure whether your post was a satirical example of what a FFer might write, but this is the problem - imagination vs. reality.
We are in a reality of FF f***ing up the country, we can imagine all we want of hypothetical situations in which the opposition was in power, and we can say they did worse or that they found the cure for cancer - we still need to wake up to FF being in power but not for much longer.

i71jskz5xu42pb

paddyland wrote: »

I can't wait for the next election.

I hope hallelujajordan and patmar come canvassing to my door.

There'll be a bucket of filthy, stinking dishwater waiting.

Talk to them? Listen to them? Since when do Fianna Fáil ever listen to anybody?

I am reduced to doing that, because I have nothing else. Everything I spent twenty years working for is utterly gone. I cannot physically assault them, as I might go to jail, although if it were Ahern, or Dempsey, or Cowen, or Coughlan, it might be worth it.

Don't DARE tell me FF are the ones to fix the economy. I already HAD a life. I shouldn't need it fixed in the first place.

YOU want ME to bail out your dirty, snivelling friends in high places, the stupid, greedy f*cks who ruined this lovely country we had? YOU want ME to sink every penny in tax I will ever pay for the rest of my life into a zombie FF bank instead of the hospitals and schools and vital state infrastructure? You must be f*cking joking me.

Do you seriously expect me to stand at my door and listen to SH1TE?

Maybe you'll give them your second preference?

ocokev

Laminations wrote: »

I'm not sure whether your post was a satirical example of what a FFer might write, but this is the problem - imagination vs. reality.

All apologies, left a very important bit out but have adjusted it at the end of thread.

Kiwi_knock

From my experience in my area at the last local elections quite a few of the opposition canvassers are relying on an anti FF sentiment to achieve votes. One particular canvasser, when he found out it was to be my first time voting, gave me a 5 minute talk on how FF have destroyed the country and that any further support given to them would only lead to us being in a deeper crisis. While the points he made were valid, I was surprised that not once did he mention the policies of the person he was campaigning for. It made me think twice about voting for this candidate. The opposition parties seem to think they can get in on anti FF sentiment alone. It leaves me in a difficult position with regards who to support in the next election. I do not want FF in power but neither do I want to see parties in power who have gained it by proclaiming that they are not FF.

Laminations

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

The opposition parties seem to think they can get in on anti FF sentiment alone.

This may have been your experience but it is not true.
Quite frankly I'm sick of this excuse being trottered out.

'The opposition have no policies'

http://www.finegael.org/upload/Policy_Doc.pdf

READ IT.

I'm NOT a FG member. I'm NOT a supporter of any party, I'll be voting on policy, form and facts in the next election, so FG will get my vote but I'll hold them to the same standards that I expected of FF, actually far higher standards because I never expected much from that shower of wasters.

Skrynesaver

ocokev wrote: »

All apologies, left a very important bit out but have adjusted it at the end of thread.

I find it curious that the blinkered small mindedness necessary to remain in the FF camp is such that parody becomes indistinguishable from the source.

Or to put it another way, they are down to the last few in the bunker

Kiwi_knock

I do think the opposition parties have policies but ask you average voter to name FG policies and I say the majority would struggle to name them. Most average voter base their votes on soundbites and the tidbits they get from the media. And I do believe that most of these messages at the moment seem to be drawing on the fact that the opposition parties will not pursue a FF path and lead us into further chaos. For me it seems the opposition will get into power due to the fact they are not FF.

oceanclub

In 1978, Fianna Fail set the world record for a deficit for an advanced nation - 17.6%.

In 2009, Fianna Fail presides over a decline that the IMF said was "the largest among advanced economies".

The economic and jobs gains made by the short-lived Rainbow Coalition of 1994-1997 - a coalition which introduced the low corporate tax rates which even now, lying PDs take credit for - have been wiped out by 13 years of gombeenism.

And the FFers here seriously suggest they are the best option?

P.

Liam Byrne

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I don't think any party would accept that - You would have to be committed to 1 candidate or 1 party

I agree - it's unlikely that any "party" would accept it.

All I'm committed to is ethics and fairness, accountability and competence, and I don't care which party delivers it.

Maybe I'll canvass for whomever first proves they can deliver those 4.

hallelujahjordan wrote: »

you take your boards rhetoric onto the doorsteps and you will swing more people back to FF

Therein lies the biggest problem with FF; any criticism or disagreement with them is dismissed as "rhetoric", and the fact that it's coming from one of the few FF supporters that I can actually tolerate a discussion with is all the more damning.

It's almost a variation on the scaremongering "but sure what would the other crowd do" - putting people off pointing out FF's track record and flaws in case someone might vote for FF....what do you want to achieve by this ? Ensure that no-one dares point out the disaster that FF have been, just in case ?

FF have been a disaster, and it needs to be said. Everyone needs to be reminded as often as possible to ensure that it does not happen a third time.

You've indicated that you want to change things about FF; then please do, and we might possibly consider your party in 20 years' time when it proves it has changed.......but if you truly want change, then please don't fall into their scaremongering and deflectionary tactics.

paddyland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You've indicated that you want to change things about FF; then please do, and we might possibly consider your party in 20 years' time when it proves it has changed...

+1 to considering them in 20 years time.

When Ahern and Cowen and their cohorts and legacy are dead and buried in a deep, unmarked pit somewhere...

Liam Byrne

paddyland wrote: »

+1 to considering them in 20 years time.

Stop misrepresenting me and ruining my reputation ! I clearly said might possibly...... !!!

They've a LONG way to go (including a major epiphany) before I'd actually consider them!

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Therein lies the biggest problem with FF; any criticism or disagreement with them is dismissed as "rhetoric", and the fact that it's coming from one of the few FF supporters that I can actually tolerate a discussion with is all the more damning.

It's almost a variation on the scaremongering "but sure what would the other crowd do" - putting people off pointing out FF's track record and flaws in case someone might vote for FF....what do you want to achieve by this ? Ensure that no-one dares point out the disaster that FF have been, just in case ?

Perhaps I should have been clearer . . I'm not dismissing your criticisms as rhetoric . . you are entitled to criticise as much as I am entitled to defend and I welcome open enthusiastic debate. But your criticisms (and that of others on here) often turn to aggression and abuse (e.g. your signature, and several posts from others within this thread) and this I dismiss as rhetoric. . Come 2012 when we are out on the doorsteps, the more FG campaigners resort to this rhetoric the better in my view because honestly, all it will do is push people back towards FF and make my job a smidgeon easier.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

FF have been a disaster, and it needs to be said. Everyone needs to be reminded as often as possible to ensure that it does not happen a third time.

That, I think is where you are wrong . . and it is the rock that FG will perish on. The public will become jaded of the ABFF mentality. And remember in 2012 we will be judged on how we managed the crisis, not on why it was created.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You've indicated that you want to change things about FF; then please do, and we might possibly consider your party in 20 years' time when it proves it has changed.......but if you truly want change, then please don't fall into their scaremongering and deflectionary tactics.

I welcome your eventual #1 vote

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

But your criticisms (and that of others on here) often turn to aggression and abuse (e.g. your signature, and several posts from others within this thread) and this I dismiss as rhetoric

Well y'see, that's where you're going wrong, IMHO.

The reason my signature is "abusive" is because of the way that FF have treated me and this country.

I don't regard that as abuse; I view it as fair comment and a considered opinion. I see no problem with judging people or organisations based on their track record.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

That, I think is where you are wrong . . and it is the rock that FG will perish on. The public will become jaded of the ABFF mentality. And remember in 2012 we will be judged on how we managed the crisis, not on why it was created.

Unfortunately you do - partially - have a point; I almost stopped visiting and commenting on these boards because I was sickened so much by the scandals and bailout policies......I was getting depressed even thinking about it, with scandal after scandal after scandal drip-fed so that the above philosophy is achieved.

But believe me, no matter what happens in relation to "the crisis", some of us will not forget who led us headlong into it, and who washed their hands of it by mentioning "Lehman Bros" and "global downturn" at every opportunity, and who voted confidence in corrupt con-men like Ahern and O'Dea.

And - sad as I am to say it because I love my country - if enough fellow countrymen vote FF in again in 2012 I will be heading off in disgust and despair never to return.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I welcome your eventual #1 vote

Like I said, you can possibly work hard enough to earn it. But - courtesy of the actions of those leading your party for the last 30 years - you've got a mountain to climb.

Reform that party and get it to recognise wrong-doing and impose accountability, though, and I'll give you this.....you'll deserve a vote for that alone!

ninty9er

Anyone who wants to follow through on the threat of physical violence or hateful vitriol can expect that the Gardaí will be at their door not long after the canvasser has left making an arrest. It's good publicity packaged for a candidate if (s)he or a canvasser is attacked.

Remember John Prescott?

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And - sad as I am to say it because I love my country - if enough fellow countrymen vote FF in again in 2012 I will be heading off in disgust and despair never to return.

With an attitude like that it's only a pity I don't believe the statement.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

With an attitude like that it's only a pity I don't believe the statement.

:rolleyes: An attitude like what, exactly ?

Recognition that it will be a rinse-and-repeat, and that Ireland will never be a place where you can make a living and get by without being screwed over and watching con-men (be they politicians, bankers or clergymen) get off scot-free ?

What is it that you find so objectionable that I want nothing to do with a country like that ?

Scofflaw

Keep it polite, please, particularly ninty9er. And bogs, if you can't post something worth reading, don't bother to post.

moderately,
Scofflaw